cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: the real god emperor on January 17, 2016, 11:50:47 pm

Title: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: the real god emperor on January 17, 2016, 11:50:47 pm
They are fairly balanced and they're fun to play on, why not bring them back?

Yes, I know we have Nord Town, Port Assault etc. but I am talking about the rest.

edit to provide more seriousness;

Vendetta[insert screenies]
Is a good league map that provides great tactic opportunities and efficient for archers and cavs too.

Snowy Village[insert screenies]
We used to have this but it got removed dunno why(at least I never encounter it), it lacks environment but its quite dynamic and enjoyable.

Ruined Fort[insert screenies]
I think it is a little huge but thats fine I guess.It is definitely balanced, giving both teams structures to defend.

San'di Boush as explained, is forcing people to do circles which is gay.
Canyon is a no no, they have that map in Mercenaries and it's pain.

I haven't examined Desert Town yet, but those mentioned above(Vendetta,Snowy Village,Ruined Fort) are already in cRPG files and depending on a simple server restart to be added.

Gonna provide screenshots tomorrow morning, my head hurts.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Trikki on January 17, 2016, 11:51:51 pm
all we need is a bigger better (variety) map rotation and i bet people will come back too:)
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Gandalf77 on January 18, 2016, 11:31:53 am
all we need is more closed maps so gay agi ranged cannot flee through all map. And people wont go around the fucking map like a hamsters in their cage
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Schoi on January 18, 2016, 11:33:46 am
They are fairly balanced and they're fun to play on, why not bring them back?

Yes, I know we have Nord Town, Port Assault etc. but I am talking about the rest.

Play native l0l
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: LEKIS on January 18, 2016, 11:39:54 am
bring back 2012 map rotation, with a 15% chance of Arena.

Arena = fun
Fun = players
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Molly on January 18, 2016, 11:41:36 am
bring back 2012 map rotation, with a 15% chance of Arena.

Arena = fun
Fun = players
I always get flamed when I manually switch to Arena :cry:
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: LEKIS on January 18, 2016, 12:52:13 pm
I always get flamed when I manually switch to Arena :cry:

Just mute them, dont accept the hate :(
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Jacko on January 18, 2016, 01:32:40 pm
You all hated the rotation in 2012 as well.

Arena if fine with a low amount of players, with 100+, not so much.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Golem on January 18, 2016, 01:46:32 pm
You all hated the rotation in 2012 as well.

Arena if fine with a low amount of players, with 100+, not so much.
If, I draw some maps, then make a poll, then make the most voted sketches into actual maps, will they get added or is another poll obligatory?
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: the real god emperor on January 18, 2016, 02:30:22 pm
You all hated the rotation in 2012 as well.

Arena if fine with a low amount of players, with 100+, not so much.

I am not talking about Arena, actually I am against it since its no-tactic plain attack map, but San'di Boush , Vendetta etc. are tactical, fun and balanced maps.Plus, I didn't mean "replace" the current maps with Native maps.They should be added to current rotation to increase variety and reduce repetitiveness.Still waiting for Dupre and rest of the mappers to share opinions, because this is a serious suggestion.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Jacko on January 18, 2016, 02:59:21 pm
In general, the repetitiveness is the bad thing, not the actual maps. Though of course, some are just better than others.

Golem, first you make a map, then if the Scene Managers approve it they'll add it. Making a balanced map takes more time than sketching down things and polls are certainly not involved :P
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Molly on January 18, 2016, 03:06:45 pm
You all hated the rotation in 2012 as well.

Arena if fine with a low amount of players, with 100+, not so much.
I believe Arena is fine, no matter the player count, once a day or even less often, to shake up everyone and mindlessly charge...
One time Arena is 15 minutes of game time. That should be acceptable for everyone :P
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: LEKIS on January 18, 2016, 03:11:32 pm
You all hated the rotation in 2012 as well.

Arena if fine with a low amount of players, with 100+, not so much.

Well, compared to now.... 2012 was heaven.
also, arena is fine up until 140 players, mayhem is a welcomed change once in a while.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Golem on January 18, 2016, 04:44:28 pm
In general, the repetitiveness is the bad thing, not the actual maps. Though of course, some are just better than others.

Golem, first you make a map, then if the Scene Managers approve it they'll add it. Making a balanced map takes more time than sketching down things and polls are certainly not involved :P
Roger that!
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: saccizord on January 18, 2016, 06:39:02 pm
I'm so sick of arena in native, played this shit for like 3 years at least, but in cRPG I'm fine.

add canyon plox
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: Teeth on January 19, 2016, 11:16:41 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Arena is in, if it is not I don't know why.


Edit: Nevermind, I see Dupre never implemented any of the maps I sent him for addition from my latest community map feedback project, only removed the ones I suggested, at least as far as I can see http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/quick-pre-patch-map-rotation-adjustment-(community-feedback-required)/msg1146455/#msg1146455

I did not add San'di Boush because it is really small and would be a spawnrape map. The classic "open area with covered corridors on the side" design always develops a circling meta in cRPG. Don't know why I did not add Vendetta, perhaps because nobody suggested it when I asked and it slipped my mind.

I think for a good shot at this you should take some clear-cut action. Making a poll is not good enough. I have never seen a poll with a message that boils down to "add maps" fail. Actually, yours is doing kinda poorly relatively.List the maps you are thinking of in this thread, post a screenshot and check whether they are in the SceneObj folder.  Apparently there are weekly server restarts, so if Dupre can be bothered, it is very easy to re-add Native maps. Honestly that goes for anyone, making broad one-line demands is pointless, as nobody can find those coveted "increase variety" or "add the good maps from 2012" buttons. I have asked on multiple occasions for which maps people really wanted back, and usually got like 2 suggestions. People have no idea what they want, apart from a return of that "luvin cRPG feel" from back in the day. Just make some clear requests or shut up, see if everybody has the same opinion as you on what constitutes a "good map".

the Scene Managers
The what now?
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (all of em)
Post by: the real god emperor on January 19, 2016, 11:33:46 pm
Edited OP on that purpose.

Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: mcdeath on January 20, 2016, 12:03:13 am
I posted this on your map rotation thread and got no response from you or anyone really.
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Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: the real god emperor on January 20, 2016, 12:13:55 am
I posted this on your map rotation thread and got no response from you or anyone really.
(click to show/hide)

Golden rule of Melee Forums; nobody checks any section except General Discussion or Off Topic.

Also yeah, those are some dank maps there. I am sure many of them are already in cRPG files.Gotta check though.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Torben on January 20, 2016, 12:21:09 am
ruined fort yay
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: mcdeath on January 20, 2016, 12:24:53 am
Golden rule of Melee Forums; nobody checks any section except General Discussion or Off Topic.

Also yeah, those are some dank maps there. I am sure many of them are already in cRPG files.Gotta check though.

Nah man, I said to teeth add more maps and he was like fuck off unless you can give me map names.
I gave him that dank list and he never said shit back
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Teeth on January 20, 2016, 11:31:05 am
I posted this on your map rotation thread and got no response from you or anyone really.
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Apologies, I must have overlooked your post, I don't recall even seeing this list. All of these maps were removed for a reason, but most are completely playable, they just have their quirks. My map policy has been to do my best to prevent the map rotation from affecting the population, so maps that drew complaints have been purged in favour of maps that nobody minds. This makes you lose some variety for the sake of having no one leave the server because of maps.

It would be really nice if we could have multiple rotations, so you could switch out the entire list of maps for another one every month. Then people would love these maps because of nostalgia and they would not have to play them long enough so that some people get upset with their quirks. I recall reading some patch notes that stated that weekly server restarts would be a thing, is that working now?

If so, I would be willing to put together like three rotations that switch monthly, with a broader selection also including maps that have drawn some hate, because people won't have to play them non-stop for years and won't get worked up about them as much.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Protemus on January 20, 2016, 01:28:04 pm
Apologies, I must have overlooked your post, I don't recall even seeing this list. All of these maps were removed for a reason, but most are completely playable, they just have their quirks. My map policy has been to do my best to prevent the map rotation from affecting the population, so maps that drew complaints have been purged in favour of maps that nobody minds. This makes you lose some variety for the sake of having no one leave the server because of maps.

It would be really nice if we could have multiple rotations, so you could switch out the entire list of maps for another one every month. Then people would love these maps because of nostalgia and they would not have to play them long enough so that some people get upset with their quirks. I recall reading some patch notes that stated that weekly server restarts would be a thing, is that working now?

If so, I would be willing to put together like three rotations that switch monthly, with a broader selection also including maps that have drawn some hate, because people won't have to play them non-stop for years and won't get worked up about them as much.

Make this happen please
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Hellsing on January 20, 2016, 01:30:21 pm
As always I want to say sorry about this long post first, I know you guys hate me for that but nvm.
I looked through this thread and there are plenty of posts I want to react on...:

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Thanks for reading :)
By the way is there actually a scene manager?
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Teeth on January 20, 2016, 02:19:18 pm
By the way is there actually a scene manager?
I think I asked for my title to be removed about 1.5 years ago and Fips has been gone for a while too, so no, not really. I occasionally jump in to do something when I feel like it, or when no one else does and Dupre has been doing some map management himself, but that is it. The position is up for grabs, I think the Scene Managers dropbox still functions and with some communication with Dupre anyone could do it.

Well they say they do restarts.. but since wse2 was broken at some point the server feel laggy af ever since...
So I'm not sure if they truely do restarts or just telling us they do restarts ;)
Well the difference now is that it literally said "weekly server restarts" in the patch notes.

Well it's nice to have a huuuuuuge name list BUT
would you look them up with google one by one? Sry my time is to less for such things..
Name, scene code, scene it self, and 1-3 screens per map would be awesome to get the right first impression needed for such stuff buddy..
For example http://eelio.pagesperso-orange.fr/ this was one of the very best sides I ever looked through when it's about native maps..
Well, I've looked through all of the maps a few times so I know from the top of my head what most of these look like (and what their problem was/is). There are like ten I need to look up because I forgot them, but they are all straight from the mod files, so this is fine for me at least. Still, the point remains that these maps are mediocre at best and potentially bad, since a conscious decision has been made in the past to get rid of them. With a cycle of rotations I could work with these, but I am not sure that just tagging them on the already huge list of 85 maps is a good idea. More maps means more variety yes, but more mediocre maps just means that the good maps get played less in a swamp of alright ones.
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Hellsing on January 20, 2016, 02:36:42 pm
Sounds good so far :)
Well so do as you pleased mighty scene manager :wink:

Yeah though so, they "litarally" said it :D still not sure if it realy works out..
Well at least the server dosn't crash no more those days (that's something I can approve).

Well I had my problems with talking to persons in charge in my history, also with the management of those who were in charge (like getting told to hand over my updates again and again, I totaly lost the err order I patched and released them so they we're gone trash after some months of delaying..)
Also since I put so much effort in those I was truely dissapointed with that behavior and dropped it months ago as well..
At some point like december or something I guess dupre? (nashingra, ajkretchmer on steam) told me he finaly could update the stuff and wanted that I again hand over my updates.. I did send him like months ago, so I didn't found them anymore and was soo angry about this not even saving the links I passed on that I didn't wanted to do it for 0.4.3.0 again (to be honest I though he is just talkin shit again like he did in my sight months ago) but yeah now I regret not having it done again..

Well to make it short: when things seem to start in that direction and there is something like a schedule (f.e. Siege needs checks on those map map map map map till feb I will defnetly take part in it, and give you a hand that thinks will get finished asap).
But I won't create new maps.
Also I know the mapper rules and shit and how to make exploit fixes and stuff which dont look like 2 minutes work as well :wink:
So when it's time your looking for some helping hand with the stuff coming up in your mind, dont hessitate to ask. I will gladly take part in it again.

Looking forward to read more about this topic :)
-Hellsing
Title: Re: Bring native maps back (OP edited, check it out.)
Post by: Teeth on January 21, 2016, 10:08:44 am
Snowy Village[insert screenies]
We used to have this but it got removed dunno why(at least I never encounter it), it lacks environment but its quite dynamic and enjoyable.
I removed it because it is a very bland village map that gives one team a huge hill, at least on EU this team started camping it. Biased spawn locations make this a worse map than dozens of other villages. Only redeeming value is the nostalgia value as the "XP-barn" map, but I doubt many of you youngsters actually experienced that 8-)

Ruined Fort[insert screenies]
I think it is a little huge but thats fine I guess.It is definitely balanced, giving both teams structures to defend.
You spend a full minute hillclimbing to get to a generic ruin map, also lots of irrelevant map space for people to troll or delay. I removed this one in favour of less oversized ruin maps.

Vendetta is a fine map, should be re-added. Sandi Boush would not be so bad to play, but cavalry really gets shafted as they can only really go into the square and be cannon fodder.