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cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 01:34:26 pm

Title: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 01:34:26 pm
«It is not the mountains that we conquer, but ourselves.»
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Crossbowery: basics and tricks
                                                          by DaveUKR


Chapter 1. Prologue
Greetings my friend! You have decided to be a crossbowman, the one who can show his enemies the shortest path to the hell. In this guide I'll try to teach you how to show this path by killing, not by dying. I support your choice but want to warn you about a big amount of difficulties you will face, some of them are easy to solve but the majority is not. You will need a lot of patience and hard work to improve, be ready for that. This guide is written for the classic sniper builds mainly, but it will be useful for other classes as well since it has cross-class useful information. Enjoy reading!

Small Dictionary of a Crossbowman.
You might face some new words while playing cRPG. Here are some of them which might be useful for crossbowmen first of all. I didn't add the most of other abbreviates because they are the names of weapons, like DGS - Danish Great Sword, NCS - Nordic Champion Sword etc.

Agi - agility attribute.
Arba - Arbalest.
DTV - Defend The Virgin. cRPG gamemode.
FOV - Field Of View.
HA - Horse Archer or Horse Archery skill.
HC/HX - Horse Crossbowman/Xbowman.
IF - Iron Flesh skill.
Leecher - someone who plays the game for getting more gold. Most of the time such players stay idle without gear at all or with very cheap one.
Loom/loompoint/LP - looms (heirlooms) are items that got enchanted by special points (loompoints). These items are often called with their level like +3 Arbalest or +1 Crossbow.
MW - masterwork, equals to +3 level of the item.
PD - Power Draw skill.
PS - Power Strike skill.
PT - Power Throw skill.
QML - the sequence of pressing buttons Q, M and L. These are standard keys for reporting a leecher via cRPG ingame menu.
Rageball, RB - cRPG gamemode.
Respec - feature that allows you to reassign attributes and skills. Costs 50% of your current experience. You can also try to win an auction to get the XP saving respec but it will cost a lot of gold.
Retire - feature that allows you to get loompoints. You can retire only on lvl31 and beyond. It gives you 1 LP at 31, 2 LP at 32, 3 LP at 33, 5 LP at 34, 8 LP at 35. You can also get special ranks retiring after lvl33 (Veteran at 33, Master on 34, Grandmaster on 35, Legendary on 36 etc). After retiring you get your character down to lvl1, you can also change the name/sex with this.
Siege - cRPG gamemode.
STF - Skip The Fun. A feature that allows you to create a lvl30 character with 10.000 of gold. You don't get any experience, but you don't lose any experience while making respec neither. You can respec without time delay. Good for testing builds.
STR - strength.
Strategus, Strat - cRPG gamemode with global map on the website (some kind of the multiplayer version of Warband single player).
Tincan - heavy armoured person.
Valour/Valor - special text which appears in game after the end of the round to the most valuable players of both teams. For the losing side it gives +1 to multiplier, for the winning it gives +2. In order to get valour you need to achieve twice more points than the average amount of points per player in that particular round.
WPF/WPP - weapon proficiency and weapon proficiency points.
Xbow - Crossbow.


Chapter 2. Game settings
Before making a character make sure that you've adjusted your game settings.

Video settings:
Run your game and open "Options". You'll find there Video Options. If you're using WSE2 - you'll have much more options.
Screen Resolution - bigger resolution you have more you can see. I recommend you to set the maximum screen resolution your display can show.
Monitor Gamma - it's better to use the maximum 2.50 since sometimes you will be forced to play at night (in-game) where maximum gamma helps you to see enemies.
HDR mode - recommend you to turn off since it messes your screen sometimes.
Grass density - set it to 0, because grass is useless and it only makes it more difficult to find bolts on the ground.
Number of Corpses - set it to 10-20. More corpses will make useless piles of dead players (you can shoot/hit through corpses, they have no hitboxes), less corpses will limit your battle awareness. Sometimes fresh corpses may indicate a nearby enemy.
Shadows - character shadows are useful, shadows of environment are not. Read about it in Chapter 6: Tips of a sniper, tip #5.
Blood Stains - useful indicator.
Particle Systems - turn on. You don't see rain when you turn this off and this is very important for a crossbowman.
The rest you can adjust according to your PC.

Audio settings:
Turn off Music, it's really useless and it only disorients you.

Control settings:
Standard control settings are quite comfortable, though something can be changed according to you preferences.
I recommend you to use:
"Q" for rotating camera because you will have to do it very often;
"R"  for changing camera mode, so you can do it very fast if you play first-person;
"Shift" for zoom;
"Space" for jump;
"W A S D" for movement;
"F" for Use;
"X" for changing weapon mode.

As for mouse, I use inverted Y axis (so as I move my mouse closer to me my camera looks higher), it's more comfortable to me to aim. Also I would recommend you to set "Next Weapon" function to your middle button of the mouse and I recommend you to remove everything from scrolling up/down, especially next/previous weapons because it might switch weapons in the middle of the fight when you touch the scrolling unintentionally (or it happens sometimes when the scrolling moves by itself).

Chapter 3. Making a character
Aim at lvl30 build because you will need lots of heirloom points and you obviously won't be able to play at lvl31 that much. There are some typical builds made by me (which are the most effective as for me), but feel free to experiment. There are also builds for lvl31-33 (I don't think I have to recommend builds to those who can reach lvl33+ because they are experienced enough to decide it themselves).

Before making a character you have to decide what type of crossbowman you want to be. It is very important that you decide your playstyle before making the actual character. I recommend you to try all of them as I consider you having no or not a lot of loomed items. This can allow you to get the needed masterworks (as some items will be used by you no matter what type of crossbowman you're playing, you can also use marketplace to get the needed item).

Shielder
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Build #1 (Classical)
Crossbow/Light Crossbow, bolts/steel bolts, medium/heavy armour (total amount of weight for all the armour pieces should be more than 15), 1/0 slot onehander, 0/1 slot shield.
+ Durable (65 hitpoints, shield and medium/heavy armour make you a hard target)
+ Balanced (you can be dangerous against all classes, you're good both in melee and ranged, your stats fit requirements of the majority of weapons and shields)
+ Lonely wolf (you can make ambushes or just play alone without being afraid of other players killing you fast)
+ Arrowproof (your shield makes you a hard target for ranged)
+ Easy to play (this build forgives your mistakes, shield helps you to block all the attacks and protects you from other ranged)
+ Shieldwall (you can be an effective part of the shieldwall)
+ Valourous (It's much easier to get valour with this build, you can take part in big clashes that will bring you a lot of points)
+ Teamplayer (it's a good build to play with a buddy)
- Slow (you can't really escape from a difficult situation or get the escaping enemy, you have to face it; your equipment and your stats make you slow)
- Expensive (with this build you can barely earn something)
- Close/medium ranged shots (the amount of your WPF and the capabilities of your crossbow don't allow you to make longshots)
- Hybrid (you have an equal amount of wpf in melee and ranged skills, this makes you good in both of them and excellent in none of them, will be harder to get in Strategus battles)
(click to show/hide)

Build #2 (Scout)
Heavy Crossbow, light armour (total amount of weight for all the armour pieces should be lower than 12), steel bolts, 0slot shield, 1slot onehanded weapon (preferably blunt/pierce or swords with high thrust damage).
+ Fast (you can run faster than the majority of other players, it helps you run over others or escape from dangerous situations)
+ Lonely wolf (you can make ambushes or just play alone without being afraid of other players killing you fast)
+ Ganker (Movement speed, reliable shield and a powerful crossbow make you a good ganker, this build is great for making ambushes and flanking)
+ Arrowproof (your shield makes you a hard target for ranged)
+ All ranges (you can be effective in all ranges)
+ Versatile (your character is made to change positions and distract enemies)
+ Sniper (With this build you have enough of effective wpf and a good crossbow to make accurate longshots)
+ One shot, one kill (heavy crossbow is powerful and in some certain circumstances it will kill some players with only 1 body shot, the majority of enemies will die from a headshot)
- Weak (you have only 12 strength so you're forced to use blunt/pierce weapons or thrusty 1handed swords, with cut weapons your hits will glance from wellarmoured enemies and you will need more hits to kill with melee weapons than usual)
- Unbalanced (Your stats make you impossible to fit the requirements of the majority of weapons/armours, you also can't use Arbalest)
(click to show/hide)

Horse Crossbowman
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Build #1 (Classic Horse Crossbowman)
Light crossbow, 2 stacks of steel bolts/bolts, light armour, 0 slot weapon, Destrier or heavier.
+ One shot, one kill (even though your crossbow is not powerful, speed bonus can make your bolt fly like a rocket and in some certain circumstances it will kill some players with only 1 body shot, the majority of enemies will die from a headshot)
+ Fast rider (your riding skills will be higher than anyone's else so even having a slower horse you will still manage to move at the same speed if not faster)
+ Kiter (your stats make you a good kiter, it's actually what you'll be doing all the time - get a speed, shoot, escape and reload)
+ Lonely wolf (you can make ambushes or just play alone without being afraid of other players killing you fast)
+ Versatile (your character is made to change positions and distract enemies)
+ Teamplayer (good HX can help their team a lot, bumping enemies is very important and can be useful)
+ Powerful horseman (Your horse can deal a good damage bumping enemies and can survive more hits than usual, in some circumstances and at higher levels you can even try looting couching weapons or use your 1hander, speed bonus makes it hit harder)
+ Valourous (It's much easier to get valour with this build, you can take off enemy horses that will give you a lot of points plus in the majority of rounds you'll be one of last men alive)
- Close/medium ranged shots (the capabilities of your crossbow don't allow you to make longshots)
- Weak without horse (you lack strength, your capabilities in melee fights without horse are doubtful and should be used only as the last stand measures)
- Fragile (your extremely low amount of HP and the lightest armour don't forgive you any mistakes)
- Unbalanced (Your stats make you impossible to fit the requirements of the majority of weapons/armours)
- Expensive (with this build you can barely earn something)
(click to show/hide)

Build #2 (Full ranged cavalry)
Hunting crossbow, 3 stacks of steel bolts/bolts, light armour, arabian warhorse (or any other horse with high maneuver).
+ One shot, one kill (even though your crossbow is not powerful, speed bonus can make your bolt fly like a rocket and in some certain circumstances it will kill some players with only 1 body shot, the majority of enemies will die from a headshot)
+ Fast rider (your riding skills will be higher than anyone's else so even having a slower horse you will still manage to move at the same speed if not faster)
+ Kiter (your stats make you a good kiter, it's actually what you'll be doing all the time - get a speed, shoot, escape and reload)
+ Lonely wolf (you can make ambushes or just play alone without being afraid of other players killing you fast)
+ Versatile (your character is made to change positions and distract enemies)
+ Teamplayer (good HX can help their team a lot, bumping enemies is very important and can be useful)
+ Neverending projectiles (you have 3 stacks of bolts and in the majority of rounds you won't have the possibility to use all of them)
+ Valourous (It's much easier to get valour with this build, you can take off enemy horses that will give you a lot of points plus in the majority of rounds you'll be one of last men alive)
- Close/medium ranged shots (the capabilities of your crossbow don't allow you to make longshots)
- Weak without horse (you lack strength, your capabilities in melee fights without horse are absent)
- Fragile (your extremely low amount of HP and the lightest armour don't forgive you any mistakes)
- Unbalanced (Your stats make you impossible to fit the requirements of the majority of weapons/armours)
(click to show/hide)

Slasher
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Hunting Crossbow, medium/heavy armour, steel bolts, any 2slots weapon.
+ Durable (Your stats and armour allows you to survive more hits)
+ Balanced (Your stats fit requirements of the majority of weapons and shields)
+ Valourous (It's much easier to get valour with this build, you can take part in big clashes that will bring you a lot of points)
+ Teamplayer (it's a good build to play with a buddy)
+ Melee capable (this build is basically a full melee build with some small ranged capabilities)
+ Versatile (your character is made to change positions, you can easily drop your crossbow when you don't need it)
- Expensive (with this build you can barely earn something)
- Close ranged shots (the amount of your WPF and the capabilities of your crossbow don't allow you to make longshots)
- Slow (you can't really escape from a difficult situation or get all of the escaping enemies; your equipment and your stats make you slow)
(click to show/hide)


Sniper
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Build #1 (Classic Sniper)
Arbalest, medium armour, steel bolts, 1 slot weapon.
+ Fast (you can run faster than the majority of other players, it helps you run over others or escape from dangerous situations)
+ All ranges (you can be effective in all ranges)
+ Versatile (your character is made to change positions)
+ Balanced (Your stats fit requirements of the majority of weapons and armours, you can effectively use all crossbows)
+ Sniper (With this build you have enough of effective wpf and a good crossbow to make accurate longshots)
+ Shield pierce (the power of Arbalest allows it to penetrate some certain shields in certain circumstances, read about it below)
+ One shot, one kill (Arbalest is the most powerful crossbow and in some certain circumstances it will kill some players with only 1 body shot, the majority of enemies will die from a headshot)
- Perfect target (time to reload Arbalest makes you a good target for pretty much everyone, you always need a place where to hide and you will have troubles surviving on the open field)
- Difficult to play (in order to have success you need a good team, perfect aim, good battle awareness and decent melee skills)
- Expensive (with this build you can barely earn something)
(click to show/hide)

Build #2 (Kiting Sniper)
Heavy Crossbow, light armour (total amount of weight for all the armour pieces should be lower than 12), steel bolts, 1slot weapon.
+ Fast (you can run faster than the majority of other players, it helps you run over others or escape from dangerous situations)
+ Lonely wolf (you can make ambushes or just play alone)
+ Ganker (Movement speed and a powerful crossbow make you a good ganker, this build is great for making ambushes)
+ All ranges (you can be effective in all ranges)
+ Kiter (your stats make you a good kiter)
+ Versatile (your character is made to change positions and distract enemies)
+ Sniper (With this build you have enough of effective wpf and a good crossbow to make accurate longshots)
+ One shot, one kill (heavy crossbow is powerful and in some certain circumstances it will kill some players with only 1 body shot, the majority of enemies will die from a headshot)
- Weak (you have only 12 strength so you're forced to use blunt/pierce weapons or thrusty 1handed swords, with cut weapons your hits will glance from wellarmoured enemies and you will need more hits to kill with melee weapons than usual)
- Fragile (your low amount of HP and the lightest armour don't forgive you any mistakes, you have to be really careful)
- Difficult to play (in order to have success you need a good team, perfect aim, good battle awareness and decent melee skills)
- Unbalanced (Your stats make you impossible to fit the requirements of the majority of weapons/armours, you also can't use Arbalest)
(click to show/hide)

Build #3 (Stationary Sniper)
Arbalest, light armour (total amount of weight for all the armour pieces should be lower than 12), 2 stacks of steel bolts, 0 slot weapon.
+ Balanced (Your stats fit requirements of the majority of weapons and armours, you can effectively use all crossbows)
+ Pinpoint accuracy (With this build you have the extraordinary accuracy and higher reloading speed)
+ Shield pierce (the power of Arbalest allows it to penetrate some certain shields in certain circumstances, read about it below)
+ Teamplayer (it's a good build to play with a buddy)
+ All ranges (you can be effective in all ranges)
+ Born for camping (you have 2 stacks of bolts, enormous amount of wpf, you are the best option for Strategus fights)
+ One shot, one kill (Arbalest is the most powerful crossbow and in some certain circumstances it will kill some players with only 1 body shot, the majority of enemies will die from a headshot)
- Perfect target (time to reload Arbalest makes you a good target for pretty much everyone, you always need a place where to hide and you will have troubles surviving on the open field)
- Stationary (most of the time you need a cover to hide and teammates to protect you)
- Ranged only (your capabilities in melee fights are doubtful and should be used only as the last stand measures)
(click to show/hide)

Chapter 4. Gear.
After you have decided the class you're going to play you have to know something about gear. There are 5 types of crossbows and 2 types of bolts in cRPG.

Hunting Crossbow:
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+ Very cheap
+ Low strength requirements
+ Very fast
+ Can be reloaded on the horseback
+ 1 slot
- Extremely low damage
- Low missile speed
- Low accuracy

It's difficult to aim with this, it's viable only against weak targets at close ranges. It's the only 1slot crossbow, so it's the only crossbow you can carry 3 stacks of bolts with and it also can be used as a side weapon in some situations.
Usage: HX, low level, side weapon.
Strategus: It's almost useless in Strategus because it costs a lot in comparison with more effective bows. Nomad Bow, the 3rd bow, has the same price but the experience of battles showed that an archer with Nomad Bow can be significantly more effective than a crossbowman with Hunting Crossbow. Crossbowman with it loses to an Archer in any situation. The only way it can be used in Strategus battles is giving it to your infantry with 0 wpf when you're defending your castle and collecting/bringing bolts.

Light Crossbow:
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+ Cheap
+ Low strength requirements
+ Fast
+ Can be reloaded on the horseback
- Low damage
- Low missile speed
- Low accuracy

Viable crossbow for Horse Crossbowers. It's fast and has a decent damage.
Usage: HX, low level.
Strategus: Horse Crossbowers are not welcome on Strategus battles and there is no sense to buy this Crossbow for infantry. Like it's mentioned above, it costs a lot in comparison with more effective bows.

Crossbow:
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+ Low strength requirements
- Can't be reloaded on horseback

A compromise between heavy and light crossbows.
Usage: low wpf, low level.
Strategus: This crossbow I would recommend to buy for your infantry and semi-crossbowmen (hybrid builds) if you have extra money and you lack tickets. I would not recommend to buy this for dedicated crossbowmen because they're used to Heavy Crossbow or Arbalest (and most of them have Masterwork Arbalest so the difference in ballistic is significant) and you can't snipe with this crossbow.

Heavy Crossbow:
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+ High damage
+ High accuracy
+ High missile speed
- 2 slots
- Can't be reloaded on horseback
- Expensive
- Slow

If you ask me I'd say that this crossbow is not the best choice for a sniper. But it has the best balanced stats. It's not as fast as a Crossbow and not as deadly as an Arbalest, but still it can be better than both of them in some situations, it still can deal oneshot kills (not that often as an Arbalest though) and it's still more versatile than an Arbalest. And of course don't forget about big price difference: Heavy Crossbow is much cheaper than an Arbalest. Heavy Crossbow has 12 strength requirement that makes it possible to be used by 12str builds (watch suggested builds) in other cases I'd say Heavy Crossbow is a good option for those who want to be faster than an Arbalest user.
Usage: sniping.
Strategus: This Crossbow is a good alternative for an Arbalest in Strategus battles.

Arbalest:
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+ Deadly damage
+ Longest range
+ High accuracy
+ High missile speed
- 2 slots
- Can't be reloaded on horseback
- Very expensive
- Very slow
- High strength requirements

The best choice of a dedicated Sniper. Nothing to add.
Usage: sniping.
Strategus: Very useful thing on the battlefield. You can buy a few of Arbalests for your snipers and they will definitely say "thanks" for that. They will take care about them and won't lose it probably. Very good anti-archer solution. Best on defending side, though irreplaceable on attacking side while big battles too.

Bolts:
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+ Very cheap
+ Bigger amount of ammo

Usage: high upkeep, HX.
Strategus: Wise choice for Strategus battles.

Steel Bolts:
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+ Better damage

Usage: all the cases.
Strategus: Ineffective in Strategus due to the price.

Armour. Pay attention on the armour you use. Remember, that the weight of your armour defines the wpf penalty (x2 for each weight point of Head armour, x4 for each weight point of gloves and x1 for each weight point of body and leg armour. If your armour's total weight is less than 5 you won't have a penalty. Remember, that there is no exact formula for WPF penalty, it's not linear and developers will keep it in secret. The existing formula doesn't show the real penalty.). The wisest choice will be a medium armour, because light armour won't protect you from archers and heavy armour will make you very slow with a huge wpf penalty and big upkeep expenses. For classic snipers I recommend a body armour with 9.5-16.0 weight, helmet 1-3 weight, boots 1.5-3 weight and gloves up to 0.6 weight. With such armour you will be the most effective. If you have a possibility - get heirloomed gear.

Weapons. Most of crossbow users don't have a big variety of weapons to choose because of only 1 free slot. Remember that onehanded weapons in Secondary Mode use the wpf of twohanded. Everything can be good in the hands of a good manual blocker. I don't recommend to use:
A) Shortened Spear and Military Fork, they can be effective only using thrusts and this limits you in duels. They don't rear horses like some other polearms;
B) Staff, it is too weak;

Most of twohanded weapons have a longer reach than onehanded or polearms with the same length (7 out of 8 animations are longer, only the right swing of onehanded weapons is a bit longer) due to their attack's animation. You can see the length bonuses in the spoiler;
(click to show/hide)
Blunt damage is superior to pierce, pierce is superior to cut with low power of the weapon and damaging abilities of the character. Blunt and pierce damage is effective against heavy armoured players and it almost never bounces instead of hitting an armoured person.
Here is the graphic of how much damage you deal using different weapon types to a different armoured players. The weapon is set to 28 damage, 15 STR, 5 PS and 60 WPF.
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Mace:
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+ Blunt damage
+ Knockdown chance
+ Cheap
+ High weight
+ Low strength requirements
+ Can be used with a shield
- Short
- No thrust
- No speed gain on heirlooms

Knockdown can be a gift of fortune and lead to the victory even against a very good melee fighter. High weight makes a chance of being stunned while blocking an attack lower and a chance to stun your enemy while attacking higher. Remember that the weight of the weapon (among with raw damage) also defines the chance of knockdown. The colour of this weapon may disorient your enemy, this works fine if you're fighting at night and your armour is dark. This weapon is ultra short and it causes lots of problem while fighting against long weapon users. Also it doesn't have speed bonuses when you heirloom it, this mace only gets weight and damage. In overall this is a good weapon and can be very effective in many situations. Remember that short range of the weapon can be an advantage when you fight in structures or anywhere where it's easy to hit elements of the environment. You can also use this weapon with the shield.

Langes Messer:
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+ Fast
+ Has a thrust
+ Decent damage
+ Secondary mode
+ Can be used with a shield
- Expensive
- High strength requirements
- Cut damage
- Twohanded mode is secondary

The only 1slot sword with twohanded mode. This is a good sword and it has a thrust but it uses the polearm thrust animation (so called half-sword thrust), which makes you unable to hold the range but it's effective in close fights. I find this weapon as a good choice against light/medium armoured enemies, especially against kiting archers, it can't be very effective against heavy armoured players because of its cut damage, which is ineffective against heavy armour. This weapon can always serve you in different situations but it's twice expensive if you compare it to most of weapons listed here. It can be also used with a shield.

Fighting Axe:
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+ Bonus against shields
+ Decent damage
+ Cheap
+ Secondary mode
+ Can be used with a shield
- Cut damage
- Slow
- No thrust
- Short
- Twohanded mode is secondary

The only 1slot axe with twohanded mode and the only balanced axe using twohanded animation/WPF. Bonus against shields makes you very effective against shielders, especially against bearers of steel shields and bucklers, because bonus against shield gives your weapon an ability to almost ignore shield's armour (double damage) so those shields that have low initial health points will be destroyed faster (even if they have high armour, shields with high armour and low HP are the most vulnerable to axes). This weapon is a good choice against light/medium armoured enemies, especially against so called agi-shielders (light armoured shielders with high agility+athletics+shield skill and low strength). Due to its onehanded origin this weapon can be naturally used with a shield.

Military Sickle:
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+ Pierce damage
+ Very fast
+ Difficult animation (sometimes it's difficult to block attacks of this weapon because of its unusual look)
+ Cheap
+ Secondary mode
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Low strength requirements
- No thrust
- Short
- Twohanded mode is secondary

This weapon is the best choice against heavy armoured enemies. It has an enormous speed, strange look and a pierce damage. Combining those with your high agility and athletics this weapon may become a real tincan opener. You can just run around an enemy and make confusing attacks so in the end your slow confused enemy will be dead. Due to warband mechanics this weapon may confuse not only your opponent but you too. You'll have to get used to new style if you want to use this weapon. All weapons have an invisible core which is used to define a collision between your weapon and something else including other players. This core (or "rod" if you want) is always linear and straight, so curved weapons and weapons like Military Sickle will have "dead" or "blind" parts. Green is the part with which you hit, red is the part which you see but doesn't deal any damage upon collision.
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Quarter Staff:
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+ Fast
+ Blunt damage
+ Long
+ Knockdown
+ Low strength requirements
+ Has a thrust
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Very cheap
- Low damage
- Polearm animation
- Will ruin your disguise

This weapon is a very good choice for those who want to control the range between them and their enemy. This weapon requires a very different and unusual style, it has a long reach and a good speed so with your high athletics and agility you can control pretty much everyone. It has a knockdown chance which is also a good thing (but due to low damage and weight of this weapon it will occur not that often), blunt type of damage will make you able to kill even with such low damage though it will require more hits. It will waste your disguise because of its length, enemies will see some kind of antenna sticking out of bushes or wherever you'll try to hide. First-person crossbowmen will suffer because of this weapon's animation. If you block the right direction with this weapon then your hands will fill 60% of the screen which makes you vulnerable to feints.
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Military Hammer:
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+ Blunt damage
+ Knockdown
+ High weight
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
- Slow
- Short
- No thrust
- High strength requirements

Spathovaklion:
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+ Blunt damage
+ Knockdown
+ High weight
+ Fast
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
- No thrust
- Short
- Expensive
- High strength requirements

Warhammer:
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+ Blunt damage
+ Knockdown
+ High weight
+ High damage
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
+ Secondary mode
- Very short
- Expensive
- High strength requirements

Espada Eslavona, Long Espada Eslavona, Side Sword:
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+ High thrust damage
+ Fast
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
+ Low strength requirements
- Expensive
- Cut damage
- Low weight

Steel Pick:
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+ Pierce damage
+ High weight
+ High damage
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
- Very short
- Expensive
- High strength requirements

Elite Scimitar:
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+ Fast
+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
+ Low strength requirements
- No thrust
- Expensive
- Cut damage
- Low weight

Knightly Arming Sword, Nordic Champion's Sword, Spathion, Paramerion:
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+ Can be used with a shield
+ Different nudges
+ Nudge-hit combination
- Expensive
- Cut damage
- Low weight
- High strength requirements


Chapter 5. Mechanics
There are some facts that you should know about crossbows.
1. Crossbows have static damage. No skill or attribute can increase or decrease it. This doesn't mean that crossbows always deal the same damage, there is a random factor which makes +/- range of the damage.
2. WPF improves only reload speed and the size of the crosshair.
3. There is no specified skill for crossbows, only weapon proficiency. That's why you only need strength to fit crossbow's requirements.
4. Bolt speed defines the damage of the crossbow and a trajectory with the maximum flight range of the bolt.
5. Rain/Snow affects the bolt speed of crossbows by decreasing it for 25% (respectively it reduces: damage and trajectory with the maximum flight range of the bolt). Fog doesn't affect, it's only a visual effect.
6. Bolt loses its speed with each meter it flies (air friction), so further you shoot less damage you deal and faster your bolt drops on the ground. Remember, that air friction is 1.5 times bigger than in native, so your projectile loses its speed faster than in native.
7. More powerful shot you make more chance to penetrate the shield you have (the shield penetration also depends on the spot you shoot, you can miss through the shield or the damage can be "swallowed" by the resistance of the shield+armour. Of course, the best option is to shoot in the head). There is an information that the damage you deal to the bearer of the shield is "Damage - (Resistance of the shield x 3)". Also, the bolt will penetrate the shield if it will have more power than 30 + (shield resistance x 3).
8. If enemy runs towards you then the bolt speed relatively him is bigger. This means that he gets damaged more than if he stands. Respectively if he runs away from you he takes less damage.
9. You have to precise your enemy movements to make a successful shot. The precision depends on: the distance and the angle between you and your enemy, his movement/maneuvers speed and direction, your crossbow's projectile speed.
10. Your bolt starts to fly not from your crossbow but from the center of your model (which may cause hitting someone who is too close behind you, i.e. reloading xbowman, or hitting the wall/tree behind you. It happens rarely but still you should know about it). Same for throwing weapons and arrows.
11. Bolt's collision with something is calculated using the invisible hitboxes, which almost never fit the visible model. This causes lots of problems known as "invisible walls".
12. Shield on the back reduces the damage you deal to its bearer if you shoot at his back. It gives 10 + (Resistance of the shield) body armour to the back.
13. The crosshair size depends on the amount of WPF, damage of the crossbow and the accuracy of it. Weaker crossbows have a smaller crosshair than an Arbalest if you have low effective wpf, even though it has the best accuracy. But if you have more than ~120 effective wpf the crosshair is smaller while using an Arbalest.
Example on 110 effective wpf (Crossbow and Masterwork Arbalest). You can see that MW Arbalest is slightly less accurate.
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14. You can't move while reloading, it interrupts your reload. But actually there is a possibility to move while your crossbow is almost loaded.
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DTuPTm7Yz8)
15. Damage of your shot depends on the angle between you and your enemy. It is defined by the gravity, so higher/lower enemy stands less/more damage you deal. You should also consider it while aiming, making less or more prediction to calculate correct trajectory.
16. Crossbows can jam. It happens when you got hit/shot while shooting.
17. You can't shoot whenever an enemy comes too close to you.
18. You always hear a sound, indicating that your bolt (or any other projectile) reaches a flesh of the target (even if you deal 0 damage). You don't hear this sound when you bolt sticks in the shield without penetrating it.
19. Crosshair's size increases significantly when you move or jump.
20. Horse Archery skill increases your accuracy when you are using the horse.
21. You can shoot using every crossbow from the horseback (even with those which have "Can't reload on horseback" tag).

Chapter 6. Tips of a sniper
Reloading a crossbow takes time, reloading an Arbalest takes a long time. In a couple with a low amount of bolts it forces you to aim better. If you don't aim properly you'll remain your kills counter on the 0 position.

1. I play in the first-person mode and I recommend you to play the same mode.

Advantages of First-person mode:
+ You see the correct position of the crosshair (because it will fire exactly there).
+ You're able to use holes in buildings, window in the siege shield to aim.
+ It's easier to shoot from the woods.
+ Your camera is a bit closer to your enemy and FOV is smaller, so it's easier to calculate the distance.
+ You can hide in a hay watching your enemies.
+ You can see through the walls in some cases. Watch the tip "X-Ray vision"

Disadvantages:
- FOV is smaller (and it's good from one side)
- You have to change camera modes to fight in melee if you can't fight using first-person (I use FP both for melee and ranged)
- You have to rotate your camera more often if you don't want to die from a backstab.
- Arrows/bolts/throwing weapons can mess your vision when they're stuck in your hand/upper body.
- Polearms will be difficult to use.
 Feel the difference between 2 modes (Aiming on the same spot).
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2. Find a safe place. It's not a big problem to find a safe place on a city map, but open field is the different story.
Siege shields. If your teammates are doing well they will probably bring some siege shields.

Advantages of standing behind a Siege shield:
+ It is wide and high, so you have a good protection against ranged enemies and you can reload without problems.
+ It has a small window so you can shoot almost in safety (because it's very hard to shot someone who is standing behind the siege shield through this small window)
+ There are lots of teammates close to you (often) and some of them are Crossbowmen. This means that you can ask them to give you bolts (if you're out of them) or loot some from a corpse. Besides crossbowmen you will probably have melee support which also makes you happier and safe.
+ Siege shields are placed manually, so they're placed in the good position almost always.

Disadvantages:
- The window is really small, so your field of view is very limited. You can't see all your enemies while your enemies know where you are.
- There are lots of teammates close to you and some of them really mess your sniping.
- Siege shield is breakable and it's very easy to destroy using a melee weapon. So a signle enemy can destroy your defence and leave you for archers to tear to pieces on the open field.
- It's almost impossible to use third-person mode. Very small field of view.
(click to show/hide)
- Enemies can hit you through the siege shield with their melee weapons if you stand too close to it.

Trees. There are different types of trees. All of them have different hitboxes, some of them are thin, some of them are really big. Some of these trees have such big invisible hitboxes that you have to show your full body to become possible to shoot. Always try to find a thick tree, so you won't be visible when you reload. And remember to reload facing a tree, this makes impossible to headshot you, because your head is inside the tree.
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Meat shields. Even without a shield your teammate can save you and bring a victory to your team being a meatshield. The best position of your defender is when he stands in front of you, blocking with his melee weapon (he covers you better when he stands that way) but the regular position without doing anything will be suitable as well. The top of the mastery is to force your enemy to become your meatshield, this can be easily done with inexperienced or aggressive enemy, who charges towards you between you and your ranged enemies, try to hold the best position and reload as fast as it is possible. This works better when you use something faster than an Arbalest. Remember to reload turning around on 180 degrees when all your enemies are in front of you and your meatshield, this will prevent undesirable headshots.
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Shielders. A shielder is the best friend of the sniper after the other snipers. He can save you from almost everything, holding a shield in front of you and fighting incoming enemies. 1h+shield can save a time for you holding melee fighters, spear+shield can save you from a cavalry. Even a melee player without any shield skill can help you since he can use shields that have no requirements. If you're behind a dedicated shielder - reload looking on your enemies without rotating on 180 degrees, this will reduce the vision of you and prevent random headshots from sides. If you're behind a 0-skilled shielder - rotate 180 degrees like if you're behind a meat shield.
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3. Use your enemy's disadvantages and mistakes as your own advantage. Patience and calmness are two friends of a sniper, let your enemy to make a mistake and use it. The only situation when you have to hurry up is when you're fighting against a crossbowman or an archer on the mid range and a melee fighter on close range.

Jumping enemy. Some enemies really think that jumping allows to disorient a crossbowman. Particularly they're right, but it's not the case of the experienced sniper. Jumper is not able to change the direction or the place where he lands. And even after he lands on an easy predictable place he's not able to move fast instantly. Use it.
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Enemy with weak shield. Whenever an enemy with a weak shield is approaching to you or your teammate - just shoot at him and don't waste time on excessive aiming. Sometimes there are situations when you're far away from your teammate (pike user i.e.) and there is a enemy shielder trying to flank him. The best solution will be to headshot this shielder, but it's not that easy on that range and it's not desirable to risk your teammate's life. So the wisest solution is to destroy the shield and to damage your enemy, this can be done only by aiming right in his hand (shields have invisible forcefields, so you'll hit the shield in any way). You will destroy a shield of your enemy, you will damage him and your teammate will hear the loud sound of destroyed shield.
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Unaware crossbowman. You should realise that crossbowmen are your best friends and worst enemies at the same time. But not all of them read my guide, that's why you can kill some of them easily. Unlike archers, crossbowmen need to stand still in most situations (aiming, reloading, hiding) and the best moment to shoot the crossbowman is the moment when he reloads his crossbow. He is weak but he might see you, so don't hurry and wait a bit because he can trick you and evade your shot right after he made a fake reloading movement. Or shoot him right after he stops to reload, but not between these 2 periods, especially if he has a faster crossbow than yours.
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Enemy running away from you. There are some situations when an enemy tries to run away from you instead of attacking you. This can happen in case of: your enemy is the last man standing, your enemy is almost dead, your enemy is a crossbowman with an empty crossbow, your enemy has no shield (or his shield is weak/almost destroyed), your enemy is scared by you... etc. He becomes an easy target if he runs straight. This shielder is smart, he put his shield on his back to reduce damage in case of being shot but he didn't think about a headshot and was running straight.
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtiM0Utxhd0)

Read the 2nd part below!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 01:38:27 pm
4. Always be ready to solve the problem and take yourself with your crossbow out of the trouble remaining alive.
Enemy running towards you. In this situation there are not that many options to choose. Enemy running towards can make you afraid of him but never let him scare you. You're a hunter, he's a victim, don't make it vice versa. Only a dedicated shielder with a good shield can make big troubles to you, especially if you use Crossbow or Light Crossbow.

Using Crossbow/Light Crossbow. Let me show a trick, which will make you able to kill even the shielder who is not afraid of you. Don't aim at him, while he's running and don't move/change weapon. Just stand on your ground. When he's close enough press your left mouse button and in the same moment kick him, so you'll have your crossbow ready to shoot in the moment he's stunned by your kick. Here's the video showing how to do this with unheirloomed Crossbow, 14 agility and 105 effective wpf (as you can understand it's much easier to do with more wpf, heirloomed Crossbow and more agility. And of course it's easier to do with a light crossbow).
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZMzXmVJr_c)

Using Arbalest. This trick is very difficult to make if you use an Arbalest. You will probably fail because of the long time it takes to aim and shoot. It's more effective to use shielders' weak spots. There are 2 ways of shooting through shields.
The first one is the very centre of the shield. If your enemy runs towards you - you can make more damage so a bigger chance to penetrate the shield.
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTkcy0tpJlU)

The second one is the head of the shielder. The damage you can deal through shield gets multiplied when you aim at the head, so you'll have bigger chances to kill your enemy.
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FKD1WrCwGM)

You would probably say something about legs. But don't even try to do this. I almost never aim at the legs of the shielder, because the invisible forcefield of the shield covers them reliably and the damage you can deal is not that big.
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8soXrVWoik)

Zigzagging enemy. This group of enemies is the most dangerous. Some of them are trying to zigzag and approach, some of them are just waiting for the moment you miss. The first category is easier to kill because they're approaching you slowly and more predictable. The second one is difficult, because they don't come closer. The most effective tactic is just to let your enemy "kill himself". My crosshair doesn't follow my enemy that much, it's more the enemy follows it. Be patient and calm.
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 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNgzIhBuuWM)

Ranged player caught you in trouble on medium range. Sometimes bad things happen and even the best crossbowman can't avoid misfortune. It's not that bad when you miss shooting at melee enemy who is far away from you, it's much worse when you don't have a loaded crossbow and there is a ranged enemy who wants your head (to say nothing about the situation when you're out of bolts on the open field, it's the worst of course). In this situation I would like to show your the trick which can save your life (especially when you have a good body armour and a decent amount of HP left). This trick would be the most effective against light ranged enemies on medium range (Horse/Light Archers, Knives/Shuriken Throwers, Horse/Light Crossbowmen) but still can save your life even against a Masterwork Arbalest (since you have a good armour and some distance between you and your enemy it rarely can oneshot you). Do not use it when you're too close to your enemy or there are melee/cavalry enemies nearby! It can be done in 3 steps (Screenshots are made by your enemy's eyes and he's standing a bit closer to show you how it can be done)
A. Sheath your crossbow/melee weapon and hold the right mouse button to block with your fists. You're too far from your enemy to try to overwhelm him in melee fight and you don't have any time to reload your crossbow.
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B. Zigzag trying to find a shelter and ask your teammates to help. Remember to hold the right mouse button and try to zigzag looking at your enemy. Even if he will try to shoot you in your face you will survive it because the bolt will wound your hand, not your head, and the damage to the hand is drastically lower than the body shot.
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C. After you've been shot (or avoided the shot) you can decide what to do next. I recommend to force your enemy to melee fight only in one case - if you're playing against a heavy crossbow user. In any other situation it's more wise to find a cover, reload and kill your enemy with a crossbow.

Jammed Crossbow. Your crossbow jammed and it's a big trouble. Because when you got shot/hit while shooting at someone your crossbow may jam and there is no way to make a shot or reload it. You can drop it and pick it up but it won't work. You can even pick up another crossbow but still it will be jammed. It's a bug without any known fix and if it happens - you're not able to use any crossbow until the round ends. But don't hurry to drop your crossbow, because it remains being loaded and someone can pick it up and shoot you (because all crossbows are jammed only for you). Drop your crossbow in safe place and switch to melee.
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Out of Bolts. You can run out of ammo due to small amount of bolts and your good (I hope so) surviving skills. In this case you might face big problems because:
1) There are usually not that many dead Crossbowmen around and alive probably won't give you their bolts.
2) Bolts are small and not easy to find and sometimes they're under the ground.
3) You can't pick a different type of bolts (even if you have 0 bolts in your quiver) without dropping your melee weapon.

And you can solve all these problems:
1) Remember the places where other Crossbowmen were killed and if there is no one dead ask your teammates politely (especially those, who are not dedicated snipers).
2) If you see a Crossbow there is a big chance that bolts are close to them, sometimes you will need to rotate yourself around this crossbow to be able to pick up bolts. If you've found Light Crossbow and you have MW Arbalest then you can pick this Light Crossbow and make a shot in the ground, pick up a bolt and load to your MW Arbalest. Besides this, you can use special modifications which make bolts/arrows/throwing more visible but I don't use it because it makes this game ugly.
3) Simply drop your Crossbow (you will drop it with a pack of bolts even though you might have 0 of them), pick it up again and pick a new pack of bolts.
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Charging Horseman. Cavalry always wants to kill ranged as their main targets. And Crossbowmen are the first in priority of horsemen. If you see a horseman charging you the best choice will be to wait until he's close to you (but still out of his reach).
There are 2 ways to eliminate a horseman:
1) Kill a horse and kill a horseman using melee weapon while he's on the ground.
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Advantages:
A) It's easier to shot into the horse's head or any other part of the horse. Due to its acceleration horse will probably die from one shot of an Arbalest in the head.
B) It works when a shielder charges towards you and there is no chance to penetrate his shield.
C) If you do everything correct you'll be able to make at least 1 overhead hit right in horseman's head while he's on the ground. Sometimes you're able to hit him twice.
D) Horse will not bump you.
Disadvantages:
A) Sometimes horse can survive a shot due to big amount of health points.
B) Horseman can survive your melee hits and cause big troubles in melee.
C) Horseman can whistle to find a new horse.
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2) Kill a horseman.
Advantages:
A) Killed horseman is not a problem any more.
B) Horseman has less chances to survive than a horse.
C) You can save a horse for your dehorsed teammates.
Disadvantages:
A) It's more difficult to shot a horseman.
B) Lots of horsemen have shields and they can try to provoke you to shoot by not holding a shield up and then instantly defend themselves with a shield when you try to shoot.
C) Horse can bump (or even kill) you after horseman is dead.

5. See the battlefield! You have to know the whole situation on the field of battle: each piece of it from the ground under your legs to the horizon around you.
You should always tend to survive in situations where it seems impossible to survive and always struggle to save your life by all means.

Recognizing invisible walls. Invisible walls are something that you can't see (that's why they're called invisible, heh) but stops your bolt from reaching the target. There are some hints that will help you to recognize invisible walls and change your firing spot. Don't forget that you can use them as a shield and it's a good trick to find the spot of enemy snipers, trying to get you when they don't know about invisible wall.

1) The most obvious. If you see arrows/bolts/throwing weapons sticking out of the nothing (in the air) then it's obvious that there is an invisible wall there and you shouldn't try to shoot there.
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2) Using your experience. I got used to the most of invisible walls. Remember that most of the time an object has at least 5cm of invisible wall around it. Walls usually have more (up to 20 cm) so it's better to make a step away from the wall and make a shot than taking a risk of shooting a wall. There are some objects that you will remember for long times after finding your bolt in the air 50 cm away from the object, this is the question of the time.
3) Turn on shadows of the characters. You will receive the ability to see the shadow of your character on the objects. The point is that you'll make invisible walls actually visible. The shadow which you drop on the ground will lay down on the hitbox of the object. It's shown on the screenshots below (along with bolts. Need a better screenshot here).
(click to show/hide)

Finding hidden enemies. There are lots of ways of finding hidden enemies. I'll try to explain some of them

1) As I've stated before - turn on shadows of the characters. This will give you an ability to see enemies who stand behind the angle of the wall/house/tree etc. It ruins their disguise even more when they move.
2) Watch the most difficult places for you to shoot: you're enemies are not idiots (mostly) and they tend to find the best spot to hide: trees/roofs/siege shields/hays etc.
3) Use X-Ray vision. Read about this below.
4) Learn the map when you're dead, don't waste time while spectating.
5) Never act like you smell a rat - move like everything is as always.
6) Always take care about listening to the sounds around you. I never listen to the music when I'm playing seriously. You will hear roars when they're holding an attack, you'll hear archers straining a bowstring, crossbowmen reloading their crossbows, steps, their voice commands (they're the same as in your team, though always remember that you see a chat message repeating a command when your teammate uses voice commands).
7) You can see parts of weapons or even body parts of the enemy if they're standing behind small/thin objects.
8) Try to calculate the spot of enemy ranged sharpshooter by watching on his arrows/bolts sticking in ground/walls or even in your body.


X-Ray vision. This thing is something that gives you hero abilities ;). There are 3 types of X-Ray vision, first two work only with 1st person camera, the last works only with 3rd person mode.

1. Noclip head. Come to the wall or any other object you want to look through as close as it's possible, turn your head to this object and reload (sometimes it can work without reloading, you can try holding your attack but reloading gives further penetration of the camera). Whenever you bend down to reload your head goes through the object (so the camera does) and you can see something through the object (works for the most of objects like walls, houses, trees).
(click to show/hide)

2. Ghost objects. There are some objects like hays (both on the field and in barns), bushes or even snowdrifts on some maps. They're passable and they don't have any hitboxes on them, but they're not transparent. If you turn on the first person mode and the object is higher than your camera then you can see everything through it while you're standing inside of it.
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3. Flying camera. When you suspect something but you don't have any possibility to use the 1st method then you can rotate your camera holding "`" key (or any other key which is assigned for that, as I've said before - I use "Q").
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Eyes on the back. When I run on the open battlefield I use 3rd person mode and I rotate camera almost all the time. Don't try to show to your opponent that you have found him, even If he's chasing you. It works great against everyone, you can even play a small role in your own spectacle: act like you're aiming at someone or busy, your enemy will understand that he actually played his role in this drama when you will make a fast 180 degrees rotation and a headshot. It's better to let your enemy to come close, you'll have a maximum damage against everyone: you'll kill a horseman even with a body shot most of the times if he's charging towards you on the full speed, you will catch a shielder without a shield covering his head. But don't stand like a statue, don't forget about other enemies.
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Traps. There are places where you should not even try to go. Mostly, traps are made unintentionally and you have to jump to get into the trap (sometimes you can get stuck even on the edge of the ladder if you jump exactly on it). In others you can step without jumping (like a ladder inside the house on the map called Port Assault). And don't forget that your Warband client will probably crush if nobody helps you to get out of this trouble (or you don't get out by yourself). Though there are some traps which are made intentionally and it's almost impossible to get out of them, if there are enemies waiting for you to get in this trap then you're dead. Even a shield won't save a crossbowman from the death, this crossbowman proved it by the price of his life.
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Waste of time. Try not to chat while fighting. Typing/wasting time blocks you from reacting on sudden dangers. Make ultra-long range kills while your enemies are trying to hug each other or giving high five or whatever else. Punish those who are standing AFK because they're much easier to kill while they're standing still.
Everyone makes mistakes. There was an enemy crossbowman who was trying to kill a friendly crossbowman from the back while I was making screenshots of my victim with SUP BRO position. I killed that crossbowman, though my careless teammate crossbowman took a shot from an enemy.

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Chapter 7. Epilogue
I hope that this guide gave you something that will help you on the battlefield. Each of these 7 chapters was made by me in pursuit of giving you my knowledge, my skills and my experience. Don't be afraid of difficulties and fails: I've missed thousands of shots, I made hundreds of teamkills, I had dozens of decisive shots which I've missed. I keep making mistakes over and over again. And that's why I succeed.

P.S. I want to thank all those men who helped me to make screenshots and videos: Kansuke, KpuBopy4, Ludmar, Eli and Koldborn.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: chadz on June 21, 2011, 01:45:51 pm
How to counter xbows?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: bosco on June 21, 2011, 01:48:09 pm
Good post!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Varyag on June 21, 2011, 02:04:30 pm
The only thing about tricks I am allowed to say is:
To actually hit moving targets use the force. Seriously.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Team_Jacob on June 21, 2011, 02:12:30 pm
How to be a great crossbowman in 5 easy steps:

1. Do not put any points into crossbow wpf and make a full melee build.
2. Wear full plate armor.
3. Use a 2h or polearm.
4. Do not put any points into crossbow wpf.
5. Did I mention not to put any points into crossbow wpf?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Christo on June 21, 2011, 02:28:39 pm
How to be a great crossbowman in 5 easy steps:

1. Do not put any points into crossbow wpf and make a full melee build.
2. Wear full plate armor.
3. Use a 2h or polearm.
4. Do not put any points into crossbow wpf.
5. Did I mention not to put any points into crossbow wpf?

lol.


Good guide Dave, but most of it is common sense, although some newbies will find it useful, I think.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 02:31:15 pm
Christo, it's like only 30% done...
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Paul on June 21, 2011, 03:32:53 pm
More rain next patch.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Christo on June 21, 2011, 03:40:38 pm
Christo, it's like only 30% done...

Guess eating while reading does no good for my awareness.

Just spotted that "not done yet" text.

Keep it up then.  :wink:


Also I'd like to add something: Maybe it's just me, but when I'm not zooming in when using any ranged weapon, I can calculate distance and projectile dropping much easier, because I can relate to the surroundings of my target.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 21, 2011, 03:40:45 pm
lol.


Good guide Dave, but most of it is common sense, although some newbies will find it useful, I think.

cRPG Forum » cRPG » Beginner's Help and Guides » Guides » Crossbowery: basics and tricks
 :lol:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Christo on June 21, 2011, 03:43:56 pm
cRPG Forum » cRPG » Beginner's Help and Guides » Guides » Crossbowery: basics and tricks
 :lol:

 :lol:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Vibe on June 21, 2011, 03:49:39 pm
Guide on construction sites too please!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 04:37:03 pm
Guide on construction sites too please!
Oh yes, for sure

PS. This guide is 50% done
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tor! on June 21, 2011, 05:01:27 pm
Good work, nice guide with nice pictures to it as well. +1!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Visus on June 21, 2011, 05:13:43 pm
Mostly a good guide but I differ with you on a few things.

1. I don't know why anyone would play in FP mode. Yes, you might have a bit more accuracy, but the amount of times I can sneak up on an xbowman while they reload is pathetic. In 3rd person, you have a good chance to see what is behind you. Honestly, I've tried both types for aiming, and if you just aim a bit above where you want to shoot in 3rd Person (without rain) then the bolt will go straight.

2. Saying that the best melee option for a xbower is a 1slot 2hander isn't true imo. There are a ton of great 1h weapons out there, all of which are incredibly deadly. Elite Scimitar, Long Espada, Italian Sword, Military Pick, Steel Pick, Iberian Mace, and the Arab Cav Sword are some I have used and found success with. However, for melee the xbows greatest asset is shotgunning then back-peddle/outranging. You must be competent at blocking to have some of these shorter 1h weapons.

3. Your "Sniper" build is off. Or maybe I read it incorrectly. 15-24 with 160 wpf is useless. Being that precise wont matter with some idiot dodging all over, and shooting at a still target is easy with less wpf.

In my experience, (2 gens) an 18-21 build is the simpler and more effective way to go. You get 3IF, 6 PS, 7ATH, and 7 WM. 140 Xbow and 100-120 1h WPF.

Fast, and deadly from range and melee. Footwork powers this build.

On the whole though, a good beginner guide and I applaud your efforts for writing it.
But xbow in Europe may be different than in NA.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 06:39:04 pm
75% done

PS. Visus, if you're so good at Crossbowery why don't you make your own guide?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Visus on June 21, 2011, 06:44:05 pm
75% done

PS. Visus, if you're so good at Crossbowery why don't you make your own guide?
I never said I was that good. Just some observations. Calm yourself good sir.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 21, 2011, 07:16:32 pm
I never said I was that good. Just some observations. Calm yourself good sir.

Looks like claims, especially the "sniper" part. I'm calm as a boa.
Video guides added.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ujin on June 21, 2011, 08:19:48 pm
A very nice and detailed guide Dave, gj !
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ylca on June 22, 2011, 01:06:03 am
This is one of the most well polished guides i've seen on the forums. Amazing job and i was shocked to see it wasn't finished. Also to the people saying "common sense" maybe to a player who has played since beta, but not everyone knows how the trajectory of bolts works (very different than arrows), about shield piercing, or any of the other dozens of tricks that were mention here.

Also, for those who are upset because crossbows are so "accurate", grab one and try firing at mid range. Archer arrows fly amazingly straight across most of the map. Much of the time i watch crossbow bolts drop after a very short range. Not only do crossbowmen have to deal with movement and angle, they also have to adjust for drop and a missile speed that is quite misleading. Having high base damage for a weapon that can't be increased on a percentage basis (just because few take high levels of Power Draw doesn't mean its not possible, PD 7 is a 98% increase to bow damage) isn't a terrible design choice.

Beyond that the supposed accuracy of the crossbow doesn't really mean much. Between equally skilled ranged players the bow wins out most times for actual ranged usage. A crossbow is a sidearm for mostly melee characters, and that seems to be the way it should be.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 22, 2011, 01:10:35 am
Who said experienced players can't learn from this? I've been playing since august, and i learned something.

Great guide.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Sultan Eren on June 22, 2011, 01:35:51 am
Respect for good work Dave!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Vibe on June 22, 2011, 07:52:54 am
Hm I was never too much into crossbows, but I just might try an xbow alt.

A+ guide
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Lezard on June 22, 2011, 04:13:58 pm
Exellent guide, especially the videos caught my eye.

Only thing bothering me is that more people will want to play as a crossbowman after reading this. :mad:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Duerkos on June 22, 2011, 05:02:45 pm
Amazing guide Dave, Thank you for this! I don't plan to use an x-bow, but some tips are also useful for an archer, and this is the best guide I've seen on this forums.  :o
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Panoply on June 22, 2011, 05:38:00 pm
Best guide I've seen here. Very helpful. I may have to pick up a crossbow.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Gurnisson on June 22, 2011, 05:55:52 pm
Nice guide, Dave, though I definitely differ with you when it comes to 1st vs. 3rd person.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 22, 2011, 06:03:26 pm
First person is difficult to handle with but i'm sure that Crossbowmen who want the maximum accuracy should use exactly this.
To say more, i'm playing with reversed vertical mouse axis (Y reverse). This means that my crosshair moves up when I move up my mouse down.

P.S. 80% finished. Edited minor mistakes, added one trick and some sentences are rebuilt to avoid confusing.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: [ptx] on June 22, 2011, 06:56:33 pm
I see a certain Dave has waaaay too much free time on his hands...  :lol:
Amazing in-depth guide!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Gurnisson on June 22, 2011, 07:06:47 pm
Trust me, I have no problem with my accuracy. The better awareness I get from 3rd person have made me play in that perspective for over a year. You'll definitely get used to it.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 23, 2011, 06:45:42 am
questions :

Is it really better to use weapons in 2hand mode? I use a military pick and it rocks!

what would you loom first? the steel bolts or the xbow itself?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Gurnisson on June 23, 2011, 08:24:51 am
Is it really better to use weapons in 2hand mode? I use a military pick and it rocks!

Depends on your build and playstyle tbh. I have next to no power strike and no wpf, so I'll use the ones in two-handed mode to get some better speed/damage. If you've invested ps, wpf or both into your melee weapon, you can use one-handed weapons better. Less bouncing then.

what would you loom first? the steel bolts or the xbow itself?

Xbow if you're gonna use the same for most/all of the time. Steel Bolts if you're gonna change all the time.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on June 23, 2011, 08:30:37 am
ok, thx for the info!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 23, 2011, 02:57:00 pm
questions :

Is it really better to use weapons in 2hand mode? I use a military pick and it rocks!

what would you loom first? the steel bolts or the xbow itself?

Actually the answer on your first question was given in guide before you asked it ;)

I'd heirloomed xbows first.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Bulzur on June 23, 2011, 03:35:17 pm
Excellent guide.
I read it to try to find other xbows weakness and also because i was interested in making one.
The FP view seems really interesting as an xbox user. And i really loved the kick+headshot, one thing i'll never be able to do as an archer. :'(

I'll probably retire my shielder alt and make him a dedicated arbalest user, with a well-made arbalest.

PS : In "Crossbowery : basics and tricks #5", how do you do to gain +7 bolts after shooting one ? :lol:
Edit : Didn't know ! :shock: That's what happens for only joining with a melee weapon, we lack knowledge.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 23, 2011, 04:08:38 pm
PS : In "Crossbowery : basics and tricks #5", how do you do to gain +7 bolts after shooting one ? :lol:

It's a duel server, you get your bolts recovered when you win a duel ;)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Dravic on June 23, 2011, 06:53:17 pm
Great guide!

You are well-known sniper crossbowman, Dave, and I respect you very much. I waited months for your crossbowery guide - I just knew you will do it one day and here it is!

One thing I can add about builds:

(speaking to players)

If you are really experienced sniper (definitly not like me) and/or just love being accurate (like me), you can get an awesome 15 str/27agi ~~180 wpf sniper crossbowman.
As Dave commented some time ago, and he is partially right: Why would any crossbowman need 180wpf in crossbows?
Here is the answer: reload speed and accuracy. And the fact Dave may not know or at least didn't mention in guide: more wpf = less time between mouse button pressed and actual shot. Fact visible at most when using sniper crossbow (Arbalest).

I had a screenshot of masterwork and normal Arbalest + ~~170wpf somewhere, will show it here when I find it.

EDIT:

Reticule of Masterwork Arbalest and Arbalest with ~~170 wpf in 3rd person (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,6937.msg107843.html#msg107843)

   /\
   ||

It's a sin to miss not moving target at range < 30m. With 180 wpf - not tested by me yet (30 lvl needed. Oh, sweet grind...), but I bet better reload is worth it if you mind melee fights (8 athletics if you hate melee, 5 ps 3 athletics if you can fight melee well)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 23, 2011, 08:30:02 pm
If you are really experienced sniper (definitly not like me) and/or just love being accurate (like me), you can get an awesome 15 str/27agi ~~180 wpf sniper crossbowman.
As Dave commented some time ago, and he is partially right: Why would any crossbowman need 180wpf in crossbows?
Here is the answer: reload speed and accuracy. And the fact Dave may not know or at least didn't mention in guide: more wpf = less time between mouse button pressed and actual shot. Fact visible at most when using sniper crossbow (Arbalest).

Well, what for would you need 180 wpf? Pinpoint accuracy with no armour doesn't give you a guarantee for headshotting everything. 165-170 is optimal for a sniper (depending on the weight of armour). You lose 6+1 (for WM) skill points for these 3 attributes and extra 10 WPF. This means that you won't have any IF (-4 HP in comparison with my build), you'll sacrifice 5 athletics (from 8 to 3) which makes you VERY slow if you want to wear some armor (and you'll definitely NEED this armour because you have no IF) and you sacrifice your melee wpf, which also makes you almost useless in melee with your 3 athletics and weak short weapon.

The point of my build is not to make a pinpoint super fast crossbow-machine, but to make an effective and versatile both in ranged and melee fights player who can survive an Arbalest shot.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Shablagoo on June 24, 2011, 04:50:54 am
Tip:  If you're shooting someone above or below you, the less you have to compensate for trajectory.  Meaning aim lower or even on top of their head depending on how extreme the angle is.  This is in third person, not sure how first person works.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 27, 2011, 12:26:13 pm
Tip:  If you're shooting someone above or below you, the less you have to compensate for trajectory.  Meaning aim lower or even on top of their head depending on how extreme the angle is.  This is in third person, not sure how first person works.

This is already in one of those Mechanics questions.

PS. Added trick "Converting Bolts" and 3 situations "Jammed Crossbow", "Out of Bolts" and "Charging Horseman". Also added some lesser corrections. I think it's done now.

PPS. Sorry guys, admin Espu asked me to take out the trick "Converting Bolts". Join Academy to learn how to do it.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Jacko on June 27, 2011, 12:58:17 pm
Some good advice here. Pictures and videos are always good. The whole FP thing is in my experience highly situational (I use it when aiming up mostly), as well as advising on "only" using 2handers. As I see it, it is one of those things that doesn't matter, neither are clearly better or worse but just like FP it's situational. Anyway, good guide.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Frankysan on June 28, 2011, 01:35:40 pm
i hate you on the field, but just made a xbow alt, +1 bar for the good job! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: darmaster on June 29, 2011, 12:52:24 pm
ecxellent guide
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ming on June 29, 2011, 04:03:32 pm
Thank you Dave for this detailed and well explained guide. It really helps. +1
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Jaundice on June 29, 2011, 05:14:54 pm
Nice work dave, Kudos +9,000  :D
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Nemeth on June 29, 2011, 07:00:46 pm
Nice guide! I've been xbowman for my entire c-rpg career an I still learnt new things ^^. For example the weak spot of shields. I had no idea it's in the middle of the shield, always figured it's just luck wether you shoot through or not. I also don't find first person all that useful, but that's just a matter of opinion.
Overall, I think it's an awesome guide from one of the best xbowers in the game. What more do you want, guys? ^^
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Siiem on June 29, 2011, 07:13:21 pm

common sense

What?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Lezard on June 29, 2011, 11:59:53 pm
What?

Nerf
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Corwin on June 30, 2011, 10:31:07 am
Dave, just one question. I played a generation as a crossbowman (probably never again), and I think I had several time an issue with jammed crossbow. Solution that worked for me was simply to switch to melee weapon, and then again to crossbow. Is this the same bug we are talking about?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 30, 2011, 07:13:54 pm
Dave, just one question. I played a generation as a crossbowman (probably never again), and I think I had several time an issue with jammed crossbow. Solution that worked for me was simply to switch to melee weapon, and then again to crossbow. Is this the same bug we are talking about?

Maybe (there is a screenshot of jammed crossbow in the first post). But it can't be fixed by switching weapons and even dropping it.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on July 05, 2011, 06:18:52 pm
minor fixes in the text.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ming on July 05, 2011, 10:36:26 pm
minor fixes in the text.

great guide! bump
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Zaharist on July 07, 2011, 12:57:08 pm
Really great work Dave, hope you don't mind me translating it for RusMnB, a lot of ppl there are interested in crossbowery but still we have no worthy guide.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on July 07, 2011, 04:01:00 pm
Really great work Dave, hope you don't mind me translating it for RusMnB, a lot of ppl there are interested in crossbowery but still we have no worthy guide.

Thank you!
Sure, you will make a good thing to those players who have difficulties with huge texts in English.

P.S. Weapon descriptions are changed. Will add descriptions for more weapon soon.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Spawny on July 08, 2011, 11:59:40 am
Something you might add to the guide:

Some jobdescriptions for the build you posted.

For instance:
Sniper: Your job is to take out priority targets or snipe unaware enemy archers.... blablablablabla...
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Different on July 08, 2011, 12:05:02 pm
Gj Dave, makes even me lazy person tempt to make a crossbower alt  8-)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on July 10, 2011, 07:32:31 pm
minor fixes, added some info about animations. Remember, that this guide is not full, the full version is available to members of Mercenaries Academy
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Vex. on July 11, 2011, 04:31:56 pm
minor fixes, added some info about animations. Remember, that this guide is not full, the full version is available to members of Mercenaries Academy

Cheers  8-)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Different on July 11, 2011, 04:39:04 pm
Cheers  8-)

 8-)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Brutal on July 12, 2011, 09:23:08 am
Very instructive, well written and pretty good illustration. One of the most useful guide out there.

Dave helping peoples Wtf is going on  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Different on July 12, 2011, 09:47:49 am
Well actually Dave DOES help  :D He shoots people that try to backstabs you,  when you are fighting someone he hits 99% the enemy ( the other 1 % is an enemy standing right next to you ),  he helps out poor fake peasants in need  :wink: he... places contstruction sites tactically !
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: LordRichrich on July 24, 2011, 08:20:30 pm
Please put a srction about how with no heirlooms you can't 1 shot 99% of a server, so you should wait a minute or 2 before shooting unless you can hit the head
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Spawny on July 25, 2011, 01:29:55 pm
Please put a srction about how with no heirlooms you can't 1 shot 99% of a server, so you should wait a minute or 2 before shooting unless you can hit the head

With a Masterwork Arbalest and Masterwork steel bolts it took me 3 close range (<10 meters) bodyshots to kill Tommy wearing his Lordly brigandine and mail gauntlets.

Unless people are injured allready, I don't kill anyone in mail or more armour as the range gets past the 20m mark in 1 hit.
Within 20m, I only kill low IF agility characters in 1 hit (and archers, cuz they wear paper tissues for armour).
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Darkkarma on July 25, 2011, 01:54:59 pm
Good guide.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: mOus333 on July 29, 2011, 04:21:03 pm
thx for tips.
I try use it :)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Erasmas on August 08, 2011, 08:11:35 pm
Dave, I  just found this thread. Excellent work, +10 !!!! I fight with xbow for some time now, it is still cool to get all info in one place. Good Job!


 
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Shinobi on August 09, 2011, 11:22:54 am
nice guide Dave, I´m contemplating making a xbow character so this will come in use =)
Especially the first person tip was interesting. I´m looking for a bit of a light armored hybrid being a ninja so the xbow will come in handy while being quick on the feets and proficient in melee too.   

Does this seem okey for a melee centered xbow hybrid in light armor?

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 25
    Hit points: 50

    Skills to attributes: 10

 
    Power Strike: 5
    Athletics: 8
    Weapon Master: 8

    Two Handed: 140
    Crossbow: 127
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Kafein on August 09, 2011, 11:24:49 am
Thanks for this guide that will hopefully lead to a faster xbow rebalance.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Corwin on August 09, 2011, 03:35:00 pm
Shinobi, why would you want 25 in agi? Better transform that extra point into 2 IF. And from my experience, I would say that 127 would be better with two handed, because most of the swords swing nicely with that wpf.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Shinobi on August 09, 2011, 04:31:27 pm
Shinobi, why would you want 25 in agi? Better transform that extra point into 2 IF. And from my experience, I would say that 127 would be better with two handed, because most of the swords swing nicely with that wpf.

Because every point of Agility increases your attacking speed and gives you additional weapon proficiency points and beside I never thought IF did much of a difference with only two points in it.

But yes its of course a choice that could potentially pay off in some instances. Only 127 seems a bit low to me thou with the wp deduction from using black Lamellar. I found on my throwlance main with 133 pole-arm that it got too readable with using my preferred armour forcing me to use the Tribal warrior outfit. Maybe its different with two handed, must confess I haven't played 2h for a long while and much have changed. I thank you for your input, Il start with 127 and see how I will like it and only add the rest If I feel I get to gimpt one on one.

cheers
Shinobi   
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 09, 2011, 07:42:49 pm
Because every point of Agility increases your attacking speed and gives you additional weapon proficiency points and beside I never thought IF did much of a difference with only two points in it.

cheers
Shinobi

Your level dictates how much WPP you get per level.
AGIL by itself slightly effects how fast you run.

Though IF is argueable on how much it effects you. If you did take 2 IF then your HP total would go from 50 to 54 for your build, which may make a difference if you wear medium-heavy armour. *shrugs*

To each their own.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Belhade on August 11, 2011, 12:56:52 am
Great guide. I am a dedicated 2Her but I have a xbow that I will occasionally use with 1WPF - this guide may make it useable!

One question, and one tip: Does shield on a back really help? I remember hearing a few months ago that it doesn't in cRPG. Is this true?

On reloading, you cannot move when you're bent over with foot in the stirrup, but once you straighten up to load the bolt you're good to go. Maybe about half the total reload time.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on August 12, 2011, 04:50:14 pm
NOOO not tommMyyY's horse... Right, who killed it this time?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: zagibu on August 16, 2011, 09:48:19 pm
That's strange, at first I read "Cocksuckery: basics and tricks", then I noticed I misread, but shortly afterwards it dawned on me that I did not, in fact, misread the title.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 23, 2011, 08:51:19 am
I tried that "sniper" build today with my stf- char... I can only say that OMFG! Brilliant guide... Wish I could use the constructionsites like a master tho :D
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on August 25, 2011, 02:36:39 am
Where was this a year ago?  :cry: Not only a good guide, nicely written and makes the crossbow sound more suave than James Bond playing Debussy in a noir.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: akapraf on October 13, 2011, 03:46:38 pm
how it's calculated the power strike for crossbow?
Diferente from 15 str to 18 str is visible? or points used for attributes are used only for difficulty of the Crossbow
?

PS:and sorry for my bad english
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Teeth on October 13, 2011, 04:02:47 pm
Damage of crossbows is only determined by the crossbow and the bolts. Strength, Powerstrike and Powerdraw do not influence the damage. Crossbow wpf increases accuracy and reload speed, nothing more.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Bromagi on October 15, 2011, 02:18:42 pm
Looking for a crossbow build.. planning on using the heavy crossbow most of the time unless i have x3 then i would use arbalest, planning on using a simple sword(1h) as a sidearm, tunic over mail and cattlehat, any sugguestions on a build that allows me to kill people with 3 or less shots and still have some wpf in 1h to block opponets that sneak up form behind.... been trying out some builds lately and havent tryed crossbows yet =))
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on October 28, 2011, 03:33:52 pm
something from this guide is outdated, will be fixed some day or another.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on November 03, 2011, 05:14:22 pm
Please, post your questions (new or the old once again) so I will know what is not clear.


Will add some info about weather.
1) Rain effect = Snow effect
2) Fog doesn't affects crossbows
3) Weather system is currently broken
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tennenoth on November 04, 2011, 11:11:30 am
Please, post your questions (new or the old once again) so I will know what is not clear.


Will add some info about weather.
1) Rain effect = Snow effect
2) Fog doesn't affects crossbows
3) Weather system is currently broken

Now where is that "98% chance when DaveUKR is online" quote..? :P

But great guide none the less! Very indepth and well explained.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on December 02, 2011, 12:44:50 am
Info and pics about bolts are changed. Though it went in a bit wrong way. Will fix all the pictures and improve the usefulness of the guide.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: karasu on December 24, 2011, 02:00:49 am
Don't forget to update the weapons names/stats pics.

I can help you on it if you want.

Cheers
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on January 23, 2012, 07:36:14 pm
Guide is updated, one more block of tips is added (in the second post). The first post is edited slightly (added/changed some info).

Koldy, you can help me with screenshots of weapons, cause I don't have anything to make a screenshot of. And I need screenshots for new tips, cause I don't have Warband :x
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tristan on January 25, 2012, 02:48:57 am
Very impressive guide. A good read for everyone including non-xbowers.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: karasu on January 25, 2012, 10:32:31 pm
Here some pics in the original size for you to use regarding the second part as you wish:

1 - Invisible walls:

a) extremely retarded invisible tree limit: http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4691/mb417.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4691/mb417.jpg)

2 - X-ray vision:

a) aiming down through a wall in 1st person: http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8695/mb413.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/8695/mb413.jpg)

b) reloading against a wall: http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/7897/mb415.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/7897/mb415.jpg)    /    http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3823/mb416.jpg (http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3823/mb416.jpg)

c) using an haystack with 1st person view to see everything and not be seen: http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5003/mb414.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/5003/mb414.jpg)

3 - Eyes on the back:

a) Walking on open field looking behind: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6487/mb412.jpg (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6487/mb412.jpg)

b) Looking to the side when reaching a corner: http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3089/mb411.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/3089/mb411.jpg)


Cheers.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Shinobi on March 20, 2012, 03:48:16 pm
Sticky this guide? Its one of the best made iv ever seen and is updated  8-)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on April 03, 2012, 06:30:49 pm
here are few survival tips for dedicated arbalesters (15 str & 24 agi, no melee skills, high athletics) in siege.

stay away from the noob fagchers & xbowmen

friendly noobs are much more dangerous than your enemy. never stand near them. the noobs are easy to spot so you can find out if the player near you is a noob or not. check his&her aiming, hiding, reloading style and you'll see if he's a noob or not. they may leave the doors open and let the enemy sneak into your safehouse. if you see a noob around, always check the doors behind you just in case if it's left open. they may reveal your hidden sniping position by drawing enemy archers' attention. they may also teamhit you accidentally which may jam your arbalest and ruin your round.

retreat

know the best time to retreat. never try to be an hero, observe your surroundings, and make sure you are not the last man standing on a wall or a tower. quickly retreat to the second safe position when the enemy starts to gain upper hand and outnumbers your allies. in most rounds, front walls can hold only for first 2 mins, always check the timer and plan your retreat.

do le parkour

you need high agi build for this, always use unusual ways to escape from a scene. in most cases, you can run faster than your foes tnx to your high agi build and low armor. if you are on top of a tower and the enemy is approaching you, just wait behind the stairs while aiming at him in 3rd person (be careful, not in front of the stairs, your goal is to escape, not to face enemy and also never zoom in close quarters, always shoot from the hip) til he reaches the top, do thee shotgun and then drop yourself to the stairs (never jump at this moment, this will stun you for a while, just drop yourself). after leaving your foe alone on the top story of tower, you can start jumping down. if there are more enemies going upstairs while you're trying to escape, try jumping over them. most towers in c-rpg have scaffolds and beams inside, try landing on them and use them as safe checkpoints. you may also risk injuring yourself while escaping, but it's always better than a certain death.

there are always shortcuts around, don't hesitate to use them, never head for dead ends and never stop running til you reach a safe point. heavy armored shielders are easy to avoid, if you have high athletics, draw circles around them to avoid their attacks, stay away from polemy old friends, spam thrust attacks with your dagger in clusterfucks. your build sucks hard in melee, so, never duel people, "hit and run" is your objective.

afk people

afk friendlies can be useful for your survival, you can use them as cover while reloading. you can also retreat towards them to distract your pursuers, since they are easy to kill, most of your enemies will stop chasing you for a while to kill the afk, this will bring you extra time to reach a safer place.

so the summary, stay clear from the friendly noobs, observe your allies and try to make good use of them, watch the timer, do acrobatic escapes and don't be an hero. now you know the basics of survival.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Schild en Vriend on May 26, 2012, 06:41:43 pm
I really have to thank you for making this nice guide with some good pics/vids, very infomative and usefull for a new player like me.
I'm definitely going to use these tricks on my Sniper Crossbower! +1!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 02, 2012, 01:28:23 pm
Guide updated. Several typoes were fixed, pictures were added /thx to Koldborn/, will add more chapters (Crossbowery in Strategus, Assigning keys, small dictionary etc.) and change some pics.

I'm not playing and something could be outdated but I'll try to do my best updating this guide. Will update it today in the evening.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: bagge on June 02, 2012, 01:43:46 pm
Hi Dave
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ronin on June 02, 2012, 02:54:55 pm
Can you make a changelog if possible? So we won't have to re-read full of it :)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 02, 2012, 06:41:41 pm
Can you make a changelog if possible? So we won't have to re-read full of it :)

The whole crossbow section has been changed. All crossbows' pics have been changed, all info about crossbows have been changed.
Added "Strategus" lines to all crossbows and bolts.
Added builds for all classes those who level up to lvl33.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Plavor on June 02, 2012, 06:43:24 pm
Hey Dave.

Come back.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: bagge on June 03, 2012, 02:07:43 am
Come back.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 04, 2012, 11:44:19 am


I would be glad to see you guys on the battlefield, I really miss most of the players but I won't come back soon (not earlier than in the second part of summer and I won't probably play crpg but some strat battles).


Guide changelog:

- The whole 4th chapter was changed (pictures and text are 70% changed to be more informative)
- Minor typoes fixed
- Added a new class/build Scout
- Minor additions/changes in the text
- Added Chapter 2. Game Settings
- Merged chapter 3 and 4 into one (Chapter 4. Gear)
- Added Chapter 7. Epilogue
- Chapter 1. Prologue is edited
- Added a Small Dictionary of a Crossbowman in Chapter 1. Prologue.

I need a picture for the class Scout (I would also appreciate new pictures for Horse Crossbowman class and a shielder classes).


Will add "Crossbowery in Strategus" section  and info about each class one day.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 05, 2012, 07:33:05 pm
This is one of the best guides for any class. Very informative, lots of visual aids to help readers understand what you are explaining.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Endruux on June 06, 2012, 08:41:33 pm
Is there any mod that makes FLYING bolt more visible? Cause i often shoot and lost my bolt flying and can't take a correct on aim.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 11, 2012, 07:58:12 pm
Is there any mod that makes FLYING bolt more visible? Cause i often shoot and lost my bolt flying and can't take a correct on aim.

Try this:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,33631.0.html

I haven't done so, but if you have questions, ask in that thread and I'm sure you'll get some answers
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: GuiKa on June 13, 2012, 09:10:24 am
This is one of the best guides for any class. Very informative, lots of visual aids to help readers understand what you are explaining.

Well this guide has been made by the Master of xbow.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Strider on June 21, 2012, 06:25:45 pm
thx man. this guide really helps.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on June 21, 2012, 07:04:03 pm
Hi Dave, you dont play very ofthen now, so you probably haven't see, that mant arbalest users use 0 slot round steel buckler today.
So I can suggest to add some build with this shield.
I was planning this 1 to lvl 34
18/24
6 ps
8ath
7shield
8wm
150 wpf xbow
117 wpf 1h

I dont know can it help somebudy,but maybe it will :wink:
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ronin on June 23, 2012, 04:44:47 pm
Hi Dave, you dont play very ofthen now, so you probably haven't see, that mant arbalest users use 0 slot round steel buckler today.
So I can suggest to add some build with this shield.
I was planning this 1 to lvl 34
18/24
6 ps
8ath
7shield
8wm
150 wpf xbow
117 wpf 1h

I dont know can it help somebudy,but maybe it will :wink:

That is a good idea sir agor!
I'd suggest making it for level 30>31>32>33>34 as how DaveUKR did in this guide.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on June 23, 2012, 08:42:26 pm
Hi Dave, you dont play very ofthen now, so you probably haven't see, that mant arbalest users use 0 slot round steel buckler today.
So I can suggest to add some build with this shield.
I was planning this 1 to lvl 34
18/24
6 ps
8ath
7shield
8wm
150 wpf xbow
117 wpf 1h

I dont know can it help somebudy,but maybe it will :wink:

Hi, Agor, nice to see you. There is a build called Scout in my guide, it's a build for crossbowmen who use Steel Buckler and the main weapon is not an Arbalest but Heavy Crossbow. Why?
1) I only observe builds which can be finished on lvl30 and 33. And this is one of the main reasons why you can't compare these builds.
Quote from: DaveUKR
Aim at lvl30 build because you will need lots of heirloom points and you obviously won't be able to play at lvl31 that much. There are some typical builds made by me (which are the most effective as for me), but feel free to experiment. There are also builds for lvl31-33 (I don't think I have to recommend builds to those who can reach lvl33+ because they will decide it themselves). Note that the first build in each class is a finished build, so it's not designed to be viable for those who want to levelup after lvl30.
2) I don't find 150 wpf enough for a Sniper, especially on lvl34
3) Crossbowmen don't really need a lot of strength. If Arbalest had 12 str requirements, I would pick 12 str build for my character. You might say something about HP and the power of attack. Look, let's compare our suggested builds.
4) Your character has 53 HP on lvl34, my Scout build has 51 HP on lvl33, not that big difference.
5) Your character has 150 xbow wpf and 117 wpf in 1h, so it's not a Sniper nor a 1hander.
6) My build is way faster than yours (+3 agility, +1 athletics, both give movement speed), so with successful attacks speed bonus will particularly annihilates the difference between damages.
7) My build is made for diversions, so it should be faster than almost anything. Heavy Crossbow is better for lower wpf users than an Arbalest. You hide, you shoot, if you don't miss but don't kill you come out, you chase (or reload) and you kill.
8) My build is designed for Anti-sniper activity as well. You can't overwhelm a Sniper with slower reloading and movement speeds.
9) This build was also designed for kinngrimm-like style, steel pick requires only 12 strength, you can use blunt 1handers aswell (winged/iron maces) or swords.
10) My build has more Weapon Mastery and more Shield Skill as well.

To sum up, I would say that my Scout with Buckler build is probably designed for other purposes and it's not better or worse, it's just different. If you can be excellent with some build, why shouldn't you use it? I only show the path, you can have your own different one and if you feel that it's better you should move there. And I know that you will succeed.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on August 05, 2012, 11:54:32 am
slightly updated, fixed some minor mistakes. Will probably make a new thread for Strategus guide because I almost ran out of space for text in both of my posts.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Tore on August 08, 2012, 01:36:34 am
needs more consturction sites
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: karasu on October 07, 2012, 03:38:27 am
Hmmm I think you should add as weapon choices for snipers the low tier maces, like Iberian mace, Flanged mace, Winged mace, etc. They are friggin deadly and viable to  a build high athletics and 5ps or less, plus the godly knockdown.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Darkkarma on October 07, 2012, 01:02:12 pm
 
Hmmm I think you should add as weapon choices for snipers the low tier maces, like Iberian mace, Flanged mace, Winged mace, etc. They are friggin deadly and viable to  a build high athletics and 5ps or less, plus the godly knockdown.

I concur.

The Iberian Mace is honestly a fantastic choice as far as one handers for sniper builds go.

I haven't really touched the Flanged or Winged, but id imagine they are solid picks as well.


Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 14, 2013, 09:03:30 pm
I know that past ~120 wpf you only increase reload speed. Is there an upper cap for this? If I did a crazy build and had 190 wpf, would I reload faster than at 170 wpf?
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Phantasmal on April 29, 2013, 01:24:04 am
Hey Dave,

I was going through some calculations for accuracy and, according to the "damage effect on accuracy" (base accuracy-damage/4 I believe)  formula the hunting crossbow should be the most accurate overall (although it is certainly not). I was wondering what factor causes this to break down? Thanks!
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on April 29, 2013, 06:18:41 am
Hey Dave,

I was going through some calculations for accuracy and, according to the "damage effect on accuracy" (base accuracy-damage/4 I believe)  formula the hunting crossbow should be the most accurate overall (although it is certainly not). I was wondering what factor causes this to break down? Thanks!

You were probably checking it using a character with crossbow wpf. Hunting Crossbow is the most accurate if you have 1 wpf. Higher accuracy stat - bigger bonus to actual accuracy (crosshair size reduction) you gain per wpf.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: sdfjkln on July 17, 2013, 09:33:34 pm
Any chance this guide will be updated to reflect the most recent patch? Alot of the builds listed are no longer viable slot-wise. Just asking cause this thread was an awesome resource for builds+mechanics when I was first getting acquainted with xbows.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on October 12, 2013, 04:24:19 pm
Any chance this guide will be updated to reflect the most recent patch? Alot of the builds listed are no longer viable slot-wise. Just asking cause this thread was an awesome resource for builds+mechanics when I was first getting acquainted with xbows.

The first part of the guide is updated. All the builds are updated and detailed, changed some other information, changed/added/removed pictures and a lot of text (like 30% of the text got changed). Will be updated completely a little bit later.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Taboranth on October 24, 2013, 10:57:58 pm
Okay guys, I am new to this, for the stationary sniper how am I post to get 30 agility and 15 strength when there are only 30 lvls to go
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: DaveUKR on October 24, 2013, 11:14:50 pm
Okay guys, I am new to this, for the stationary sniper how am I post to get 30 agility and 15 strength when there are only 30 lvls to go

You need to convert skills to attributes. It takes 2 skill points to get 1 attribute point and vice versa. Once you have 2 skill points - you have a button "Convert skill".
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Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Taboranth on October 24, 2013, 11:54:30 pm
You need to convert skills to attributes. It takes 2 skill points to get 1 attribute point and vice versa. Once you have 2 skill points - you have a button "Convert skill".
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Thanks alot man, I appreciate it
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Fjup on February 07, 2014, 11:39:42 am
Hi guys, I want to play xbower again after 6 or more months off and I'm curious if anything important has been changed for xbowers? I've been searching the forums but i haven't found anything crucial. So I just want to be sure, before i'll make my build like it was before :)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Ronin on February 07, 2014, 12:16:42 pm
2h/polearm boys turned their inquisition towards xbowers this time, that's what is changed nowadays.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Fjup on February 07, 2014, 05:27:15 pm
Ok thanks, nice to know :D but it's not exactly what i meant. What about new game mechanics/boosts/nerf important for xbowers (and their builds)? :)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Chosen1 on February 08, 2014, 01:25:32 am
A comprehensive guide to crossbowery:

1. Aim
2. Click
3. ???
4. Dominate scoreboard
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Fjup on February 08, 2014, 09:34:41 am
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Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Corwin on February 08, 2014, 07:53:11 pm
A comprehensive guide to crossbowery:

1. Aim
2. Click
3. ???
4. Dominate scoreboard

Dominate scoreboard with crossbow? I think you just proved yourself to be completely ignorant about the topic.
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Krex on February 23, 2014, 12:36:45 pm
Does Horsearchery skill have any effect on crossbows used on horseback?(Accuracy)
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Gurnisson on February 23, 2014, 01:34:49 pm
Does Horsearchery skill have any effect on crossbows used on horseback?(Accuracy)

Yes
Title: Re: Crossbowery: basics and tricks
Post by: Krex on February 23, 2014, 01:46:32 pm
thanks