cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Mallets on June 19, 2017, 11:18:41 pm

Title: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Mallets on June 19, 2017, 11:18:41 pm
Not sure if anyone even comes here anymore... but maybe I can promote new players to ask questions here... and maybe some folks will respond.  With that said, I do have a legitimate question.

Which Xbows are in the meta right now?  I wasn't really keeping up with the patches before cRPG died last year, so I'm not sure what folks are using nowadays.

Also, can someone list out a good WPF for each Xbow?  The other day, someone said 180 was good for regular Xbow.  But I'm not sure if that's correct or not.  And I'd love to know standard WPFs for all 5 Xbows... as I'm not sure which one I want to use.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Asheram on June 19, 2017, 11:28:56 pm
I have a +3 xbow to sell.😜
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Mallets on June 20, 2017, 02:03:03 am
Quote from: Asheram on June 19, 2017, 11:28:56 pm
I have a +3 xbow to sell.😜

Thanks, but got a +3 and an exchange.  Which is why I'm wanting to know which Xbow (or Xbows) are currently good to use... so I can exchange before it runs out.

But not sure what WPF to go for any of them.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Yeldur on June 20, 2017, 11:44:06 am
On pretty much all my Xbow builds I always go at least 170 WPF for it and then the rest goes into whatever stat I'm using for melee.
The most used crossbows will be the Heavy Crossbow and the Arbalest, the others I don't really see that much.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Ikarus on June 20, 2017, 12:25:56 pm
I got 143 WPF for my +3 Arbalest and I don´t need more because I don´t go for long-range shots. Long-range shots are something for archers, but for xbow they´re mostly a waste of time (unless the target stays perfectly still for a longer time OR you´re shooting cav which are ofc bigger targets)
I rather try to get closer and look for better targets instead

in general I´d say 150 wpf for arba, 170 for heavy. I don´t really play with other xbows so I can´t  make any recommondations there

I´d go for heavy xbow first, most people can´t stand the long reload time of arba
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: njames89 on June 20, 2017, 12:48:24 pm
I use the regular xbow as a backup to my 2h build to help do some extra damage before engaging and to help fight ranged. It is pretty great and I only use 41 wpf for it.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Nightingale on June 21, 2017, 01:30:45 pm
It all depends on how you plan to play the class in general?

If you are hybrid then obviously go with a lighter choice as melee will be the predominate aspect of your playstyle where you will need to sink less and less into each tier crossbow lower you choose to receive sufficient benefits.

If you are going for a more full on dedicated pew pewer you have many choices of playstyles to choose from.

Hunting xbow-Light xbow don't really adequately fill any niche.
Hunting does barely enough damage to even be considered a weapon at all. Good for almost nothing maybe make the enemy worry about being shot? idk.
Light xbow does a small sum of damage but can reload rapidly allowing the user to make full advantage of low investment/ high mobility. Also, a go-to for ranged cavalry.
Crossbow is a medium choice the go-to for moderate damage/moderate mobility tradeoff while still fully capable of long distance engagements. This weapon is utilized best by light/medium dedicated builds or hybrids.
Heavy is a heavier hitting crossbow with the trade-off of slightly lower mobility and higher investment requirements for long range capabilities. As reload time increases you will want to invest more into WPF to prevent missing shots which can mean life or death in almost any situation while using slower crossbows.
Arbalest is the hardest hitting crossbow that is on par with the Yew longbow and Higher end throwing builds in terms of damage output. Its trade-off is of course extremely low mobility and higher end investment if you want to compete with other long ranged builds like mine. Like the heavy, if you miss a shot with this crossbow and are in a position where the enemy can reach you; The chances of you being able to reload is very minimal. You'll find that most rounds you are not capable of going through all 7 steel bolts. Most likely the more aggressive you play the fewer shots you get off which lowers your overall potential for damage.

Staying too far away from teammates can also lead to not being able to reload and in most cases, it is just as wise to drop the arb+ bolts and regroup with the team as the weapon is dead weight if an enemy is tailing you.

I can't exactly recommend a build specifically for each weapon and intended playstyle as It's nearly impossible to predict exactly how you are wanting to play? But I don't think there is a person more fitting to answer this question that is still around.

I have used the same arb build for the 5 years I have been active and it changed only slightly as I reached higher levels.

Pre-destiny patch
at level 30
15-27
3 ps (Delaying death)
5 ath (Advisable minimal mobility investment) (Keeps you at pace with the team) (provides minimal combat mobility)
9 wm (dedication to xbow (Increase accuracy)
170 wpf in xbow (after armor deductions I had 150ish effective wpf)
77 wpf in 1h (Used only as a means of delaying my death for teammates to provide assistance)

Post-patch of destiny
at level 35
22-27
3ps
5 ath
9 wm
185 wpf in xbow
77 wpf in 1h
^ same reasons as above

As I got to be higher level I was able to fill out my build ending at

22-27
6 ps
9 ath
9 wm
185 wpf in xbow
77 in 1h

(With moderate armor (42 body armor) I am able to survive an arb shot; a longbow hit or some throwing weapons. As throwing is a hard counter for xbows you'll want to avoid them.) So in otherwords don't listen to the bs about ranged 1 hitting stuff as I don't even have ironflesh and am running with medium armor and I survive a hit just fine. Ironflesh is the most low reward skill sink as you choose higher tier xbows. (Surviving 1 more melee hit or one more ranged shot is not a good trade off for say ath or ps where you can increase mobility by a small fraction or do slightly more damage assisting you in being able to fend off single or even multiple enemies (+ reload once clear. Damage potental is a key thing. maximizing this factor = better play.
 Never advisable to reload in the open or in a visible location... minimize possible lines of visibility.)

If you copy paste my build I advise playing as I do and countering enemy range as that is what my build was dedicated to in both strategus and siege before I moved to battle.

Other than that Idk? experiment yourself and play the game!
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: njames89 on June 21, 2017, 01:39:21 pm
Crossbow nerd located  :lol:
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Nightingale on June 21, 2017, 01:46:59 pm
Quote from: njames89 on June 21, 2017, 01:39:21 pm
Crossbow nerd located  :lol:

as if anyone had any doubts but you can't deny James that I am qualified to answer this question lol
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: njames89 on June 21, 2017, 02:07:53 pm
Quote from: Nightingale on June 21, 2017, 01:46:59 pm
as if anyone had any doubts but you can't deny James that I am qualified to answer this question lol

Absolutely lol I was wondering when you would find this thread
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Silveredge on June 22, 2017, 12:58:33 am
I pretty much agree with Nightingale.  A lot of people don't understand that the accuracy goes up with the same wpf as you move to lower and lower crossbows.  It's kind of like the fluctuation with normal bows, when you add powerstrike, you need more wpf to have the same accuracy you did before you added the powerstrike.  It's like controlling raw power, the more power, the more wpf you need to control it.  So if you have mediocre wpf, you would be better off with a lower tier crossbow.  My thoughts on numbers are slightly different than Nightingale's, but Nightingale knows more about the hard numbers in the game.  I wouldn't listen to anyone else's post if I were you.

Summary: Higher tier crossbow = more wpf required for more accuracy/tighter crosshairs.  I own a Masterwork Crossbow, Masterwork Heavy Crossbow, and Masterwork Arbalest.  I also make use of them for different situations.

Crossbow: Better for a lower pop server, or if your team is getting destroyed.  You are able to get more shots off before being forced into melee.
Heavy Crossbow: Your team knows what a front line is and is actively delaying the enemy team,  giving you the time to destroy them with your heavier hitting crossbow.
Arbalest: Bring truckloads of tears and salt to anyone or anything you hit with your shot.  Usually mounted to the top of a Battleship.  Can also watch episodes of your favorite TV series between reloads.  Sometimes you only get to shoot it twice in a round.  Critical for the other team to counter you.

Crossbowmen are heavily dependent on their team to be effective ranged.  Be prepared to be effective in melee, that's why you can be...

Crossbows used to have a chance to penetrate shields...  pretty op.  I still think they should make crossbows have the 'Bonus against shield' flag...
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Kadeth on June 22, 2017, 01:34:11 am
kadeth submitted a poll to remove range from the game
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Taser on June 22, 2017, 04:08:59 am
I've always liked heavy xbow over arb because of the slight delay arb had for releasing bolts. Always threw me off so I just stuck with heavy. Arb is def better for tears but heavy xbow still packs a punch plus you can reload faster. Felt like it was a perfect middleman for me, power with an ok reload time.

Desire is definitely the expert here though in crossbows.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Nightingale on June 22, 2017, 05:07:04 am
Quote from: Silveredge on June 22, 2017, 12:58:33 am

I agree with silver's description as well though he needs to include that no matter how much damage a ranged weapon does it is always followed with tears.

Silver you say you disagree with my numbers slightly what do you mean because by what you said we seem to agree with what each xbow is good for.

as for taser; Yeah I recommend Heavy over arb for any new xbow users due to the fact of the delayed release mechanic. Though the trade off is minimal it is very noticable for anyone that has played with one or the other for as long as we have. I miss more with a heavy crossbow due to there not being a delayed release which is ironic since I suggest people start with a crossbow like heavy or normal. So they can get used to range playstyle. Arb has a lot of trade-offs that people ignore and its probably one of the most hated ranged weapons and the least understood.

Kadeth remove throwing pls.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Kadeth on June 22, 2017, 05:32:51 am
Quote from: Taser on June 22, 2017, 04:08:59 am
Desire is definitely the expert here though in crossbows.

desire was like 0-10 on the china server last night bro, check ur facts
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Nightingale on June 22, 2017, 06:07:13 am
Quote from: Kadeth on June 22, 2017, 05:32:51 am
desire was like 0-10 on the china server last night bro, check ur facts

I was using a stick  :lol:
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Mallets on June 23, 2017, 12:17:19 am
Thanks everyone for the replies!  Special thanks to Nightingale & Silveredge!  Great info!

I plan to play this character as mainly range.  Only engage in melee if I have to (I have other melee characters).  Sit behind the front line and pew pew away.

Think I'm enjoying the Heavy Xbow.  As Taser mentioend, it feels like the perfect middleman.  I want a little more punch the regular Xbow.  But Arb's reload time is so long.  Heavy Xbow has a nice all-around fell to it.

Mind you, I suck.  But last night I did go 8-2.  Had 3 headshots whiched helped.

At lvl 34 and have 170 WPF.  Thinking I'll increase it to 180 (as I have points to spend, but was saving them to find a nice WPF).

Does 180 WPF sound good for Heavy Xbow?  Or should I go 185 or 190?

Here's what my build will look like at lvl 35.  Not sure exactly how to distribute the WPF.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Mallets on June 23, 2017, 12:27:16 am
And one more quick question:  Does effective weight effect Xbows just like Archery & Throwing?  Or is it not a factor for Xbows?
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Nightingale on June 23, 2017, 07:41:50 am
Quote from: Mallets on June 23, 2017, 12:17:19 am
Thanks everyone for the replies!  Special thanks to Nightingale & Silveredge!  Great info!

I plan to play this character as mainly range.  Only engage in melee if I have to (I have other melee characters).  Sit behind the front line and pew pew away.

Think I'm enjoying the Heavy Xbow.  As Taser mentioend, it feels like the perfect middleman.  I want a little more punch the regular Xbow.  But Arb's reload time is so long.  Heavy Xbow has a nice all-around fell to it.

Mind you, I suck.  But last night I did go 8-2.  Had 3 headshots whiched helped.

At lvl 34 and have 170 WPF.  Thinking I'll increase it to 180 (as I have points to spend, but was saving them to find a nice WPF).

Does 180 WPF sound good for Heavy Xbow?  Or should I go 185 or 190?

Here's what my build will look like at lvl 35.  Not sure exactly how to distribute the WPF.
(click to show/hide)

Basically; 180 WPF is good for heavy xbow; though your effective weapon proficiency might be lower depending on how heavy your armor is. Which is deducted from your total wpf. So without knowing what armor you go with I can't really say 100% that you are fine with 180 but likely you will be fine... if that makes sense.
 IF you arent I would recommend reducing weight.

and yes Weight has a larger effect on xbows.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Ikarus on June 23, 2017, 09:30:20 am
one more thing: get a light head protection, heavy helmets have an effect on your accuracy
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: njames89 on June 23, 2017, 02:20:05 pm
Quote from: Ikarus on June 23, 2017, 09:30:20 am
one more thing: get a light head protection, heavy helmets have an effect on your accuracy

tbh I find transitional, sugarloaf and hourglass gauntlets are my preferred crossbow armour.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Mallets on June 23, 2017, 07:03:23 pm
Thanks for the feedbacks!  Keeping the armor light sense I'll play ranged from behind the lines.

Weight
Head:  .5
Body:  5.0
Hands:  .5
Feet:  .5

So even with the multipliers on head and hands, I won't have enough weight to lose any WPF.

So I'm going to try 180 and see how that goes.  If I feel I need more, I'll bump up to 185 or 190.  But a difference of 10 Xbow WPF would give me nearly 40 more 2-hand WPF (92 instead of 55).  Will probably stick with 180.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Ikarus on June 24, 2017, 12:52:16 pm
Quote from: Mallets on June 23, 2017, 07:03:23 pm
Weight
Head:  .5
Body:  5.0
Hands:  .5
Feet:  .5

what I´ve heard is that you don´t get any penalties if you stay under 10 Weight overall, so you can add up a little bit here,  I f.e. got an armor with 9,1 weight

hot tip: I prefer wearing +3 leather gloves, not only do they get +4 Armor in total, they also loose all their weight when you heirloom them
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Mallets on June 25, 2017, 01:46:10 am
Quote from: Ikarus on June 24, 2017, 12:52:16 pm
what I´ve heard is that you don´t get any penalties if you stay under 10 Weight overall, so you can add up a little bit here,  I f.e. got an armor with 9,1 weight

hot tip: I prefer wearing +3 leather gloves, not only do they get +4 Armor in total, they also loose all their weight when you heirloom them
(click to show/hide)

Thanks for the tips!  I actually know how effective weight works.  Head armor is x2.  And hand armor weight is x4.  If I'm remembering correclty.

I knew that it affected archery & throwing.  Just couldn't remember if it affected Xbows.  I thought it did.  Just wasn't sure.  Thought about going heavy armor.  But sticking with what I got.  Looking good is most important!   :)
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: McKli_PL on June 25, 2017, 03:36:01 am
Quote from: njames89 on June 23, 2017, 02:20:05 pm
tbh I find transitional, sugarloaf and hourglass gauntlets are my preferred crossbow armour.
true, best xbow build in crpg was 27/21 9ps,7ath, 170wpf in 1hand +xbow :)
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Nightingale on June 26, 2017, 10:41:39 am
Quote from: Mallets on June 25, 2017, 01:46:10 am
Thanks for the tips!  I actually know how effective weight works.  Head armor is x2.  And hand armor weight is x4.  If I'm remembering correclty.

I knew that it affected archery & throwing.  Just couldn't remember if it affected Xbows.  I thought it did.  Just wasn't sure.  Thought about going heavy armor.  But sticking with what I got.  Looking good is most important!   :)

Yeah that will work fine. You could stand to improve your armor/weight/wpf ratio but cRPG is about those stylish fashion choices- to hell with the penalties.
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: McKli_PL on June 29, 2017, 06:37:18 pm
Quote from: Nightingale on June 26, 2017, 10:41:39 am
penalties
in crpg? I never heard of them :D
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Rico on December 01, 2017, 11:23:43 pm
pfff NA talk

in EU we minmax with excel sheets

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Which Xbow? WPF?
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on December 01, 2017, 11:45:14 pm
use the arbalest or go home