cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: AwesomeHail on August 03, 2015, 11:29:08 am

Title: Market fucking
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 03, 2015, 11:29:08 am
As some of you might have noticed, the market has been destroyed, by none other than Dave and some other dudes who only trade and want to suck as much money out of people as they can.

The price of current loompoints has gone up so much now, so much that the average player will not be able to buy a loompoint.
Masterwork prices have also gone up, but those are still doable


what to do against these massive douches?

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Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: //saxon on August 03, 2015, 11:34:37 am
Didn't someone sell like 30 loompoints for 200k each? Whoever did that completely fucked the mods economy. Everyone is trying to make profit off them.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Arthur_ on August 03, 2015, 11:57:50 am
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Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Pandemona on August 03, 2015, 12:08:37 pm
I think the best and most simple solution to this would be making ''Reforge'' option give us 3 loompoints instead of 2 per item. We have definetly lesser players playing this mod than used to and it effects marketplace aswell.

Marketplace is in pretty bad condition at the moment there aren't much items/sellers and when you are trying to find an item you need, most of the times you either can't find it or find offers cost you more than they actually worth. It's quite hard to find a fair offer in the marketplace. I'm not telling this towards anyone, this has been an issue for very long time in my opinion.

Changing ''Reforge'' option to give us 3 loompoints instead of 2 will give all of us chance to try different builds and different weapons more easily if people think 3 loompoints are too much let's make that option cost 100k gold or something like that. This might also cause more loompoints going around in the market and might even lower the loompoint prices, but i am not sure about the last thing.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 03, 2015, 12:09:55 pm
or just have 1 heirloom exchange per 3 days?
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Pandemona on August 03, 2015, 12:15:32 pm
I forgot to mention that the gold increase per tick with last update probably had an effect on heirloom point prices but as i said, unfair offers in the market has been an issue for long time.

Edit : Thanks for making a thread about this btw.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Mlekce on August 03, 2015, 12:55:45 pm
It is basic of economy. Look how much devs buffed gold gain. More money you put in circulation, the lesser value it have.
There wasn't any lp in market for 2 days, only Routier Odo had one, i think,  but there was at least 10 guys who wanted to buy lp. When you have aggregate demand that is higher then offer - price goes up until demand and offer get balanced. I think lp price will be stabilize in day or two on price of 600-650k for a lp.
In long term they must increase gold sink because i can make 70k of gold for like 3 hours of playing crpg and that will decrease value of gold and increase prices of lp and items.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on August 03, 2015, 01:32:17 pm
Quote from: Pandemona on August 03, 2015, 12:15:32 pm
I forgot to mention that the gold increase per tick with last update probably had an effect on heirloom point prices but as i said, unfair offers in the market has been an issue for long time.

Edit : Thanks for making a thread about this btw.

That is indeed the root cause. It fucked up banner prices dearly as well.

You may have noticed that I am not playing anymore. All I do is make sure that my clannies can keep playing under the clan banner. During the latest banner auctions, however, shit just got fucked up. I guess it was 2 weeks ago or something. Usually, you would see prices as high as 250k and the amount would drop after a week. You could end up with a banner slot for 150k at worst. But holymotherfuckingdalailama, I have seen a persistent pricing trend of around 500k this time.

Just as you thought "Mod is unalive, who would even bother paying so much for a banner slot?", you see this outrageous shit.

If money isn't a problem like this anymore, do something about it. Maybe stop charging for banner slots, no? People like me, who aren't playing anymore but still have to tend to their clans, are in a tough situation when capitalism is so unleashed.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Utrakil on August 03, 2015, 01:59:14 pm
If you guy want to do something for the marketplace just throw all your items from the clan armoury into the market.
If you have to trade your loomed items if you want to try something new instead of just borrowing what you need from the armoury the market will be much more vivid.
Without armouries there would be hundreds of +3 vs +3 offers out there.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Kalp on August 03, 2015, 02:17:43 pm
Loompoint for 800k  :?: :!: :shock: :?: :shock: :!: :?: jeeez it deserve a ban. Even with increased gold per tick it's a two weeks of very solid play.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Voncrow on August 03, 2015, 02:35:04 pm
Quote from: Kalp on August 03, 2015, 02:17:43 pm
Loompoint for 800k  :?: :!: :shock: :?: :shock: :!: :?: jeeez it deserve a ban. Even with increased gold per tick it's a two weeks of very solid play.

I can make like a 100k after playing a couple of hours. Remember after a short break I looked at my gold total and wondering where the extra 100k came from. And if you want to complain about loom prices, you can put up your own looms for cheaper prices if you want. The fun part of a player economy is that it isn't any one player who decides how much something cost. (at least heirloom part of it.)
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Zeltino on August 03, 2015, 02:43:02 pm
Quote from: Voncrow on August 03, 2015, 02:35:04 pm
you can put up your own looms for cheaper prices if you want
Someone else woud buy them and sell them for far more, i learned that the hard way s:

Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Oberyn on August 03, 2015, 02:59:14 pm
Inflation is obviously from gold gain being bumped up so high with last patch, not from 20 looms being put on the market, as others have pointed out.
Also, most people use the market very rarely and only because they want to use a new loom or sell an old one, and this is achieved much more easily by simply joining a clan with a large armory. Then there's the people for whom the marketplace is a mini metagame in itself, "only trade and want to suck as much money out of people as they can" is pretty much the goal and how they "win" at it. Using other's impatience and/or ignorance is the only way to do it.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Novamere on August 03, 2015, 04:48:58 pm
Playing all day with a x5 for 2 day i can retire thats 800k for 2 days of nonstop play not inlcuding the other 150k or so id make from playing...............that is some unreal bullshit please someone fix this
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: pepejul on August 03, 2015, 04:50:31 pm
Allow free loomed stuff change and market will die...

I ve 13 +3 to change plz !
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: BlackxBird on August 03, 2015, 04:53:50 pm
For a normal lp atm you need 800 k gold.
800.000 / 750 = 1066
Which means you gotta play 1066 minutes with x5
Which means you gotta play 17 hours with x5.

erm.. lol. The price is kinda fair  :shock:

Edit: forgot about the repair costs :3
Fuck this price, it's ridiculous!  :twisted:
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Bronto on August 03, 2015, 05:19:50 pm
I think you should be allowed to reforge any item at any loom level for a cost and receive the exact loom points you put into said item. +1 = 1 loom point, etc. Also, just because a point is listed for 800k doesn't mean you have to buy it. Maybe retire once in a while and make your own points. You level hoarding shitlords.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Nehvar on August 03, 2015, 05:56:26 pm
Free. Exchanges.  We need them. 
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: pepejul on August 03, 2015, 07:13:05 pm
yep
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Mlekce on August 03, 2015, 07:16:09 pm
Do that, and you can freely delete the market.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Aprikose on August 03, 2015, 08:08:48 pm
ban pls.

EDIT:
Quote from: Bronto on August 03, 2015, 05:19:50 pm
You level hoarding shitlords.
YES!
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: JasonPastman on August 03, 2015, 08:32:51 pm
Quote from: skeletzo on August 03, 2015, 11:29:08 am
As some of you might have noticed, the market has been destroyed, by none other than Dave and some other dudes who only trade and want to suck as much money out of people as they can.

The price of current loompoints has gone up so much now, so much that the average player will not be able to buy a loompoint.
Masterwork prices have also gone up, but those are still doable


what to do against these massive douches?

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)


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Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: karasu on August 03, 2015, 08:36:54 pm
     It's nothing but an eventuality of a dying platform. The market is just a reflex of this. Now everyone has gold, everyone has +3 items, and those who try to get some for them without grinding on their own (which makes absolutely no sense anymore) will resort to buying loom points at the price of refined petrol.

 
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on August 03, 2015, 09:15:10 pm
ITT socialist europoors complain about capitalism
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: cup457 on August 04, 2015, 05:13:10 am
Lets fix market prices so no one uses the market anymore. THAT WILL FIX IT
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Finse on August 04, 2015, 11:20:02 am
This is the deal of the fucking decade.....

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Another one D-:
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Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: ArysOakheart on August 04, 2015, 11:47:46 am
I hate to say it, but I was a little upset I didn't know anything about the neckbeard 3 loom 600k sale when I had money. That shit sale should have continued for a long time after it was initiated. Now, instead of being able to buy 3 looms for 600k , I can buy one for 800k! I resist giving into neckbeardery for heirlooming my Peasant Knife. I guess ill have to resort to heirlooming the old fashion way, retiring and all that shit.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: pepejul on August 04, 2015, 12:24:21 pm
PEPE is true communist :

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 (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=409271armurery.jpg)

Share all +3 stuff withclanmates... play naked !

(join PEPE clan to use pepe's stuff for free)
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 04, 2015, 12:45:07 pm
It would be nice to have atleast one heirloom exchange per week, when the next patch comes out soon™
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Tore on August 04, 2015, 12:53:25 pm
The marked was fucked over after the big "revival" patch. If you don't want those evil capitalists to profit, just find someone else and do a trade with them so the marked players are forced to lower their prices.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Finse on August 04, 2015, 02:13:48 pm
i Made a post about master Jew Dave once, admins didnt like it and thougt it was spam :huehue:
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Turkhammer on August 04, 2015, 06:20:57 pm
Quote from: Finse on August 04, 2015, 02:13:48 pm
i Made a post about master Jew Dave once, admins didnt like it and thougt it was spam :huehue:

I prefer to think they didn't like your nasty, hateful and stereotypical use of the word Jew in a derogatory way.  But that's just me being optimistic and giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Rhekimos on August 05, 2015, 02:28:52 am
I checked how many people were selling loompoints against how many people were buying.

15 people had offers to buy a loompoint.

4 people had offers to sell a loompoint.

3 out of the 4 people selling were also buying loompoints for cheap.

So we have a lot of demand and 1 pristine loompoint entering the market via a sell offer. Prices are guaranteed to hike up until more people sell. Though the people with a lot of points might not want to sell their caches of loompoints for gold, with gold going rapidly down in real value.

Some factors for the gold going down in real value are:

- Upkeep not being a problem.
    Light-to-medium armor agi builds are the favored playstyle by the current patch. Horse prices were halved too.
- A big increase in gold gain per time played.
    Both DTV and battle are gold mines.
- Gold sinks are ineffective.
    People trade with loompoints instead of gold to go around the tax. They don't play the lottery anymore. Free respecs took out the fight of training lessons auctions. The only sink still doing good is custom titles, with prices going up to 1 mil.
- Strat is dead.
    No quick retirements with strat xp.
- The market is dying.
    Gold is only useful if you can do something with it. With very few trades in the market, the potential of gold to actually do something goes down accordingly.

In my opinion, booths are in part guilty in killing the market as it allows a few privileged actors with enough capital to set prices as they wish. And we've had two actors buying up all the booths for some months now. And they aren't selling any of their loompoints, but they are too using them as a currency to buy up +3 items instead, with 2 LP + gold trades, almost exclusively. I guess they also think that gold will only reduce in real value in the future.

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When this newest booth auction ends, I'm fairly certain no new booth user enters the fray to compete with prices. Again.

By the way, this was booth situation at the time of that screenshot, in case anyone wants to see if my prediction holds.
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TL;DR Gold is just plain worth less and less.


There are some things that could be done to remedy this situation:
 - Fix strat so the XP and gold gain balance is restored somewhat. (You only get XP from strat, no gold.)
 - Remove booths to even the market and add more competition to prices.  (This removes a small goldsink but it would also remove a factor that is depressing the market, a big net positive.)
 - Add more vanity gold sinks like the titles.
 - Tweak the tax.
 - Think up new things to do with gold.
And some more painful options:
 - Reduce gold gain.
 - Greatly increase upkeep.



Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: BlackxBird on August 05, 2015, 03:10:50 am
just give us expensive purchable heirloom exchanges. like for 400 K or sth, so it can't be like oh ye, lets change that and that, oh and that and that.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Rhekimos on August 05, 2015, 03:27:25 am
Quote from: BlackxBird on August 05, 2015, 03:10:50 am
just give us expensive purchable heirloom exchanges. like for 400 K or sth, so it can't be like oh ye, lets change that and that, oh and that and that.

Good idea, that would help anchor the value of gold to heirlooms, giving gold some more stability; like how using 3 lps is firmly anchored to getting any +3 item you want. And it would be a new action you can do with gold.
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: BlackxBird on August 05, 2015, 03:33:59 am
OMG :O GIVE US ANOUNCEMENTS.

Like when u have +10 mio you are that and that rich.
with 50 mio you are like badass as fuck and get a rank for that! THAT WOULD BE GREAT

So I mean on the server. Id fucking try to get that 10 mio imo and wouldn't sell them anymore :D
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 05, 2015, 03:53:35 am
well, then we would probably have walls of purple text. No thanks  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: BlackxBird on August 05, 2015, 10:30:45 am
well, than make it only one title and u get this one with 30 mio. So ppl who actually want it have to spent tons of loomz to get it, cuz I don't think anyone got spare 30 mio somewhere xD
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Zeltino on August 05, 2015, 11:38:32 am
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I really liked the stuff you pointed out, except the following:


Quote from: Rhekimos on August 05, 2015, 02:28:52 am
In my opinion, booths are in part guilty in killing the market as it allows a few privileged actors with enough capital to set prices as they wish. And we've had two actors buying up all the booths for some months now.

Me and Pony have like no influence on Loompoint prices, since both of us barely ever put up offers to buy/sell them.


Quote from: Rhekimos on August 05, 2015, 02:28:52 am
And they aren't selling any of their loompoints
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You can't read, can you?


Quote from: Rhekimos on August 05, 2015, 02:28:52 am
but they are too using them as a currency to buy up +3 items instead, with 2 LP + gold trades, almost exclusively

As far as i know almost everyone does this (and its pretty much always been like this).
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Rhekimos on August 08, 2015, 12:56:43 am
Quote from: Zeltino on August 05, 2015, 11:38:32 am
Me and Pony have like no influence on Loompoint prices, since both of us barely ever put up offers to buy/sell them.

I wasn't saying that you personally have been influencing loompoint prices, not significantly, and not directly by trading loompoints. If you read carefully, I said that a booth user could influence loomprices much more than an ordinary seller. And essentially dominate the loompoint market. Which has happened most of the time whenever a booth user has really involved themselves in the loompoint trade.

My point against the booths was and is that they are by nature very anti-competitive. You know, exactly the kind of thing that governments IRL try to discourage because it kills real economies too. And when the economy suffers, so suffers the usefulness of the dollar/euro/gold.
It has been like this since booths were first introduced and I raised the same general points about how they will be bad for the market overall way back then as well.

They are a structure that weakens the market by their very existence.

Quote from: Zeltino on August 05, 2015, 11:38:32 am
You can't read, can you?

I'm not saying that you are evil for holding onto your loompoints and using them to trade as you wish, that's only your right. They are yours.
Or only offering private trades and not influencing the loompoint trade by competing with prices.
I don't even know how much you do that, since I don't see it happening. But you yourself said you barely do it.

If the devs added a rentable 40 pierce katana to the game, it would be everyone's right to use such an item. My point is that it might not be very good for the game to add something like that in the first place.

And the booths are a competition skullcrusher +3.
 
Quote from: Zeltino on August 05, 2015, 11:38:32 am
As far as i know almost everyone does this (and its pretty much always been like this).

As for trading 2 LP + gold to items, I meant to say that it's the smart thing to do. Not a bad thing for the economy either, as there's at least something moving in the market. And I used it as an example of how gold is less useful as a currency, than loompoints, as indicated by people preferring to trade with loompoints instead. Including you two, who don't even need to pay tax on gold trades.


Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 08, 2015, 03:17:57 pm
Zeltino has been giving the best trades on the market, some good stuff for 2lps and 119k, wich is way lower than any looms now. He has been downing the price of looms more than he is making it higher
Title: Re: Market fucking
Post by: Rhekimos on August 08, 2015, 06:39:27 pm
Quote from: skeletzo on August 08, 2015, 03:17:57 pm
Zeltino has been giving the best trades on the market, some good stuff for 2lps and 119k, wich is way lower than any looms now. He has been downing the price of looms more than he is making it higher

Look, I'm not saying that Zeltino is a bad guy. I'm saying that the market booths were a bad idea from the very beginning.

If he's being a nice guy and trading fair, all the more respect to him.