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cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Horns_Archive on October 03, 2015, 06:56:48 pm

Title: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Horns_Archive on October 03, 2015, 06:56:48 pm
This post is not necessarily for everyone on this forum but mostly directed at the admins/people of authority. I was in TS with Jaren last night when he said he got banned when he wasn't in game. He posted in the Ban section about it and here is that post: http://forum.melee.org/na-%28official%29/banned-que/ (http://forum.melee.org/na-%28official%29/banned-que/).

Apparently he had been shit posting in a ban thread here: http://forum.melee.org/na-%28official%29/ban-request-for-aldo_thedandydiddler-cairo-testicleez-ogerp-kennyfuckingpowe/ (http://forum.melee.org/na-%28official%29/ban-request-for-aldo_thedandydiddler-cairo-testicleez-ogerp-kennyfuckingpowe/) and got banned by Froyo for teamkilling.

In a reply from the above ban thread Froyo says that "Spam posters will be banned for obstruction of justice." Now my question is: why does Froyo get the authority to ban someone in game by just saying so on the forums? The rule Jaren broke was: "Do not post unless you have something case related to say. No spam allowed." The only info about punishment for spam is: "Failure to follow the above rules may result in a forum mute." Nowhere does it say there is any punishment that will be given in game.

 I agree that shit posting in the ban section is stupid and can prevent the ban from being dealt with but that is why admins can Mute people. In this case he didn't even mute Jaren or give him a warning on the forum. He just banned him in game. If you start banning people in game for things they do/say on the forums no one is going to be able to play. I know this community is a monarchy and admins can do whatever they want but this just seems a bit too ridiculous to let it pass.

So my question is to the all the admins out there: Was this a justifiable ban? Please note that I am not complaining as much as I am curious about other admins opinions.
Before I drop the mic I just want to say that I think Froyo is a very good admin.This one instance does not define who he is as an admin but something needed to be said.

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TL;DR = underlined
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Austrian on October 03, 2015, 07:00:41 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 03, 2015, 07:02:35 pm
Forum stuff does not = in game punishment.

Said so by Devs.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 07:36:05 pm
Thanks for the support.

24hr and my first in-game ban over forum posting really rustled my jimmies.

I attempted to reach out to quite a few admins and I'd like to thank the few that actually responded.
But this unwritten rule that other admins can't effect other admins bans is... Well, horse shit.

Been a part of the community for years... If I know how to do your role better then yourself, just stahp.
Or at least acknowledge your actions with me in messages provide adequate reasoning's and work with me to any degree but, this is the internet, accountability with power means... What?

Hate to keep stirring the pot but, my ban continues.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: XyNox on October 03, 2015, 07:39:32 pm
There is nothing more pathetic than people who intentionally grief/harass because they expect a punishment that they personally do not consider as bothering, then show the impudence of daring to complain when the punishment actually comes out harsher than they thought. Spamming bansection is forbidden, everyone knows it, people still do it. The logical thing to assume is that more severe consequences are needed in order to make people understand.

Thats just my personal opinion though.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 03, 2015, 07:47:03 pm
Quote from: XyNox on October 03, 2015, 07:39:32 pm
There is nothing more pathetic than people who intentionally grief/harass because they expect a punishment that they personally do not consider as bothering, then show the impudence of daring to complain when the punishment actually comes out harsher than they thought. Spamming bansection is forbidden, everyone knows it, people still do it. The logical thing to assume is that more severe consequences are needed in order to make people understand.

Thats just my personal opinion though.

And that's why we have Forum mods. They remove those posts and mute people on forums for infractions. In game admins do not have that right.
http://forum.melee.org/na-(official)/little-reminder-44873/msg707677/#msg707677
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: XyNox on October 03, 2015, 07:55:21 pm
Quote from: Lt_Anders on October 03, 2015, 07:47:03 pm
And that's why we have Forum mods. They remove those posts and mute people on forums for infractions. In game admins do not have that right.
http://forum.melee.org/na-(official)/little-reminder-44873/msg707677/#msg707677

True, we have mods, mutes are also constantly being issued for spamming banthreads. It just appears that nobody really gives a damn about a forum mute, thats why the spamming keeps happening.

As I said, that was just my personal opinion. The mentality I spoke of is basically the same as these guys in those prank videos that are bothering people in the most obnoxious ways and then act all surprised when somebody punches them in the face.

It doesnt make the decision right of course but morally I can see where froyo is comming from, thats all I meant to say.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 03, 2015, 07:58:46 pm
Then lets go ahead and do it from now on to everyone
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 08:08:42 pm
Quote from: XyNox on October 03, 2015, 07:55:21 pm
True, we have mods, mutes are also constantly being issued for spamming banthreads. It just appears that nobody really gives a damn about a forum mute, thats why the spamming keeps happening.

As I said, that was just my personal opinion. The mentality I spoke of is basically the same as these guys in those prank videos that are bothering people in the most obnoxious ways and then act all surprised when somebody punches them in the face.

It doesnt make the decision right of course but morally I can see where froyo is comming from, thats all I meant to say.

I enjoy this pristine outlook on this community where posting 2 pictures is obnoxious and punishable by in-game bans.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Kalam on October 03, 2015, 08:12:34 pm
I suggest the 'admin feedback' thread for subjects like these.

If you have a forum problem, make a forum report.

If you have an in-game problem, make a ban request post and use the template provided in the section. The date/time bits are of particular importance.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 08:13:55 pm
Quote from: Kalam on October 03, 2015, 08:12:34 pm
I suggest the 'admin feedback' thread for subjects like these.

If you have a forum problem, make a forum report.

If you have an in-game problem, make a ban request post and use the template provided in the section. The date/time bits are of particular importance.

Thank you Kalam, I've gone the routes necessary with very little feedback.
I'm not going to shame Horns for sticking up for me when something does indeed seem fucky.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Uther Pendragon on October 03, 2015, 08:18:17 pm
Quote from: Horns on October 03, 2015, 06:56:48 pm
Apparently he had been shit posting in a ban thread

Quote from: cmp on January 24, 2011, 01:51:26 pm
This section is for ban/unban requests, everything else will be considered spam and sanctioned accordingly. Repeat offenders will be banned in-game as well.

In your defence, that section is only posted in (EU) part of unban requests, so you may have missed that. And yes, it's the first time I see it invoked by someone else than the devs, but it is justified and useful against repeat offenders and people who don't know when to shut up. :)

A very fun rule, I'll remember about it next time when I think of reporting an annoying spammer from a ban thread.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 08:23:21 pm
Quote from: Uther Pendragon on October 03, 2015, 08:18:17 pm
In your defence, that section is only posted in (EU) part of unban requests, so you may have missed that. And yes, it's the first time I see it invoked by someone else than the devs, but it is justified and useful against repeat offenders and people who don't know when to shut up. :)

A very fun rule, I'll remember about it next time when I think of reporting an annoying spammer from a ban thread.

I'd love to throw myself under the 'repeat offenders' bus but, I'm rarely on the forums... And it was 2 pictures, no words.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Uther Pendragon on October 03, 2015, 08:26:59 pm
Quote from: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 08:23:21 pm
I'd love to throw myself under the 'repeat offenders' bus but, I'm rarely on the forums. This action seems too harsh of a punishment for someone with as little forum activity as I've had lately.

I guess that is up to Froyo to decide :?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: mcdeath on October 03, 2015, 08:36:42 pm
Quote from: Kalam on October 03, 2015, 08:12:34 pm
I suggest the 'admin feedback' thread for subjects like these.

As if these threads aren't just massive circle jerks that have no actual feedback
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jona on October 03, 2015, 08:38:44 pm
Quote from: Uther Pendragon on October 03, 2015, 08:18:17 pm
In your defence, that section is only posted in (EU) part of unban requests

Cuz in Murica, we have FREEDOM!
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Taser on October 03, 2015, 08:45:39 pm
Have to agree the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Shitposting is its own punishment anyway.

Had Jaren kept up being annoying and etc, I guess that's fine but only via forum punishments (warning/mute). But 24hrs for a forum shitpost? That's too far.

Froyoyo is usually a good admin so this is out of the blue.

If they want to do bans in game for a shitpost in ban threads then fine but 24 hours is way too long.

#FreeJaren2016
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Nightingale on October 03, 2015, 08:50:18 pm
I strongly disagree with froyo's action in banning for a few "spam" posts in a ban thread; if that is truly why he banned you I will lift the ban.

- I've already sent you a PM detailing other things that should also be in this post but I'm not going to rewrite them.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jona on October 03, 2015, 08:50:59 pm
Quote from: Taser on October 03, 2015, 08:45:39 pm
#FreeJaren2016

He's free.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Taser on October 03, 2015, 08:52:00 pm
Quote from: Jona on October 03, 2015, 08:50:59 pm
He's free.

Im glad my efforts were not wasted and that the admins heeded my call.






When was he actually freed?
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 09:09:46 pm
Just got done reading all my messages.

Thank you, Nightingale, as for the message. determining tone is difficult with text. My apologies.

Thank you as well Kalam, you're a light in the darkness.

Thank you Taser, for being the best Taser around.

Thank you Jona & Poophammer for looking into it yesterday evening.

Not med at Froyo, he did what he thought was necessary.

Horns, you're my boo!
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 03, 2015, 09:18:27 pm
No love.  :cry:
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 09:34:04 pm
Quote from: Lt_Anders on October 03, 2015, 09:18:27 pm
No love.  :cry:

Actually big props to you for viable citation. Thank you Anders.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Horns_Archive on October 03, 2015, 09:45:27 pm
First of all thanks everyone! Glad to see this helped Jaren.
Second: I will do so next time Kalam, thank you for being understanding and not moving it.
Third: Uthyr, did not know of this rule but definitely was viable in this instance. Maybe it could be added to NA rules in the future.

And lastly for everyones viewing pleasure here is a wonderful example of what not to do in a ban thread that I participated in 2 years ago when I was a spritely young lad:http://forum.melee.org/na-%28official%29/ban-horns-and-bluemoon-and-sexophone/  (http://forum.melee.org/na-%28official%29/ban-horns-and-bluemoon-and-sexophone/)

I think I was muted for a couple months after this. Wouldn't do it again but a shame not to let it see the light. Cheers erybudy.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on October 03, 2015, 09:58:24 pm
Ban thread for MB and everyone is surprised when MB acts like MB and posts dank memes and other shit? Its like being shocked with that Remnant ban thread turned into a massive drama shit fest in under 3 posts.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: mcdeath on October 03, 2015, 10:14:17 pm
I GOT BANNED TOO WHAT THE FUCK GUYS.

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Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Jaren on October 03, 2015, 10:17:35 pm
Quote from: mcdeath on October 03, 2015, 10:14:17 pm
I GOT BANNED TOO WHAT THE FUCK GUYS.

(click to show/hide)

McDeath doesn't deserve a double standard, I'd request further investigation on his part as well.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: ArysOakheart on October 03, 2015, 10:24:41 pm
Free Peasant admin best admin. Get rekt.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Taser on October 03, 2015, 11:36:40 pm
Quote from: mcdeath on October 03, 2015, 10:14:17 pm
I GOT BANNED TOO WHAT THE FUCK GUYS.

(click to show/hide)

Didn't you tk the dude tho?









Sorry tho McDeath.

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Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: mcdeath on October 03, 2015, 11:50:51 pm
Quote from: Taser on October 03, 2015, 11:36:40 pm
Didn't you tk the dude tho?









Sorry tho McDeath.

(click to show/hide)
I cav bumped the guy and like 4 other people leaving spawn.
Also I was referring to the ban from spamming in the forums
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Nightingale on October 04, 2015, 01:01:01 am
Quote from: mcdeath on October 03, 2015, 11:50:51 pm
I cav bumped the guy and like 4 other people leaving spawn.
Also I was referring to the ban from spamming in the forums

Difference is you constantly are posting in ban threads. So I can see Froyo's justification of that; not to mention you quoted him and posted more spam as direct deviance.
Title: Re: Admin Abuse?
Post by: Horns_Archive on October 04, 2015, 01:19:05 am
Locking because shit posting has begun. Case Closed.