cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Banefull on July 08, 2011, 09:37:35 am

Title: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Banefull on July 08, 2011, 09:37:35 am
Hello everyone,

I decided that I would try my hand at scene editing. The goal of my design was to create a siege map that was "cav-friendly."

Here is what I came up with:

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Note* This screen is outdated. There is a 3rd ramp in the middle coming to the flag with a winch opened gate.

Basically its a Motte and Bailey Castle with a stone keep. There are two possible routes of attack. The attackers must destroy a weak outer door followed by a tough inner door. The flag rests on a raised platform with a ramp leading to it with a gate that must be opened with a winch (not visible in the above screeny). Overall the area is very open and all ramps are easily cav accessible.

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Here is the dl link: http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3027 (http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3027)

Please do tell me if anything is wrong with the file as this is my first time with scene editing. Your comments and criticisms are appreciated.
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 08, 2011, 10:31:02 am
Looks very good for a first map! A cav friendly siege could be an interesting change.

Some constructive criticism;
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Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Banefull on July 08, 2011, 10:39:36 am
Quote from: Peasant_Woman on July 08, 2011, 10:31:02 am
Can the flag be raised from the base of the stone tower? It looks close enough to the ground that it may be possible which isn't what I think you intended, might want to test that just in case.

If you don't mind, can you post a screenshot showing me this? From my tests, it wasn't cappable from the ground around it.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and touch up on those few details.
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 08, 2011, 11:57:52 am
Quote from: Banefull on July 08, 2011, 10:39:36 am
If you don't mind, can you post a screenshot showing me this? From my tests, it wasn't cappable from the ground around it.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and touch up on those few details.

Here is where I mean, forgive me if you've already checked there.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Camaris on July 08, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
Ok it looks good. For balance i see two problems perhaps you already have thaught about them but thats what i see for this map.

You made the cavattackways the main-attack ways right?
Is this map still balanced if there are many cavplayers on one team?
How long have foot soldiers to run to flag?

We have to play the map but general i would suggest to have one infantry attack-way that is shorter and one cav-attack way that is longer.

Another point is the use of ladders. How fast can you be at the flag with ladders?
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Banefull on July 08, 2011, 09:32:28 pm
Quote from: Peasant_Woman on July 08, 2011, 11:57:52 am
Here is where I mean, forgive me if you've already checked there.

I did a double check of that area. It cannot be capped from those points on the ground. I think the perspective of the screenshot betrays the actual height of the wall itself.

Quote from: Camaris on July 08, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
Ok it looks good. For balance i see two problems perhaps you already have thaught about them but thats what i see for this map.

You made the cavattackways the main-attack ways right?

The two ramps are the main attack-ways. You go up one of the two ramps, bust down the door, and either just cap the flag or open a winch to a small walkway down the middle.

Quote from: Camaris on July 08, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
Is this map still balanced if there are many cavplayers on one team?

Well the ramps are the natural choke-points. Even though cav can run up them at full speed, a single pikemen could block a cav going up the ramp. Most of the calvary action would happen in the small open area below the keep. Attackers might have a few problems if there were a lot of defender cav but if they get a good foothold on the ramps they should be fine (note: there are no defender spawns on the ramps themselves). The keep itself is a bit small for cav but a plated charger would do ok inside.

Quote from: Camaris on July 08, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
How long have foot soldiers to run to flag?

I tested the time it took (assuming all gates are down):
Infantry took between 50 to 60 sec to reach the flag
Calvary took between 25 to 35 sec to reach the flag
Using the middle ramp, infantry took between 40 to 45 sec.

I did a test on Turin Castle to compare the times. Going up the ladder and walking down to the flag, it took me a comparable 50 to 60 sec to reach the flag using the same char.

Quote from: Camaris on July 08, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
We have to play the map but general i would suggest to have one infantry attack-way that is shorter and one cav-attack way that is longer.

Here is a screenshot of the winch gate that I referred to (not visible in the above screenies). Maybe this happens to be what you were suggesting.

(click to show/hide)

Its basically a long set of stairs. Calvary can go up those stairs but not at full speed. Cav are better off using the side ramps. Infantry on the other hand get a 5 to 10 sec reduction in walk times.

Quote from: Camaris on July 08, 2011, 12:25:01 pm
Another point is the use of ladders. How fast can you be at the flag with ladders?

Well, ladders do not actually reduce travel times themselves. They can, however, allow you to skip the inner and outer gates and open them from behind (both are sally doors). If you put a ladder across the center of the river and over the wall and used the middle stairs, I think you could cut out 3 to 4 sec of walking.

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I can't say for sure how it will turn out as I do not have any prior experience. As of now I am a bit worried that attackers might have a slight uphill battle but I have plans to adjust things if that turns out to be the case.
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: zagibu on July 08, 2011, 11:03:43 pm
I think def will have no chance. But we'll see, it's usual to have to adjust a map after release. It looks very good for a first attempt, btw.
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Banefull on July 17, 2011, 06:34:38 pm
Quote from: zagibu on July 08, 2011, 11:03:43 pm
I think def will have no chance. But we'll see, it's usual to have to adjust a map after release. It looks very good for a first attempt, btw.

It turned out to be the exact opposite. Attackers hardly stand much of a chance but the thing is, I can't figure out why. The walking distance is the same length as most other castles and one would thing that a very open castle would favor attackers.

My biggest suspicion as to why it is so, is because the attackers are split in half. The spawn points are split between both entrances so its hard to get everyone on a single ramp. If you spawn on the right side of the river but want to get the left ramp, its one long walk. I have observed the inner doors being broke but never enough people making it through. Additionally, attackers seem to want to clear out everyone out of the village first rather than just rushing the ramps. They go up the hill instead and get pummeled there.
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: zagibu on July 17, 2011, 09:39:03 pm
We need statistics per map, like how many ranged kills, how many kills per second etc. Could help in determining what's wrong with a certain map.

I haven't played on this yet...where is it up?
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Banefull on July 19, 2011, 10:03:15 am
Okay, here is my attempt to fix the balance issues:

First off, I moved all of the attacker spawns closer. If you look at this image:

(click to show/hide)

You can see that all of the spawn points have been placed right next to the river and in some cases, across the river. Previously, a good portion of attacker spawn points were close to the trebuchets. The new spawn points cut down travel times by 5 to 10 seconds which makes a huge difference over the course of seven minutes.

Inside that screenshot, you can see a new makeshift ramp in the center of the river. A siege ramp can be pushed across the ramp and deployed by the outside wall.

Defender spawn points have also been adjusted. A few have been moved back so hopefully, attackers will get mobbed a bit less in the courtyard.

Finally, I added a backdoor spanning the outside and inside wall.

(click to show/hide)

Although it is quite a long walking distance, it does lead directly to the flag.

------------------------------------------

Hopefully this will fix the problems.
Title: Re: First Attempt At Scene Editing
Post by: Camaris on July 19, 2011, 02:44:12 pm
As a hint in my opinion on big maps not only the spawn of the attackers decides if its balanced also the spawn of the defenders is relevant.
If defenders spawn to close on flag it will get very difficult.
If lots of defender have to run some distance to get to flag it gets more balanced.
I dont know but perhaps your defender-spawns are not spread out enough.