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Suggestions Corner / Archery and some other stuff.

« on: January 22, 2012, 04:55:13 am »

First off I have no skills myself in programming and such so I have no idea how much work these suggestions would render or if its even possible.

Second the things I want to achieve with these suggestions is more teamplay, skillbased gameplay, balance, adversity and the feeling of realism without turning into a simulator.


Since last patch there's been alot of talk about ranged. For archers it was a sort of nerfbuff. Overall it has not been that much harder playing archer but I feel that gameplay, balance, adversity and realism is hurting from the last patch.

I suggest PD should determine how long you can keep your bow drawn without loosing aim. For example pd 1=0.5s, pd2=1s etc. It should not increase damage. Instead make all bows do more base damage.

STR should determine which bows you can actually use. For example Horn bow str 15, Longbow str 18 etc.

WPF should determine your aim and draw speed but light bows should be faster to draw.

HA should negate the mounted penalty both in damage and accuracy (like today) but the reticule should behave different. When aiming from horseback it should behave like it does today with the difference of staying small for the duration of your PD then become bigger and bigger. At the same time it should "bounce" from small to large. The faster the horse move the bigger effect. This effect should be less for each point in HA. Also the accuracy should be buffed like Merc_Cris suggested in his thread.

Damage: I think a small overall buff is needed. 

The bows should be split in two categories with different purpose.

Category 1, light bows.
Short bow->Horn bow.
Pros: Can be drawn for a longer period of time (bonus to PD), accurate, fast draw speed.
Cons: Cant use heavy piercing arrows (bodkins), loosing damage fast over range, more susceptible to weather, ineffective against heavy armor (even headshots and no stun either).
Purpose: Kill lightly armored opponents and unarmored horses from short to medium distance.
Users: Hybrids/skirmishers, HAs.

Category 2, heavy bows.
Yumi?->Longbow.
Pros: Can use heavy piercing arrows (bodkins), lose less damage over range, effective against armor.
Cons: Can only be drawn for a shorter period of time, inaccurate, slow draw speed.
Purpose: Kill medium to heavy opponents and armored horses from short to long distance.
Users: Dedicated archers.


This is how I think these changes will affect my goals. (Warning lots of text.)

(click to show/hide)

Skilled gameplay: The light bows will only be usable if you're close to the target (yes they are accurate at long range also but with poor damage). If you're close to the target you will be more exposed and therefor must be more aware. When you are close to the opponent you need to be good at instinctive shooting. The low damage of the light arrows will force you to aim for weakspots (head). The Heavy bows will be harder to aim with as they are less accurate and can stay drawn for a shorter period without trembling. For HAs the bouncing reticule would make it harder as you would have to time your shots.

Balance: Archery should be as viable as any other class. However in this game combat gets exponentially effective with teamplay. Ranged teamplay is by nature easier than melee as there is less chance of teamhits when you focusing on the same target. For the sake of balance ranged should do less overall damage then melee. If compared to current system the heavy bows should be like pre patch in damage and accuracy and the light bows should be like they are now in damage maybe a bit more (revert headshot damage though) and with much more accuracy.

Adversity: The more subclasses the better. With these changes I think we'll get three types of archers. The dedicated long range archer, the medium range skirmisher and the close range hybrid. All three sub-classes will come in two flavors, the accurate light hitting one and the inaccurate heavy hitting one. The battles are so boring now. Alot of cav and 2h/pole zerging. Without archers its not the same.

Realism: In general the draw-weight of a bow determines its power. The power is used to propel the arrows. More power means being able to fire heavier arrows faster but there is a sort of diminishing return. When the stored energy from a drawn bow is released all will not transfer into the arrow. The arrow needs to accelerate and it cant go from 0->V0 in an instant. The transfer is faster than the acceleration so excess energy becomes heat. Heavier arrows are more affected and therefor needs even more draw-weight.

A lighter arrow will need less power to be propelled to flight speed. Less power means weaker bow which makes it easier to be held drawn without trembling.

A light arrowshaft is made out of flexible material. The flexible material makes the arrow oscillate during flight which combined with rotation makes it more accurate but it will also shift its balance-point resulting in more random damage effects such as shafts breaking, arrows deflecting, being front heavy and do way less damage or being balanced/back heavy for more damage. A piercing arrow like the bodkin has to be thicker so it does not shatter on impact making it much heavier and more stiff. A stiff arrow dont have as stable flightpath as it oscillate far less. However the balance-point is in the middle or even further back of the shaft which will give it more damage. Energy is stored evenly in the whole arrow but most of the energy behind the balance-point is not transferred on impact.

Damage from projectiles is gained from weight and speed. Light high speed projectiles loose their potential faster than heavy low speed projectiles due to higher loss of speed. A bow, mundane or modern, can not accelerate an arrow to the point where speed is more important than weight over the entire flight. Lighter arrows will accelerate faster and will therefor get a high initial flight speed (V0) which will make it accurate and able to do damage. A lighter arrow will also decelerate faster due to drag which will make it do much less damage at long distances.

An arrow no matter the speed or weight is susceptible to outside forces (all projectiles that are fin-stabilized wants to turn away from/into the wind) which means it can loose accuracy at long range. The oscillation+rotation helps to counter this and as light arrows tend to be more flexible they are also more accurate.

Only arrows made for piercing can punch through heavier armor. If you use a helmet you should have as good protection of the head as plate would give you on the rest of your body. (Not going to argue about the bodkins, plate and pseudo-sience from some "history" tv-show so dont bother.)

Feedback/suggestions are welcome.