cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Hunter_the_Honourable on May 28, 2011, 09:38:37 pm
-
lets face it this is one of the main reason people say cav is OP when you look at its stats you can see it is if you say its not OP then get your eyes tested. its speed and maneuverability is just to much fully loomed you might as well say its unstoppable and no matter how shit you are as cav with that horse you know you will kill somebody. please don't moan at me saying you just don't like cav you probably some inf guy who don't watch his bac....WRONG I have 2 cav characters a lancer horseman and a swordsman cav so I am all for cav normally but lets face facts this horse makes people hate cav now so it needs the nerf and it needs it soon!
-
1-2 arrows and it's down. You trade survivability for acceleration and maneuver. It shouldn't be nerfed, but if something should be done it should at least be a compromise, I.E. get more armor and health if maneuver and speed decreases.
-
Perhaps, whenever one equips a bow, xbow, or throwing weapon there should be a little disclaimer at the bottom of the screen that says "SHOOT THE HORSES!" I think this would resolve a lot of the "cav is OP" claims.
-
1-2 arrows and it's down. You trade survivability for acceleration and maneuver. It shouldn't be nerfed, but if something should be done it should at least be a compromise, I.E. get more armor and health if maneuver and speed decreases.
Usually takes 3-4 arrows unless its a headshot or they are charging right at you (which means you don't get the second kill shot anyway), same thing with courser, which also gives cav a bad name as it goes faster than most cars.
-
Usually takes 3-4 arrows unless its a headshot or they are charging right at you (which means you don't get the second kill shot anyway), same thing with courser, which also gives cav a bad name as it goes faster than most cars.
3-4? Nah, it's more like 1-2. I don't know if you've tried the horse, but it goes down quickly, very quickly!
-
depends definitely on the archers lvl and bow. Some archers take like 60% of champion arabian warhorse with one shot.. horse archers need usually 3-4 hits, headshot is in most cases a dead horse
-
They are the bane of problems with cav they are simply to manoeuvrable and too fast :(
And yes im a cav player myself you see nothing but courser and Arab warhorse it gets old they are simply to good also the steppe horse ...
-
3-4? Nah, it's more like 1-2. I don't know if you've tried the horse, but it goes down quickly, very quickly!
No, its really 3-4. Kesh is dead on this one.
-
They can turn real real fast. Thumbs up Speed down!
-
3-4? Nah, it's more like 1-2. I don't know if you've tried the horse, but it goes down quickly, very quickly!
Only if they are charging straight towards the archer, the archer stands his ground and gets the headshot. If they miss, or the horse doesn't die, its a dead archer. Otherwise, it takes 3-4 shots from a warbow with PD 6.
-
either way it makes it pointless to buy a rouncey or a palfrey
-
either way it makes it pointless to buy a rouncey or a palfrey
The rouncey and palfrey aren't even in the same tier as the courser and Arabian horse. The latter are so popular because they're the best horses that can be maintained constantly in the upkeep system.
-
Gotta say, that when the horses are so fast that they start to make your computer lag, that might be a little too fast. I used to play a HA before the nerf and gotta say that heirloomed horses leave the basic ones in the dust.
-
Which one is the arabian war horse? I'm confused with the new names of the horses :oops:
-
Perhaps, whenever one equips a bow, xbow, or throwing weapon there should be a little disclaimer at the bottom of the screen that says "SHOOT THE HORSES!" I think this would resolve a lot of the "cav is OP" claims.
If this was put in, there would be noone complaining about cav any more. People might even stop complaining about horse archers. Add this now :mrgreen:
-
Which one is the arabian war horse? I'm confused with the new names of the horses :oops:
The Arabians are the small greys which don't move too quickly but can turn and stop on a dime. Coursers are the fast white horses you see so many lancers using. Destriers are the only brown horse and they're mostly used as a more squishy close-combat/bumping horse.
-
The Arabians are the small greys which don't move too quickly but can turn and stop on a dime. Coursers are the fast white horses you see so many lancers using. Destriers are the only brown horse and they're mostly used as a more squishy close-combat/bumping horse.
Yep, it's true they're "only" the third fastest horse. :rolleyes:
Anyway, if you want to know what it looks like and the stats, looking at the equipment should be enough. It displays nice pics of the horse, so you can easily tell wich is wich.
-
The Arabians are the small greys which don't move too quickly but can turn and stop on a dime. Coursers are the fast white horses you see so many lancers using. Destriers are the only brown horse and they're mostly used as a more squishy close-combat/bumping horse.
their the same speed as a Rouncey (43 speed) 1 slower then a Palfrey so as Bulzur said that only makes them the 3rd fastest horse
-
I consider coursers "too fast," everything else is either slow or normal to me. I don't expect, ever, to catch a horse on foot. I do, though, expect that I'll be able to stab fast enough with my spear that I can kill a horse which is bearing down on me. With coursers, especially Champion ones, they often come and hit me so fast that I can barely ready a swing before I'm trampled. They're the ones which I find most dangerous and altogether "too fast." I know it's entirely an infantryman's perspective, and I certainly don't intend the description of "too fast" as having any blasé normative implication, but when describing cRPG ponies to a neophyte it seemed appropriate.
-
The horses in this game are really fast and maneuverable, but have relatively low HP and armor. I think many cavalry problems would be solved if horses were made slower, but given more HP and armor to compensate.
-
The horses in this game are really fast and maneuverable, but have relatively low HP and armor. I think many cavalry problems would be solved if horses were made slower, but given more HP and armor to compensate.
Im using a champion destrier atm. If it gets any slower i might as well quit playing cav then, it'll get too slow and boring for me.
-2 speed for Courser - 1-2 manouver for Arabian warhorse in exchange for some more armour and health wouldn't solve all the anti-cav whining , i presume ?
-
The horses in this game are really fast and maneuverable, but have relatively low HP and armor. I think many cavalry problems would be solved if horses were made slower, but given more HP and armor to compensate.
I agree. Once you factor in riding skill and heirlooms, horses become ridiculously fast and get a ludicrously high speed bonus to their attacks which is a major source of the anti-cav argument.
Im using a champion destrier atm. If it gets any slower i might as well quit playing cav then, it'll get too slow and boring for me.
Destrier is about at the right place in my opinion. I might drop its charge damage down to 30, but leave it unchanged for the most part.
-
either way it makes it pointless to buy a rouncey or a palfrey
Even if you lowered the stats of the courser and arabian it would still make a rouncey and palfrey pointless :?
Im using a champion destrier atm. If it gets any slower i might as well quit playing cav then, it'll get too slow and boring for me.
-2 speed for Courser - 1-2 manouver for Arabian warhorse in exchange for some more armour and health wouldn't solve all the anti-cav whining , i presume ?
Problem is, if you do that, within a week people would be complaining that horses are too hard to kill.
I consider coursers "too fast," everything else is either slow or normal to me.
Except coursers make up for it by having a horrible lack of manoeuvrability. A full speed courser cannot turn for crap. Coursers can only do that at much lower speeds.
No, its really 3-4. Kesh is dead on this one.
I can take most arabians down with 2 arrows, unless I shoot really badly and hit them in the arse. That's with a MSB. They have bugger all armour and HP, and they aren't very fast. Hence why they make up for it with manoeuvrability.
The reason you see so many coursers and Arabians is because they are the 2 best horses. The same way people choose weapons because they are better than others. Who's going to take a palfrey if they can take an Arabian Warhorse instead? Fact is they are also very pricey and make you bleed money.
All the horses have advantages and disadvantages and I think they are honestly very balanced. You pick different horses for your own preference. I like the courser because it adds a speed bonus to my arrows and means I can out run lancers. Other people like the arabian warhorse for other reasons. It's nice to have that option. A lot of the 'solutions' here would essentially make most of the horses the same as each other and therefore take away that choice.
-
Cant they just reduce its manoeuvre to something more realistic instead of the insta turns they are able to perform atm :lol:
-
I can take most arabians down with 2 arrows, unless I shoot really badly and hit them in the arse. That's with a MSB. They have bugger all armour and HP, and they aren't very fast. Hence why they make up for it with manoeuvrability.
Lol, its not a matter of shooting badly. if you don't shoot in the head its the same damage only factor that changes is the speed multiplier damage. You are a horse archer which also vastly changes the speed bonus dynamic. Just last night I shot this guys amsterwork courser 4 times with MW strong bow, MW bodkin arrows, and 6 powerdraw when he was relatively close and had hit a tree, horse's head was facing away from me (like many lancers he carried a shield so I couldn't shoot him). For 2 shots to kill not in the head, you need to be shooting unheirloomed courser/arabians with a speed bonus working in your favor (ie charging you, which means you die if you don't kill horse). The lower tier horses die a little easier and are slower and less maneuverable.
A real way to differentiate horses is make the rouncey the fastest horse but very very easy to die (still lower speed than current courser) and its cheaper upkeep balance quicker death (heirlooming adds to health and armor), desert would be most maneuverable (less maneuver than current arabian) but also dies quicker, then slightly less maneuverable arabian but more hitpoints and armor and higher upkeep. This would actually bring back the diversity that doesn't exist that youa re so worried about. people would actually have real tradeoffs where the unarmored horses that have best hipoints and armor (after destrier) are also no longer the fastest and most maneuverable as well. Otherwise 90% of people pick courser or arabian, that is a sign things are not balanced.
-
Lol, its not a matter of shooting badly. if you don't shoot in the head its the same damage only factor that changes is the speed multiplier damage. You are a horse archer which also vastly changes the speed bonus dynamic. Just last night I shot this guys amsterwork courser 4 times with MW strong bow, MW bodkin arrows, and 6 powerdraw when he was relatively close and had hit a tree, horse's head was facing away from me (like many lancers he carried a shield so I couldn't shoot him). For 2 shots to kill not in the head, you need to be shooting unheirloomed courser/arabians with a speed bonus working in your favor (ie charging you, which means you die if you don't kill horse). The lower tier horses die a little easier and are slower and less maneuverable.
A real way to differentiate horses is make the rouncey the fastest horse but very very easy to die (still lower speed than current courser) and its cheaper upkeep balance quicker death (heirlooming adds to health and armor), desert would be most maneuverable (less maneuver than current arabian) but also dies quicker, then slightly less maneuverable arabian but more hitpoints and armor and higher upkeep. This would actually bring back the diversity that doesn't exist that youa re so worried about. people would actually have real tradeoffs where the unarmored horses that have best hipoints and armor (after destrier) are also no longer the fastest and most maneuverable as well. Otherwise 90% of people pick courser or arabian, that is a sign things are not balanced.
Courser is different...that does take 4 arrows :P Coursers have far more armour and HP. And I was talking about when I play as a foot archer.
-
Cant they just reduce its manoeuvre to something more realistic instead of the insta turns they are able to perform atm :lol:
This.
-
This.
Then it would essentially be the desert horse...
-
Then it would essentially be the desert horse...
Keep manoevur reduce the speed for balance's sake.
-
Keep manoevur reduce the speed for balance's sake.
The speed on the arabian is already average. I thought the argument is manoeuvrability? If you reduce that it become the desert horse. If you remove speed it become useless due to it's crap armour (manoeuvrability would count for bugger all at speeds that slow).
-
Couldnt they just remove the Arabian warhorse? There are already 2 horses with sick maneuvrebility here: Steppe horse and desert horse. If one wants to reduce the maneuvrebility, one practically gets the desert horse. And the op thing about the arabian warhorse is the maneuvrebility. So if its just removed, people can still enjoy several horses with sick maneuvrebility: steppe horse and desert horse.
-
The cavs in the game do not act as shock troops or flankers - the vast majority of their kills are against unaware opponents.
The problem with the horses speed is that it turns them into assassins: the distance that you hear the thump thump of the approaching horse is crossed so fast that there is no time to turn, locate them, see if they have a friendly icon and move/block/attack. They are effectively silent. Maneuverability gives no defense against arrows - what the 9 G turns do is to allow to break off an assassination attack against an aware target, so there is no commitment to the charge.
The afterburner acceleration allows cavs to bump into objects at full speed (no collision damage) and immediately start moving again. This combined with the ridiculous turning rate permits cav to ride at full speed in narrow streets with fear of killing themselves or simply being stopped. They are also not slowed down much when bowling through a group of people even with a low charge value. It also allows to circle-lance at 0 speed.
Speed is the most important stat that needs to be lowered across the board. A little more HP (not armor) to the squishy horses is acceptable.
-
The cavs in the game do not act as shock troops or flankers - the vast majority of their kills are against unaware opponents.
The problem with the horses speed is that it turns them into assassins: the distance that you hear the thump thump of the approaching horse is crossed so fast that there is no time to turn, locate them, see if they have a friendly icon and move/block/attack. They are effectively silent. Maneuverability gives no defense against arrows - what the 9 G turns do is to allow to break off an assassination attack against an aware target, so there is no commitment to the charge.
The afterburner acceleration allows cavs to bump into objects at full speed (no collision damage) and immediately start moving again. This combined with the ridiculous turning rate permits cav to ride at full speed in narrow streets with fear of killing themselves or simply being stopped. They are also not slowed down much when bowling through a group of people even with a low charge value. It also allows to circle-lance at 0 speed.
Speed is the most important stat that needs to be lowered across the board. A little more HP (not armor) to the squishy horses is acceptable.
The Arabian Warhorse isn't that fast...
-
The Arabian Warhorse isn't that fast...
Fast enough
-
Couldnt they just remove the Arabian warhorse? There are already 2 horses with sick maneuvrebility here: Steppe horse and desert horse. If one wants to reduce the maneuvrebility, one practically gets the desert horse. And the op thing about the arabian warhorse is the maneuvrebility. So if its just removed, people can still enjoy several horses with sick maneuvrebility: steppe horse and desert horse.
If the arabian horse is nerfed, they'd need to be too obviously. 49 man. steppe, 50 man. arabian no big difference.
Still that would be easy to do since there is a 8 points difference between arabian and the others horses, you could make desert man. 44, steppe 45, arabian 46 and they'd still be the most maneuverable ones. Buff arabian armor to courser level, steppe and desert speed a bit.
-
I agree with you but I would think for a speed boost the palfrey and Rouncey would need 1-2 points on speed as well, Because if you give the steppe and Desert Horse's a speed boost they would probably make it 43-45 so it would be the same as the Arabian Warhorse but with more speed and less maneuverability so it wouldn't change much. But as I said I agree that they should keep the higher maneuverability for those three horses but don't let them have to high speed.