cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: kojiro34 on December 16, 2014, 03:01:40 am

Title: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: kojiro34 on December 16, 2014, 03:01:40 am: Hey guys,
I want to know what is the best build /weapon to learn how to block. (level 34, since most of the time i am around 32-34)
Currently i switch between 2handed and polearm since i can do good and sometime very good but honestly no skill involved and any good player (even bad) kill me easly since my blocking isnt good. I suck.
What i did since the last 2 months (5 gen as mele)
A) i praticed a bit in warband against AI
B) i searched about video and info on web (i found many CRPG hack but no really good info about advanced tips since the game seem to have changed a lot)
C) Practicing to block

I know i will never be as good that many players since some of you are playing mele since 4 years, but still, it's crazy how some of you know how to move, how to block, turn over and hit, fast hit, etc...

Thank you !
Koj
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: HappyPhantom on December 16, 2014, 06:10:38 am: Just practice mate :)
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Torben on December 16, 2014, 10:31:11 am: ask in the servers once in a while, ther'll often be sb who will move to EU3 with you and give you hints first hand. also most larger clans have trainers that will work with you if you join them
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Grumbs on December 16, 2014, 11:21:02 am: Concentrate on learning the actual mechanics of blocking first by spending some time in the duel server. Don't try to kill the guys that are topping the scoreboard - go for guys with low KPD. Ideally you want to duel people that are a bit better than you but you aren't going to catch up with players that played for years already. Its going to take months to get there and theres no point wasting your time getting destroyed in quick duels

You can play against bots in single player or the tutorial. But like duelling, you don't want to get burned out doing repetitive stuff thats not fun for long periods, spend most of your time playing the actual game with a little training occasionally. Too much training might spoil the game

Always hold the block until you hear the weapon clash, and switch block direction if the enemy changes attack direction. Hold the block and rotate around and move so you keep some distance between you and the other guy. When you hear the clash the other guy gets a small stun that creates an "attack window" for you. For now just make a quick simple attack during that time. Your attack window depends on quite a few factors, especially your position and you don't always get a chance to attack before the other guy skips your turn. So you hold another block if you feel you need to. You can block multiple times in a row before you get a chance to attack, especially since the last patch were people have very high agi for positioning for attacks + high WPF for spamming. Just block them and move so they can't use footwork to spam

When you get decent at blocking and a bit better at the game you can start doing more advanced stuff with your attack window. You have holds (hold your attack a moment to mess up the rhythm of the fight + you do a bit more damage if you hold for a moment), feints (switch attack direction to trick the other player into blocking the wrong way), footwork, spamming

If you make a lot of mistakes switching block direction then you might need to turn the sensitivity down

Main thing though is to practice and play game modes you have fun on. The build is up to you. Use the character planner in the sticky here by San and make a build with maxed PS, AGI and WPF then dump some points into IF (i usually like at least 5 IF on my characters but its kind of optional). Try to split between STR and AGI (with maybe 3-6 difference between them) and play with 2 hander or pole for learning to block. Don't take anything too slow for now. I'd go for 95+ speed and avoid weapons with unbalanced stat
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2014, 01:34:58 pm: The only way : lowest ping wins...
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Angantyr on December 16, 2014, 04:21:31 pm: Spend the first day block training against the bots in the tutorial until you can block effectively, going through the different difficulties. Then spend a few days to a week block training against bots for 15 min every day or so before going to a server and train blocks against players, preferably duel server until you're ready for siege or battle. Blocking should be in your muscle memory by then and you can rinse and repeat the same scheme with attacks mixed up with blocks. If you go at it methodically, it doesn't take long before you have the basics, and can start focusing on learning more advanced moves.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: pepejul on December 16, 2014, 05:00:21 pm: I started plyaing in 2010... I still don't know how to block properly.... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Shatter on December 16, 2014, 09:33:26 pm: Personally I think you learn blocking best from playing 1H without a shield. It is generally easiest to block when you S key because you can stay centered on the person you are fighting. Using a short weapon forces you to not rely on this advantage.

Another thing about blocking that people don't mention a lot is that blocking isn't just about raw reactions but can be about prediction as well. Based on your foot position relative to your enemy, people tend to throw out certain attacks. If you expect a certain attack direction, it makes it much easier to block. For example, left swings are generally very good on 1H (fast, aimed easily at head), so if I'm on the left side of the 1H, I generally expect a left swing. Or, if I am farther away from a 1H, he is much more likely to right swing or stab because they are longer reaching. You definitely can't just rely on prediction but it makes much easier to "react" if you see it coming.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: kojiro34 on December 16, 2014, 10:45:10 pm: Thanks for the tips,
I will probably do a mix of all of them and i will still play battle even if it's hard to learn there, i like it.
Ciao
Koj
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Leshma on December 17, 2014, 12:39:11 pm: Download autoblocker, they don't check for it anymore.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: RandomDude on December 17, 2014, 12:51:01 pm: For basic blocking, i would go into the sp tutorial and just try and block, dont attack back. 10 minutes a day of that will help you improve.

Play native siege/deathmatch and just practice blocking there too.

Duel servers will be too hard unless you can find someone of the same skill level, or who wants to help.

As for attacking effectively. I'm not one of the greats, but I think knowing about speed bonus/glancing helps a lot.

Judging weapon range is something i do a lot. I don't even try and block if I'm doing that, and sometimes I get it wrong and die.

Try and take control of the fight, if people are backing away from you, they are making you move towards them and if their weapon outranges you, you're not going to have the advantage.

Mixing things up, changing attacks/holds etc can help, changing the pace of the fight a few times if it's a good player.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: kwhy on December 17, 2014, 10:59:54 pm: you know CRPG and even M:BG would really benefit by adding in some sort of tutorial/trainer that allows players to use weapons/stats from ingame against AI much like DTV but offline. This would really help new players learn the basics and even learn how to chamber.

Without game modes like Siege or Native Deathmatch then I probably would have giving up trying to learn this game. I hated the fact I couldn't really practice playing offline against/with specific builds like 2H or POLE.

I would have loved to have some AI dueling trainer that allows you to pick your build and weapons along with your enemy's weapons/stats and even have it allow you to fight against more than one player.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: HappyPhantom on December 18, 2014, 05:35:24 am: Native Deathmatch worst place to learn to block, 1hit kills and constant backstabs.

Quote from: RandomDude on December 17, 2014, 12:51:01 pm
For basic blocking, i would go into the sp tutorial and just try and block, dont attack back. 10 minutes a day of that will help you improve.

Play native siege/deathmatch and just practice blocking there too.

Duel servers will be too hard unless you can find someone of the same skill level, or who wants to help.

As for attacking effectively. I'm not one of the greats, but I think knowing about speed bonus/glancing helps a lot.

Judging weapon range is something i do a lot. I don't even try and block if I'm doing that, and sometimes I get it wrong and die.

Try and take control of the fight, if people are backing away from you, they are making you move towards them and if their weapon outranges you, you're not going to have the advantage.

Mixing things up, changing attacks/holds etc can help, changing the pace of the fight a few times if it's a good player.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Snufalufagus on December 18, 2014, 05:54:31 am: There is no point in blocking in the new crpg.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 18, 2014, 01:49:39 pm: The warband tutorial is a great way to start of, it has a duel mode and you can I believe set the speed in your settings. You can even practice chambering like that.

Ask some people in the duel server, he can take a low damage weapon and give you some practice.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Nyu on December 18, 2014, 02:40:36 pm: I believe there are different training bots on the nditions duel-server in native. You could try fighting each of them.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: kojiro34 on December 19, 2014, 04:08:45 am: Yup a tutorial in crpg with bots !
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Kalam on December 21, 2014, 06:11:26 am: I'll give you a different answer. Not the answer, but what worked for me in 2010. It's harder to do this now, because of the playerbase, but it will train you faster than anything else if you're the sort that's alright with taking punishment.

Go 1h/no shield (alternatively, use a shield when ranged attack and put it away for melee) /light armor. This forces you to learn everything about melee fundamentals, from timing to blocking because everyone else will have an advantage. You'll have to be three times as attentive, patient, and smart.

But you will learn to be better if you stick with it. Every now and then, get on a 2h/polearm STF and you'll notice that the habits you learn as a 1h/no shield make you much, much better in those other classes. You may still lose a lot in your main, though. That's fine, so long as you learn from your losses.

Remember, the beauty of this game is simple: in Melee 1 on 1, you always die because of a mistake you made. Keep that in mind every time you get hit.

Edit: somehow, I missed Shatter's post, so the tl;dr is LISTEN TO SHATTER.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Utrakil on December 21, 2014, 01:47:08 pm: If you go to EU3 always bring a pair of wooden swords or staffs with you.
Drop one on the floor. Most oponents will understand and pick it up. this allows you longer matches without dying.
there is no training if you get oneshot by a mighty axe. but if you survive some hits you can learn much more about your oponents movement and action.
( I am still horribly bad at it and try not to get into 1v1 during battle)
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Leshma on December 21, 2014, 01:56:34 pm: Go EU3, be the best dueler on that server.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Ras_FrenzYYY on December 21, 2014, 06:02:02 pm: Quote from: kojiro34 on December 16, 2014, 03:01:40 am
Hey guys,
I want to know what is the best build /weapon to learn how to block. (level 34, since most of the time i am around 32-34)
Currently i switch between 2handed and polearm since i can do good and sometime very good but honestly no skill involved and any good player (even bad) kill me easly since my blocking isnt good. I suck.
What i did since the last 2 months (5 gen as mele)
A) i praticed a bit in warband against AI
B) i searched about video and info on web (i found many CRPG hack but no really good info about advanced tips since the game seem to have changed a lot)
C) Practicing to block

I know i will never be as good that many players since some of you are playing mele since 4 years, but still, it's crazy how some of you know how to move, how to block, turn over and hit, fast hit, etc...

Thank you !
Koj

You want the truth????
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: kojiro34 on December 22, 2014, 04:12:02 am: lol wich true ?
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Kadeth on December 22, 2014, 10:04:15 am: Quote from: pepejul on December 16, 2014, 01:34:58 pm
The only way : lowest ping wins...

ha ha

(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: pepejul on December 22, 2014, 12:56:11 pm: Ping IN FIGHT...

not ping when screened :rolleyes:
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Kadeth on December 23, 2014, 05:45:59 am: Quote from: pepejul on December 22, 2014, 12:56:11 pm
Ping IN FIGHT...

not ping when screened :rolleyes:

That's my normal ping on NA
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: WarLord on December 23, 2014, 08:36:32 am: Quote from: Ras_FrenzYYY on December 21, 2014, 06:02:02 pm

You want the truth????

Yes, please.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Radament on December 23, 2014, 05:05:43 pm: Quote from: Nyu on December 18, 2014, 02:40:36 pm
I believe there are different training bots on the nditions duel-server in native. You could try fighting each of them.

as he said , go on nditions or the ludus duel server on native and start with novice bots.
You must only parrying , not counterattack.
When you are confident about easy blocks , try with the advanced bots (always without attacking).
After that you can work on footwork with other players , cause bots are attacking pretty in front of you.
So , go duel someone is better than you (if you duel a novice like you you can't learn) and try to block swings in weird situations. adjust your mouse sensitivity if you need to.

that's all but most important thing is to have fun doing it , if you are bored of dueling or trying to do it , stop and do other things.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: pepejul on December 24, 2014, 08:22:51 am: my very personnal advice : Go on native singleplayer tutorial, learn block and attack good. Go duel servers, learn gud.

Come back to crpg and by that time there wont be anyone else playing so you'll never get hit again :) that's a 100% blocking success
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Belenos on December 24, 2014, 11:49:00 am: When i have start mount and blade and crpg in 2010 (i think :lol: ) , i have watched this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U
Since i have seen this video i m the best!
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on December 27, 2014, 10:54:48 am: Quote from: Kalam on December 21, 2014, 06:11:26 am
Go 1h/no shield (alternatively, use a shield when ranged attack and put it away for melee) /light armor. This forces you to learn everything about melee fundamentals, from timing to blocking because everyone else will have an advantage. You'll have to be three times as attentive, patient, and smart.

[...] get on a 2h/polearm STF and you'll notice that the habits you learn as a 1h/no shield make you much, much better in those other classes.

I finally got really good at manual blocking by playing an agility 1H/shielder. That may seem counter-intuitive since I had 8 shield skill, but I did not fight duel bots or join the duel server for practice. I would use my shield in teamfights, but when you are fighting a single enemy (alone or with teamates) put your shield away. With high agility/athletics you will frequently find yourself fighting 1v1 if you move aggressively during the round. When you close in on an enemy archer/xbow or cav who just lost their horse you could easily kill them with your shield. Go the hard and honorable way - sheath your shield and duel like a proper noble would.

It's great practice, and the satisfaction from beating someone in a duel without your shield and point investment in shield skill is a massive ego boost. Even if your team loses, you (and the guys you killed) know that you are the most skilled player.

After that gen as 1H/shield I went back to polearm and holy moley was I better at it! Nobody expects you to be a good blocker when you have a long maul or 2D polearm! :D
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: pepejul on December 27, 2014, 11:07:46 am: you speak the truth like always....
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: kwhy on December 27, 2014, 07:39:54 pm: are the nditions server even still up? I don't see it on native list and all threads on Talewords lead to it being shut down back in 2011-2012?

I've always been curious to try the bots, but have never been able to find it. Typically only see a few servers. I always here about this huge sub culture for Warband Native, but typically only see the GK servers packed (2 servers) and a few private servers set up occasionally for NA.
Title: Re: learning to block /attack effectively
Post by: Kadeth on December 30, 2014, 02:48:39 am: I like yedrellow's guide: http://steamcommunity.com//sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=122109980

Specifically how it talks about identifying what you're bad at and then exposing yourself to it.

"While I was learning the game for example, I was having a problem with being kickslashed. Rather than switching to a longer range weapon to decrease the chances of being kickslashed, I switched to a fighting pick (very low reach for those unfamiliar) and learned how to avoid kicks using that weapon. If I had avoided that problem by using higher reach weapons, I would still have that vulnerability."

Pretty straight forward, but it's worth a read.

All the good players I know started on the local native duel server using 1h only, losing over and over until they eventually became familiar with the animations. Like most others have said, 1h is the best way to start as it doesn't encourage reliance on back pedaling and high damage as much.