cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 25, 2016, 05:30:57 pm

Title: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 25, 2016, 05:30:57 pm
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Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Tom Cruise on April 25, 2016, 05:59:56 pm
Immigration should be a very thorough and careful system. You can't just let everyone in all willy nilly. Not only because the meanie face terrorists that send their agents over with refugees, but Immigrants need to be vetted for diseases, have backround checks, get proper ID, etc. Mass immigration, especially illegally, literally cripples countries economies and society. Look at countries like Sweden, Denmark, and other bearded, viking countries.

 

Translate the page unless you're a viking.
http://www.altinget.dk/artikel/hoejere-kriminalitetsrate-hos-muslimske-grupper (http://www.altinget.dk/artikel/hoejere-kriminalitetsrate-hos-muslimske-grupper)
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on April 25, 2016, 06:07:25 pm
I think the U.N needs to come together and show its worth. U.N mandated safe zones, not NATO ones. U.N mandated refugee camps, not Turkish, Jordanian, Lebanese, Syrian ones. A collective effort on the part of the U.N to filter out who is and who isn't actually a war refugee, offer accomodation, support and safety to those who are, deport those who are not. This U.N mandate would need the backing and co-operation of all permanent members of the U.N security council and any country host to its efforts.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 25, 2016, 06:33:03 pm
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Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Angantyr on April 25, 2016, 06:45:48 pm
Some numbers on fundamentalism and radicalization among Muslim immigrants and their descendents in Europe:

The British think tank Policy Exchange did a survey based on more than 1.000 Muslim respondents. Of these 37% of the 16-24 year olds wanted to live with Sharia law instead of British law, where 17% above the age of 55 had the same wish. At the same time 36% of the young group thought that apostates (Muslims leaving Islam), should be punished by death, while the number was 19% for the older group.

The newest survey from Great Britain, done by the market research consultancy ComRes for the BBC in 2015 after the armed attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris, showed that 20% of the Muslim respondents found Western society incompatible with Islam, and that 27% had a certain sympathy for the motive behind the attack on the satirical magazine - that's more than every fourth - and that 32% understood motives behind attacks in the name of Islam.

Similarly, Danish surveys from 2009 to 2015 (made by the analytical institute Capacent for the Danish Broadcasting Corporation and by Wilke for the Jylands Posten newspaper) documented a rise in the amount of Muslim citizens - almost 4 out of 10 - of the opinion that the Quran should replace or be included in the secular legislation in the country.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Westwood on April 25, 2016, 07:01:08 pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-europes-migrant-crisis-became-an-opportunity-for-isis/2016/04/21/ec8a7231-062d-4185-bb27-cc7295d35415_story.html
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: LordBerenger on April 25, 2016, 07:19:37 pm
Quote from: Angantyr on April 25, 2016, 06:45:48 pm
Some numbers on fundamentalism and radicalization among Muslim immigrants and their descendents in Europe:

The British think tank Policy Exchange did a survey based on more than 1.000 Muslim respondents. Of these 37% of the 16-24 year olds wanted to live with Sharia law instead of British law, where 17% above the age of 55 had the same wish. At the same time 36% of the young group thought that apostates (Muslims leaving Islam), should be punished by death, while the number was 19% for the older group.

The newest survey from Great Britain, done by the market research consultancy ComRes for the BBC in 2015 after the armed attack on Charlie Hebdo in Paris, showed that 20% of the Muslim respondents found Western society incompatible with Islam, and that 27% had a certain sympathy for the motive behind the attack on the satirical magazine - that's more than every fourth - and that 32% understood motives behind attacks in the name of Islam.

Similarly, Danish surveys from 2009 to 2015 (made by the analytical institute Capacent for the Danish Broadcasting Corporation and by Wilke for the Jylands Posten newspaper) documented a rise in the amount of Muslim citizens - almost 4 out of 10 - of the opinion that the Quran should replace or be included in the secular legislation in the country.

Yet there's only around 4% of the Danish population who are muslims. And those surveys weren't done obviously by every single one of the muslims living in Demnark.

On a sidenote, I've heard some funny and ridiculous claims by certain far righters, for example that the ''moooslims are almost going to be the majority in the western nations soon!!!11! ''. So ridiculous and so far from the truth when in most western nations they don't even comprise 1/10th of the population.

Their grandkids and great grandkids will be westernized in due time I believe. It's just that 1st generation immigrants might still have that non-western mentality.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Angantyr on April 25, 2016, 07:30:58 pm
@Berenger, the above posted surveys show that descendants are not better integrated than the first generation, but worse. Meaning the group of people believing in fundamentalist and radical Islam is growing. This is a well-known fact in sociology and studies of religion, that the young generation are turning more towards their roots, especially second and third generation immigrants, who feel burdened by identity loss. Especially if the number of immigrants are allowed to be so high that we see the emergence of self-perpetuating parallel societies in certain areas, as we have.

Also, your criticism of statistics is a general one. I can only say that most everyone, including most of the sciences, rely to a high degree on statistical data, and that a multitude of surveys demonstrate the same trends.


A survey dealing with other parts of Europe.

The German research institute WZB in cooperation with the Dutch sociologist Ruud Koopmans made in December 2013 a survey based on 9.000 European Muslims with Turkish or Morrocan backgground in Germany, France, Holland, Belgium, Austria and Sweden. When presented with a series of statements, 60% of the respondents agreed that 'all Muslims must return to the roots of Islam', 75% that 'there is only 1 interpretation of the Quran, which all Muslims must adhere to', and 65% that 'religious rules are more important than secular laws'. 44% of the respondents declared themselves in agreement with all three statements.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Snufalufagus on April 25, 2016, 08:37:08 pm
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 25, 2016, 08:56:02 pm
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Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: LordBerenger on April 25, 2016, 08:59:55 pm
Quote from: Angantyr on April 25, 2016, 07:30:58 pm
@Berenger, the above posted surveys show that descendants are not better integrated than the first generation, but worse. Meaning the group of people believing in fundamentalist and radical Islam is growing. This is a well-known fact in sociology and studies of religion, that the young generation are turning more towards their roots, especially second and third generation immigrants, who feel burdened by identity loss. Especially if the number of immigrants are allowed to be so high that we see the emergence of self-perpetuating parallel societies in certain areas, as we have.


Your research doesn't mention whether those teens are immigrants or not.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on April 27, 2016, 12:22:17 pm
Talking about survey and statistics critics.... I think crpg community might be a biaised sample...

I think it's hard to deny the result of the survey about GB, there is a big problem with muslims there and blinding ourselves will not help. On the other hand, I wouldn't generalise the "the back to roots" trend, it all depends of the environment. If muslims live only among muslims ofc they will not integrate. While if the community are mixed up and people receive a good education, with time the immigrants can get integrated.

Most of the second generation muslims in my city are not practising anymore and I believe that most of their children will not even believe anymore. Already some of my muslim friends have lost their faith, probably because of a lesser pressure due the absence of a strong muslim community and because of school and science teaching.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on April 27, 2016, 01:03:51 pm
Did the survey for you dude. Good luck with the dissertation.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Kirman on April 27, 2016, 01:45:36 pm
Would it be helpfull if i do the survey as a non-member country?
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on April 27, 2016, 02:25:52 pm
Quote from: SirCymro_Crusader on April 25, 2016, 06:33:03 pm
Problem with the UN security council is you have UK, France, Russia, US and China. Russian and US are never going to agree, China vetos most things and the UK and France are allied to US so feel 'obliged' to go with their ruling. Nothing ever gets decided through the security council

Yes that is one of the problems with the UNSC, but that problem is more likely to arise when the national interests of either are threatened by the other. In this case tackling the refugee crisis would be a humanitarian effort that could be sanctioned by the five permanent members of the UNSC, some of the most capable nations on earth. It is to an extent a security matter that threatens all members, more so the Western states than Russia and China but it's in all of their interests to be able to vet and gather information from militants and potential militants hidden amongst the refugee flows. Some of the refugees are actually radical militants whos intention it is to enter Europe by exploiting the refugee crisis, militants whom not only pose a direct threat to all memebers of the UNSC but may also have links to terror cells in each of their nations and information is key when tackling global terrorism.

Apart from the obvious security concerns it would offer all members involved an opportunity to score cheap political brownie points by supporting a united, UN mandated humanitarian and security effort. Plus it would also lend much needed credibility to the U.N as some believe it's become a benign entity headed the same way as the League of Nations, consigned to history.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Angantyr on April 27, 2016, 05:00:57 pm
@Heskey, of course age plays a role as do other factors like political polarization and global jihad etc. I thought it self-evident. But many of the the first generation also actually fled some of the thoughts their offspring who have no memory of life in the ancestral homeland are now embracing.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Angantyr on April 27, 2016, 06:16:38 pm
Sure. But look at the data for other age groups or European Muslims in general. Though smaller than among the specifically younger respondent group (which also include women btw.) it's alarmingly high numbers.
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 28, 2016, 08:05:25 pm
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Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Osiris on April 28, 2016, 09:39:16 pm
can you post a selection of interesting answers? :P
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 28, 2016, 11:22:51 pm
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Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 29, 2016, 01:45:23 pm
Well 45 pages later and bleeding fingertips I've managed to submit my final copies so once again folk appreciate the help
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: karasu on April 29, 2016, 03:00:55 pm
No problem. Gibe lumz
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Molly on April 29, 2016, 04:36:00 pm
Quote from: SirCymro_Crusader on April 29, 2016, 01:45:23 pm
Well 45 pages later and bleeding fingertips I've managed to submit my final copies so once again folk appreciate the help
45 pages?
What kind of 'dissertation' is this?
Or are we actually talking Bachelor/Master Thesis?

Then again, you're Welsh... *shrugs*
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: Kalp on April 29, 2016, 06:14:13 pm
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2016, 04:36:00 pm
45 pages?
What kind of 'dissertation' is this?
Or are we actually talking Bachelor/Master Thesis?

Then again, you're Welsh... *shrugs*

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Refugee Crisis (Survey)
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on April 29, 2016, 08:23:20 pm
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