cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Digglez on July 02, 2011, 11:59:44 pm
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Cav can be an incredible powerful tool when used with a team, they are not just lolracecar lances in the back. Good cav working along side infantry can be a force to be reckoned with. Its really ashame that more players dont do 1h from horseback, its a very rewarding feeling especially on those multikill passes that a lance just cant do.
I plan to add to this post later, as the thoughts trickle in.
These are general rules of thumb and guidelines that if followed will improve your role as cav. There are of course exceptions to these rules under certain curcumstances, but following these will help you become a cav master.
DIGGLES RULES OF 1H CAV
1. Never leave your team. Stay near your infantry and protect them and yourself.
If you happen to get dehorsed after charging an enemy spawn, good luck living. Meanwhile, if you stay near your team's infantry, they can quickly surround and protect you if you are downed.
2. Never frontal charge enemies that are aware of your presence and expecting you.
Ie...the spearman crouching with his weapon ready to stab. Spears, pikes and 2h swords are the most dangerous opponents to you, be wary of them. Expect them to loljumpslash or 360 spin stab you.
3. Avoid engaging enemy cav
Since you are at a reach disadvantage, do not engage lancer cavalry. Waste their time maneuvering, the more time they waste chasing you the less time they spend attacking your teammates. Since you SHOULD be close to your infantry, wait for the enemy cav to make a mistake and go in for the kill. Or better yet, bait them into your teammates pikes!
4. Never charge directly at an enemy that is near a wall.
I would say something flatter than a 45° is safe. Its too risky and if you happen to miss and slam into the wall and rear, you're toast.
5. Never underestimate your role as a distraction.
Many an enemy infantry I've seen blunder right into my waiting teammates because I stayed on their flank with weapon cocked and the enemy was too fixated on me.
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reserved for future use.
If you have advice you'd like to add, either being 1h cav or the receiving end, post!
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Get a long 1h that allows you to hit something with overhead swings right in front of your horse. This is extremely handy against HA and lancers.
Always look beyond your target. And I really put the stress on this. You are not an invincible juggernaut of destruction so you always have to be sure there aren't any enemies ready to hit you after you killed the first guy on your trajectory.
Another useful advice is to never come close to archers without hiding behind buildings (or anything that doesn't reveal your presence) if they are not otherwise engaged. You can safely come very close to aware infantry (you have to stay out of reach ofc.) though.
Here is my target ranking :
1° running archers (or sometimes inf). Your inf follows them so they are engaged and hopefully can't shoot at you. You can either bump or kill the archer, anything works. This is particularly team-friendly as you stop some of your infantry teammates from being useless and spreading out. Never forget that without infantry, you are cannon-fodder.
3° unaware pikemen. It is sometimes tricky to tell apart people that intentionnally turn their back on you or are simply distracted. Anyway, when you have the opportunity to kill a pikeman, do it. Most pikemen are weak when they are helping their first line infantry teammates against your infantry. They will generally place themselves a little behind the battle line. As the pike is a very effective weapon in mass infantry fights, many pikemen tend to do this even if all the enemy cav isn't dead.
3° people attacking your archers. Easier, more useful and team-friendlier than the next category. Even better if your archer is running.
4° enemies occupied in little fights. Typically, if you see a 2v2 fight, it is a very good move to kill one of the enemies. Beware, this is sometimes hard as some people tend to facehug and turn around enemies. If you see someone (either ally or enemy or both) doing this, don't bother helping and look for something else to do. Also, be extremely cautious with 2h and polearm users. If they spot you trying to approach, they will likely try to land a hit on you when you will get close.
5° random unaware people. Generally, new players lack the awareness to spot you soon enough. This holds true for inf as well as archers, but is easier for archers as their movements are much more predictable.
The next ones are really last resort choices and much more risky.
6° aware 1h. I doubt a good 1h will ever let a 1h cav kill him up front, but the overall skill makes this 50% safe. Place your horse as far as possible from the target.
7° aware lance cav. Very hard, but possible. At least you can make them loose some time. I don't know many secrets about this and I doubt there are many.
8° aware 2h/polearms/archers/xbow/throwers. Just don't do that.
Also, it is clear that you have to mix this with the "whatever comes up first" rule. If you see an archer being chased, go help him, even if there is an unaware pikeman somewhere else. It is often better to switch target even if you fail your first attack. Once the enemy is aware of your presence, your chances are greatly reduced. You can even try to hit-and-run as many different unaware enemies as possible.
Finally, never underestimate a good o'll bump. It is often safer to simply bump the enemy and let your allies finish the job.
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Get a long 1h that allows you to hit something with overhead swings right in front of your horse. This is extremely handy against HA and lancers.
I've found the overhead useful for when archers try to run circles around my horse. instead of getting to the side of them, just run them over and overhead at the same time. they cant take bump+hit
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If there is a one thing i learned playing 1h cav, then that is
never never never never never ever never ever never never ever charge awlpiker
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If there is a one thing i learned playing 1h cav, then that is
never never never never never ever never ever never never ever charge awlpiker
that would fall under rule #2
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that would fall under rule #2
but awlpikers are different , they are evil !!! im telling ya
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You can replace awlpiker with polearmer. Any pole but the smaller ones are dangerous.
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You can replace awlpiker with polearmer. Any pole but the smaller ones are dangerous.
but theye are not evil, awlpikes are !!!
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Change up your speed usage while approaching an aware enemy with a shorter weapon so you throw off their timing. (Takes practice and can get you killed but makes you happy when it works)
Such as riding towards at a bec whos going to thrust. Slow down -> turn away -> once stab is retracting bump slash
^ Only really useful against thrusts.
Also, to bump slash:
As you hit you want to slow down right after the bump to get the hit. I mean you can go fast and do it too; but I find you swing past your enemy if you go full speed.
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Change up your speed usage while approaching an aware enemy with a shorter weapon so you throw off their timing. (Takes practice and can get you killed but makes you happy when it works)
Such as riding towards at a bec whos going to thrust. Slow down -> turn away -> once stab is retracting bump slash
^ Only really useful against thrusts.
Also, to bump slash:
As you hit you want to slow down right after the bump to get the hit. I mean you can go fast and do it too; but I find you swing past your enemy if you go full speed.
Ya I make good use of the 'changeup' when attacking aware enemies. I find it easier to go slow and speed up at the last minute than the other way around. Some of the 2h weapons can hang in the air for an awfully long time.
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Yo 1h cav thread, is there ever a time when you are worried about lance cav? Obviously let's assume you are intelligent enough to not run right at them.
I'm a long time lance cav, and while I still enjoy lancing after the patch I'm rapidly approaching the conclusion that the only thing lance cav can do better than 1h cav is a head on attack, which is suicide vs 2h and even some 1h on foot, and couching is easy as shit to dodge. I've even resorted to short spear to try and stab you dicks at close range because that close maneuver fighting is what I love(usually use desert horse, my +3 large warhorse sits collecting dust).
Convince me to turn to the dark side.
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Facing lancer cav: Very easy to down, if you are sure that they arent in a position to couch then just stop, raise shield and block their pony , shield will eat up all the damage and then you can spam their horses to death with your onehander, then hit them while theyre on the ground.
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Yo 1h cav thread, is there ever a time when you are worried about lance cav? Obviously let's assume you are intelligent enough to not run right at them.
I'm a long time lance cav, and while I still enjoy lancing after the patch I'm rapidly approaching the conclusion that the only thing lance cav can do better than 1h cav is a head on attack, which is suicide vs 2h and even some 1h on foot, and couching is easy as shit to dodge. I've even resorted to short spear to try and stab you dicks at close range because that close maneuver fighting is what I love(usually use desert horse, my +3 large warhorse sits collecting dust).
Convince me to turn to the dark side.
After the patch lancers dont scare me in the least, unless I make some huge mistake they cant get me. In the past, they had to triple team me or worse but I'd still waste plenty of their time and occasionally kill some of their infantry friends in the process.
I think teams of cav can work together well. I love when 2-3 cav teamup on some poor sap and he cant even swing hes getting knocked down so often. The fast coursers are still good at couching heavily armored enemies that might take 2-3 hits from 1h cav to kill if they started from full HP.
Remember rule #5: become a distraction. Work with your the lancer cav and be a distraction for them, get enemy to face you and let the lancer couch the shit out of them!
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Facing lancer cav: Very easy to down, if you are sure that they arent in a position to couch then just stop, raise shield and block their pony , shield will eat up all the damage and then you can spam their horses to death with your onehander, then hit them while theyre on the ground.
What I was going to say.
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Cav can be an incredible powerful tool when used with a team, they are not just lolracecar lances in the back. Good cav working along side infantry can be a force to be reckoned with. Its really ashame that more players dont do 1h from horseback, its a very rewarding feeling especially on those multikill passes that a lance just cant do.
I plan to add to this post later, as the thoughts trickle in.
These are general rules of thumb and guidelines that if followed will improve your role as cav. There are of course exceptions to these rules under certain curcumstances, but following these will help you become a cav master.
DIGGLES RULES OF 1H CAV
1. Never leave your team. Stay near your infantry and protect them and yourself.
If you happen to get dehorsed after charging an enemy spawn, good luck living. While if you are with your infantry, they can quickly surround and protect a downed rider when he is vulnerable.
2. Never frontal charge enemies that are aware of your presence and expecting you.
Ie...the pike man couching with spear ready to stab. Spears, pikes and 2h swords are the most dangerous opponents to you, be wary of them. Expect them to loljumpslash or 360 spin stab you.
3. Avoid engaging enemy cav
Since you are at a reach disadvantage, do not engage lancer cavalry. Waste their time maneuvering, the more time they waste chasing you the less time they spend attacking your teammates. Since you SHOULD be close to your infantry, wait for the enemy cav to make a mistake and go in for the kill. Or better yet, bait them into your teammates pikes!
4. Never charge directly at an enemy that is near a wall.
I would say something flatter than a 45° is safe. Its too risky and if you happen to miss and slam into the wall and rear, you're toast.
5. Never underestimate your role as a distraction.
Many an enemy infantry I've seen blunder right into my waiting teammates because I stayed on their flank with weapon cocked and the enemy was too fixated on me.
All I see is Chicken Chicken Chicken Ninja Kill...
:cry: this what there replacing real Cav with..
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doesnt mean much coming from a coward clan of kiters. if you cant post something useful or informative, stay out of the thread
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I'm shopping around on the market for a MW 1h for my 1H+shield character and trying to economize and use the same weapon on horseback and also on foot. But it seems difficult to find a good balance of both length, speed, and damage that would be useful for both. Especially when looking for thrust, it seems like I have to compromise one of the stats. I might leave out thrust ability because I'll have a champion maneuver horse and can use that can use positioning to make up for the lack of thrust utility.
Any suggestions?
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I'm shopping around on the market for a MW 1h for my 1H+shield character and trying to economize and use the same weapon on horseback and also on foot. But it seems difficult to find a good balance of both length, speed, and damage that would be useful for both. Especially when looking for thrust, it seems like I have to compromise one of the stats. I might leave out thrust ability because I'll have a champion maneuver horse and can use that can use positioning to make up for the lack of thrust utility.
Any suggestions?
There are many MW shaskas and knightly arming on the market right now, very good deals and good cav weapons.
If you've read the other cav weapon threads, THRUST is an important part of a cav weapon. Dont let others tell you otherwise. DO not use slash only weapons.
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for a foot/horseback combo id take knightly arming or nordic champ,
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for a foot/horseback combo id take knightly arming or nordic champ,
agreed. I use MW nordic champ myself
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What kind of situations benefit from thrust? I'm having a hard time thinking about it considering going forward it's barely going to reach past your horses head, or not at all if it is a larger horse. And why not just swing if you need to attack on the sides?
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on horse using thurst is pretty usless,
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Is this still accurate?
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yes. I may add some extra neat tricks as well
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on horse using thurst is pretty usless,
No. It's useful against tincans but also other horsemen.
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No. It's useful against tincans but also other horsemen.
Yep you can also outreach 2h swords that attempt to stab you if you know your hitboxes well
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What are some good swords for 1h cav? 1st day of 1h cav today.
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What are some good swords for 1h cav? 1st day of 1h cav today.
Shaska (good inexpensive learning weapon)
Arab Cav: best slash dmg and reach
Nordic Champ/Knightly Arming: most well rounded
Long Espada: highest thrust dmg (killing aware opponents and anti-cav)
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Protips
1. Armor Up
-As a 1h cav player, you will be in the shit, fighting with your infantry in crowded melee combat. You need to armor your horse, and yourself. Many a time I have entered the fray, only to get my feet cut up and die. Armor yourself, and don't skimp on your feet! Once you have the money armor up whenever possible, for your ass-kickery will be vastly improved.
2. Pick a good horsie.
-For grinding purposes I would suggest a rouncey. Once you have the money, upgrade to a destrier and use that as your primary mount, switching back to the rouncey if you're low on cash, or if you're bored. Eventually get one of the metal horses (cataphract works well).
3. Thrust is your friend
-The thrust attack is extremely effective against any target, particularly enemy cavalry. It's kind of like being a lancer, actually. I might point out that it deals piercing rather than cutting damage for most weapons, which, combined with your speed bonus, makes it a good anti-tincan attack.
4. Pad your k/d
-Your job, as cavalry, is to be a kill whoring bundle of sticks. Steal teammate's kills. Go for the AFK's shamelessly. Kill the stragglers and peasants. Go for distracted archers. Bump those 1h/shield users into the ground. Actually, bump everybody into the ground.
5. PS helps
-Get a build with good powerstrike. I occasionally play as 1h/cav using my lancer build (I was dedicated 1h/cav last gen), but when I do so my performance is meh because I hit like a girl. 15/21 build isn't a good idea for the fledgling 1h/cav.
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Trot bait, it is the funnest thing in the world! THE WORLD! The ultimate troll is to let a fool try and chase you down on foot. It reminds me of agroing mobs in the MMO days of yor.
Basically anyone that is chasing you isn't very good but at least you are pulling them off the main fight so they can't support the top tier players. This works better if you have an xbow, oh the rage, the funny funny rage.
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Trot bait, it is the funnest thing in the world! THE WORLD! The ultimate troll is to let a fool try and chase you down on foot. It reminds me of agroing mobs in the MMO days of yor.
Basically anyone that is chasing you isn't very good but at least you are pulling them off the main fight so they can't support the top tier players. This works better if you have an xbow, oh the rage, the funny funny rage.
Its alot of fun. As a 1her just trot away with your weapon raised and partially turn in directions like you are trying to setup some attack run, this is great for keeping their attention glued to you while your team/archers/other cav buddies come barreling in on them
ALmost have enough notes to post my techniques of 1h onto the thread as well. Another week or so!
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I might add a section about equipment, if you're willing to update the OP, that is. You could cover suggested horses, 1h weapons, shields, and armors. Taking into account upkeep and personal preference, of course.
Shashka all the way, baby.
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if theres 2 cav vs 1 inf youve allready won if you both time and play out your attacks properly, lol if your good you CAN chamber a couched lance YES YOU CAN CHAMBER A COUCHED LANCE its SO effing hard its not funny but once you learn how omg lol its like i just jizzed everywhere thats how cool it is to chamber a couched lance!
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4. Never charge directly at an enemy that is near a wall.
I would say something flatter than a 45° is safe. Its too risky and if you happen to miss and slam into the wall and rear, you're toast.
Good guide for 1h cav, and just in general for cavalry.
I do that thing you said not to sometimes, only though when I see a very high priority target by themselves (and hopefully somewhat near my teammates). But I only do that when I'm couching with a lance...I've always been an all or nothing type.
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i am not afraid to charge 1h when they see me,but the trick is to ride slower,and when you almoust face them speed up and move a little in left side and kill them because moust of ppl are jumping in the air,and i have arabian cav sword wich can outreach them.
Or another way is to slow down and then speed up and bump slash them.
Watch out for lancers who uses arabian warhorses they are nasty because of their manover and that horse start fast after he's been stopped. Best thing is to avoid them or lead them to your infrantery or archers.
i find 1h cav useful when there is not much space to move,and use lance,on open field best thing is lance.
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CTRL+J. Emergency break, if its too late to maneuver or simply slow down. Not a common trick, but without the speed bonus you might just be able to turn around.
You normally shouldn't be in a situation to use this, but sometimes it happens. Could also prevent you from running over a teammate, + aggroing any nearby infantry.
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I always say to myself I should macro ctrl+j but never seem to do it.
It's a great emergency stop :D
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if theres 2 cav vs 1 inf youve allready won if you both time and play out your attacks properly, lol if your good you CAN chamber a couched lance YES YOU CAN CHAMBER A COUCHED LANCE its SO effing hard its not funny but once you learn how omg lol its like i just jizzed everywhere thats how cool it is to chamber a couched lance!
You can only chamber a couched lance while using a shield. You can stay at the duel server all day long with a two-hander trying to chamber a couched lance, it won't happen. However, you can chamber it with your fists if you have a shield strapped to your left arm. :lol:
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I always say to myself I should macro ctrl+j but never seem to do it.
It's a great emergency stop :D
Its semi useful vs 1 enemy lancer cav, but if there are others out there, it can be a death sentence. I would rather take a minor stab to your horses flank than take a full out couch by another lancer
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wonder if these rules can work with katana cav
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You convinced me to use 1h on my cav :D I was wondering if I would use 1h or polearms.
By the way, which 1h weapon do you recommend? Also, any build/guide you recommend too? I'm curious!
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You convinced me to use 1h on my cav :D I was wondering if I would use 1h or polearms.
By the way, which 1h weapon do you recommend? Also, any build/guide you recommend too? I'm curious!
One of the hybrid 4 direction slashing swords:
Nordic Champ Sword, Knightly Arming Sword or Arab Cav Sword
Shaska & Nordic Sword both make good learner weapons for their prices.
I've been procrastinating about making the rest of the guide including weapons/gear, builds & actual techniques (most important)
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wonder if these rules can work with katana cav
what about the nodachi... hmm... lol..
**EDIT: must learn to read stuff on weapons, lol!!**
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I can say i'm looking for a complete version of this. 1H cav sounds so interesting, next gen I may try it! If only the authority (in my opinion) on one handed cavalry finished it!
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with a morning star without a shield on horseback is it considered 1 or two handed for wpf?
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Without shield it's 2h (even though you swing with 1h from horse). if you have a shield it's using 1h skill (meaning you get hit with a speed penalty from being on horseback, and another speed penalty for using a 2h weapon as a 1h).
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Sounds good. thanks.
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Is it viable to use a morningstar on horseback? It is the longest one handed piercing weapon, as it seems. How much length is enough?
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Is it viable to use a morningstar on horseback? It is the longest one handed piercing weapon, as it seems. How much length is enough?
Not worthwhile. Slow, less range, damage is equal or less than a good sword...plus you lack thrust attack.
Speed bonus + sword dmg + bump = dead players. Especially if you get head hits
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Free bump for the excellent guide! I always recommend this one when asked about 1h cavalry.
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How much length is enough?
47 reach/length is enough with a thrust attack.
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8° aware 2h/polearms/archers/xbow/throwers. Just don't do that.
Double post
I've ignored this tip a few times as dagger cav, still made it out okay and got a few stabs in.
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Right now im at the end of my 2nd gen.(archer)main. I was thinking about doing a cav for my next. Can anyone give me a few good reasons why i should choose this build instead of the lancer one? Also, what does the 1h cav build look like exactly?
Thanks in advance :wink:
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1h cav is hard and pain in the ass. Lancer cav is much easier then this,you also need heavy armored horse for 1h cav and lots of gold to frie on this class.
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1h cav is hard and pain in the ass. Lancer cav is much easier then this,you also need heavy armored horse for 1h cav and lots of gold to frie on this class.
Does this mean, you have a hard time earning any gold at all compared to the lancer?
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1h cav is hard and pain in the ass. Lancer cav is much easier then this,you also need heavy armored horse for 1h cav and lots of gold to frie on this class.
wrong. Destrier and even Rouncey are perfectly legitimate picks for 1h cav. Destrier is one of THE best for 1h cav. The price difference between courser & destrier is HALF the cost of a heavy lance.
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Can anyone post their build? :shock:
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Try this:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 15
Hit points: 70
Skills to attributes: 2
Ironflesh: 7
Power Strike: 7
Shield: 5
Athletics: 5
Riding: 5
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 114
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Use Rouncey/Destrier/Mamluk or other fat horsie
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This is odd...it seems like im more usefull to the team on the foot, only sometime i manage to bump an enemy but once that is done, im pretty much done as a cav, need to get down and engage in close combat...
HOWEVER, when i do this there seem to always be a degenerate that instantly kills my horse...
This is way frustrating than a regular lancer cav, there i could at least attack almost any build. With this its seems quite limited :/
Using a rouncey (soon destirer) with a cav shield and arabian cav sword. Is that good or should i use a different 1h. Also, suppose i use a heavy bastard sword. Will it consider 1 or 2h WPF, will it be good on a horse?
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wrong. Destrier and even Rouncey are perfectly legitimate picks for 1h cav. Destrier is one of THE best for 1h cav. The price difference between courser & destrier is HALF the cost of a heavy lance.
Arabian warhorse imo it's the best for 1 handed cav as long as you have 7 shield skill or higher, the forceshield helps your horse to survive alot, and royanss the best 1 handed cav top score on every map with something like 30 kills few deaths. Destrier for the bump ofc, but arabian warhorse is great for killing pikeman and other classes, really really great, especially great at dealing with lancers
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Yeah nice general guide, but most of your rules don't apply when you follow Byzantium_Royanss. Especially the thing about enemy cav. He rapes lancers for breakfast. I agree with the post above. Arabian warhorse is one pain in the ass when 1h cav use it!