cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mushy on May 30, 2011, 12:13:35 am

Title: HA Build?
Post by: Mushy on May 30, 2011, 12:13:35 am
Build I plan on er *cough* looking at, so hold your troll hate for a little while longer.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 12
Agility: 24

Hit points: 53

Converted: 2

Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 4
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 4
Power Draw: 4
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8

One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 173
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1

Never made a HA build before, so I dunno if this is sufficient or  not
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Miley on May 30, 2011, 12:54:10 am
I have a tried a build similar to that. Khergit Bow gets tiring. You may want to try a different build with a Strong Bow. The extra damage definitely helps. If you'd like a suggestion, you can PM me.

Tip: Not much difference between 3 and 4 HA, in my opinion.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Mushy on May 30, 2011, 12:57:45 am
Well, as I said, never made a HA build before.

I think the khergit bow will fit my play style well tbh, I don't plan on doing a lot of damage, I plan on being a support type player, distracting the enemy to allow my team mates top get a few hits in. For this I would need speed and accuracy so Khergit bow seems just about right ;)
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Malaclypse on May 30, 2011, 01:07:59 am
My alt really digs the Khergit Bow, though she doesn't get kills like Miley does. Once I get it to gen 2, I'm going horse archer. Need to drum up base funds in the first gen.

I was planning on a build similar to this. Probably wouldn't use the IF personally, but that's me. Seems solid enough.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: kongxinga on May 30, 2011, 01:10:31 am
3-4 HA is a huge difference. At 3 HA you are a trot shooter. AKA an archer on a horse. You can't act as fire support for friendly cavalry, and cant outshoot horsearchers in a moving firefight. even worse, you can't pin down enemy foot archers (note plural) by dodging and shooting at the same time while they are forced to stay still to even hope to hit you. If you think horse archery is an archer that can quickly redeploy, then HA 3 is ok. If you even want to try shooting while moving, HA 4 is minimum.

Since the level of HA is a defining factor, I wonder why you went for a khergit bow, while adding points to IF of all things. HA 4 gives you a strongbow, HA 5 forces you to use a nomad bow. HA 3 is a trot shooter.

Having used both builds, here are the differences. With nomad bow, you shoot like a dream on horse. Scoring horse headshots versus enemy cav is something you can do consistently, lag willing. With luck you can even go for moving headshots versus enemy cav, esepcially those that chase you. Unfortunately base damage is very low, so the only kills will be the ones already wounded, or those you get from headshots. Fortunately, you can dehorse the entire cavalry arm since most horses have comparatively low armour. Any armour kills this build. in fact, around 20k of armour is enough to ignore your shots, unless you gallop towards the enemy while he is running towards you. Given that you can spend around 30k for this HA equipment, it is pretty bad news to see anyone with armour, let alone the people with full lordly plate. So concentrate on sniping archers from their blindsides, pinning them if they see you, and dehorsing and killing cav. Don't bother too much with tin cans.

HA 4 with strongbow is not as good in cav shootouts. I find headshots to be a lot more luck based than HA 5, so I tend to aim in a general area rather than bothering for head hits. However, you can actually start staggering tincans with this build, and can prance around shooting stationary foot archers from a good distance, which is more to your advantage since you can dodge a lot more than he can. I myself get slightly more kills using HA 4, but I feel I do less for the team, since I am unable to dehorse as many enemy cav. The fast firing nomad makes cav shootouts easier as you can quickly adjust to the fly, although strongbow can often do 2 hit horse kill.

As the devs in their infinite wisdom, have been following a trend in reducing ammo, in effect buffing 2 hands, it seems the HA 4 build will allow greater damage potential, since you can expect to miss alot when shooting while moving.

Horse archers are very fun to play as they really bring the combined to combined arms, adding yet another threat dimension that the enemy team has to deal with. Plus unparalleled kiting potential, and the ability to cause a lot of misdirected anger. Plus the look on the pikemen's faces when they brace for friendly melee cav, then get hit by you is priceless.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Miley on May 30, 2011, 01:13:07 am
Not really going to help if you're the last one on your team against plate armor! I really advise going with the Strong Bow. It's not much help to your team if you can't take a group of horses before they get you. You'll be surprised how many arrows it takes to kill a peasant.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Miley on May 30, 2011, 01:15:49 am
3-4 HA is a huge difference. At 3 HA you are a trot shooter. AKA an archer on a horse. You can't act as fire support for friendly cavalry, and cant outshoot horsearchers in a moving firefight. even worse, you can't pin down enemy foot archers (note plural) by dodging and shooting at the same time while they are forced to stay still to even hope to hit you. If you think horse archery is an archer that can quickly redeploy, then HA 3 is ok. If you even want to try shooting while moving, HA 4 is minimum.

Since the level of HA is a defining factor, I wonder why you went for a khergit bow, while adding points to IF of all things. HA 4 gives you a strongbow, HA 5 forces you to use a nomad bow. HA 3 is a trot shooter.

Having used both builds, here are the differences. With nomad bow, you shoot like a dream on horse. Scoring horse headshots versus enemy cav is something you can do consistently, lag willing. With luck you can even go for moving headshots versus enemy cav, esepcially those that chase you. Unfortunately base damage is very low, so the only kills will be the ones already wounded, or those you get from headshots. Fortunately, you can dehorse the entire cavalry arm since most horses have comparatively low armour. Any armour kills this build. in fact, around 20k of armour is enough to ignore your shots, unless you gallop towards the enemy while he is running towards you. Given that you can spend around 30k for this HA equipment, it is pretty bad news to see anyone with armour, let alone the people with full lordly plate. So concentrate on sniping archers from their blindsides, pinning them if they see you, and dehorsing and killing cav. Don't bother too much with tin cans.

HA 4 with strongbow is not as good in cav shootouts. I find headshots to be a lot more luck based than HA 5, so I tend to aim in a general area rather than bothering for head hits. However, you can actually start staggering tincans with this build, and can prance around shooting stationary foot archers from a good distance, which is more to your advantage since you can dodge a lot more than he can. I myself get slightly more kills using HA 4, but I feel I do less for the team, since I am unable to dehorse as many enemy cav. The fast firing nomad makes cav shootouts easier as you can quickly adjust to the fly, although strongbow can often do 2 hit horse kill.

As the devs in their infinite wisdom, have been following a trend in reducing ammo, in effect buffing 2 hands, it seems the HA 4 build will allow greater damage potential, since you can expect to miss alot when shooting while moving.

I've been a horse archer for a very long time. I don't see much difference between 3 and 4. There is a little difference, but a level 3 horse archer will do just as well as a level 4 horse archer. I know I do fine taking down other horses with 3 HA.

Note: I use a Mamluk horse most of the time. I don't usually aim for archers as my first priority, but I instead aim at getting the cavalry down.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: kongxinga on May 30, 2011, 01:22:50 am
Horses are my top priority too. That's what fire support for friendly cav is. Ride with friendly cav to the cav furball to dehorse people, let melee cav take the downers.

But you got to have something to shoot at once you let your team achieve total cavalry superiority. Archers are a good secondary, since tin cans are hard to damage, and are often meleeing your team, forcing you to stop shoot, or risk hitting friendlies. Plus you are often the only class that can ride around and hit roof campers from behind.

It was horrible for me at HA3, but the mamluk is slow, so I think accuracy loss is lower, so you might be able to manage. Trying to chase and kill enemy cav at top speeds was a pain with HA 3. Not being able to act as mobile fire support for friendly cav was a killer for me regarding HA 3. Although if your team is doing well enough that you can afford to go mamluk (immunity from being dehorsed by HA) you can play blindfolded and win. How are you able to afford an mamluke most of the time?

I do agree HA are horse killers extraordinaire. So much for the claim that horses have no natural predators.

PS. Have you figured out why arrows sometimes seem to curve around? Is this just an visual artifact? Or is it some function of moving the reticule and/or moving the horse + randomization. I had an arrow curve around a shielder to hit the pikeman behind him, although I blame HA4 , since with HA5 generations the curving did not occur as much.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Gurnisson on May 30, 2011, 01:28:41 am
(click to show/hide)

Best one possible, in my opinion.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Leesin on May 30, 2011, 02:22:09 am
(click to show/hide)

Best one possible, in my opinion.

This is my exact HA build, that's if you want a pure HA, you can obviously differ from this build but there IS a noticeable between HA 3 and HA 4 especially with 173 WPF regardless of what anyone says, I have used it enough to see the difference. There are HA that like different builds, so they can melee better or atleast archer on foot better if they get dehorsed, but if you want a pure HA build that is the one and I personally enjoy it alot when I play it.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: EponiCo on May 30, 2011, 02:47:22 am
You can do well with HA 3, though it is really a trot archer. But if you are using one of the heavy maneuver horses (steppe is good enough you don't need high speed) and always slow down and speed up and weave around and time your shots so that they come out when you are at your slowest point you have good enough accuracy to win many HA fights. Against nonranged cavalry you do the same, though you have to get them while you are slow again. There's little point in chasing someone over the field, though if you position yourself correctly you can usually shoot someone on the pass and then retreat into safety again or have him follow you.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on May 30, 2011, 03:52:33 am
One of my (many) alts is a HA, and Gurnisson's suggested build will most likely be the one I shoot for: pure HA build, with points only in those stats which are necessary for HA. PD, WPF, Riding, and HA.

I have yet to get to 4HA points, however, and am currently rocking 3 HA. I am more than capable of holding my own against my enenmies with 3 HA, however, as others have said, it is definitly a trot build. You cannot gallop and shoot, unless you're right on top of your target. Of course, being a HA, you are more than capable of getting very close to your target without fear of dieing, for you are on a horse--bump a bitch.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Stylin_ATS on May 30, 2011, 05:56:01 am
I've been a horse archer for a very long time. I don't see much difference between 3 and 4. There is a little difference, but a level 3 horse archer will do just as well as a level 4 horse archer. I know I do fine taking down other horses with 3 HA.

Note: I use a Mamluk horse most of the time. I don't usually aim for archers as my first priority, but I instead aim at getting the cavalry down.

I have been a HA for a long time as well, and there is a HUGE difference between 3 and 4. If you're happy with just taking down horses then just get 3 and be mediocre like most other HAs. If you actually want to rack up some kills and have more fun go 4, I'd also reccomend doing 15/24, no athletics, no ps, all wpf in archery. If you're going to be a HA do it right yo!
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Qilidj_Arslan on May 30, 2011, 06:03:26 am
Level 31
Strength    14    
Agility    24    

Polearm    107    
Archery    152    

Iron Flesh    0    
Power Strike    4    
Shield    0    
Athletics    0    
Riding    8    
Horse Archery    4    
Power Draw    4    
Power Throw    0    
Weapon Master    8

I find this build to be pleasant. With 8 riding, a rouncey is not so bad. You don't need to shoot and run all day so horse archery doesn't become boring. I can double up as a lancer very effectively.    You have to drop the heavy lance, but if you drop it near a landmark, you can recover it later. Getting 5 PD at level 32. But if dehorse, you become a peasant.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: POOPHAMMER on May 30, 2011, 06:06:33 am
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

Strength: 15
Agility: 24
Hit points: 50
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 0
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 7
Horse Archery: 4
Power Draw: 5
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 164
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: kongxinga on May 30, 2011, 03:58:26 pm
Pretty much agree with most what is said here. HA is very points intensive, so you must go pure or be an absolute laughing stock. I always cringe when I see athletics or PS or even IF in HA builds. Splitting wpf also seems pretty unwise.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: PanPan on May 30, 2011, 07:44:34 pm
So I tried this build on a ''Skip the Fun'' - Char:
   
    Strength: 15
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 50

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 3
    Riding: 6
    Horse Archery: 3
    Power Draw: 5
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 164
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

imo is 164 Archery enough.
And when you are tired of Horse Archery you can buy a lance and kill guys.
But the problem is the pole skill.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Riddaren on May 30, 2011, 08:33:19 pm
(click to show/hide)

Best one possible, in my opinion.

I agree. I'm going for this with my alt, which is currently at level 27.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Kharn on June 02, 2011, 08:22:41 pm
Game code does not take into account the movement speed of your horse for ranged attacks.
This includes both throwing and archery.

The damage is based on the delta speed between projectile and the target. Riding away or towards does not matter, only their movement matters.
Title: Re: HA Build?
Post by: Cris on June 02, 2011, 09:04:30 pm
Drop anything that is not HA related and get 15-24

HA4 and PD5

For level 30 imo you should have:

wpp 172 (max)
HA4
Riding 6
PD5
WM8


WPP and HA makes all the difference if you plan on being a porper HA - shooting at speed - If you just want to ride, stop, shoot, ride, stop shoot and so on, then make a hybrid with melee :P