cRPG

Melee: Battlegrounds => General => Topic started by: Konrax on December 07, 2014, 06:02:37 pm

Title: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Konrax on December 07, 2014, 06:02:37 pm
Bad blocks should reduce the durability of the weapon.

It was common in melee combat in the past that weapons would often break, and carrying extra weapons was always a must.

Long Sword / Short Sword / Dagger was almost always a staple to any well equipped soldier.

Perfect blocks should not reduce the durability at all, sloppy blocks should reduce it significantly.

Just a thought.


EDIT: Just an important note on mechanics, if you switch to another weapon you should actually just drop it and unsheathe the next weapon, as was common during battle. In order to "put away" a weapon, you should first sheathe it and then draw the next one.

The idea of that is to save time when it is needed most.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: pogosan on December 07, 2014, 07:14:05 pm
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Byrdi on December 07, 2014, 08:37:41 pm
To me weapon degradation is a bad idea.
The game should be about fighting people as much as you want. You shouldn't get tied down because your weapon "broke" or is close to.

Honestly, the guy who has been fighting and killing people throughout the whole round should have at least as a good a fighting chance as someone who hasn't been fighting at all (hiders/delayers/people who just didn't happen to meet an enemy).

I would much rather see bad blocks have impact on the actual fighting e.g. resulting in a weapon stun.

Anyway nice to see people on the forums making suggestions again :D
Like your sheathing idea though. It would make sense and always bring some balance to the whole ranged kiting, since they wouldn't be able to switch back and forth between melee and ranged weapons as easily.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Leshma on December 07, 2014, 08:55:23 pm
If your weapon breaks, pick up another one.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Bittersteel on December 07, 2014, 09:31:55 pm
Quote from: Leshma on December 07, 2014, 08:55:23 pm
If your weapon breaks, pick up another one.

Let's narrow it down to twenty people. Five die before your weapon breaks. Two of those corpses are no way near you. Two of the remaining three corpses that you can access are ranged. The last available corpse has a dagger or another shit weapon that you can't fight with. Yay, you die cause of a stupid feature.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Grumbs on December 07, 2014, 09:46:57 pm
This is one of those things that would probably not be worth the time spent developing. I don't think it would add much to the gameplay. If you want to punish bad blocking then just reduce the enemies natural weapon stun when you make a bad block (or some other game mechanic like that). Realism does not always = fun gameplay. If we had an unbreakable secondary weapon you could block with as soon as your primary broke it might be possible to implement, but its still most likely a waste of programming time that could be spent on other stuff
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: lombardsoup on December 07, 2014, 10:04:30 pm
Quote from: Leshma on December 07, 2014, 08:55:23 pm
If your weapon breaks, pick up another one.

But the weeaboo 2h heroes want to RP with their unbreakable damascus fantasy bullshit katanas folded over 9000 times

Add weapon damage, with certain types of weapons being more susceptible to damage than others.  Please don't cop out and go the cRPG "weapons tax every few minutes" route.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: [ptx] on December 07, 2014, 10:09:39 pm
Sounds terrible. Do not want.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Thryn on December 07, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
I could argue against the OP for days, but if you want to see weapons breaking in a game: WotR

This is where gameplay > realism, don't break swords devs
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Leshma on December 07, 2014, 11:08:00 pm
Quote from: Bittersteel on December 07, 2014, 09:31:55 pm
Let's narrow it down to twenty people. Five die before your weapon breaks. Two of those corpses are no way near you. Two of the remaining three corpses that you can access are ranged. The last available corpse has a dagger or another shit weapon that you can't fight with. Yay, you die cause of a stupid feature.

There's always a weapon near you, if you have the right build (100 million XP earned on battle playing as scavenger) :P

But you're right to some extent, and that is why I would like to see martial arts in this type of game, grappling moves and ways to fight armed opponents while being unarmed, to steal his weapon etc. Integrating that kind of gameplay into typical Warband combat mechanics and doing it right (no context sensitive qte bullshit, proper fighting system like in Overgrowth) would be true innovation and a great achievement.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on December 08, 2014, 12:35:49 am
Quote from: Bittersteel on December 07, 2014, 09:31:55 pm
Let's narrow it down to twenty people. Five die before your weapon breaks. Two of those corpses are no way near you. Two of the remaining three corpses that you can access are ranged. The last available corpse has a dagger or another shit weapon that you can't fight with. Yay, you die cause of a stupid feature.

Actually, you die because you're a stupid player and failed to block correctly.

Quote from: Havelle Registered Voter on December 08, 2014, 12:03:17 am
What about 1hs with a shield? Your class OP, the one that would suffer the least from this.

Shields should also be able to bad block. A shield is not supposed to be held out motionless to deflect all incoming blows.

Quote from: Thryn on December 07, 2014, 10:22:46 pm
I could argue against the OP for days, but if you want to see weapons breaking in a game: WotR

This is where gameplay > realism, don't break swords devs

I never saw anyone complain about the weapon breaking in WotR. It happened very rarely, only after considerable use and you always had a backup weapon, because players used realistic equipment, which is discouraged in c-rpg by upkeep.


I like the idea, but the balance has to be right or it could be disasterous.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Primo on December 08, 2014, 12:55:48 am
If this exists probably it should be relative on weapon x weapon, like a sword hitting a sword won't do much of a damage, but now a maul against a sword in upper block probably would bend/break it and kill you on the same hit.

WotR have some pretty decent hitbox, and my weapon did broke there like 4 or 5 times, when i was defending upwards, against an axe or anything heavier than my greatsword. But again, people there is more occupied spamming than defending, since defending doenst gives you any bonus and you probably can lose your weapon in the process. Close, but no cigar
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Bittersteel on December 08, 2014, 10:05:39 am
Quote from: MeevarTheMighty on December 08, 2014, 12:35:49 am
Actually, you die because you're a stupid player and failed to block correctly.

Do you not see what's so stupid with this? cRPG players for an example (Most of us) will steamroll cause we know how to block properly, while new players... well you get the point... I wouldn't pay 50 dollars or whatever the price will be when it comes out to come across that I'm a "Stupid player that doesn't know how to block" and immediately quit cause I can't do shit. That's how most games die out, by adding stupid features that ruin gameplay.

Like Grumbs said, Realism doesn't = Fun/Gameplay.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: MeevarTheMighty on December 08, 2014, 11:58:26 am
You'd rather a game where nobody can tell who the noobs are? Everyone should perform like champions and never die? I don't think this is supposed to be that kind of game.

The trick to a system like this is having some degree of tolerance, so players probably won't get hit with it until they are fairly profficient at doing bad blocks.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Bittersteel on December 08, 2014, 12:33:33 pm
You mean that in Warband no one can tell who the noobs are? No, that can't be it since the most easy thing in Warband IS to spot a noob who can't block. So I doubt that's what you're saying. You must mean then that Warband has breakable weapons if you make a bad block. Wow, I never noticed!

Don't touch the subject of breakable weapons and I guarantee that nothing of what you're describing will happen. Warband didnt have breakable weapons, and it didn't happen for Warband, so why should it happen here?
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: AvengerC47 on December 08, 2014, 01:09:48 pm
I have different question

In crpg we have 4 blocks
blocking with shorter weapon than body is still a block even if attack will be to legs
but in melee we heard that block will be only when two weapons collide
so how to block with short weapon? will be "right click + mouse to left/right and then down" to turn weapon upsidedown to cover legs (like in image)?
(click to show/hide)
but even with that you can't block leg attack when you have weapon shorter than from knee to foot unless you can bend legs then (but then... it will be automatic or you will need to use crouch?)
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Konrax on December 26, 2014, 11:19:14 pm
In all honesty the reasons people list here is exactly why broad short swords were such popular side arm weapons.

They were sturdy and reliable weapons with a nice size pommel to both balance the weight and make it easier to keep in your grip (and absorb) during impacts from fighting.

There are those people who have vision for games like this, and those who want crpg with prettier graphics.

I think a combination of weapon stun / weapon degradation would be excellent to help balance better weapons. A trade off for example between amazing damage / speed and reliability in combat.

Next I also think that personally I think stabs should have a much longer delay depending on the level of armour the enemy player being hit has on. It was a common occurrence on the battlefield that enemies in heavy armour were often found with weapons still impaled in them because it would be so difficult sometimes to get the weapons back.

Honestly history has a lot to teach as to why certain weapons were better than others and used for various reasons, and although it is truly a challenge to translate such things into a computer game, it is the attempt at this that separates truly amazing games and children's games.
Title: Re: Blocking with weapons
Post by: Golem on December 27, 2014, 04:29:36 pm
The alcoholic shark rider has spoken+1  :wink: