For professionals such as myself, I work 11 hours a day in consulting and I don't have the time to make gold for weeks and maintain.
Just don't use 100k worth of gear while playing, problem solved...?
I work 11 hours a day in consulting and I don't have the time to make gold for weeks and maintain. It takes the fun out of the game and is only beneficial for teenagers who don't have jobs.
You mad bro?When the hell did you get unmuted? Back under your bridge troll! :D (no but seriously, welcome back)
Just don't use 100k worth of gear while playing, problem solved...?
the quality (and diversity) of your equipment was determined by how much time you put in playing the game.
A genuine solution would involve, most importantly, giving players something worthwhile to do with gold. It would be one thing if using expensive equipment slowed or even halted your gold gain, preventing you from saving up for something you probably would like to have - then at least it's your choice, and your preferences could dictate what you do. Unfortunately.. given cRPG's history, any more elegant solution is more than one can expect.
Until there is something better, we have to do with crpg and it's 2h agi spamfest I guess.
Barbas you completly failed to understand the benefit of the upkeep big patch, i can understand this from a new player, but if you knowed this time you should understand that former system was exponientaly going to fail.
Naw, I was here 9-10 months ago before there was upkeep - back when they were first thinking about adding it to the game.
And.. the game was somewhat better back then, I'm sorry to say. It was also possible to attain a considerably higher level - though the benefits of retiring were good enough that most everyone wanted to do it.
When you're designing a game that involves leveling up to become stronger and earning gold to buy better equipment, the natural inclination of players is to aim to become a high level with the best equipment. If you don't want to see half the players in the game being high levels with the best stuff, you have to figure out how to make it take longer or be more difficult to reach that point, or have equipment that you can only attain through special means such that few players will have it, etc. 'Upkeep cost' solutions are sloppy, and don't fit the general game model - not when the gold you gain is mostly dependent on a randomly selected team. Sure, if you try really hard you can somewhat increase the chances of your team winning and thus increase your multiplier; but it's still mostly dependent on teams, and auto-balance does a lot to curtail individual influence anyway.
Once upon a time, it took ages to earn enough money for top tier equipment. It used to be a fairly serious decision about what to buy since gold gain was so slow; you actually had to save up a while to try out that morningstar. But once you had it, it was yours to use. Those were good times; the quality (and diversity) of your equipment was determined by how much time you put in playing the game.At that point I agree with you. It was a nice feeling when I was finally able to afford my first transitional. Now I can afford everything in a few days and even if you can't wear the stuff all the time you don't have the "yes, finally" feeling anymore. :(
chadz said pretty clearly when upkeep was introduced that he doesn't want cRPG to become a grind-fest.
cRPG is a grind-fest because multiplayer Warband is repetitive by design.
'Grinding' is usually understood to mean doing the same things, over and over, to accumulate xp/gold. The problematic part of that isn't the accumulation of xp/gold; it's the repetitive nature of what you do to get it. For many people, that can become boring. But repetition is the very nature of the game; you go online and fight battles against other people. Over and over again.
Now.. obviously the solution to the real problem with this isn't "Let's tweak or do away with gold and xp!" That doesn't make the game any less repetitive. That just makes it.. more like native multiplayer. Which is extremely repetitive, though without the added fun of leveling up and buying better equipment. If you're concerned about 'grinding', what you need to add more do to in the game. But it's really about the silliest imaginable situation to create a game/mod with a traditional leveling up, earning gold/xp, buying equipment, etc. type setup, and then try to 'fix' elements that are the very core of that type of game.
I think there would be far fewer complaints if the game hadn't been, until the recent (and still shaky) implementation of Defend the Village, pretty much exclusively PvP. If there was more fighting against NPCs - especially if it were, say, part of Strategus, and success or failure had a more lasting impact - it wouldn't matter so much if some players were much stronger, and had much better equipment, than others. But.. sadly, I doubt we will ever see such interesting developments in the future; there's far too much focus - obsession, even - with tweaking this or that minor element for 'balance'. It's too bad that even in that fantasy far-future scenario in which all the weapons and armor are finally 'truly balanced', the game still won't be any more fun than it is now if nothing new has been added.
'Upkeep cost' solutions are sloppy, and don't fit the general game model - not when the gold you gain is mostly dependent on a randomly selected team. Sure, if you try really hard you can somewhat increase the chances of your team winning and thus increase your multiplier; but it's still mostly dependent on teams, and autobalance does a lot to curtail individual influence anyway.
I don't understand.... I play about 10 hours a week(While working 40+ hours a week).... I always wear the same armor (Vaegir War Helmet, Black Lamellar Vest, Red Wispy Gaunlets, Mail Chaussus, and my MW Danish Greatsword) Armor: 47h 43b 33l Cost: 47,604 gold Slots: 2/4, and I still make about 25k a week.
I honestly think we make to much gold.... Playing casually for 2 months I have every piece of gear I want and 250k+ to go with it.
Upkeep costs are based on the base price of the item(5%) not counting heirloom price inflation. What is the total using a standard danish not a mw one?
...there being very little to strive for after a certain point in the game - but things could be much more interesting.
honestly think we make to much gold.... Playing casually for 2 months I have every piece of gear I want and 250k+ to go with it.The money system now is not about being able to buy the items, it is about being able to use them for long periods. Archers and light infantry rarely have monetary issues since they use cheap equipment anyway. For them money looses its meaning quite fast. For cavs and heavy infantry money limits their ability to field the best equipment that they would otherwise use.
The money system now is not about being able to buy the items, it is about being able to use them for long periods. Archers and light infantry rarely have monetary issues since they use cheap equipment anyway. For them money looses its meaning quite fast. For cavs and heavy infantry money limits their ability to field the best equipment that they would otherwise use.
edit:
Perhaps archers need more gold sink. The real thing they waste are arrows so perhaps the upkeep of those need to increase, but give them a wider range of quality in arrows (combinations of larger bags, damage bonuses), so that the expensive ones are also desired.
Perhaps archers need more gold sink. The real thing they waste are arrows so perhaps the upkeep of those need to increase, but give them a wider range of quality in arrows (combinations of larger bags, damage bonuses), so that the expensive ones are also desired.>Stop It<
Won't there always be that certain point? At some point you have the best items and the highest lvl. There is nothing that can be done about that. Adding more items/lvls only works up to a point, because too high item stats (things like speed and damage) break the warband combat system. Too high stats result in things like attacks being faster than the animation plays, in other words invisible attacks, arrows firing from bows before the archer has drawn the cord, that sort of thing.
I was not aware there was a level cap? What is it?
Also, this game is mostly about skill. The fighting is the fun part here for most of us. If you considering the fighting to be boring and want to be entertained by your money supply, I also suggest you go play WoW. Not meant as an insult or anything, but it just seems like a better fit for you
>Stop It<I think you have misread my post - the gold sink I was talking about is the equivalent of infantry's plate to archers. i.e., very high quality albeit very expensive top equipment that you cannot use every round. The easiest to implement is through the arrow stacks. Will you pay more for another +1 damage quiver? How much will you pay for 5 more arrows in a quiver? How about +2 or 10 more arrows?
There might be a certain maximum point in theory, but with appropriate design even the most hardcore players can continue making real gains - slower and slower though it may be - without hitting that limit almost indefinitely. Where the game engine demands limitations, let there be stat allocation limitations if need be; e.g. make 200 wpf or whatever number the max. If attaining a higher level resulted in having excess wpp beyond that, there's always putting points into a different weapon.
Given the current game design, there's really no reason in these terms why the level cap couldn't be considerably higher. Even if limits need to be set on whatever stats to prevent 'game-breaking' situations, there is more than enough room for players to expand with multiple skill specializations. Iron flesh, athletics, shield, power throw, riding... lots of ways to expand a build if you could go further than is currently possible.
But what seems the silliest to me is how quickly you reach the top now. Okay, sure, if you forgo retirement you could eventually go up.. a few more levels. Or with retirements, you can get some small bonuses from heirlooming stuff. Still, consider how quickly I can purchase and use (though not -all- the time, with repair costs) the best equipment - the most expensive at least - as opposed to how very long it takes to get the relatively small bonuses from heirlooming: Let's say that the average bonus multiplier is 2x, so you're earning 100 gold and 2000 xp per minute on average. (Slighter less with repair costs, but I'll ignore that.) So in.. under 6 hours, I can earn enough gold to buy Black Armor, with 60 points of body armor. But reaching retirement, so I get heirloom that armor for a few more armor points.. that's something like 73 hours of total play time.
If it were me designing the system of play from the ground up, I would make it take much longer for a player to get this top-of-the-line type equipment. Granted, you want a curve of reward that is somewhat faster at the beginning, and after some point the progress must become much slower. But if you can get to within 90-95% of the max in a few weeks of playing.. that just isn't a curve designed for longevity.
Now.. better diversity of game features is more important than all of that. Not that there is any reason why there shouldn't also be a well-considered achievement curve, in addition to more game modes, Strategus, etc. But these issues seem especially significant now, given the general lack of new game features over the past however many months. Hopefully there will be some remedy on that front some time in the not too distant future, but as of now, when there's little else to do but fight, fight, and fight again while leveling up.. the unnecessary inelegance of the leveling/equipment system become more and more painful.
But that would completely ruin the choices you have to make when making a character. Currently you have to choose if you want to be a inf, cav, ranged or hybrid. You can't be all those things at the same time. With your suggestions the only choice you'd have to make is what do you want to start as and then just grind long enough until you can do everything.
in fact its simple, a player should not have a big advantage because he plays a lot, and that´s the case now.
cRPG is not grinding, its customizing... Something like pimp my char.
Your proposal will give too much advantage to no lifers, having better gear or high lvl only because you spend a lot of time is not equality.
- and you can re-spec for free, any time.
(As a side note, if there is concern for making the game more playable for casual players, it actually would be a good idea to allow free re-specs.
so a no lifer is better because he plays a lot (not sure about that but anyway) and you want to give him better gear and more lvl...
Naw, I was here 9-10 months ago before there was upkeep - back when they were first thinking about adding it to the game.Fail.
And.. the game was somewhat better back then, I'm sorry to say. It was also possible to attain a considerably higher level -
though the benefits of retiring were good enough that most everyone wanted to do it.Fail.