cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Waylit on June 12, 2011, 10:35:21 pm

Title: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Waylit on June 12, 2011, 10:35:21 pm
1) The cheesiest, most immersion breaking tactic, for me, is the backward jump.  I use it all the time with my pike, I see xbowmen and archers do it a lot too.  It's obvious that we need jumping, because there is no climbing obstacles.  But, jumping backwards really serves no real purpose, and just adds a cheesey fight tactic to polearms and archers (mainly).   I do not know if it is possible, but simply removing all jumping backwards, or maybe even in side to side, too, would solve some gameplay issues.   If you want to turn your back and jump away: good luck.  But no more jump back and pike to the face to escape a rush.  That's just kinda silly. 

2)  Is there any sort of swing bonus for linking opposing combos?  Like the overhead-stab link, or the right-to-left?  In my experience swinging shit around IRL, it is much easier for a scimitar user to say, turn his wrist after a slash from the right and then cut right across the face (while the sword and its inertia is still over on the left), then it is for him to bring the weapon all the way back to the right and slash again.  Same with overhead and stab: once the spear is down low, it is quick to stab up.  So if there is no speed bonus for doing this, then I think there should be, and the weapon speeds (or WPF speed bonus) be rebalanced to reflect this.

3)  If possible, Pikes should be given pike couching, which deals damage, based more on speed bonus than on the damage of the weapon, on the first enemy the tip of the pike touches.  So it would allow us to "pike press" guys into corners, because if they run at us, they will impale themselves on the pike!  It would also allow us to set the pikes for killing Cav.  Pike couching should be like horse couching, you press a button when moving or standing still and you enter Couch Mode.  If standing still, you crouch down and can turn, and the couch lasts until you move (then it has a recharge time).  If you Couch while moving forward, your speed is reduced to an absolute crawl, and the couch has a time limit (up to the wisdom of chadz, but I think 20 secs to give it a good holding time, but not making it a walking death trap).  The couch of course ends the moment the pike touches an enemy or friendly, and again: damage and penetration should be based more on the relative speed of the two characters, not the pierce of the pike.  I don't think this would be too overpowered (there would be lots of whiffing/chambering, and both of those would end the couch and start the recharge). Thoughts?
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: zagibu on June 13, 2011, 12:41:03 am
+3
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Kafein on June 13, 2011, 12:57:23 am
1) Doubt it is possible
2) Not needed really, probably a hell of coding and server load
3) Why not, Pikes were mainly used like that in formations afterall. But it could be abused (with roofs, through walls...)
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on June 13, 2011, 01:06:44 am
too long, i couldn't read  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: zagibu on June 13, 2011, 03:31:16 am
You only need to read the title. Or is that too long, as well?
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: owens on June 13, 2011, 05:34:34 am
i have a request get pikes off horses its bullshit.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: dontgothere on June 13, 2011, 11:31:31 am
I think jumping is fine the way it is; you don't describe WHAT "gameplay problems" it makes, just that you think it's not realistic.  I think it makes melee more interesting, and since it's purely defensive what's the harm?  Without athletics and light armor, you really can't jump that far in any direction, so it gives the higher-agi, "swashbuckling" types a tool to even things out against the higher-damage folks.  Seems reasonable.

Your second idea sounds like too much bother to code.

I think your last idea sounds okay though.  :)
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Waylit on June 13, 2011, 04:45:38 pm
1)  I run around in black armor with a pike and I jump juuuuussssttt fine, trust me.  Into, and out of, combat.   In Mount and Musket, jumping interrupts your attacks, so it is completely useless as a combat tactic, and I prefer this as it keeps the battles as Stab-and-Block and not Crazy-Jump-Turn-Stab-Combat.  I prefer to keep the fighting on the ground because I think it will lead to less gnarly polearm/2h spam.  The better system would really be to have stamina, which I believe has already been discussed at length.

2)  The reason for this is to add predictability to the fighting by incentivizing it...just like Physics does IRL.  If you've seen the show Deadliest Warrior about the Scottish Claymoreman, that guy is basically rotating the sword around its center of gravity, letting the blade swing, around and around, essentially cutting right to left.  It's fast, it's deadly, and it is the real life Spam, but for an experienced fighter it is also predictable. 
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: zagibu on June 14, 2011, 11:29:36 am
Maybe instead of removing jump-slash, make it that you can't turn anymore in the air?
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Joelturuz on June 14, 2011, 11:49:56 am
1) Never done this myself nor had any problem with others doing this. It'd stop those cool overhead attacks where you jump off from a roof on top of someone, so no thanks.
2) Agree with Kafein, not really needed.
3) This would be quite an interesting addition! Don't know if it's possible though.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: ArchonAlarion on June 14, 2011, 06:58:14 pm
Quote from: Joelturuz on June 14, 2011, 11:49:56 am
1) Never done this myself nor had any problem with others doing this. It'd stop those cool overhead attacks where you jump off from a roof on top of someone, so no thanks.

No, it would just stop jumping backwards/sideways, not jumping altogether.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Joelturuz on June 14, 2011, 07:08:56 pm
Quote from: ArchonAlarion on June 14, 2011, 06:58:14 pm
No, it would just stop jumping backwards/sideways, not jumping altogether.
I can't see the OP mention anything about stopping sideways jumping. Where'd that came from.

I don't really understand how that jumping hurts anyone. I have no problem with any kind of jumers in the middle of combat and usually they just kill themselves by doing that.
Ask yourselves is this such a big problem that it needs chadz's valuable coding time spent on strategus to stop backwards jumping.

Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Kato on June 14, 2011, 07:50:44 pm
Just no for removing backjump and sidejump.
This buff lancers on their f1 superspeed pony.
For strength build will by really hard to dodge couched lance. 

Couching pikes are interesting idea. Probably not easy to code and can change gameplay essentially.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Whiligelm on June 14, 2011, 10:54:43 pm
Quote from: Waylit on June 12, 2011, 10:35:21 pm
3)  If possible, Pikes should be given pike couching, which deals damage, based more on speed bonus than on the damage of the weapon, on the first enemy the tip of the pike touches.  So it would allow us to "pike press" guys into corners, because if they run at us, they will impale themselves on the pike!  It would also allow us to set the pikes for killing Cav.  Pike couching should be like horse couching, you press a button when moving or standing still and you enter Couch Mode.  If standing still, you crouch down and can turn, and the couch lasts until you move (then it has a recharge time).  If you Couch while moving forward, your speed is reduced to an absolute crawl, and the couch has a time limit (up to the wisdom of chadz, but I think 20 secs to give it a good holding time, but not making it a walking death trap).  The couch of course ends the moment the pike touches an enemy or friendly, and again: damage and penetration should be based more on the relative speed of the two characters, not the pierce of the pike.  I don't think this would be too overpowered (there would be lots of whiffing/chambering, and both of those would end the couch and start the recharge). Thoughts?

Another Idea I was going to suggest  :wink:
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 15, 2011, 11:35:54 am
the third idea is stupid, pikemen can be very effective in battle as pikes work atm very well...
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 15, 2011, 11:42:48 am
but i think stupid jumpers should be nerfed...arvchers keep running for exapmle and keep jumpshoot thousands of enemies ( :P ) also 1h cavs are often kiled by OP unrealistic jump slashers. 1h cav is almost useless against a 2h inf...i suggest that u cant attack,shoot,block while jumping as it is the case in vikingrs mod...this would make the game more realistic and reduce annoying jump fighting...
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Joelturuz on June 15, 2011, 02:12:59 pm
Why, we should make it so that you can't attack when you move while we're at it!
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: zagibu on June 15, 2011, 02:58:25 pm
No. But removing the ability to turn in the air would indeed remove most ridiculous combat situations. It wouldn't help against horse jump-slashers, but hey, if they are successful, the rider simply failed.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 19, 2011, 06:03:02 pm
did anyone of u every try to side slash while jumping? it will just look ridiccoulous when u hit the ground...the fact is in the air u cant side slash properly or keep ur bow charge/ur xbow aimed . u can only overhead slash or stab while jumping lol...why dont we make it that way?
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: zagibu on June 19, 2011, 11:19:47 pm
If possible, yes. Turning in the air should still be disabled, though.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 20, 2011, 07:37:08 am
+1 on the pike couching. I also think it would be cool if there were alt options for long spears vs short spears, as in running with the spear in couched position. Think japanese Yari charge so obviously not possible with a shield.

In relation to pike use I am pretty sure you get the speed bonus if you spear a moving target, unless chadez removed that from the game some how.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Siboire on June 21, 2011, 12:34:06 am
Quote from: Armbrust_Schtze on June 19, 2011, 06:03:02 pm
did anyone of u every try to side slash while jumping? it will just look ridiccoulous when u hit the ground...the fact is in the air u cant side slash properly or keep ur bow charge/ur xbow aimed . u can only overhead slash or stab while jumping lol...why dont we make it that way?


+1 im tired of bullshit ninja side-slash-lol-in-mid-air and those archer f**s that run and jump turn shoot yo ass. Only overheads and stabs should be allowed.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on June 21, 2011, 03:13:57 pm
Quote from: Joelturuz on June 15, 2011, 02:12:59 pm
Why, we should make it so that you can't attack when you move while we're at it!

somebody translate this?
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Mala on June 21, 2011, 04:11:33 pm
Sounds like sarcasm.
In other words, if you can not attack while jumping anymore, then you could abolish the attacks when you move as well.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: icejaff on June 22, 2011, 10:20:27 am
I like the ideas, they need to stop feinting and nerf jumping,  dont agree with the polearm couching tho, its how it is for a reason.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Dezilagel on June 22, 2011, 07:16:02 pm
Quote from: icejaff on June 22, 2011, 10:20:27 am
I like the ideas, they need to stop feinting and nerf jumping,  dont agree with the polearm couching tho, its how it is for a reason.

Stop trolling.

Jumping is part of combat, it is an element that is in no way op (you don't jump all the time in duels for a reason...), not exploitable, but provides an interesting alternative (jumping over sideswings is funny and unexpected, requires a great deal of prediction (he feints, ur screwed) and timing).

+ We have cool things like jumpslashing from roofs that would be impossible.

(click to show/hide)

I do agree jumpshooting is very annoying, but does it really make that much of a difference?


Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: ToxicKilla on June 23, 2011, 08:45:49 am
They should remove using bows/crossbows while jumping definately. Maybe even remove side slashes.
Pike couching sounds awesome! If only they would implement it.
Title: Re: Nerf jumping, change weapon swing speed based on previous atk, add pike couching
Post by: Erathsmus on June 23, 2011, 08:56:05 am
Quote from: zagibu on June 14, 2011, 11:29:36 am
Maybe instead of removing jump-slash, make it that you can't turn anymore in the air?

+1 This is a good suggestion.