cRPG
Melee: Battlegrounds => General => Topic started by: Wyrda on November 28, 2014, 02:23:27 pm
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When I ask this I specifically mean the combat. Is the combat very similar to M&B combat? Or is it going to be new ground where everyone has to build up their skills from the bottom? At the moment I've pledged $150, but I'm not sure if I want to pledge more if the game is going to be M&B at it's core, just with different features and game modes etc.
Personally I have never been a huge player of M&B multiplayer or cRPG. I found out about the game quite late after its release, and when I play in multiplayer almost everyone in the server is much much better and overwhelms me easily. Then I found out about Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, and I've been playing that. I started not too long after it came out and it was fun because most of the players were on my skill level. There were some players that were a lot better, but that just encouraged me to play more and get better myself.
So my point is, I think M:BG should be encouraging for new players. I'm worried is that all of the from the start the game will be dominated by Mount and Blade veterans, and it won't be a good environment to encourage new players to get into the game and will stifle growth.
Also a about archers: I played cRPG a bit with the aim of being an archers, but after skipping the fun and finding out that archers were useless I stopped playing. I don't want them to be useless in M:BG, if they're there they should be viable. It's not good to cater to the minority of elite players who dislike there being a skill equaliser.
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It's definitely not going to be build up from the bottom. The basics are about the same, it's just that it's more advanced with M:BG.
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Hard to predict yet. It's however one of my main concerns for the popularity of the game once it gets released. I'm pretty much convinced that us old players will stomp newbies very much like now in warband, but the devs believe that it will be different. http://forum.melee.org/general/melee-battlegrounds-faq/msg1087935/#msg1087935
What I hope is that there are 1) enough tutorial-like/training/newbie-friendly game modes and 2) there are enough other ways of having fun (e.g. RTS- like things in stronghold) if you are not that good in combat at first.
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is the combat going to be based around feint spam as much as in M&B?
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Good point.
It would be nice to see how 'noob friendly' M:BG will be. However hopefully a whole bunch of new players will join, who like you have not played much or any M&B before, so the average skill level will be far less than cRPG is now.
Plus, I know you were specifically talking about combat, however with the increase in player numbers teamwork will hopefully play a larger part and you may find yourself doing a lot better than you anticipated.
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There is still that essence of swing, parry. Click in a direction to attack and block. That's about all there is though.
Weapon collisions - Probably the biggest 'new thing' in my opinion. Weapons can collide and block attacks at any state, not just whether or not you have a 'blocking state' set.
"360ยบ" attack directions - You don't have to match the attack direction to the degree, but attack angles will vary, allowing you to possibly find away around their directional block.
Those are the obvious changes. However, combat is what they'll be primarily working on up through March of 2015 (i.e. alpha release). I imagine they'll be trying out different ways of interpreting/controlling chambers and parries, different ways of controlling attacks and blocks.
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is the combat going to be based around feint spam as much as in M&B?
Currently you can feint only once via pressing LMB twice, looks and works really cool already IMO.
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I wouldnt say its feint based. If you got the patience, whoever is spamming you can be defeated, since it open their spots easily. Thats just a silly sorry.
I belive MBG will try to detail that alot.
(just thinkin on how i'll get used to it with my 200+ ping)
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I played the pre-alpha and you certainly have a head start when you played warband previously.
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All of the M&B vets will be trying to chamber and just getting smacked in the face. :P
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Actually what i saw in the kickstarter video, was like Juggernaut spin and strike the sword like that. Realistic skills can do no hurt. Like turn and strike, lean right,left,down, one shot dagger kill if you sneak from behind, shieldbash, even kick and nudge can be skills like 1 2 3 4 5. Wasd footwork+12345 skills+360 degree mouse control -> Thats what I call a good game.
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That's a big thing for me, i'll play the game and like it, but i dont want a combat system where people claim 'skill' is based on making your character look like they're having a spazz attack with feinting, ground-hugging and circle-jerking. In crpg and warband the more retarded you can make your guy look, the 'better' you are.
Hopefully whatever scumbag meta emerges regarding M:BG combat, if it's popular enough there'll be sufficient population to dilute that and make it fun for the masses.
Not really on topic, but in Chivalry there's a new tactic used by 'pro' players that involves spinning 180 degrees in front of your opponent, doing an overhead attack (usually with something like a greatsword or halberd) and hitting them as soon as the release phase starts when the weapon is still behind your head.
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Not really on topic, but in Chivalry there's a new tactic used by 'pro' players that involves spinning 180 degrees in front of your opponent, doing an overhead attack (usually with something like a greatsword or halberd) and hitting them as soon as the release phase starts when the weapon is still behind your head.
That is the real problem you know. However sound the game mechanics may be, some tryhard will always find something to exploit. And that is still not a problem until this tryhard and others start thinking "it is alright" to exploit the fuck out of that specific broken mechanism without having a tiny bit of shame or pride in them.
Yes, I know it is kind of absurd to talk about stuff like pride and shame in a game but I do believe that if you have those qualities in your real life, you are supposed to maintain them in a fucking game too. Because such exploits are nothing different than, say, playing an FPS game in "godmode". Only pathetic little snots could enjoy that.
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That's a big thing for me, i'll play the game and like it, but i dont want a combat system where people claim 'skill' is based on making your character look like they're having a spazz attack with feinting, ground-hugging and circle-jerking. In crpg and warband the more retarded you can make your guy look, the 'better' you are.
Earlier there was a one feint limit on feinting in the alphabeta.
Devs removed that and said they wanted to add a stamina based system where you can feint until your stamina is gone.
Supposedly normal attack will not require stamina, so it wont be a stamina system that is as limiting as Dark Souls'.
Also @OP: The reason why M&B is so difficult for new players is the very high/non-existing skill ceiling.
Though it might make the game hard for new players it is also what has kept the game so interesting in the long run.
I hope M:BG gets to have at least as high a ceiling as M&B. It really just makes a more interesting game even if it is challenging to begin with.
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Judging on how I've seen crpg players go into games like Chivalry and fuck on the local server populations with little to no introduction, I'd say yes. The basics and feel will come quickly, but how quickly we can master it probably depends on how complex the meelee system will be. (Hopefully fairly)
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Earlier there was a one feint limit on feinting in the alphabeta.
Devs removed that and said they wanted to add a stamina based system where you can feint until your stamina is gone.
Supposedly normal attack will not require stamina, so it wont be a stamina system that is as limiting as Dark Souls'.
I hope M:BG gets to have at least as high a ceiling as M&B. It really just makes a more interesting game even if it is challenging to begin with.
I hope they do away with/remove any limiting factors to combat, even as much as I dislike the feint2win playstyle. If you could telegraph when someones about to run out of feints it limits the field of play in melee, and I would hope the developers are looking to expand.
On par with the 2nd part, I like the high skill ceiling that M&B brings to the table as uposed to other games that dumbed down combat for marketability of the game. The KS video tells the truth; You will die. Alot. And it's up to the player to learn to step up to the bar and learn how to fight back against that person who has killed you many times before.
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The important thing is that if the game is successful and highly populated, however much more ridiculously 'skilled' some other players are than you, there should be plenty of other players that you can kill. Also, a populated server means you wont just run into the same unkillable guy every time you spawn, also it means the tryhards have a better chance of being ganked by newbies who work together.
That's my hope, if people expect to be gods because they were the king of the barely populated current crpg servers, i want them to be humbled by a 500-person server where they either work with their team or get fucked.
That is another part which needs heavy balancing, teamwork. It really depends on the reward system. But I guess that's a different discussion.
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The important thing is that if the game is successful and highly populated, however much more ridiculously 'skilled' some other players are than you, there should be plenty of other players that you can kill. Also, a populated server means you wont just run into the same unkillable guy every time you spawn, also it means the tryhards have a better chance of being ganked by newbies who work together.
That's my hope, if people expect to be gods because they were the king of the barely populated current crpg servers, i want them to be humbled by a 500-person server where they either work with their team or get fucked.
My favorite part of my golden era of cRPG. I was not quite skilled enough to go toe-to-toe with the best players without dying 9/10 times but I had enough skill and situational awareness to be a vanguard against them steam-rolling a flank and giving the rest of the team enough space.
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People have very different opinions of what makes a game fun.
Naturally, casual players and veteran gamers often disagree.
Whenever someone says cRPG is too hard I get quite mad.
Because if the game was made more simple, it would become less fun. So the harder the better.
But then again I'm not a stupid casual player who want everyone to be equally good.
After 4 years I'm still a pretty bad melee player but that only makes the game more fun.
I love that there are gameplay features that I still haven't learned to master.
When it comes to kicks... I just can't do it and I've accepted that the way it is.
Fortunately I'm on a horse. There is a way of playing the game to your favor for everyone.
There are very few players who master every class and playstyle in the game and that's also something which makes the game fun.
Bottomline: I hope it will be the same with M:BG.
There are enough hardcore gamers on the planet to support it. We don't need the casual players.
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Self-proclaimed 'hardcore' gamers are normally cunts or faggots, whereas casual players have a much more 'fun-orientated' outlook, i would much rather a game entirely populated by the casual rather than the 'hardcore'. Let the 'hardcore' gamers go play DOTA and pretend it's a sport.
If 'hardcore' gamers are attracted to M:BG, i only hope there are enough casuals to stop them turning the community completely toxic and insular.
Never understood what's so appealing about DOTA, LoL, or gaming as a profession.
As for toxic...as long as its the fun "be an asshat to each other for whatever the fuck reason" kind of toxic
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Self-proclaimed 'hardcore' gamers are normally cunts or faggots, whereas casual players have a much more 'fun-orientated' outlook, i would much rather a game entirely populated by the casual rather than the 'hardcore'. Let the 'hardcore' gamers go play DOTA and pretend it's a sport.
If 'hardcore' gamers are attracted to M:BG, i only hope there are enough casuals to stop them turning the community completely toxic and insular.
Man, casual players don't even play cRPG...
A casual player doesn't install a mod for a game to begin with.
IMO 99% of the cRPG players are gamers, not casual players.
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That's what a casual would say.
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It would be awesome if M:BG was made with E-sports in mind.
I hope they add a ladder and match making system.
M:BG would work well for E-sport. 1vs1/5vs5 duels.
Making the game E-sports friendly would make the game more popular and sell more.
I hope the donkeycrew sees the pattern between e-sports and sold copies...
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That's what a casual would say.
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To me that sounds like the fun kinda 'casual' toxicity people enjoy, not 'OMG you noob get gud, why arent you playing in the optimal fashion? This match is so important to me!' that the lovely hardcores like to bring.
It's immensely unappealing to me that people can actually make a living by basement-dwelling and playing someone else's game. To a point i understand and even approve of Lets Players because what they're bringing is their own personality and entertainment in a pure form the same way as a radio presenter or comedian does otherwise they arent successful. But getting paid for 'being good' at a computer games, clicks per second etc, it rubs me the wrong way, especially in a game as a tedious as DOTA or LoL.
That's like saying only the inventor of football or tennis should get paid for it.
Believe it or not competitive gaming works because people want to watch it. So they get paid to play the shitty games while advertisers and sponsors spam their logos all over everything for dirt cheap advertising. So the spergs who like watching the "pro gamers" get the latest terrible Razor ELITE GAMER MOUSE shoved down their throats.
They aren't getting paid for "being good" they are getting paid just enough money to make it sound worthwhile even though the sponsors and event runners and so forth make 10000 times more then them.
Also the combat scene in the kickstarter for M:BG with the narrated xbowman being ambushed looked like a fucking staged thing but not even good at that. Like all choppy forcing the models into fake weapon collisions in what was intended to be " exciting combat" but was stiff wooden awkward and kind of silly. I don't even believe this game has a combat system at all yet to be honest.