Messages

271

Beginner's Help and Guides / Re: Shield Questions about Axe Damage

« on: March 22, 2011, 02:16:50 am »

Thank you all for the responses.

cmpxchg8b, thanks to you for the detailed answer.

I am still unclear as to whether "works as normal" means it deals double damage after it exceeds the armor or before, though. The only other example of bonus damage doesn't apply until after the armor is exceeded; however, the way you word it makes me think you mean the opposite.

From what I understand it means 200% damage (100% bonus as if you got it from speed). Not sure if it adds or multiplies to the other % bonuses. I guess the latter which means much more damage. It also means that pierce damage will go through the shield armor better. The morningstar is a mean shield mincer even though the raw damage on it is lower than the 2H axes (but it's pierce vs. cut).

272

General Discussion / Re: Repair Costs

« on: March 21, 2011, 05:27:08 pm »

Repair costs is fine. You can easily run with 15k-20k worth of body armor alone, especially if you do not carry the most expensive weapons and several of them. You'd be surprised how effective are some weapons below 3000 g worth. And dont carry a bloody xbow unless you are a real xbowman - if you do and the costs are bankrupting you, you have no right to complain.

273

Beginner's Help and Guides / Re: Need some advice (maybe impossible atm)

« on: March 16, 2011, 03:01:37 pm »

sigh... another hybrid incoming.

You want to be a ninja? be a ninja. Forget about bows and xbows and throw shurikans with minimal PT - they are meant to annoy and disturb only and can still hurt people in pajamas.

274

Beginner's Help and Guides / Re: Advice on 1h weapons

« on: March 16, 2011, 12:03:19 pm »

I was playing the other day with 100wpf 1h and I picked a masterwork side sword. It was ridiculous. If you are planning multi heirlooms then that truly is the best weapon IMO

Just don't cry to hard when it gets hit by the nerf bat.
I would use a triple heirloomed nerf bat if I could. Awesome weapon.

275

General Discussion / Re: Fix the ladder system!

« on: March 16, 2011, 11:59:08 am »

Nay! make people have brains instead! brains!

276

General Discussion / Re: Crossbows and the Return of FPS

« on: March 15, 2011, 05:54:38 pm »

If you guys want to talk realism, I think ranged has been nerfed too much, especially bows. If you've seen Shakespeare's Henry V, you'd have heard of Agincourt. 7000 archers and 1500 men-at-arms (8500 total) beat a French army numbering from 10,000-36,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt

Did you even read what is written there? The arrows did little actual damage to the French army and the archers ended up killing French knights in melee. The longbow has long passed from the realm of history into the realm of fantasy. It now rests there on a pedestal next to the katana.

277

General Discussion / Re: Hybrids need nerf?

« on: March 15, 2011, 11:29:56 am »

Yea 14 000+ gold of upkeep (heavy xbow+ steel bolt) is absolutely no reason,  especially when you total budget must not exceed 35 000 gold to break even.
That's why absolutely nobody complain about upkeep.
Not to mention the 25 wpf lost in melee to get 100wpf in xbow.

No reason at all...

Only most people who carry xbow as a secondary will take one of the lighter xbows for a couple of thousand $ and they will not invest anywhere near 100 wpf in it.

They Xbow and thrower hybrids that I am talking about are very light hybrids because both xbow and throw do not require much wpf to be useful. Xbow damage is just how much money you are willing to invest and throwing damage will come with a moderate investment in PT (no need for 10 there to do serious damage). Accuracy is not required if you are shooting from close range or blindly into a crowd.

278

General Discussion / Re: Hybrids need nerf?

« on: March 15, 2011, 09:53:27 am »

wpf was nerfed for a reason - getting it up to 200 is a bad idea.

The only issue is with the effectiveness that every Joe can get with a secondary xbow/throwing. There is absolutely no reason NOT to carry an exbow unless you want to collect more gold. There has to be a negative side to them so a pure melee character will not want to carry an xbow and hybridization will be difficult (mind you hybridization in melee skills, 1H/2H/pole is not a problem).

* Put -2 PS, -1 riding and -1 athletics on a crossbow (can be done) and nobody will carry it unless it is his main weapon. Dedicated xbowmen can still drop it to the ground and loose the penalties if they want to switch to full melee (I doubt many will bother to drop and collect it many times in a frame)
* Make ALL throwing weapons above rocks require lots of PT. A realy thrower has no problem to go over 4-5 PT. For the others investing 5 PT just to throw a dart is a bit too much.

279

General Discussion / Re: Crossbows and the Return of FPS

« on: March 15, 2011, 12:39:10 am »

Main problem is: accepting the ranged playstyle as *equal* is just unacceptable to many. That's the real problem here - anything else is merely a matter of game balance.

There are no complaints about any of the raged styles (from me and most of the posters here anyway) when it comes to dedicated roles - the complaints are about hybrids the inflate the number of projectiles in the air and surprisingly, are not ineffective. Xbows are by far the greatest offenders because they are carried loaded and are used to shoot into melee from short range or as a shotgun in urban warfare style.

280

Spam / Re: Itemized Heirloom Thread (Completed)

« on: March 15, 2011, 12:03:28 am »

Is it possible to also post the stats of the alt mode on weapons that have it (grosses messer, fighting axe, the 2H swords etc.)?

281

General Discussion / Re: Crossbows and the Return of FPS

« on: March 14, 2011, 02:26:00 pm »

You made me go check EU1 now.

I did not see any problem you describe. I saw a LOT more archers than crossbowmen (as usual). And I saw a LOT of non hybrids, or at least people who in this game did not take any ranged weapon.

In short, you charge into battle at round start without a shield and to you it seems like everyone and their dog is having a ranged weapon. Make analysis of the weapons used by people on a server, and then we can discuss this further.

(not directed at me but I support Elmetiacos view)
The problem exponentially increase with total number of players in the server (the absolute number of projectiles flying). I usually play one one of the servers with ~50 people, where the battles are much more interesting and the problem is not as severe. I do exactly as you describe - I wait till much of the ranged ammo is expended (boring), flank (assuming I survive the cavs buzzing about) and carry a shield. Then I play urban warfare: walk with me back to the walls, jump from cover to cover, peak around a corner and rush out of the other side - real fun... <sarcasm for those who did not get it>

No one is saying that the situation is unmanageable, just that it is not as fun as it could be. It's not like we complain about otther people "style". I bet my dinner that they the vast majority of casual xbow users just go the path of least resistance (Still waiting to see the guy in Samurai armor, huscarl shield, scimitar and xbow setup. Saw some who got close). I am also tempted to carry an xbow just to have something to do during those first two minutes, that I now just waste idling. With lots of showers and therapy I will be able to overcome the self loathing.

282

General Discussion / Re: Crossbows and the Return of FPS

« on: March 14, 2011, 09:56:58 am »

The problematic hybrids are melee/ranged - mainly xbow & throwing as the secondary. Hybrids of 1H/2H/pole do not cause any problems and are even welcomed. Dedicated xbow/archer/throwers are not a problem.

What happens is that there is absolutely no reason not to carry an xbow. Even with poor accuracy of low wpf, you get a chance at some cheap kills at little risk - so why not? The thing is that it is bad bad BAD to gameplay. Beyond a critical mass of ranges weapons, the game turns into a FPS. I played on EU1 the other day and was appalled. In every frame I sent the first two minutes idling till the throwers have spent most of their ammo and the xbow hybrid my old friends took their cheap shots and came down from the roofs to fight.

Perhaps the only solution is to make two classes (YEH YOU HEAR IT RIGHT!): ranged & melee.
* If you choose melee you cannot put points into archery/xbows AT ALL and the cost of power throw is doubled (1 PT for two skill points invested).
* if you choose ranged the cost of power-strike and shield skills are doubled

The melee/throwing hybrids this allows are either a melee toon with some basic throwing ability, or a true hybrid for a very skill point demanding build that will hurt elsewhere.
The melee/xbow hybrids this allows will have basic shield usage (arrow cover) and cannot be block crushers. They can be true melee hybrids for a very high skill point cost that will hurt elsewhere.

The "what the heck, I'll grab an xbow as well" attitude must be stopped.

283

General Discussion / Re: An opinion concerning the discussion of "ra(n)gefest" - But in another direction

« on: March 11, 2011, 09:51:28 am »

The fact that an archer can pull out a big-f-sword and proceed to whoops ass is not a big problem (from my view as an infantry). I WANT them to be able to fight instead of facing only runners. Bows in general are not problematic anymore - it is all about thrown and xbows.

The problem is the melee-focused guys who have no reason NOT to carry a thrown or an xbow. These should be some cost  to make this "what the heck, I'll carry an xbow" attitude unattractive. One is cost on the lightest xbows. I imagine that a dedicated xbowman will go for the heavier xbows and it seems that the "two free slots to fill" types carry the light ones. Raising the cost of the low tier ones may make this a little less appealing.

The other option is to add penalties to xbows that will really hurt an infantry - at least psychologically. It is possible (see Brytenwalda mod) to have skill penalties attached to equipment. An xbow is a cumbersome thing to carry on your back while swordplaying. I bet that if it carried even -1 penalty to PS, many will skip it. I would put this at -2 PS. Make sure to advertise this penalty well for the full psychological effect. The point being: a dedicated xbowman will be much less effected by this: he is dedicated to shooting the bow from distance, not carrying it for the highland charge (one shot, then charge). Xbow user than wishes to go into full melee can "g" drop the xbow and the penalty goes away (in Brytenwalda). I will not mind "two slot fillers" starting the frame with the xbow, then dropping it and going full melee - they will most likely not go back to pick it up and the shoot-melee-shoot-melee will go away.

In theory a similar thing can be done with throwing weapons for the "lets have something to throw from 3 meters" crowd, but I do not think it fits that case (unlike the xbow case, it will hurt the dedicated throwers). Dedicated throwers go insanely high PT anyway, therefore I think that the PT entry point to any decent throwing weapons should be 4 PT and the really good ones above 6. If you are a melee guy that just want to throw something for the lols, there are plenty of stones around with 0 PT requirement.

284

General Discussion / Re: Too much damage overall?

« on: March 10, 2011, 02:45:09 pm »

Yes I agree that there is too much damage. I played Brytanwalda extensively and the reduced damage there significantly contribute to the game play and even change the whole fighting style. I do not suggest to lower it that much, but a good lowering of damage can improve gameplay and lower effectiveness of spamming. However, the preferred solution is not among the options in the poll!

The easiest way to change effective damage is to tweak the soak/reduction values in the module.ini file. This can increase armor across the board with tweaking of only 6 numbers instead of going item by item. It is a huge advantage as a practical solution because it keeps the relative item stats and VERY quick and easy to test - leading to quick optimization during testing (vs. editing all items in each testing iteration...).

However, increasing soak/reduce factors make strong armors even stronger and has little effect on light armors, so everything up to mail will still get one shotted and plates become titanium armor. The effectiveness of armor increase non linear: the difference between 50 and 55 is much greater than between 30 and 35.  If soak/reduce values are to be increased, top armors need a small armor value reduction - note that this is not a nerf because each armor point becomes much more valuable.

The best solution: Reduction of weapon damage stats.
Some swords do well over 40 in damage and PLAENTY of 1H weapons do above 30. After some heirlooming 2H swords reach the 47-48 cut - high damage benefit even more from PS and the damage becomes INSANE. Damage stats on items need to come down 15-20% across the board This will lower 2H swords from 40ish to 32ish and 1H swords from 30ish to 24ish. It use percentage instead of flat number because all bonuses (PS, speed) are % based.
It has several advantages over messing around with armor values and factors:
1. It makes medium armors more meaningful, makes plate stronger but not impenetrable.
2. It makes PS felt more - with current damage you one-shot almost anything or two-shot at most with PS5 or PS10 with the heavy weapons.
3. It makes Heirlooms more significant without overpowering them - 2 more damage on a 32 cut sword is much more significant than 2 more on a 40cut sword.

After the damage reduction, the final touch can be done by the tweaking of armor soak/reduce in the module.ini