Yes, but add fall damage to high speed dismounts, ez.
I'm ok with that if it's nothing huge.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Yeldur on March 02, 2016, 05:08:17 pm
Cavalry already have a massive advantage due to the fact they have a press button, kill anything feature included (Lancers), they are strong on horse but when they fall off they SHOULD have a moment of disadvantage, if they can just roll away and instantly escape the death after finally taking down your horse cavalry WILL become overpowered.
Also, it's not realistic whatsoever, a horse is charging at a high speed and gets stabbed and killed by a pikeman, you've just been instantly stopped and due to the speed you were travelling at, flung forwards, if you hit the floor at that speed it's going to fucking hurt, do you seriously believe that you'd be able to roll away after you've just hit the floor at like 40 km/h.
It would be an illogical thing to add, and doesn't do anything but give cav another massive advantage other than the couched lance.
EDIT: Okay, with Gravoth's addition then I think it would be acceptable, if you fall from the horse you should take damage for sure.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 02, 2016, 05:48:59 pm
Cavalry already have a massive advantage due to the fact they have a press button, kill anything feature included (Lancers), they are strong on horse but when they fall off they SHOULD have a moment of disadvantage, if they can just roll away and instantly escape the death after finally taking down your horse cavalry WILL become overpowered.
Also, it's not realistic whatsoever, a horse is charging at a high speed and gets stabbed and killed by a pikeman, you've just been instantly stopped and due to the speed you were travelling at, flung forwards, if you hit the floor at that speed it's going to fucking hurt, do you seriously believe that you'd be able to roll away after you've just hit the floor at like 40 km/h.
It would be an illogical thing to add, and doesn't do anything but give cav another massive advantage other than the couched lance.
EDIT: Okay, with Gravoth's addition then I think it would be acceptable, if you fall from the horse you should take damage for sure.
So cav having roll would be OP but the infantry roll isn't, right?
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 02, 2016, 06:05:46 pm
So cav having roll would be OP but the infantry roll isn't, right?
Exactly.
Infantry roll is to counter bullshit like knockdown, and bumps. Cav roll would be a counter to their only weakness pretty much, getting dismounted. Their risk&reward is pretty heavy on the reward side already, removing even more risk would just make them silly.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Yeldur on March 02, 2016, 06:16:03 pm
Infantry roll is to counter bullshit like knockdown, and bumps. Cav roll would be a counter to their only weakness pretty much, getting dismounted. Their risk&reward is pretty heavy on the reward side already, removing even more risk would just make them silly.
So there's no bullshit with cav, ever, right? No 0 damage rears or other weird physics shit.
The roll has legitimate invincibility frames, but getting run over by cav is bullshit. Interesting.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Torben on March 02, 2016, 06:20:03 pm
only if i can keep lancing while performing role
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 02, 2016, 06:55:28 pm
So there's no bullshit with cav, ever, right? No 0 damage rears or other weird physics shit.
The roll has legitimate invincibility frames, but getting run over by cav is bullshit. Interesting.
Minor things compared to the benefits cav have already. Getting run over cav is unblockable, can deal quite a bit of damage, and leaves you completely open for infantry to swing at, this is why it needs a roll counter. If you are fighting atleast one person and cav comes, you can easily be forced into a situation where you have nearly no chance to avoid the bump and not get hit by infantry. Meanwhile as cav its nearly impossible for you to be cornered into a position where you cannot simply decide to run away. As cav you chose every risk you take, as infantry you can be forced into fights without escape, this is why infantry needs atleast some sort of escape mechanism to certain things.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Admerius on March 02, 2016, 07:35:14 pm
We need more roll stuff, here's an idea for roof/fence-climbers, double-tapping w(forward movement) or s(backward movement) adds flashy somersault-swings with invinci frames.
Minor things compared to the benefits cav have already. Getting run over cav is unblockable, can deal quite a bit of damage, and leaves you completely open for infantry to swing at, this is why it needs a roll counter. If you are fighting atleast one person and cav comes, you can easily be forced into a situation where you have nearly no chance to avoid the bump and not get hit by infantry. Meanwhile as cav its nearly impossible for you to be cornered into a position where you cannot simply decide to run away. As cav you chose every risk you take, as infantry you can be forced into fights without escape, this is why infantry needs atleast some sort of escape mechanism to certain things.
By that logic, agi builds need to be nerfed because they can force you into combat as well. These are horrible arguments, and 6+ points is a pretty sizable investment, on top of the cost of the horse.
Also cav is easily corner able, depending on map. And are just plain awful on any map with hills.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Asheram on March 02, 2016, 09:50:47 pm
Well some cav don't need to roll as when they are dismounted some inexplicable magic happens and said cav teleports/blinks 10-20 feet away from where they were brought down. Unfortunately for me I haven't learned this spell so when I play cav and my horse dies I usually follow him with some sharp or blunt instrument blow to the back of the head before I even reach my knees. :cry:
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 02, 2016, 10:52:28 pm
By that logic, agi builds need to be nerfed because they can force you into combat as well. These are horrible arguments, and 6+ points is a pretty sizable investment, on top of the cost of the horse.
Also cav is easily corner able, depending on map. And are just plain awful on any map with hills.
Agi builds do not have a Hold shield + w to knockdown multiple enemies button, and are half as mobile as cav, have half the damage and half the hp. 6 points is not a lot, barely anything tbh. Going 21/21 instead of 24/21 is not a big investment for the payout. Its actually so small im surprised more people dont just go cav with every melee build. 6 points is nothing, its as much as a shielder dedicates himself. Less than a thrower dedicates himself etc etc.
If you actually think its easy to corner cav, then you must be talking about arena maps. Cav dies because it choses to take that risk, be it flags hurrying it up or simply not wanting to delay, if not for this cav could probably stall out the game to ties as it pleases.
Im playing cav right now, and im shit at cav, i have no control over the hitboxes of stabs/swings, but im on a 3.0kd which is higher than my average infantry kd which i actually do decently know how to play. Cav is incredibly strong with little investment, but may fall off at lower player amounts.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Ujin on March 03, 2016, 10:49:02 am
Look, i was anticipating this- people coming here saying stuff like "cav is op as it is already" etc. But how is a well-timed roll (which, btw, you have to perform, it's not a 100% success) such a bad thing in a game where an archer can 2-3shot your horse and then shoot you while you're still lying on the ground for 4-5 seconds?
This is a defensive move and i don't see how it can have such a drastic hit on the class balance. ESPECIALLY since cav still have this annoying glitch when you lag all over the place uncontrollably after hitting another horse/bumping someone, which happens often.
Like i said, i'm perfectly ok with some fall damage trade-off if this is implemented. But then again, the roll is there to avoid damage in the first place, so if the fall damage is too high, then there's no point.
P.S. Gravoth, we both know that if the cav is going for the KD against a prepared player of pretty much any class, the inf player has a multitude of options and can at the very least do significant damage to the horse and then roll, the bump damage isn't so high.
Title: Re: Cav being able to roll after getting dismounted, like the knocked down infantry
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on March 03, 2016, 12:55:05 pm
I vote no. When you dehorse a guy he can survive due to random warping or the horse corpse meatshielding. That's plenty enough protection considering the effort it takes to dehorse. Unless you're a pikeman or a longspearman of course but then you're a bit nerfed vs infantry.