cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 12:29:55 am

Title: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 12:29:55 am
These two places on this map were not intended. I witnessed admins stating it, warning people for it and awarding kicks for stubborn breachers. As you can see in the screenshot below, that fallen tower piece (it looks like one at least) can be climbed by attackers if they walk to the far left. A ranged character can then safely shoot defenders from behind while his teammates are rampaging below. Defenders cannot reach that place, although by the looks of it, one is supposed to be able to get to that place from the defending side as well.
(click to show/hide)

Same place, same old shit. Walking far left again, an attacker can jump in from that crack in the wall.
(click to show/hide)

As I said, I witnessed admin action being taken and I don't think these two glitchy spots were intended at all. Problem is that the crpg crowd, which is known to be sometimes even more retarded than spoiled little kids, don't give a fuck. Everytime this map is on, at least one slut will mount himself on that tower to safely shoot people and several others will think they are way too smart to just play a regular game, fight people and make their way to the breach. Why the fuck would one do that when you can walk along the wall and jump in? Right?

Just today, I warned and warned and warned people. Only to see more retards pouring in. Gotta say the one ranged person I warned stopped shooting from atop that place. But the wall jumpers didn't stop.

Now, please do tell me that there is an active scene editor who can fix that part of the map and add the fix to the upcoming patch. Please... I know it is easier said than done but please make that part just a solid tall wall that can surely ward off smartasses.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Tuetensuppe on February 14, 2015, 01:57:26 am
will do it (hope i got it right - about the problem) tomorrow and give it to fips
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 02:00:30 am
Many thanks Tueten.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Peasant_Woman on February 14, 2015, 12:24:23 pm
Thanks Tuetensuppe!
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: AwesomeHail on February 14, 2015, 12:52:11 pm
Yep - complained about it with cocky the same time. Bopca_The_Grey repeatedly shot from the area from the first screen.
when we told him that was bannable he shot two more times and fucked off :)
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 12:58:10 pm
Wish the wall jumpers also fucked off. I warned one, two more just flooded in over the wall. I miss the days when I was naive enough to believe that crpg players were overall the ideal gaming community, but it is now clear as day that trolly retardation is all over the place (no offense to tons of the great people I know).
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Moncho on February 14, 2015, 01:04:54 pm
What? I thought that window was intentional as a way to sneak into the breach, otherwise it is often untakeable. The breach in that map is a far too good point with only one narrow way in, it should be revised imo.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 01:07:31 pm
The breach may require revision. It is true. But there is no way that it could have been intended. And that aside, I would like to ask you one question only Moncho: Would you insist on repeatedly doing the same shit despite the fact that somebody told you that it is an abuse and was punished before by admins?
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Moncho on February 14, 2015, 01:12:00 pm
In general no, but in this case the breach is such an unbalanced bitch to take that I may say fuck all and keep doing it, if only to have a chance at taking the flag.
I know its stupid and its trying to fix a problem by creating another, but I have charged head on into the breach completely uselessly to care.

Also bear in mind that I am talking about a couple months ago, when I last played some time, now with smaller population it may be a bit less broken, but when the servers were full it was pretty much an inevitable loss

EDIT: Also, I am only talking about jumping through the ruined window, not shooting from the tower, I don't agree with the tower (since it is unreachable for defenders)
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 01:18:28 pm
I understand where you are coming from. But there are solutions even for taking that bitchy flag other than doing desperate stuff (still not denying that the place requires a revision), like swiftly sneaking in as a group of 3-4 probably on horseback and patiently hiding at the breach while your team captures the front flag. Believe me, I myself did it alone many times and even the presence of just 1 attacker before defenders can recover and start defending the breach makes a huge change. Still, I know this is just a workaround.



This (the part in bold) is also the very reason why that window can't have been intended. If you can just walk your way in without even coming across any defenders and them seeing you, you just quickly shatter all of their chances of defending the place, as the breach is the strongest defense point and the rest of the flags are pretty much meaningless.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Moncho on February 14, 2015, 01:49:06 pm
A single defender at the breach also changes things a lot, as we both know since we both have been on both sides facing each other and trying to gain position of the breach for our teams. And it is a second layer, so there is plenty of time to react to anything sneaky around it, respawns arent that long.
If it was a bigger spot, I would agree, but it is a place where attackers can only get in one at a time, which makes it much less useful in terms of being something other than a situational option. A force assault using it is not viable as you have to cap the first flag beforehand, which will not happen if you have a medium group at another flag altogether, and a small group capping can be prevented by respawns (and its not really sneaky as you can see it easily from the top down view).

My point wasn't so much about sneaking in, which is a valid tactic, as there are plenty of backdoors and other hidden sneaking routes to flags in other maps, but rather that once the defenders are on it, the attackers are left with a single way in. It is then that having another way in (going through the window or some alternative) becomes important, as it disrupts the easy hold that the defenders set up otherwise.

I understand that i twas unintentional, but sometimes unintentional things turn out great, like imo this one and there is no real need to remove it.
As I see it, it is not large enough to be a real issue, but as it exists it gives a useful way to break the stalemate in the other single chokepoint.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 14, 2015, 02:13:35 pm
As I said, I see your point. But the entire problem has to be fixed with a revision of the map. That flag forces not only attackers but also defenders to amass all resources to a single point ahead of the flag. It is not just the attackers that are getting bottlenecked.

Because of that the vicinity of the flag is mostly ignored by defenders. Then a good player (like Viking_Berserk from yesterday) can jump in and finish off the 2-3 players who are around the flag in an instant. Note that 1 of those people will be blindly aiming at the ballista and the 2 other probably afk (or they would have charged out anyway).

The problem is obvious. We need a bit larger an area that is accessible from more directions.

But essentially, things like these are why I don't like conquest. In every map, there is this one excessively defensive spot that can be defended for hours as long as defenders are not clueless idiots. At least you have that single flag on regular siege which can be attacked from multiple directions and requires both teams to act more carefully.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Tuetensuppe on February 16, 2015, 07:59:38 pm
short update:

I had no time so far to fix it ... Will try to get a look on it the next days or may someone wanna take over? Shouldnt be a lot of work ;)



Cheers
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Tuetensuppe on February 21, 2015, 01:38:45 am
done...pls check and tell me if i fixed the right positions...


request 1
(click to show/hide)

request 2
(click to show/hide)


if you wanna test/have a closer look:
(click to show/hide)




if it is all fine -> i will give it to fips

if you have more stuff to be changed on other maps -> tell me now ;)
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 21, 2015, 02:33:55 am
Seems quite fine to me. At least attackers will have another route in and defenders will know that they have to defend that spot too now.

I would like to suggest another change too. I don't have screenshots but the point I will be mentioning is on Bertreford Keep. Here is the screen taken from the map rotation thread:
(click to show/hide)

On the left side of this castle is a door. The door is not on ground level. It is slightly up on the wall. And there is a pond beneath it. The door was never meant to be used by attackers. Obviously it was placed just to add flavor to the map and troll attackers. It is normally unreachable but attackers almost always use siege shields, stakes and other construction stuff to reach it. I have also witnessed admin action being taken for that. Countless times. After all, using construction items to reach normally unreachable points is bannable. Well, again, people simply don't listen.

You might want to put that door on ground level. But I wouldn't advise it. It would practically make it too easy for attackers to invade and a bitch for defenders to defend. I would like to ask you to remove that side door altogether. Obviously attackers will never stop using siege items to reach it. It is the same problem as above. You may kick and ban tens of people for the same shit but they will do it over and over again.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Tuetensuppe on February 21, 2015, 02:25:40 pm
done:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-26201501/bert.keep.png.html)


next? ;)

Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 21, 2015, 02:50:11 pm
I am pretty sure I would come up with more if I kept thinking, but I am more than glad that somebody is paying immediate attention and has already solved 2 foul issues.

Thanks a ton Tueten. You the man!  :D
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Leshma on February 21, 2015, 04:56:37 pm
On that map, attackers spawning inside the castle is quite frequent. Must be because of the small size of the castle.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 21, 2015, 05:14:52 pm
Good point Leshma. There is actually a problem with attackers occasionally spawning inside in that castle.

Also pm'd you Tueten. As it is nothing private, might as well write it down here too: The new trollish look of the side door is great, but it would be preferable if you added more planks to the door to prevent my old friendchers from sniping defenders there.
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Tuetensuppe on February 21, 2015, 05:24:53 pm
Quote from: Leshma on February 21, 2015, 04:56:37 pm
On that map, attackers spawning inside the castle is quite frequent. Must be because of the small size of the castle.

nah it shouldnt be about size... its about spawnpoints -> in siege you set 32 spawn points for both sides...so i guess there is just a small mistake about spawns -> will check




update

couldnt find any problems about spawnpoints... so no idea right now why this is happening...
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Peasant_Woman on February 21, 2015, 05:38:31 pm
Same issue, yesterday I noticed defenders spawning outside that castle as well :|
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Hellsing on February 24, 2015, 10:53:19 am
@B2T: @Daunt_Flockula:
What does it mean not noticed? I supposed them to be there.
The window to acsess breach from attackers spawn, is realy hard to jump to and easy to kill players attempting to jump through it so it's kinda ninja - like the backdoor gate (wrench at ruins  (breach))

Spawnpoints are set correctly, checked this around 35times.. the ways this map got.. some of them are just useless ingame when you play it.. but when you plan it it's well different..

But nevermind :D Even wondering why this peace of crap is still on EU2
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on February 24, 2015, 06:39:57 pm
Well, I already exhausted my list of reasons why that place needs a fix Spanky. But the way Tueten fixed it, that map will no longer be such a pain in the ass for attackers. Not sure if that will be the case for defenders too. But we will see. At least there is a legit way in now :)
Title: Re: Fallen Abbey jump-in wall and sniping nest
Post by: Hellsing on February 24, 2015, 08:18:59 pm
:)
I guess I will have a look on eu2 for some time..
Firstly coming back into crpg just playing and sneaking around is my primary goal ;)
Still I will be faster than summer patch with this, though  :lol:
Stay tuned :3