cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Boss_Awesome on January 11, 2011, 11:21:07 pm

Title: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Boss_Awesome on January 11, 2011, 11:21:07 pm
I've seen a lot of criticism of the new patch by people who say "You don't need to do anything to get money" and "there is no reason to try and win anymore".  Now it is pretty obvious that these people aren't too bright because they don't even mention the multiplier.  I'm not gonna bother wasting anymore time talking about these types.  What I want to talk about is leechers.  They have high level characters but don't wear much gear and don't try to help their teams.  They say they do this because they can make more money that way by avoiding upkeep.  What do they do with this money?  They don't wear gear so they don't need to buy anything.  They don't have to worry about upkeep so they don't need money for that... Why do leechers need money?  I don't get it!!!  Do they swim in a big virtual pool filled with money somewhere? 
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Tornkik on January 11, 2011, 11:22:24 pm
They rack up 200k then the next time you see them they are in fullplate riding a plated charger.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Gorath on January 11, 2011, 11:31:38 pm
They rack up 200k then the next time you see them they are in fullplate riding a plated charger.

^
This.  I assume it's just the terribads saving up to crutch-mode a round with crutch-mail on a plated crutcher.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Dekiri on January 11, 2011, 11:32:53 pm
It is still stupid=P
If you have light gear that is not expensive and manage to get a kill now and then the chances for your team winning increase massivly since it is often about 1 kill that shifts the balance between loosing and winning....

+ its no fun at all not to play the game but just leech... i really don't get it. If you just want fast money you are better off even with light gear.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Toffi on January 11, 2011, 11:36:06 pm
Yeah it's so stupid! One day I've been in the losing team for a lot of maps, even if I was at the top of the scoreboard, it's just because there are so many peasant who don't help me in any way at all. They should at least get a weapon. It's really not hard to get gold as normal infantry with a decnt armour and weapon, I play cavalry and have to pay 1100 gold upkeep for my courser!
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Noely on January 11, 2011, 11:37:35 pm
I don't understand the leachers who stand around doing nothing even when its the same just to run in and get killed xp/gold wise.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Ganon on January 11, 2011, 11:40:21 pm
Remove upkeep, go back to pre-patch xp/gold system, problem solved. Don't blame the players for following the rules.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: AirPhforce on January 11, 2011, 11:41:45 pm
I find the best way to try new weapons is to find them on the ground. If I start a round with my steel pick in hand I'm reluctant to just swap to a iberian mace I find lying there. Of course, it's completely undependable, so I'll also wear a robe as armor with boots and gloves in case I go 4 or 5 rounds without anything to pick up.

So am I leeching? Yeah. But im not "sitting around doing nothing."
Title: Why Leechers are stupid. Wait what?
Post by: DrTaco on January 12, 2011, 12:03:36 am
You still get good money for attending... Multiplyer is just there for a bonus. So, AFKing is alot easier because you get gold, even if a little longer. There isn't a reason to win besides a bonus that you will lose soon.

Reading you rpost a bit more.. You piss me off. I won't bother to explain why because it's not worth my time.

From a tincans prospective would probably be: Even if we win and get more gold I still loose a shit ton for repairs. Not point in using it anymore. Maybe i'll use it every once is a while.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Radix on January 12, 2011, 12:13:06 am
Just dont mix the leachers with peasants.... dont expect peasant to charge with a stick over his head just to die 5 sec later and then wait for next 5 minutes for next round(how fun!) peasant is a new player that cant do a shit in the combat - leacher is a player capable of combat but not using it's potentional fighting valors to help team win
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: ThePoopy on January 12, 2011, 12:15:07 am
if you see someone play a game just to not play it, isn't it obvious that he is stupid?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: DrKronic on January 12, 2011, 12:24:23 am
Remove upkeep, go back to pre-patch xp/gold system, problem solved. Don't blame the players for following the rules.

What u don't realize is.I make good money in lamellar plus mail and a weapon

And the repair cost on mail kits and boots is neglible and even the lamellar is super low

Once I get a multiplier I incrementally upgrade to better set to try and get the big multi

I see five multiplier as a chance to bring out the full power of my character



And its like gambling "bet myself all"

PS old system sucked everyone sitting around jerking it waiting for someone to kill enemies near ur location

I mean on a five multi youcan end up 750 to 1000 richer
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Boss_Awesome on January 12, 2011, 12:24:58 am
Remove upkeep, go back to pre-patch xp/gold system, problem solved. Don't blame the players for following the rules.

No, no, no.  That doesn't make sense.  I know they are following the rules.  I just don't get why...  I don't believe it is to get full plate/armored horse because that isn't even that good anymore.  Cav will do much better with coursers in the new patch environment.  Armored horsemen are swarmed and killed by fast cav very quickly.  I think that leechers believe that getting more gold is the end all of this mod, when it actually doesn't do anything except help you upkeep the gear they refuse to wear.  If gold got transferred to strategus or something I would understand, and possibly even join in.  However, as it is leeching just makes no sense.  This was never about peasants, i understand their need to leech their way into decent gear so they can play.  They should, however, try to help their team win or they aren't playing a peasant properly.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Dwarden on January 12, 2011, 01:26:03 am
that's what you get by rewarding people who do nothing at all same as people who do all the work ...

the pay everyone system is totally counter productive to teamwork
You don't need do anything at all not move finger and still getting rewarded ...

i really hope someone realize that damage to enemy team should define if player deserve any payment
or capturing objectives etc. w/e really does job for team
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: RandomDude on January 12, 2011, 02:35:09 am
the point is that if the leechers actually did something for the team they might reach the x5 multiplier more often which means more gold
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: LordSnow on January 12, 2011, 02:55:55 am
Upkeep ruin the game, it's too expensive to maintain gear that it's oblige us, high lvl player, to play in very light armor if we want to save enough money to play our plate one day in the future. It's IMPOSSIBLE to upkeep plate armor+ good shield+ good weapon, even with x5 bonus. We NEED to save . The game is not the same anymore. (Yeah we know Gorath, plate is bad, it's the devil, blah blah blah)
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: rustyspoon on January 12, 2011, 03:05:26 am
I just don't understand how so many people say they have no money and can't upkeep their equipment. I have no problems with money whatsoever. Hell, this morning on one of my characters I made 20k in just a couple hours. Even with upkeep I make WAY more money than I did pre-patch. I don't understand where all the whining comes from.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: ActionMan3K on January 12, 2011, 03:07:40 am
I just don't understand how so many people say they have no money and can't upkeep their equipment. I have no problems with money whatsoever. Hell, this morning on one of my characters I made 20k in just a couple hours. Even with upkeep I make WAY more money than I did pre-patch. I don't understand where all the whining comes from.

Agreed.  All of my characters are making money hand over fist even with the upkeep.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: LordSnow on January 12, 2011, 03:09:53 am
Try to play as a 1hander/shield player. Everyround you've to pay your weapon or your shield, maybe both + Your armor. 400 for a nordic champ..300 for a shield...+ armor if you're unlucky. If you havn't the multiplicator ar x3, hard to make money with medium gear, and i don't speak about plate..

You guys, must be an archer or a peasant without any good stuff to upkeep
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Moscher on January 12, 2011, 03:13:26 am
I just don't understand how so many people say they have no money and can't upkeep their equipment. I have no problems with money whatsoever. Hell, this morning on one of my characters I made 20k in just a couple hours. Even with upkeep I make WAY more money than I did pre-patch. I don't understand where all the whining comes from.

Repairing a heirloomed Strawhead is not expensive:-)

Whiner? Where?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Gorath on January 12, 2011, 03:17:59 am
Try to play as a 1hander/shield player. Everyround you've to pay your weapon or your shield, maybe both + Your armor. 400 for a nordic champ..300 for a shield...+ armor if you're unlucky. If you havn't the multiplicator ar x3, hard to make money with medium gear, and i don't speak about plate..

You guys, must be an archer or a peasant without any good stuff to upkeep

orly?
Klappvisor
Red tunic over mail
Leather boots
Leather gloves
Langes Messer
Lance
Elite Cavalry Shield
Sarranid Horse

Total cost:  52,155 gold.

This is my STANDARD SETUP and I'm making money steadily, not losing it.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Cannibal on January 12, 2011, 03:22:08 am
...Why do leechers need money?  I don't get it!!!  Do they swim in a big virtual pool filled with money somewhere?


I have pool parties on Wednesdays... but I don't think you're invited... I'll enjoy my virtual millions with my other virtual Denar millionaires.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Nemeth on January 12, 2011, 03:24:18 am
Upkeep ruin the game, it's too expensive to maintain gear that it's oblige us, high lvl player, to play in very light armor if we want to save enough money to play our plate one day in the future. It's IMPOSSIBLE to upkeep plate armor+ good shield+ good weapon, even with x5 bonus. We NEED to save . The game is not the same anymore. (Yeah we know Gorath, plate is bad, it's the devil, blah blah blah)

Did you read chadz statement when he implemented the changes? If so, then you must realize that you were exactly the part of the community that made the game not fun for anyone who hadn't grinded for countless hours. chadz is obviously not gonna change the game back, and I'm glad, because when I see today some dude in full plate, being bashed by 3-4 ppl not even blocking that greatly and still managing to survive for tens of seconds, then I can't imagine I could have fun leveling while every other person was this terminator.
So please either leave or play the mod and stop whining, because that certainly won't get you anywhere.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Cannibal on January 12, 2011, 03:28:06 am
orly?
Klappvisor
Red tunic over mail
Leather boots
Leather gloves
Langes Messer
Lance
Elite Cavalry Shield
Sarranid Horse

Total cost:  52,155 gold.

This is my STANDARD SETUP and I'm making money steadily, not losing it.


I use a very similar set-up minus the homo horse/lance combo :P

My set-up with my heirloomed weps costs just a tad bit less then that total and I'm walking away from the PC 3-10k up every time I play... even with repairs. 3k being without many multipliers and 10k obviously with a nice streak. I only ever play in minimal gear when I'm drinking beers/toking with friends over and can't put 100% attention on the pc :P

So... are some people just getting suuuper unlucky or...

they get 10k and then spend 9k of it on gear they don't really need and then whine they can't afford repairs on gear they really can't afford yet anyway. Would you buy a Bugatti if you worked at Wal-Mart? Another example... if you win $500,000 it wouldn't be very smart to buy a $475,000 house would it? Without a proper income, you can't afford the taxes...

Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Ganon on January 12, 2011, 03:37:32 am
orly?
Klappvisor
Red tunic over mail
Leather boots
Leather gloves
Langes Messer
Lance
Elite Cavalry Shield
Sarranid Horse

Total cost:  52,155 gold.

This is my STANDARD SETUP and I'm making money steadily, not losing it.

We've done the math several times and that makes you a liar.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Beleidiger on January 12, 2011, 03:41:08 am
Lechers are the dirt of this Game and yea they exist and they dont need a Reason for that wat they do they gain Gold and XP and thats all!

And dont say an Peasant can do nothing 1 explain (and something like that happened more than 1 Time)1 Peasant was standing beside me he had a Weapon in his Hand 1 Enemy arrives Me and that Enemy start Fighting the Peasant just stand there and watch i hit the Enemy 2 Times the Peasant still watching instead of trying to hit the Enemy to maybe stumble him wat happens the Enemy slice me in Half with 1 strike the Peasant run away but the Enemy is faster ...Both Dead Round lost and its not like they just standing around they hide too just to maybe survive the Round and dont loose a Live + get Multiplier!

I mean hey they are able to stay the whole Day on the Server to End up with lvl 31 and a shitload of Gold!


Try to play as a 1hander/shield player. Everyround you've to pay your weapon or your shield, maybe both + Your armor. 400 for a nordic champ..300 for a shield...+ armor if you're unlucky. If you havn't the multiplicator ar x3, hard to make money with medium gear, and i don't speak about plate..

You guys, must be an archer or a peasant without any good stuff to upkeep

Areed to degrease it a little little bit but remove ???U MAD?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Gorath on January 12, 2011, 03:44:46 am
We've done the math several times and that makes you a liar.

No, the math showed that you can maintain 20k ish gear if you LOSE EVERY ROUND and still make gold.  With a higher multiplier and longer streak with that multiplier you can maintain a much higher gear cost.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,676.0.html
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Litho on January 12, 2011, 03:46:48 am
Dying over and over to useless jerks just because they have superior gear or higher stats can be frustrating. It's easy to see why people might leech if they feel like their character is too weak to be able to contribute in any fashion other than being a target. More a problem with cRPG than the players, IMO.

(the only way I personally "leech" is suicide charging into guys so I can sit out a round, usually I do try to at least sneak up on people and clobber them though)
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Beleidiger on January 12, 2011, 03:50:55 am
Dying over and over to useless jerks just because they have superior gear or higher stats can be frustrating. It's easy to see why people might leech if they feel like their character is too weak to be able to contribute in any fashion other than being a target. More a problem with cRPG than the players, IMO.

(the only way I personally "leech" is suicide charging into guys so I can sit out a round, usually I do try to at least sneak up on people and clobber them though)

And no one will make you Suicide but the Try to Help would be Appreciated!

And everyone should get a Bit Gold/XP for Free but Pls not in the same amount like the Guys ho workt hard for it!
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Ganon on January 12, 2011, 03:51:04 am
No, the math showed that you can maintain 20k ish gear if you LOSE EVERY ROUND and still make gold.  With a higher multiplier and longer streak with that multiplier you can maintain a much higher gear cost.

You can maintain maximum 48500 and this will break even, with 52k you will lose gold, you instead say that you're gaining gold. Now you might gain a little if you get a nice winning streak to get a 5x for a few rounds, but in the long term you will lose gold. Pretty simple concept, no need to troll anymore.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Nemeth on January 12, 2011, 03:58:20 am
No, the math showed that you can maintain 20k ish gear if you LOSE EVERY ROUND and still make gold.  With a higher multiplier and longer streak with that multiplier you can maintain a much higher gear cost.

Of course, if you're good enough to drive your team to victory most of the time, you will get multiplier streaks. However, this is not how it works for most of the people. I don't consider myself a bad player nor a great player, I had a good games, and ones not so much. I think this goes for most of the players. For me, it's imposible to upkeep gear worth of 38k gold and stay in green numbers at the end of the day. And that is definitly not a superior gear to be running around in.
The meaning of this is, just because you can maintain your 50k+ gear doesn't mean the system doesn't need tweaking, so a mediocre gear is affordable for a mediocre player.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: LordSnow on January 12, 2011, 04:05:35 am
We've done the math several times and that makes you a liar.

Yes, liar.

Gorath how can you be a this much big liar?

Srsly, stop talking Gorath, stop saying anything. We know you hate plate and you're a liar. So, now, stfu.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Cannibal on January 12, 2011, 04:08:35 am
Yes, liar.

Gorath how can you be a this much big liar?

Srsly, stop talking Gorath, stop saying anything. We know you hate plate and you're a liar. So, now, stfu.


Here's my question... what the fuck is your obscene obsession with plate? Shit bro... viagra's gonna go outta bussiness one of these days too, whatcha gonna do then?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Tornkik on January 12, 2011, 04:11:44 am
Forums are just a place for people to argue.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Cannibal on January 12, 2011, 04:14:12 am
Forums are just a place for people to argue.  :rolleyes:


...welcome to the internet, where everyone has a voice :D  I personally find it entertaining.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Beleidiger on January 12, 2011, 04:16:02 am

...welcome to the internet, where everyone has a voice :D  I personally find it entertaining.


Oh than i am just wrong here i thought this Forum is to solving Problems with the Game not getting Entertained!?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Gorath on January 12, 2011, 04:19:35 am
You can maintain maximum 48500 and this will break even, with 52k you will lose gold, you instead say that you're gaining gold. Now you might gain a little if you get a nice winning streak to get a 5x for a few rounds, but in the long term you will lose gold. Pretty simple concept, no need to troll anymore.

Sorry but you're going of an average that doesn't apply quite the way you think it does.  I log in, get on a winning team, get x5 multiplier for 6 rounds with only 1 thing breaking every other round, log out.  I've made money.  Since the patch, I've made enough money to stay at my 40k buffer zone while purchasing 2 more horses (rouncey, cataphract) a bec, a siege xbow, 3 new 1hers and a siege ladder.  Sure the law of averages may say that you're only going to be able to maintain 40k, but in practical use things seem to work out a bit different.

doesn't mean the system doesn't need tweaking, so a mediocre gear is affordable for a mediocre player.

Mediocre gear?  Mid-tier gear isn't exactly "mediocre" and your numbers of 38k gear aren't mediocre either:
Longsword   5123
Pike   1589
Lamellar Armor   12030
Khergit War Helmet   1775
Mail Gauntlets   3427
Leather Boots   363
_______________
Total:  24307

A far cry under your 38k example, only slightly above 20k and this is a far cry from "mediocre" gear....   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Moscher on January 12, 2011, 04:36:34 am
R.I.P

I will miss you forever *sniff*  :cry:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Cannibal on January 12, 2011, 06:01:27 am

Oh than i am just wrong here i thought this Forum is to solving Problems with the Game not getting Entertained!?


these are not the threads you're looking for... *waves hand like jedi*



This is 'General Discussion'
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Gorath on January 12, 2011, 06:58:57 am
dfg

Ew...
The image was grainy so I ran it through photoshop to sharpen it
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Trout4711 on January 12, 2011, 10:11:15 am
What u don't realize is.I make good money in lamellar plus mail and a weapon

People like Gannon don't like to play with anything but the most expensive armor, because anything less than that does not make their dick look big enough.


It's a rather basic problem of games that solely consist of killing other human players - you have to farm other people to be successful, however those other people need a chance to farm YOU too. It's a delicate balance of killing and getting killed.

If c-rpg would be pay2play, perhaps Gannon would just buy the "armorsuit of uberness" and the "sword of pwnage" with real-life money - and then start to whine if those items did not give him the absolute power over other players.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Babelfish on January 12, 2011, 10:31:09 am
A far cry under your 38k example, only slightly above 20k and this is a far cry from "mediocre" gear....   :rolleyes:

Everything below Milanese Plate is mediocre gear for these guys :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Diablo on January 12, 2011, 10:42:15 am
Problems :
- If good team balance (we all stay to x1 or x2).
- If the round is quilckly end (no win money/experience).

Just to say This system cannot work suitably

The last XP/GOLD system wasn't be better?

With the previous patch, <250 gold when we won  and/or <50 when we lost.

Gains gold/xp by killing the opponents and by staying near the battle seemed to me more interesting.
It was our actions and our initiatives that award us our gold/experience and the victory... not a vulgar pendulum...

Why not to just add 1% "repairs" with it?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Ganon on January 12, 2011, 11:01:36 am
People like Gannon don't like to play with anything but the most expensive armor, because anything less than that does not make their dick look big enough.


It's a rather basic problem of games that solely consist of killing other human players - you have to farm other people to be successful, however those other people need a chance to farm YOU too. It's a delicate balance of killing and getting killed.

If c-rpg would be pay2play, perhaps Gannon would just buy the "armorsuit of uberness" and the "sword of pwnage" with real-life money - and then start to whine if those items did not give him the absolute power over other players.

I've never played in plate armor, but i wanted to get there eventually as part of my character growth. Now that option is no longer available. You don't understand what a role playing game is, as i said several times, go play native you will enjoy it alot more, instead of trying to make crpg a clone of native with a character you can make in 2 days (not really that much of a difference), and equipment based on wether you win or not.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: krampe on January 12, 2011, 11:06:37 am
Problems :
- If good team balance (we all stay to x1 or x2).
- If the round is quilckly end (no win money/experience).

Just to say This system cannot work suitably
In theory yes, but it never happens. Maybe some players have a bad time, bad luck or one team uses a awesome tactic (rare)
Less round time less break chance!

Quote
The last XP/GOLD system wasn't be better?

With the previous patch, <250 gold when we won  and/or <50 when we lost.

No you did not, it was capped at 150 ish gold.

Quote
Gains gold/xp by killing the opponents and by staying near the battle seemed to me more interesting.
It was our actions and our initiatives that award us our gold/experience and the victory... not a vulgar pendulum...

True

Quote
Why not to just add 1% "repairs" with it?

Because then you will soon experience my Morningstar in your soft neck held by my plated arm after being trampled by my unstoppable panzerhorse.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Punisher on January 12, 2011, 11:31:22 am
The current upkeep system is fine, you can upkeep ~25k worth of gear and still earn gold even if you always stay at x1. That's more than decent, you can get light mail armor + an elite weapon of choice.

In order to discourage leechers I think the two XP/gold gain systems should be combined. For example, lower the global xp/gold gain to 500xp/25gold per minute at x1 and add the old AoE XP/gold gain from the old version. This way people who actually fight and help their team win get full XP/gold while leechers get only half and maybe stop leeching.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Trout4711 on January 12, 2011, 11:32:51 am
I've never played in plate armor, but i wanted to get there eventually as part of my character growth. Now that option is no longer available. You don't understand what a role playing game is, as i said several times, go play native you will enjoy it alot more, instead of trying to make crpg a clone of native with a character you can make in 2 days (not really that much of a difference), and equipment based on wether you win or not.

So far so good - however my point was, that it is not possible to build a pure PvP game (which c-rpg is, like it or not) with character progression based on items that become overly powerful, unless there is some kind of restriction that limits their use. The reason is (as I said) that no player must be allowed to be all-powerful compared to other player, because in the mean every player has to win and loose as much as every other player.

If you allow overly powerful players, the game turns in to a giant pyramid scheme, where only the people at the top have fun.

And just making it harder to achieve uberness does not solve the problem, it will only prolong it.

You apply PvE-game logic to a PvP game.

Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: bruce on January 12, 2011, 11:37:16 am
Medium (upper medium, even, depending on class) gear is perfectly affordable. Of course, a gold buffer helps alleviate randomness - having 10-20K in the bank is good, so a really unlucky streak doesn't prevent you from using your gear.

For instance, with this:
- nordic fighter helm:  1775 g
- mail hauberk:           5481 g
- leather gloves:           289 g
- leather boots:            363 g
- Glaive:                      4656 g   
- Strong bow:             6580 g
- 2x Bodkin arrows:    2x 3074 g

total: 25,294 g

I'm making quite a bit of extra cash.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Ganon on January 12, 2011, 11:41:49 am
So far so good - however my point was, that it is not possible to build a pure PvP game (which c-rpg is, like it or not) with character progression based on items that become overly powerful, unless there is some kind of restriction that limits their use. The reason is (as I said) that no player must be allowed to be all-powerful compared to other player, because in the mean every player has to win and loose as much as every other player.

If you allow overly powerful players, the game turns in to a giant pyramid scheme, where only the people at the top have fun.

And just making it harder to achieve uberness does not solve the problem, it will only prolong it.

You apply PvE-game logic to a PvP game.

Well that is if you consider plate too powerful, it has a drawback (speed), and that is a balance problem and not a genre problem. In rpgs you have character progression and even special items, so a player can be powerful but everyone can eventually progress to get the same power (the game has to be fair, again not a genre problem). I'm not talking about pve or pvp at all, just about the game structure, if you want a pure fps, there's native already, no need to make a mod and then modify it to be a clone of native mode.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Jacko on January 12, 2011, 11:43:05 am
Stoopid leechers. Don't they get that spending 1k in armour and another 1k in a weapon they could be so much more effective (in surviving) and most of all, NOT BORED OUT OF THEIR MINDS, when playing.

Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Helrekkr on January 12, 2011, 11:44:43 am
You don't factor in the fact that leechers don't actually WANT to play. They just want the gold or xp. To that end, being naked makes perfect sense :P

I played roughly 6h yesterday using the same gear:

Light Strange Helmet   888
Light Strange Armor           1298
Light Strange Boots           182
Wisby Gauntlets           2424
Tempered Nodachi           7942 (pretty sure the price display here is wrong though)
------------------------------------------
Total                                 12734 (closer to 15k with the actual price for the nodachi)

I made ~20k gold in 6h. And I wasn't even trying to farm, I just enjoyed playing with that gear :D

You can easily help your team win with little investment and STILL farm gold.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Trout4711 on January 12, 2011, 11:47:43 am
Upkeep ruin the game, it's too expensive to maintain gear that it's oblige us, high lvl player, to play in very light armor if we want to save enough money to play our plate one day in the future. It's IMPOSSIBLE to upkeep plate armor+ good shield+ good weapon, even with x5 bonus. We NEED to save .

There is this nice little pay2play game called "World of Tanks" that's in semi-closed beta right now. The developers followed the same path by making the heaviest tanks so expensive that it is impossible to play them 24/7. You need to take out a cheaper tank once in a while to earn money.

It's the best way to ensure a long life for their game!
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Punisher on January 12, 2011, 11:50:01 am
You don't factor in the fact that leechers don't actually WANT to play. They just want the gold or xp. To that end, being naked makes perfect sense :P

I played roughly 6h yesterday using the same gear:

Light Strange Helmet   888
Light Strange Armor           1298
Light Strange Boots           182
Wisby Gauntlets           2424
Tempered Nodachi           7942 (pretty sure the price display here is wrong though)
------------------------------------------
Total                                 12734 (closer to 15k with the actual price for the nodachi)

I made ~20k gold in 6h. And I wasn't even trying to farm, I just enjoyed playing with that gear :D

You can easily help your team win with little investment and STILL farm gold.

Those are the 50% prices that you get for selling, real prices used for upkeep are x2. So you actually played with 25k worth of equipment and still earned money, exactly as I said in my previous post :)
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Helrekkr on January 12, 2011, 11:51:01 am
Those are the 50% prices that you get for selling, real prices used for upkeep are x2. So you actually played with 25k worth of equipment and still earned money, exactly as I said in my previous post :)

Oh right sorry, shouldn't have used the prices in my inventory :D
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Trout4711 on January 12, 2011, 11:56:22 am
Actually, you are mixing two points here:

Well that is if you consider plate too powerful, it has a drawback (speed), and that is a balance problem and not a genre problem.

This is true - there are certainly other ways to balance plate besides a prohibitive cost.

In rpgs you have character progression and even special items, so a player can be powerful but everyone can eventually progress to get the same power (the game has to be fair, again not a genre problem).

Well, no. That only works for games where all those powerful players play together on one team (e.g. against NPCs) and not against other human players.
Imagine some CRPG without the recent patch in a year of time. ALL players who are still playing the game reached max level and max items (because they are not competitive otherwise).

Now, a newbie joining would have to play for 30 levels without ANY chance to contribute anything to the fight. You think he will do so? I don't. There simply is no endless amount of fools that agree to be cannon-fodder for the in-game gods, unless those fools are computer-generated NPCs.

And don't fool yourself - every game going that route will earlier or later end up like this (probably earlier, because there are so many no-lifers out there).

I'm not talking about pve or pvp at all, just about the game structure, if you want a pure fps, there's native already, no need to make a mod and then modify it to be a clone of native mode.

You are talking about the game you imagined crpg to be - namely something like WoW. Well, it isn't (luckily) because chadz prefers a PvP game.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Ganon on January 12, 2011, 12:20:42 pm
I was not talking about pve or wow and i laugh at your weak attempt to derail the discussion. Actually i never played wow as well, you simply don't understand what a rpg is and want to impose your pure fps model to everyone else.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Trout4711 on January 12, 2011, 12:21:16 pm
I was not talking about pve or wow and i laugh at your weak attempt to derail the discussion. Actually i never played wow as well, you simply don't understand what a rpg is and want to impose your pure fps model to everyone else.

 :lol:

Did you even try to understand my point?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: rustyspoon on January 12, 2011, 03:55:16 pm
I've never played in plate armor, but i wanted to get there eventually as part of my character growth. Now that option is no longer available. You don't understand what a role playing game is, as i said several times, go play native you will enjoy it alot more, instead of trying to make crpg a clone of native with a character you can make in 2 days (not really that much of a difference), and equipment based on wether you win or not.

It's EASY to get enough money for plate. I had so much money laying around that I bought plate just because i didn't know what else to spend my money on. I never wear the stuff because I prefer light armor for the speed, but there you go. My standard gear for my main character is 27k. Even if I lose every round I make money. If I win a few rounds I make a shitload of money. It's so easy to make money with this patch.

I think the upkeep is also good in that in forces you to switch things up. How boring is it to use the same stuff all the time? Nowadays I try out random super-expensive weapons just because I can afford them. If I don't like it, I just get rid of it. I can make another 20k in a few hours anyway.

I just don't get this plate obsession. Plate is SLOW. You'll find you can be more effective in lighter armor anyway.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on January 12, 2011, 06:37:31 pm
How can u know for sure  if they are stupid?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: EricCire on January 12, 2011, 07:21:16 pm
Remove upkeep, go back to pre-patch xp/gold system, problem solved. Don't blame the players for following the rules.

Yeah, the we should go back to the old patch with the xp/gold system. Gold should be added for being close to the fight, and a little more gold (not much) for kills. This would be good for archers too.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Boss_Awesome on January 12, 2011, 07:59:38 pm
I didn't create this thread to argue about upkeep.  I think it works just fine and can easily make money with 40k+ in gear.  What i don't understand is still why leechers just sit around and make money?  Are they eventually gonna play the game?  This isn't WoW where you need to kill the monster to get gear to kill the monster.  This game is designed to be fun to play.  If you don't play to have fun then why play at all?
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: rustyspoon on January 12, 2011, 08:07:16 pm
I didn't create this thread to argue about upkeep.  I think it works just fine and can easily make money with 40k+ in gear.  What i don't understand is still why leechers just sit around and make money?  Are they eventually gonna play the game?  This isn't WoW where you need to kill the monster to get gear to kill the monster.  This game is designed to be fun to play.  If you don't play to have fun then why play at all?

I don't understand it either. If they're THAT worried about making money, they can still run around and be effective in cheap gear. They can make a decent amount of money running around in medium gear. There's even less of a reason to sit around and do nothing after the patch than before the patch. Before you had to keep close to the fighting. Now you can die wherever. Charging in and dying in a blaze of glory is great fun now as you don't get penalized for dying too quickly or being away from the fighting.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: RandomDude on January 12, 2011, 08:08:17 pm
i made a new char from scratch and have been playing it on and off for about a week i think

i wear a tunic over mail (36/7), mail mittens, khergit boots and weild a sword of war or flamberge usually and constantly make money

yesterday i bought Mail and Plate (50/18) and Mail boots and had about 3k gold left. Even after 10 rounds, some of them x1, i could still wear the armour but decided to switch when i got to 1-2k

Upkeep is not game breaking - not saying it cant be improved (how im not sure) but right now it's pretty ok.

If you can see no point in playing because you are already earning your x1 then i think you're missing the point too.

I have most fun when playing with people on ts, usually same faction but any1 is welcome to come on Fallen ts when they're playing warband.
Title: Re: Why are leechers so stupid?
Post by: Silent on January 12, 2011, 10:18:57 pm
Doesn't matter how big kdr you have, you end up with roughly average (1x+0.9*2x+0.8*3x+0.6*4x+0.5*5x)/5 = 2.1x multi per hour. At least in siege mode for me.