cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Frell on May 27, 2011, 05:27:59 am
-
This is the one thing that currently drives me crazy in MB:
A basic encounter:
I have a shield and scimitar
I approach someone with a Katana
Hold shield up to prepare for the spam
Swing swing swing swing
Let down shield to attempt to get a quick overhead out
Caught mid swing, put shield up again
Katana user continues swinging, and starts running side to side trying to get around me
Hits me out of no where, stun causes me to lower shield, and I am killed in 3 more quick swings.
So this led me to look for realistic solutions to this problem, rather than just nerfing the swords / PO to be what they arent. I've watched many youtube videos demonstrating swords to find the simple solution as to why this was never done in actual combat.
For starters:
2H damage SHOULD be high, its more force, more momentum = harder to stop = more armor damage.
The swing should be fast, alot of weight, more inertia.
Reach should remain, it is the main benefit of polearms
So then whats the problem?
Well first, lets tackle some reality issues with this. Lets take my previous example:
I have a shield and scimitar
I approach someone with a Katana
Hold shield up to prepare for the spam
1Swing swing swing swing
Let down shield to attempt to get a quick overhead out
Caught mid swing, put shield up again
2Katana user continues swinging, and starts running side to side trying to get around me
3Hits me out of no where, stun causes me to lower shield, and I am killed in 3 more quick swings.
1. While I said the swing should be fast, the time between swings should not be fast. One swing is very fast, because of the momentum. This momentum takes time to stop and for a new swing to start. While in MB, once a swing is finished it snaps right back to the cocked back swing, this is unrealistic. After this one very violent and powerful swing, the 2hander should be vulnerable as his sword is returned to its starting position. Obviously the slower the sword is, the more of a chance that one hit could have killed you. You should be gambling on your accuracy.
2. This angers me the most. Why is it that when I hold up my shield, my turn and movement speed is reduced, but the opponent may move very swiftly while swinging unrealistically violent? Slow down movement foot speed during swings please. Pick up a 5 pound weight and try and even jog with it in only one hand, or run in circles while swinging like a sword. You'll see what I mean. This goes for all weapons actually.
3. This really goes along with number 2. While I can't argue with the stun, as it is a realistic affect and provides a split second of weakness for your teammates to take a whack, but you should not feel overwhelmed while fighting two handers in terms of standing in front of a lawnmower without the cover.
WAAHHH WAHHHH BUT WE HAVE 2 MANUALLY BLOCK!!1!!!1!1!!11
Haha this is the most common bullshit excuse I get from people opposed to 2H nerfs. This is rarely the case, ever. Go play a simple siege match, 98% of 2h users will barely ever block.
The trick is, swing as fast as you can repeatedly and hope you hit them before they hit you, and take advantage of the stun to kill them.
With my suggestion, you would approach someone with a 2h, both of you with your guard up. Player A would swing, Player B blocks, swings back, Player A blocks. This would all be at a slower pace to show the true power of the swords. Player A goes for an overhead, Player B stabs A in the stomach.
What will this change?
For one, Im trying to tactically fight, not try to stick my hand through lawnmower blades and hope I pull it back out unharmed. This will slow down fights to a more believable level in the game, where you will guess your opponents next move, because it will count.
Right now 2h/PO are the most frustratingly unrealistic classes in the game. Sure you can hold up your shield and block every hit until your shield breaks in 20 swings, but is the attacker getting harmed from this? No, hes just encountered a more defensive player, which is completely realistic (although id say say you should take small amounts of blunt damage while being attacked with your shield up).
So take this into consideration. And 2h spam exploiters will probably be against this post, obviously, as they're "skills" rely on this fault in the game mechanics.
-
I think Walt (or perhaps someone else?) already proved that the game mechanics support a "Player A swings, Player B blocks and then the reverse, rinse and repeat." It is also worth noting that this was during 0.220 and we are currently on I think 0.223, so this "study" of his may be out of date but I doubt that.
In my limited experience, it is mainly player timing that influences how big of a "window" you have to swing back. The problem of certain weapons swinging faster will of course cut down your "window" of opportunity if your opponent uses a fast weapon, and the more wpf your opponent has the smaller yet your window shrinks. Against a "Spammitar" build or any other very fast weapon with high wpf and a player that attacks as fast as he can, your window will be extremely small, but it is still rather possible to slip in between his strikes as long as your timing is very much on the ball.
Easier said then done, though.
In a way though, your suggestion of With my suggestion, you would approach someone with a 2h, both of you with your guard up. Player A would swing, Player B blocks, swings back, Player A blocks. This would all be at a slower pace to show the true power of the swords. Player A goes for an overhead, Player B stabs A in the stomach.
is true, just rather very fast and not at all slow and thus has a high learning curve that can be devastating if the player you are facing is a significantly higher skill set then you.
That is the main thing, I find, that the player skill involved in duels can very much tip the scale of a battle. If you were to hand Tyrian the weakest weapon in the game at a level 1 peasant build I would fully expect to have an extremely hard time killing him with any of my characters due to him having "mastered" that damnable timing window, where as I have not.
Disclaimer, this post is written in the style of my originals and is not one of my usual more "recent" style of blithering trolling. If I am proven wrong I do intent to acknowledge it and not lead the thread on another merry chase typical of the past month.
-
It is still not realistic. Even if you swing a light 5 pound weight like a sword, try bringing it back up and doing an entire full swing immediately after, you'll see its actually pretty challenging and any more weight could actually do damage to you.
Maybe the speed of the item in the item shop should be its true speed, and the higher your wpf the closer to the true speed you are.
Supa sword
Length: 98
Speed: 95
Recovery: 45
Current recov: 13
Where recovery is the time between the swings to pick the sword pack up and basically reload, and current recovery displays how fast it is at your current wpf.
As to actually being skilled with the sword, they're being skilled in the wrong thing. They've become a master (2handers) at exploiting the speed to their advantage in most 1v1 or group battles. What they should be skilled at is basically predicting the next move, like in UFC fights. Or knowing when to strike during their overhead, or overhead while they swing etc. As for shielders who can usually find their way through the lawnmower, they should not have to deal with that much overwhelming power to do damage. This is extremely frustrating to every other class, knowing you'll probably die soon.
-
ohh look is this time again...
another 1h noob that haven't figured out since he have a forcefield rmb click ability he might not be able to get the same benefits of what 2h/pole users have in dmg/speed..
slry this is gettin old yawn..... :|
-
This topic comes up a lot. The fact of the matter is, overall 1 handers ARE faster than 2 handers. When you're relatively new, spamming is hard to counter. Once you play for a bit, you'll find that a spammer is the easiest player to take out.
Some helpful hints for playing a 1H + shield against a 2h/polearm:
1. Take a couple shield hits to find their rhythm.
2. Swing as soon as you hear the ding.
3. Footwork, footwork, footwork. It's the most important, but most overlooked part of the game. Especially important for shielders.
4. DON'T TURTLE. Turtling gets you killed fast.
5. Left swing. I've found that against a speedy 2 hander they can connect with a side swing before I do an overhead. So in those situations, side swing.
Hope this helps.
-
It is still not realistic. Even if you swing a light 5 pound weight like a sword, try bringing it back up and doing an entire full swing immediately after, you'll see its actually pretty challenging and any more weight could actually do damage to you.
With all due respect, a 5 lb weight is not balanced as a sword is (center of mass is different, it is not designed to glide through the air, and most of the mass is centered around one small area and is ludicrously concentrated compared to a weapon), nor do you use the same muscles that a swordsman uses and thus those muscles are not as "trained."
Note that a bodybuilder has a different set of muscles that an olympic swimmer has from a poloplayer. Drawing back a 60lb bow is a great example of how different muscles are used.
I personally can toss hay bales with ease and sling feed bags around without a thought, yet see inexperienced "strong guys" topple the first few times due to lack of experience, or exerting the wrong muscles and wearing themselves out faster. I am not magically stronger then they are though...
-
ohh look is this time again...
another 1h noob that haven't figured out since he have a forcefield rmb click ability he might not be able to get the same benefits of what 2h/pole users have in dmg/speed..
slry this is gettin old yawn..... :|
Actually no, currently the Nodachi is the sword I use when Im not near archers, and the only way to really get kills with it is to swing it violently, because if I try to fight another 2h fairly, I know they'll just swing anyway. Haha forcefield. So cute, even though it lasts maybe 30 seconds of hits? The window when a 1 hander moves his shield to strike is much bigger than when a 1 hander tries to sneak in between the spamswings of a 2 hander.
So because we get slowed down, lose our ability to attack, have a weaker weapon, and can take hits without damage for a small amount of time, we're the ones that are unfair?
While you guys usually break shields anyway, have a farther reach, can swing as fast as us (sometimes faster), instantly block at any time during the fight, and continue swinging and retain completely agile footwork and speed?
This topic comes up a lot. The fact of the matter is, overall 1 handers ARE faster than 2 handers. When you're relatively new, spamming is hard to counter. Once you play for a bit, you'll find that a spammer is the easiest player to take out.
Some helpful hints for playing a 1H + shield against a 2h/polearm:
1. Take a couple shield hits to find their rhythm.
2. Swing as soon as you hear the ding.
3. Footwork, footwork, footwork. It's the most important, but most overlooked part of the game. Especially important for shielders.
4. DON'T TURTLE. Turtling gets you killed fast.
5. Left swing. I've found that against a speedy 2 hander they can connect with a side swing before I do an overhead. So in those situations, side swing.
Hope this helps.
Swords only need a slight toning down, this thread was directed towards pole arms and axes also. But what im asking is, is spamming realistic? No. So far the game has a pretty involving feel of real combat, till you get to the spammers who would have already thrown out their backs or dislocated their shoulder.
With all due respect, a 5 lb weight is not balanced as a sword is (center of mass is different, it is not designed to glide through the air, and most of the mass is centered around one small area and is ludicrously concentrated compared to a weapon), nor do you use the same muscles that a swordsman uses and thus those muscles are not as "trained."
Note that a bodybuilder has a different set of muscles that an olympic swimmer has from a poloplayer. Drawing back a 60lb bow is a great example of how different muscles are used.
I personally can toss hay bales with ease and sling feed bags around without a thought, yet see inexperienced "strong guys" topple the first few times due to lack of experience, or exerting the wrong muscles and wearing themselves out faster. I am not magically stronger then they are though...
Actually, 5 pounds dispersed over a large stick or rod is harder to return to your starting position. Im not requesting a 6 seconds dragging of your sword on the ground to pick it up, but not a lightning fast return to the next swing. But the weapon length is usually proportional to weight, so the longer the reach the more the penalty. Right now a good example of how most 2h swords should be is right around danish/flamberg level.
-
This is the one thing that currently drives me crazy in MB:
A basic encounter:
I have a shield and scimitar
I approach someone with a Katana
Hold shield up to prepare for the spam
Swing swing swing swing
Let down shield to attempt to get a quick overhead out
Caught mid swing, put shield up again
Katana user continues swinging, and starts running side to side trying to get around me
Hits me out of no where, stun causes me to lower shield, and I am killed in 3 more quick swings.
what is your build? are you wearing plate armour with 9 agi? i play shielder are my main class and i have no problem counter attacking 99.9% of players. the only guys who often hit me before my counter lands is cyranule and others who have mastered the castor swing... but ive gotten used to dealing with that too and can usually hit them first when they try it. spammers who cant manual block should be a piece of cake when you have a shield. the guys who scare me are the ones who can block so damn well that they last the 10-30 hits it takes to break my shield... and then out block me when i gain all the extra speed for having lost my shield (im not the best manual blocker out there, but im good enough to pose a threat to most players even after the shield goes).
i dont really disagree with you in terms of what is realistic... but i also dont have the same problem as you. i think 2handers are in a pretty good spot right now, they are still very powerful and have the highest potential for dueling, but they arent unbeatable, and they are at a big disadvantage in 2v1 when skill levels of all 3 players are reasonable equal.
-
What Im noticing is you are all so used to it being in the game, you're telling me tips on how to deal with it rather than asking yourself if it is realistic. And I say again, Im not asking for a crippling penalty. Im more interested in 2h becoming the realistic berserk weapons they really are, where one hit is extremely devastating, but you can't dish them out so often.
AOC got me to this game, and if you have ever played it, in mb 2h are like the man at arms.
Im
16 str
13 agi
95 1h
95 2h
5 ironflesh and powerstrike
I wear
Armet
Gothic plate
Iron greeves
Mail gloves
elite cav shield, scimitar, and nodachi
And I can still get overwhelmed by a spammer
My suggestion mostly applies to pole arms and axes, and some of the bigger 2 handed swords.
-
What Im noticing is you are all so used to it being in the game, you're telling me tips on how to deal with it rather than asking yourself if it is realistic. And I say again, Im not asking for a crippling penalty. Im more interested in 2h becoming the realistic berserk weapons they really are, where one hit is extremely devastating, but you can't dish them out so often.
AOC got me to this game, and if you have ever played it, in mb 2h are like the man at arms.
Im
16 str
13 agi
95 1h
95 2h
5 ironflesh and powerstrike
I wear
Armet
Gothic plate
Iron greeves
Mail gloves
elite cav shield, scimitar, and nodachi
And I can still get overwhelmed by a spammer
First off, realism doesn't equal good game design. Adding a mechanic like stamina would make the game so slow and boring. The REAL problem though is your build and equipment. With that build and equipment, you SHOULD be outspammed.
You already have low WPF and then you're wearing heavy armor on top of it. I'm guessing your adjusted WPF must be around 75 or so.
-
oh man... no wonder.
you have no speed at all.
you have bad wpf, mediocre agility and a ton of weight.
i play shield with 12 str 24 agi, 8 athletics, i wear gambeson with padder coif, lammellar gloves and light leather boots to keep my weight down. i have 172 wpf in 1 handers... you dont have to go as crazy on speed as i do... but damn man. shielders are not supposed to run around in heavy plate... they are light or medium armour.
-
What Im noticing is you are all so used to it being in the game, you're telling me tips on how to deal with it rather than asking yourself if it is realistic. And I say again, Im not asking for a crippling penalty. Im more interested in 2h becoming the realistic berserk weapons they really are, where one hit is extremely devastating, but you can't dish them out so often.
AOC got me to this game, and if you have ever played it, in mb 2h are like the man at arms.
Im
16 str
13 agi
95 1h
95 2h
5 ironflesh and powerstrike
I wear
Armet
Gothic plate
Iron greeves
Mail gloves
elite cav shield, scimitar, and nodachi
And I can still get overwhelmed by a spammer
My suggestion mostly applies to pole arms and axes, and some of the bigger 2 handed swords.
Yikes! I just did the math on this. Your effective WPF is 70! If you figure your average player has an effective WPF of 100-120...yeah...you're crazy slow.
-
dude, of course you get out-spammed with all of that stuff on. all the weight of your equipment subtracts from your current wpf at a calculable ratio. You cant seriously be expecting to haul around both a heavy shield AND wear heavy plate with no drawbacks.
Take a look at the people who regular destroy you. you dont see them using the highest armor classes or filling out all of their weapon slots. and they are most certainly lvl 30+ when they do decide to fully gear up. as you are clearly not.
Also, splitting up your wpf like that was a colossaly bad idea. the dudes eating your face for breakfast have 150wpf or more in ONLY 2H. dont sit there and complain about getting your ass handed to you when these dedicated spammers who built their characters for pure 2h damage simply skullfuck you because you dont even have enough wpf in one class to be dangerous, let alone deadly.
edit: the above was a bit harsh. I am just tired from work today. I need to cut someone. :wink:
-
You cant be outspammed even with 1 wpf if you attack back immediately.Need practise with footwork and timing,thats all.
-
I've just come out of being an archer so I really didn't know much about builds for melee at all, so that makes sense.
Then what is heavy plate armor for? People on horses or what?
Now Im more interested in making quick work of spammers.
Could anyone suggest some builds? Im going to reroll.
I only wear my full plate when we have x3+
Normally I wear
Nasal helm
Byrnie
Mail mitts
Iron greaves
-
I've just come out of being an archer so I really didn't know much about builds for melee at all, so that makes sense.
Then what is heavy plate armor for? People on horses or what?
Now Im more interested in making quick work of spammers.
Could anyone suggest some builds? Im going to reroll.
Most good players don't wear heavy armor 'cause it slows you down so much. Medium armor has better overall effectiveness for most people.
Here's some popular 1h & shield builds:
Str: 21
Agi: 15
Points converted: 2
HP: 70
IF: 7
PS: 7
Shield: 5
Ath: 5
WM: 5
WPF: 148
Str: 18
Agi: 18
Points converted: 2
HP: 65
IF: 6
PS: 6
Shield: 6
Ath: 6
WM: 5
WPF: 148
-
I only wear my full plate when we have x3+
Normally I wear
Nasal helm
Byrnie
Mail mitts
Iron greaves
Thanks for the builds, whats thew weight limit for armor? Archers it was 10 pounds and under.
-
Thanks for the builds, whats thew weight limit for armor? Archers it was 10 pounds and under.
There's not really a limit per se...really just enough armor to where most people won't 1-shot you. Shield users can also get buy with less armor since you're taking hits with your shield. If you don't care what your character looks like, you get the most bonus out of heavy gloves and lighter armor. Foot armor isn't that important since with high enough shield skill, you won't get shot in the feet.
But, just grab some armor that you think looks cool and wear it.
As an extra note, with 7 IF and a Kuyak I can take a shit-ton of damage and I'm still really fast.
-
OP is totally ignoring different weapon speeds and what stats the characters who yeild them have. Some 1h guys spam shit fast too. And it's not always even possible to block and hit after that with a slower weapon. Take that from a long spear user :)
-
Soulds like the work of Weeabo_
I suggest you learn when to attack back and how to use footwork to your advantage.
-
A quick and dirty end to any spammer is a swift kick to the balls followed by a quick slash on their initial approach, let it be known. I usually pack a fair deal of WPP, and don't really have a problem with spammers. Even on my archer, who uses Iberian Mace with 0 proficiency, I rarely die due to low speed/spam alone.
-
The real effective response to spammers is chamberblocks. One chamberblock, one swing immediatly after (usually spammers will continue to spam even when they are hit), spammer dead. But they are so difficult to do this hardly is a good tip.
However, I don't see how kicks can work. Even a noob spammer knows how to "footwork" (just cheap facehugging + turn, can't really describe that as footwork), so kicks will usually fail.
However, many people aren't used to enemies failing kicks on purpose so they don't react immediatly, that can give you an opportunity of striking back when your kick ends.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_solution
-
i say NO! fail shielder, try to do chamber..
-
Obviously according to the OP, 1h spamming is realistic :lol:
And to stay a bit serious, 90% of the spammers have 1 thing in common - they can't block. Block 1 hit (and if they are midlessly spamming it shouldn't be too hard) and they're dead. As for situations described by the OP, if a shielder stays passive when attacked, no reason not to spam him till the shield breaks. I use a 2h sword, so medium damage and no bonus vs shields and many times I encountered shielders that just stay and watch me hit their shield 20 times in a row till it breaks, not even once trying to hit back.
-
Get your :twisted: on dueling server and learn how to fight, you won't get spammed as much. It been proven that you cannot swing 2 times before the opponent, except awesome footing (maybe only 4-5 players in the whole cRPG can).
Oh, almost forgot, your first hit should always be to check the play style (spamming/feinter/...) of your opponent. Most of the time I get them on the first quick hit.
-
I agree with 1, that makes since.
But wouldn't the application of some sort of stamina system fix this and the fact that a sheilder with 8 points in shield and a steel shield be able to hold out against two 2handers almost indefinitely?
-
But what im asking is, is spamming realistic? No
The million dollar question is... is cRPG realistic?
-
Combat wise it does pretty good.
-
This is why i hate playing shielders, the timing is all messed up compared to 2h and polearm
-
Listen to spoons, he knows what hes talking about! Also, Im heirlooming the shit out of the military sickle. It is a blast to use :D
-
Blah-buh-blah blah blah blah.
Lot of people are right in the first page of this thread that I read.
1h without shield is amazingly good. So it's not terribly realistic that you have such a massive penalty for using a shield, but that's Warband.
Learn to manual block and you will dominate 1h against anyone who is faster than you while you use shield.
Also, I don't know if it's ping or what but I often begin to counter-swing at someone JUST BEFORE I hear the blocked-hit noise... especially when 1h/shield.
-
I think,
This game needs only 2 things.
First Shield Bash , being able to hit with shield which stuns.
Fatigue Effect which will put an end to Spam kill 10 guys each round.
-
Yep, but the community has proven time and time again that it doesn't want a stamina/fatigue system. Most think it will take away their freedom. Whatever that means...
-
I'd imagine that shielders would suffer pretty bad from a fatigue effect simply by virtue of constantly holding up/dropping/lifting/swinging something in each hand. And the archers would experience such terrible arthritis.
-
I think,
This game needs only 2 things.
First Shield Bash , being able to hit with shield which stuns.
Fatigue Effect which will put an end to Spam kill 10 guys each round.
And shielders who like to turtle the whole round...
-
The fatigue would have to be so little for swinging, or it would be unrealistic.
I mean, sure if you added a real player-controlled (like a toggle with a cool-down) sprint system, as a drawback you could have delayed fatigue such as: 5 seconds after sprinting you would go slower than normal for 10 seconds. Something like That could work. I don't think that is possible until WSE though. No idea if that could just be coded and added.
But this notion that you get so tired swinging a weapon around is pretty silly unless you did it non stop for more than 5 minutes -- and nobody and I mean nobody does that in crpg anyways. It already punishes you for trying that, since the in-game sprint mechanic already makes you run faster if you haven't swung or blocked in the last 2 seconds.
-
For mauls and polearms fatigue would be drained pretty easy
-
say no to fatigue. why would you want to slow the game down?
-
Yep, but the community has proven time and time again that it doesn't want a stamina/fatigue system. Most think it will take away their freedom. Whatever that means...
No, the community has proven time and time again that a stamina system isn't needed. Every single argument for a stamina system has been shot down. Go read through this thread if you want a reminder: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1866.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1866.0.html)
-
The game is already slow enough since the WPF nerf, no reason to slow it down even more. In the stamina bar case, gameplay comes before realism.
-
No, the community has proven time and time again that a stamina system isn't needed. Every single argument for a stamina system has been shot down. Go read through this thread if you want a reminder: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1866.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1866.0.html)
More like the community has proven time and time again that it's a bunch of conservative oafs with limited imagination. But whatever. Accept what you cannot change and all that...
Why would stamina/fatigue slow down the game? The only thing it would slow down is spam.
-
I would be fine if they removed the ability to swing straight after swinging, it might actually add alot to the game, especially nerfing polearm stun locking spam. but they would HAVE to reduce shield hp by ALOT so it always breaks in a few mele hits. why?
as a 2h user I HAVE to spam to win, if we just trade blows im definately going to lose. because you will never miss a block and I eventually will, even if a 2h can get direction right 100% of the time he cannot block as fast as a shield. and can easily be fiented unlike a turtle.
so I have to spam damage your shield and break it OR somehow break your timing to land a hit on you.
good turtles never get spammed because they have good timing; timing being the only skill needed to be a turtle.
-
so you say, but how many shielders do you know that are actually good in 1v1 dueling? and of the shielders who you think are good at dueling... how many of them are fairly passive and rely on counterattacking and trading blows only? the vast majority of good dueling shielders are very aggressive. im the only one i know that does rely on counters and timing.
-
so you say, but how many shielders do you know that are actually good in 1v1 dueling? and of the shielders who you think are good at dueling... how many of them are fairly passive and rely on counterattacking and trading blows only? the vast majority of good dueling shielders are very aggressive. im the only one i know that does rely on counters and timing.
^^this
As good shielders know, trading blows is a long and boring trip to eventually losing.
-
Anything slowing this game dowm further would be the end of good melee combat. It is @ the edge of boredom allready.
Before opening threads, one should try to reflect his build and playing abilities.
Please.
-
Agree with Mega.
-
Anything slowing this game dowm further would be the end of good melee combat. It is @ the edge of boredom allready.
Before opening threads, one should try to reflect his build and playing abilities.
Please.
I totally agree, but I still am for stamina/fatigue, because it would not slow the game down. Why did you bring up game slowdown again?
-
I totally agree, but I still am for stamina/fatigue, because it would not slow the game down. Why did you bring up game slowdown again?
Takes longer to kill people, I suppose. I assume that is what he is refering to, though I could be mistaken.
-
Stamina bar system could work like this:
It'll always gain more and try to reach %100 Once you block,attack or sprint it 'll drop but every second that you spend idle , it'll continue rising.Just like other games which have stamina system.Size of the stamina bar and regeneration rate could be arranged by a new agility based skill called "Stamina" and each agility point could add some amount of + to stamina bar + regen rate. I think implementing this to a mod impossible.It could be very good tho .
For realism-gaming dilemma : I think it becomes more fun when it is realistic.People play medieval games to have realistic medieval experience . Otherwise there are lots of arcade,sci-fi games out there.
-
I am currently playing as a 1h Horseman with shield no real difference between normal shielders (same thing but I ride on a horse for a bit) anyway I find it easys to fight 2h most of the time since as you said quite a few just spam while they do I simply backpeddle for a few steps then charge forward to catch them off guard or just wait till I hear him hit my shield then left swing at him and press the attack. Making this game more realistic would make it shite, yes its fun to have a certain amount of realism in the game but to much, then people thinnk why the hell am I playing this when I might as well go outside and do it? personally I think its just you tactics that are making you lose to 2h players.
-
"Making this game more cartoony would make it shite, yes its fun to have a certain amount of cartoony rock-paper-scissors, tic tac toe bullshit in the game but to much, then people thinnk why the hell am I playing this when I might as well go play WoW or checkers or touch myself?"
-
Train your timing, add WPF, stop asking rules to be changed.
-
It is still not realistic. Even if you swing a light 5 pound weight like a sword, try bringing it back up and doing an entire full swing immediately after, you'll see its actually pretty challenging and any more weight could actually do damage to you.
Maybe the speed of the item in the item shop should be its true speed, and the higher your wpf the closer to the true speed you are.
Supa sword
Length: 98
Speed: 95
Recovery: 45
Current recov: 13
Where recovery is the time between the swings to pick the sword pack up and basically reload, and current recovery displays how fast it is at your current wpf.
Or, get rid of spd entirely and make it strength - weight = spd; spd + weight + dam type = damage :wink:
-
gee whiz Why don't we just make it like warcraft you won't have to worry about trying to connect to your opponent's body or rotating your swing into anyone or blocking or really anything requiring any reflex's
is this really what one handers want, plz let my shield autoblock everything, its not fair that the enemy gets to swing?
I think the OP is n00blet, let me guess less than 1 month of play, my 1hander(go look at my steam its the same name as my forum name) gets easily 2-3 kills per death, same as my polearm and 2h (oh my god's say it ain't so)
learn to build a character, I see everyone sporting these high agi pure melee builds and laugh, that's not how the game is setup right now, anything over 15 agi and you better be doing something particular(amazingly annoying shielder/super fast polearm poker buildz etc)
on the other hand you have a 1h with say 24 str 15 agi or 27 str 12 agi (148 wpf @ 30 or 140 wpf @ 30, basically fastest "wpf" speed swings) armed with a good high end sword you will definitely be putting those big bad "invincible" polearm/2h guys down or making their life hell fighting as a team(as a shielder), you might actually realize its easier than you think
...
or you might be someone with absolutely no clue that builds matter, equipment matters and even the timing and flow of melee combat is actually quite intricate in this game
oh yea it's all spam, keep on crying and dying if that's what you want
-
What the hell is cartooney or warcraft-like on a stamina system? It doesn't even need a bar. Just decrease swing speed little by little for each consecutive swing and restore it quickly when not swinging. Nobody besides spammers can have anything against it.
-
What the hell is cartooney or warcraft-like on a stamina system? It doesn't even need a bar. Just decrease swing speed little by little for each consecutive swing and restore it quickly when not swinging. Nobody besides spammers can have anything against it.
-1
Don't slow the game down. The only people who can't kill a spammer are noobs. Learn to block, learn to use footwork, and just learn to play the game. The current pace of the game is fine. Keep your Mount & Asthma out of my Mount & Blade.
-
I also bitched about spamming when I started, but after a lot of training I feel I can take anyone now. My tip: you just need to use your head and use opportunities when you see them, if you fail to see any then you need to play/train more. Theres always someone better than yourself, deal with it.
-
What the hell is cartooney or warcraft-like on a stamina system? It doesn't even need a bar. Just decrease swing speed little by little for each consecutive swing and restore it quickly when not swinging. Nobody besides spammers can have anything against it.
I was not referring to the stamina bar, but a previous comment where someone was claiming that realism will ruin the game.
-
I was not referring to the stamina bar, but a previous comment where someone was claiming that realism will ruin the game.
if you had read the post properly you would see it said TO MUCH would ruin the game while to little would as well.
-
also mentioned many times and very true: there are nearly no true spammers out there. most people only "spam" when they think the opponent won't strike back. And in most cases it is not true spamming either, because if the opponent is underestimated and strikes back he suddenly starts blocking.
one thing is true though, being very aggressive is often very successful in this game.
-
There should be ways to go about this while maintaining the game's fast pace.
We just need more options.
I have heard suggestions about dodge options for infantry, directional blocking for shields with much better rewards (and nerfed regular block), etc. Timing an attack out of shield and having the attacker just spam is just very linear. More movement and defensive options would be greatly appreciated.
-
Please play more before you post threads like this. There's thousands of "nerf 2h/pole" already.
Also, this mod is not based on realism, but balance. Please keep that in mind before you pull your realism card out again.
-
-1
Don't slow the game down. The only people who can't kill a spammer are noobs. Learn to block, learn to use footwork, and just learn to play the game. The current pace of the game is fine. Keep your Mount & Asthma out of my Mount & Blade.
You sound like a politician. Instead of taking part in the discussion, you just shout the same old paroles every day.
A) Stamina system doesn't necessarily slow the game down AT ALL. Of course, it depends on the implementation, but a mechanism forcing you to block after 3-5 swings would slow the game down HOW EXACTLY PLEASE EXPLAIN. If at all, it will make the game MORE FAST PACED, because you have to RELY ON QUICK BLOCKING MOVES, or you will be dead. Good players have no problem with that, it's their style of play already. NOTHING CHANGES FOR THE GOOD PLAYERS.
B) It's true that in a duel, you only lose against a spammer if you are a noob. This is not the problem. The problem is that IT TAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SKILL TO CHOOSE A LONG WEAPON, SPAM IT AND REACH THE TOP 10 OF THE SCOREBOARD IN BATTLE OR SIEGE MODE. If this doesn't bother you, fine. It bothers me.
C) Everyone who opposes such a system must be a spammer noob himself, for only those would be negatively affected by its introduction. Instead of opposing this system, they should learn to use footwork, blocking and just in general learn to play and whine less. Keep your Mount & Spam out of my Mount & Blade. (See, I can also make stupid generalizations and wild claims that don't add to the discussion at all).
-
Frell, take a look at this thread.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,553.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,553.0.html)
It contains answers to all your questions, and in the beginning I'm teaching Kinngrimm as a shielder all I know about beating shielders. (and I'm a Ninja)
Now look at Kinngrimm these days.. Why.. why! I hate meeting him on the flanks, cause I know my probability of surviving the encounter is 30%. Less with his friends along. :-D
Also, as a shielder, your shield is your armor. You don't and shouldn't haul along huge amounts of armour.
-
You sound like a politician. Instead of taking part in the discussion, you just shout the same old paroles every day.
A) Stamina system doesn't necessarily slow the game down AT ALL. Of course, it depends on the implementation, but a mechanism forcing you to block after 3-5 swings would slow the game down HOW EXACTLY PLEASE EXPLAIN. If at all, it will make the game MORE FAST PACED, because you have to RELY ON QUICK BLOCKING MOVES, or you will be dead. Good players have no problem with that, it's their style of play already. NOTHING CHANGES FOR THE GOOD PLAYERS.
B) It's true that in a duel, you only lose against a spammer if you are a noob. This is not the problem. The problem is that IT TAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SKILL TO CHOOSE A LONG WEAPON, SPAM IT AND REACH THE TOP 10 OF THE SCOREBOARD IN BATTLE OR SIEGE MODE. If this doesn't bother you, fine. It bothers me.
C) Everyone who opposes such a system must be a spammer noob himself, for only those would be negatively affected by its introduction. Instead of opposing this system, they should learn to use footwork, blocking and just in general learn to play and whine less. Keep your Mount & Spam out of my Mount & Blade. (See, I can also make stupid generalizations and wild claims that don't add to the discussion at all).
A: It would slow the game down and it would change the game for good players. For example, if I'm going up against a turtle shielder I want to kill him as fast as possible. I know the guy isn't going to attack so I am going to spam the shit out of him until his shield breaks. If I have to wait after 3 swings or so, that slows the game down.
B: I disagree with this point. If there is anyone half-decent on they won't fall to a spammer. Maybe this works on siege, but most people who play siege aren't any good anyway. In battle this simply doesn't work. Maybe it's because better players generally play battle or because battle relies so much on teamwork and positioning.
C: Again totally disagree. Spamming isn't a problem and never was. I LOVE coming across a spammer because it's an easy kill. I don't remember who said this quote originally (I know someone has it in his sig) but it goes something like, "If you fall to spam you're either a noob, have a bad build or just plain suck."
-
It contains answers to all your questions, and in the beginning I'm teaching Kinngrimm as a shielder all I know about beating shielders.
What monster have you created...
-
I am currently playing as a 1h Horseman with shield no real difference between normal shielders (same thing but I ride on a horse for a bit) anyway I find it easys to fight 2h most of the time since as you said quite a few just spam while they do I simply backpeddle for a few steps then charge forward to catch them off guard or just wait till I hear him hit my shield then left swing at him and press the attack. Making this game more realistic would make it shite, yes its fun to have a certain amount of realism in the game but to much, then people thinnk why the hell am I playing this when I might as well go outside and do it? personally I think its just you tactics that are making you lose to 2h players.
???
-
People say spammers aren't a problem, and for the most part I agree. But the fact is, they win games. It doesn't matter if I can kill them every time because they just mashed m1 through 8 of my teammates. I just got out of an NA siege game where two complete trash players, I mean they never blocked once the entire match, both ended the map with about 60 kills and 10 deaths. I'm spectating one now, 32 and 8 and hasn't blocked a single time. The only downside to two handers and polearms is that you have to manual block, except clearly you don't. And that's my problem. For every 1 legit player who wins a game with skill there are 5 that can spam for the exact same score.
-
I'll spam all the time, on one condition: that the enemy allows me to. I will never stop attacking/feinting to block if there is never any reason for me to block. If there is, I will. It is not my fault if someone doesn't have enough proficiency, or slows themselves down with too much armor, or plays too defensively, or doesn't know how to strike in a group context.
-
People say spammers aren't a problem, and for the most part I agree. But the fact is, they win games. It doesn't matter if I can kill them every time because they just mashed m1 through 8 of my teammates. I just got out of an NA siege game where two complete trash players, I mean they never blocked once the entire match, both ended the map with about 60 kills and 10 deaths. I'm spectating one now, 32 and 8 and hasn't blocked a single time. The only downside to two handers and polearms is that you have to manual block, except clearly you don't. And that's my problem. For every 1 legit player who wins a game with skill there are 5 that can spam for the exact same score.
1. Well, tbh it is not the spammers fault that ppl are shite at blocking (as much as I dislike spammers, they are nothing but easy kills).
2. You are never going to win against any decent player by spamming, and imo, killing the good players is what's fun. Let the spammers kill the newbs, and rejoice in the fact that while you are improving your skillz by battling the best out there, Mr Spammer is gaining nothing. It's not at all about just how many you kill, whom you kill is equally important. And for the overall progression of you as a player, spammers killing the noobs has little effect (as you would not gain anything from killing the newbs either).
3. As icing on the cake, the newbs are forced to learn how to block and will thus quickly surpass the spammer in skill.
-
You are never going to win against any decent player by spamming, and imo, killing the good players is what's fun. Let the spammers kill the newbs, and rejoice in the fact that while you are improving your skillz by battling the best out there, Mr Spammer is gaining nothing. It's not at all about just how many you kill, whom you kill is equally important. And for the overall progression of you as a player, spammers killing the noobs has little effect (as you would not gain anything from killing the newbs either).
Well said mister, +1.
-
I don't agree when people say spamming doesn't work or that there aren't any. My pikeman 15/22 (will be 24 with 8 ath and 8 wm) can spam his long axe (sidearm for 1v1 situations) and nearly stunlock people. While spamming won't work on the duel server (sometimes), it works really well in battle. People don't expect you to spam, that's why it's so easy. And with 24 agility, you can easily turn around the enemy and go through the blocks. Even if technically I don't stunlock, the timing window for blocking my next swing is still very short.