cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Legs on March 07, 2015, 02:33:56 am

Title: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Legs on March 07, 2015, 02:33:56 am
Polearm right swing is THE most used attack out of all of them in the whole world and looks 10x goofier than the 2h thrust.

Pls fix this, mirror the left swing or something.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Tiger on March 07, 2015, 05:14:05 am
If you hold a weapon, you would probably have one side swing slightly different with the dominant hand/arm. It's like a baseball bat, you're not going to switch the right and left hand grip on your handle to make each side swing symmetrical. You're going to stick with one side more.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Rando on March 07, 2015, 05:57:05 am
Full support, the polearm swings are pretty spastic.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Golem on March 07, 2015, 06:24:52 am
+1 to make teh right swing as fast and deadly as left  :P
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Jona on March 07, 2015, 09:43:03 am
I think half the people reading this don't know their right from their left... the OP is referring to the polearm right-to-left swing, you know.. the actually useable polearm sideswing.

For those wondering why it is the most used polearm animations, it is quite simple:
 
A) it has the most reach of all the pole animations; the stab may reach farther, but glances at any distance near its max reach
B) the left swing sucks donkey dick
C) the pole overhead is a lot harder to land than a 1hand or 2hander overhead which is swung pretty much vertically - the polearm overhead is swung diagonally
D) pole stab is ironically the weakest stab (now it is perhaps tied with 2handers), save for longer 2d weapons with higher pierce damage

Now that that mystery is solved, let's ponder why 1handers only stab!
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Akavirius on March 07, 2015, 09:50:37 am
It's not about a swing "slightly different". In real life the right swing portrayed in the game would be weak and slow as fuck, and a mere hit to the weapon would disarm you. (you don't ever cross your arms like that, unless you want to be disarmed) In real life, you would change your grip if you wanted to do a right swing, or you wouldn't do a right swing at all and stick to the other directions of attack.

One thing that could be done if you really wanted to attack from the right without changing your grip would be a hit with the back of the polearm. It would still be somewhat weak, but less, much less goofy looking.

Edit : I don't care about gameplay elements like balance and "OMG POLARM OP PLZ NERF". Balance can be discussed later.

Edit2 : The left swing is the fastest (read the only useful swing) of them all. I remember when i thought that reach was the most important and used only stab and right swing. I got killed all the time because of facehugging 2handers.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Byrdi on March 07, 2015, 10:12:20 am
The only reason why right swing is used so often is because left and stab (at least on non spear weapons) swings are so bad in comparison.
It is really flawed to compare polearms to 1h and 2h. Because 2h has 3 good attack direction (left, right, and overhead) and all of 1h four attack directions are pretty decent nowadays.

In fact the 1h right swing is far better than polearms right swing. Since 1h swing adds far more range and is a lot faster and easier to aim for head shots.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Kadeth on March 07, 2015, 10:28:01 am
Quote from: Akavirius on March 07, 2015, 09:50:37 am
In real life

Realism in cRPG? Don't even bother at this stage.

The polearm right swing definitely feels like it has the largest sweet spot. But I feel like 1h still has the best animations all round.

In an ideal world, each class would have equally strong animations. But how much can we expect from a free mod?
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2015, 10:35:18 am
Is this for real?
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Akavirius on March 07, 2015, 10:35:37 am
Quote from: Kadeth on March 07, 2015, 10:28:01 am
Realism in cRPG? Don't even bother at this stage. [...] But how much can we expect from a free mod?

Well, much better than Chivalry.

By realism, I mean : no exploits, and minimal min-maxing. But i guess most people don't want realism from all I read on the forum and only want an arcadey gamey game.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Teeth on March 07, 2015, 10:36:03 am
Quote from: Jona on March 07, 2015, 09:43:03 am
C) the pole overhead is a lot harder to land than a 1hand or 2hander overhead which is swung pretty much vertically - the polearm overhead is swung diagonally
It's the other way around. The pole overhead goes exactly vertically through the center of your screen, the 2h overhead doesn't. Polearm overhead is the easiest to hit with, at least until they fucked up the hit detection when they sped it up.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Rebelyell on March 07, 2015, 12:19:08 pm
It is very reson why I dont play pole.
I always find myself spam right swing.

Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Jona on March 07, 2015, 12:26:20 pm
Quote from: Teeth on March 07, 2015, 10:36:03 am
The pole overhead goes exactly vertically through the center of your screen, the 2h overhead doesn't.

...No, no it doesn't. If you want to hit someone in the head you need to aim at their right shoulder, or slighty to the left of their head, from your perspective. This is why landing overheads with really long polearms can prove difficult until you get used to it. The 2handed overhead isn't perfectly vertical, however it's a lot closer to the 1handed (which is pretty much vertical) overhead than it is the pole.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: korppis on March 07, 2015, 12:43:50 pm
Quote from: Byrdi on March 07, 2015, 10:12:20 am
In fact the 1h right swing is far better than polearms right swing. Since 1h swing adds far more range and is a lot faster and easier to aim for head shots.

Don't forget that 1h also has nearly no turnrate penalties.

Quote from: Jona on March 07, 2015, 12:26:20 pm
...No, no it doesn't. If you want to hit someone in the head you need to aim at their right shoulder, or slighty to the left of their head, from your perspective. This is why landing overheads with really long polearms can prove difficult until you get used to it. The 2handed overhead isn't perfectly vertical, however it's a lot closer to the 1handed (which is pretty much vertical) overhead than it is the pole.

This. Trying to bash gates with full lineup always scares the hell out of me because it looks like I have to aim too close to teammate just to hit the door. With 2h and 1h it's so much easier to aim overheads.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2015, 01:35:25 pm
If anything id rather have them make the left swing more viable, over nerfing the right swing. I think i've heard that left swing is suppose to be faster, but i use it constantly and it actually feels way slower. Speed it up/make it more hiltslashable and there would be a bigger mix in polearm swings.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Akavirius on March 07, 2015, 01:48:15 pm
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2015, 01:35:25 pm
If anything id rather have them make the left swing more viable, over nerfing the right swing. I think i've heard that left swing is suppose to be faster, but i use it constantly and it actually feels way slower. Speed it up/make it more hiltslashable and there would be a bigger mix in polearm swings.

It's nothing about nerfing or buffing any attack. It's about changing a goofy-looking animation. I tested it personally : the left swing has a shorter reach but is slightly faster than the right swing.
Don't facehug with a polearm, of course hiltslashes will deal low damage.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Leshma on March 07, 2015, 02:37:57 pm
Quote from: korppis on March 07, 2015, 12:43:50 pm
Don't forget that 1h also has nearly no turnrate penalties.

Turn rate penalty is calculated based on length of a wepon, if I'm not mistaken. Think there are different values for every class, just like different length of every class doesn't  affect your athletics in the same way. For example, you'll feel less penalty on your acceleration with Spear if you're polearmer than you would with Arabian Cav Sword as 1H. And Spear is obviously longer.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Leshma on March 07, 2015, 02:40:21 pm
Quote from: Akavirius on March 07, 2015, 01:48:15 pm
It's nothing about nerfing or buffing any attack. It's about changing a goofy-looking animation.

If that's the case, please don't touch it. The most goofy looking animations are in fact those that were touched by cRPG developers. And new 2H stab is the pinnacle of their work. If you think that current right pole swing animation is bad, wait and see what they can cook up and you'll change your opinion in no time.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Teeth on March 07, 2015, 03:08:14 pm
Quote from: Jona on March 07, 2015, 12:26:20 pm
...No, no it doesn't. If you want to hit someone in the head you need to aim at their right shoulder, or slighty to the left of their head, from your perspective. This is why landing overheads with really long polearms can prove difficult until you get used to it. The 2handed overhead isn't perfectly vertical, however it's a lot closer to the 1handed (which is pretty much vertical) overhead than it is the pole.
I guess you are talking about the borked hit detection, while I am talking about the visual animation and placing that where you want it. The speed-up of the polearm overhead was when the bullshit started with the hit detection, before that the overhead was a tool of surgical precision, very easy to line-up. Would be pretty sweet if that got fixed somehow.

What is wrong with how the right-swing looks? I absolutely have no idea what you are on about.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2015, 03:39:35 pm
Like teeth said, ive never even thought about the looks of the swing, it looks completely fine to me.
Title: Re: Remove Polearm Right Swing
Post by: Akavirius on March 07, 2015, 03:50:04 pm
Quote from: Teeth on March 07, 2015, 03:08:14 pm
What is wrong with how the right-swing looks? I absolutely have no idea what you are on about.

The arms cross when arming the right swing. In the same way it does with the 2h stab. Crossed arms stances are highly unstable and weak (and look ridiculous because of that).

From a gameplay point of view it isn't really a big problem though, but from a realism point of view it's ridiculous.
I'll try to do a quick drawing to show what I mean.

On a side note, this is what the 2handed thrust stance should be
(click to show/hide)