cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Simon. on March 08, 2016, 10:55:40 pm

Title: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Simon. on March 08, 2016, 10:55:40 pm
   Impersonation is by definition the act of pretending to be someone that you are not. I was recently banned for "Impersonation" however using a similar name to someone does not fit the definition of pretending to be them. If someone were to ask me while I'm in game as "King_James_of_Tripoli" if I am the "real" James I always responded with something like no or no I'm King James of Tripoli, not Acre. So that brings up the question, does an admin who I am "impersonating" have the right to ban me for having a similar name? No. I do not think they do. Pretty much anyone you ask will say that we were not impersonating, and that when asked if we were the "real" ones we always responded with the simple answer no, and made it clear we were not Acre.

They actually were very specific in chat that they were not Acre. They said repeatedly they were from PW and that they had not affiliation to Acre. Yes they did use your names, but to parody ya'll, not to impersonate.

Can you really copyright/trademark the name "james" in crpg? Strange times we live in...



To sum this up, were we really impersonating? In my opinion I do not believe so, however if you think otherwise feel free to explain why you feel like that.
   
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Penitent on March 08, 2016, 10:57:37 pm
We have people posting cheats in the main forum, and encouraging everyone to use it -- he gets a warning.

We have someone using a similar name as someone else and he gets a ban.

What is the world coming to?  Crpg -- what have you become...





Edit: to be fair, the current "cheater's" fate is being discussed by admins.  How much discussion did this ban get?
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: W0LF on March 08, 2016, 10:58:44 pm
I like how other admins saw it as fine but, James sees it fit for a ban.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Duster on March 08, 2016, 11:07:03 pm
This seems like a pretty clear-cut case of admin abuse in my opinion. The guys doing this were obviously not impersonating acre players, but the joke got under James' and acre's skin so he used his power to make them stop.

When "Zlots" was banned, the ban made sense. The impersonation was obviously done to try and get the real zlots banned. In this case, however, James is working against the spirit of the rule because he was upset. I, and many other crpg players, would like to see this case reviewed as well as James' adminship.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Torben on March 08, 2016, 11:12:25 pm
wait what, james banned james? 
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: mcdeath on March 08, 2016, 11:18:08 pm
If they were really trying to play like the members of Acre they were impersonating then they would have been on the bottom of the scoreboard every map.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Moncho on March 08, 2016, 11:19:04 pm
wait what, james banned james?
If only...
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on March 08, 2016, 11:24:20 pm
Yeah, I ain't down with this.

I mean shit, it ain't even CLOSE to recent impersonation bans or cases in history past. Like, Arclegos got a ban for copying Daruvian's name with the classic o-0 thing. Some motherfucker got banned for impersonating Zlotz in the same manner.

This motherfucker here made a pretty funny, albeit REALLY confusing (especially to those not sober during its posting) meme on the forums and did nothing aside from re-use "King James".

Dog, I should be able to make my name as King_James_Taintrider if I jolly well want to. My middle name's James, and I bet you ain't even got it in your full name!

Edit: Renamed STF to New_King_James_Version in solidarity

Oh also view my signature for an appropriate explanation of events taking place
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Artyem on March 08, 2016, 11:35:34 pm
I guess I'll jump in now.

Assuming you had only taken James' name, I probably wouldn't have even considered it impersonation.  However, there are several alts with the names of Acre members and they've all been seen in-game, and James has had to clarify several times that they are not actual Acre members.

W0LF has Knight_Chumley_of_Tripoli and Knight_Brutus_of_Tripoli
Sitvek has Marshal_Joan_of_Tripoli
Simon has King_James_of_Tripoli
Blackpanda has Viceroy_Mathew_of_Tripoli
Tristan has Prince_Mcsanders_of_Tripoli
Ufoinsky has Duke_Bauer_of_Tripoli
(there was also an Axeman character, but they changed their name)

Whether intended to be a joke or not, you're literally just ripping the names from one clan and throwing a different set of tags on them.  Did you have permission from them to do that?  Apparently not, and that's ultimately what matters in a case like this.

While your intent may not be malicious, it's still technically impersonation and you are expected to change your name.  Nobody should even need to be banned over this, it's common sense, which is the golden rule.  Change your names and that'll be the end of it.

I like how other admins saw it as fine but, James sees it fit for a ban.

This is incorrect, HungryNBroke and myself both agreed on forced name changes before James even took action.

I mean shit, it ain't even CLOSE to recent impersonation bans or cases in history past. Like, Arclegos got a ban for copying Daruvian's name with the classic o-0 thing. Some motherfucker got banned for impersonating Zlotz in the same manner.

You're right, it isn't the same situation at all.  I don't think that anybody should be banned over this, and I certainly wouldn't put down anything longer than an hour just to see a name change put through.  James himself agrees with me on that, and as far as I know that's all that has happened so far.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Simon. on March 08, 2016, 11:37:56 pm
I guess I'll jump in now.

Assuming you had only taken James' name, I probably wouldn't have even considered it impersonation.  However, there are several alts with the names of Acre members and they've all been seen in-game, and James has had to clarify several times that they are not actual Acre members.

W0LF has Knight_Chumley_of_Tripoli and Knight_Brutus_of_Tripoli
Sitvek has Marshal_Joan_of_Tripoli
Simon has King_James_of_Tripoli
Blackpanda has Viceroy_Mathew_of_Tripoli
Tristan has Prince_Mcsanders_of_Tripoli
Ufoinsky has Duke_Bauer_of_Tripoli
(there was also an Axeman character, but they changed their name)

Whether intended to be a joke or not, you're literally just ripping the names from one clan and throwing a different set of tags on them.  Did you have permission from them to do that?  Apparently not, and that's ultimately what matters in a case like this.

While your intent may not be malicious, it's still technically impersonation and you are expected to change your name.  Nobody should even need to be banned over this, it's common sense, which is the golden rule.  Change your names and that'll be the end of it.

This is incorrect, HungryNBroke and myself both agreed on forced name changes before James even took action.

W0LF was on just a few minutes ago as Chumley and James didn't say anything. I see this as more of James being angry that someone is using his name since he clearly doesn't care if they use Chumley's. Other than W0LF, myself, and Sitvek last night I don't think any of the others have even been ingame after the first day we did it either. As I quoted in the original post, we were VERY specific that we were not Acre. Not once did we say we were associated with them in anyway, although the names were the same the first day after james threatened to ban me, most of them changed the spelling. As well as Bauer doesn't even play anymore so that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: W0LF on March 08, 2016, 11:45:49 pm
This was literally just a lighthearted joke, and everyone seemed to be fine with it. Chumley even went along with me being him, and asked our group for a picture when we were all in duel. I doubt we really caused any harm to anyone. Its not like we are going around tk'ing in the hopes of getting Acre members banned. Pretty much everyone in game knew it was a joke and seemed to be fine with it. The stupid part is that all we need to do is add one letter into our names for it to be ok, like that one letter makes all the difference. I guess Chumbley will fight on now.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Artyem on March 08, 2016, 11:53:51 pm
Yeah, it's a joke and even I laughed at your first thread.  That's why nobody has been banned for weeks / months like in previous cases.  Most of you are getting the chance to put in a name change request without even being banned.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on March 09, 2016, 12:16:54 am
Although I think the rule is pretty silly, at least you guys that got the admin's shitstick can be reasonably sure that it wasn't because of favoritism, at least, if you'll listen to me.

I've done plenty of grey-area shit before, although nothing TOO heinous (at least blatantly in order to get caught :^)), but I've only been banned a few times. Once was Partyboy when he got admin from Shik, in which my whole clan playing that night got banned for using the word "racist frenchman". Personally, I took the ban for saying "i am a tremendous cock-mongling racist frenchman". Worth.

Another was when I spammed I-chat with incredibly racist epithets. Really for no reason; I was very drunk. Grannpappy didn't know who it was because I was on a random STF, but once I messaged him he actually apologised to ME and unbanned me, rofl.

Oh, anyway, the only real ban I've gotten was for teamkilling a clanmate (against while drunk) blatantly at 3am. Artyem banned me for a while. He was, uh...in teamspeak with me at the time.

The only time I've been banned in earnest is from Artyem, who was in my strat faction at the time and also a good internet homie.

Of course, I think the rule is fucking shitty and this is a decent sort of style of banter that shouldn't be worthy of any enforcement or punishment. But there's a difference between ass-tier admin codes and admin abuse through personal motivation.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on March 09, 2016, 12:20:17 am
the dumbest ban i've ever gotten myself into was at like 2am after getting purpsefully TK'd by an admin, the next round I went hard core edgy teenager and ass annihilated as many team mates as I could in spawn. I got banned obviously but got unbanned like 30 mins later after agreeing to come back and apologize to everyone personally.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: vipere on March 09, 2016, 12:20:54 am
HI, I know it's NA Drama in there, but, can i come in ?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Asheram on March 09, 2016, 12:51:49 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Zeus_ on March 09, 2016, 01:34:56 am
Can someone forcefully change someone's name that is "Zeus" so i can use it?

I am obviously the only Zeus that still plays the game so therefore i have the rights to the name.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: mcdeath on March 09, 2016, 01:41:24 am
I think the dumbest ban I got was when I literally wrote a ban thread for myself.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Penitent on March 09, 2016, 01:44:09 am
Can someone forcefully change someone's name that is "Zeus" so i can use it?

I am obviously the only Zeus that still plays the game so therefore i have the rights to the name.

I want the same thing with "penitent."  I think I've been using the name so long that if the other guy with a character under than name actually played, they'd be impersonating me.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Jona on March 09, 2016, 02:32:28 am
Can someone forcefully change someone's name that is "Zeus" so i can use it?

I am obviously the only Zeus that still plays the game so therefore i have the rights to the name.

Ironically, an alt of the guy currently named Zeus is "MYNAMEWASSTOLEN." I think we know who he is clearly referencing here...
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Torben on March 09, 2016, 02:33:06 am
didnt even know using similar names is banable.  thats rly supergay,  its a fuggin game, no need to create drama where there is non
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Yeldur on March 09, 2016, 02:45:02 am
Just to clarify, they weren't banned for using other peoples names, they were banned for using it in the context that they used it in, they were doing this deliberately to parody the Acre clans people, whilst not actually copying their tags fully, they did name themselves after them, which could easily have lead to misconception as to who they really were. Granted I couldn't give two shits, I thought it was hilarious, however, them being asked to change it was more than justified.

It's not like I can just call myself Vanguard_BlackBow_The_PimpSlayer and just waddle around with no problems is it, Blackbow wouldn't like it, and neither would anyone else, if I stole your name and placed my tag in front of it, that doesn't make it okay just because you've changed the tag.

But, as I said, I don't give two shits, I think the joke was hilarious and I also think the threats of a ban were completely unjustified.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: xxkaliboyx on March 09, 2016, 03:02:53 am
Your not winning this battle.....
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Zeus_ on March 09, 2016, 03:40:07 am
Ironically, an alt of the guy currently named Zeus is "MYNAMEWASSTOLEN." I think we know who he is clearly referencing here...

lies and slander
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: HungryNBroke on March 09, 2016, 07:01:31 am
Wow, this is still a thing.

The original request made by James for the Tripoli people to change their names was done in a very polite way. He did not threaten a ban until after 3 or 4 rounds of the usual "fuck admins, this is completely unfair, aboose" spamming in chat and no name changes being made. This sort of behavior over such a trivial thing wastes everyone's time and energy (the not complying with the name changes. Feel free to rage in chat all you want, super entertaining). At the end of the day if an admin tells you to do/ stop doing something on the server then it is in everyone's best interest to comply, even if you do not agree. You can always go to the admin feedback page or irc to let that admin know how you feel about their decision.

Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Keshian on March 09, 2016, 08:06:06 am
Is it me or do all those ex-hall monitors with no humor end up being the ones who give a shit enough to be admins?

First of all, since it related to James he never should have had any part in any admin decision regarding this issue, wayyyy too much bias.

Secondly, at least let it play out where they have a match up against acre - winner take all including names, then you can force name changes (preferably acre if they lose the fight)

Third, your admin responses were some of the driest, most humorless things I have ever seen - I highly doubt you laughed, except maybe when you get to exercise your banhammer in a mod of an old game.

Fourth, lets put something like this to a general vote or at the very least a vote among all the admins (EU side will be better maybe?) on whether this is acceptable

Lastly, what happened to all the admins who are part of fun clans like MB, Chaos, FCC, TKoV, HoC, BIRD clan, Mercs, Mithrim, etc. that can take a joke?
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on March 09, 2016, 09:33:43 am
Reinstate Tristan as admin












(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: mcdeath on March 09, 2016, 05:16:18 pm
Make me admin and I will ban all ranged, cav and anything that isn't else that isn't 2h
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: HungryNBroke on March 09, 2016, 05:43:08 pm
Is it me or do all those ex-hall monitors with no humor end up being the ones who give a shit enough to be admins?

First of all, since it related to James he never should have had any part in any admin decision regarding this issue, wayyyy too much bias.

Secondly, at least let it play out where they have a match up against acre - winner take all including names, then you can force name changes (preferably acre if they lose the fight)

Third, your admin responses were some of the driest, most humorless things I have ever seen - I highly doubt you laughed, except maybe when you get to exercise your banhammer in a mod of an old game.

Fourth, lets put something like this to a general vote or at the very least a vote among all the admins (EU side will be better maybe?) on whether this is acceptable

Lastly, what happened to all the admins who are part of fun clans like MB, Chaos, FCC, TKoV, HoC, BIRD clan, Mercs, Mithrim, etc. that can take a joke?

1. He did not take action before consulting other admins. I probably should have been the one to say something, but alas I am a lazy fuck.
2. Wow
3. That is your personal opinion, I happen to be a big fan of really dry humorless humor. I never laugh when I ban someone though. I just feel this orgasmic sense of power well up inside. Truthfully it is the only way I can ever get off.
4. After all these years you still think this is a democratic system. Thank you for showing me I can in fact laugh at a forum post.
5. years and years of hearing the same jokes over and over gets a bit old. Show me some new material and I will start laughing again.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Zeus_ on March 09, 2016, 05:49:43 pm
Make me admin and I will ban all ranged, cav and anything that isn't else that isn't 2h

including yourself?
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: mcdeath on March 09, 2016, 05:59:37 pm
including yourself?

I would obviously unban myself after I respecced to 2h hero.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Bronto on March 09, 2016, 06:40:40 pm
I would obviously unban myself after I respecced to 2h hero.

Then when you joined in on your 2h hero, I'd wait until you have a x5..........and then ban you.
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: mcdeath on March 09, 2016, 06:42:26 pm
Then when you joined in on your 2h hero, I'd wait until you have a x5..........and then ban you.

Assuming anyone could get a x5 when everyone played the 2h master race
Title: Re: True Definition of Impersonation and how it affects gameplay
Post by: Simon. on March 09, 2016, 10:04:11 pm
Got resolved so I'm gonna go ahead and lock this before it gets any more autistic