cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Admerius on November 21, 2014, 05:21:20 pm

Title: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Admerius on November 21, 2014, 05:21:20 pm
2h stab does piercing but normal(...tatar and barbed) arrows doesn't?

The current 2h stab animation seems to be best suited for:
a. Worthless stabs=decrease piercing damage
or
b. Poor cutting damage=change to cut instead of pierce

The halfswording piercing damage is fine though, that sturdy grip makes it better suited for putting focused(less wiggly) force behind a thrust.

Can someone defend the current piercing damage of the current 2h stab animation, preferably with facts or really good drama or trolling.

One easy fix is to make it super easy to glance(sweetspot tweaks) with it but keep dmg type and amount.

It just looks wrong when 2h stab is more effective up close(facehug) than 1h stab.
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Inglorious on November 21, 2014, 07:19:11 pm
We might be getting this soon. Who knows, maybe it'll solve your problem.

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/(poll)-replacement-2h-stab-anim/
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: pepejul on November 21, 2014, 07:32:11 pm
yeah ! nerf lolpoke !
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Apsod on November 21, 2014, 09:01:37 pm
2H stab already has lower piercing damage than polerarm and 1H. It still does decent damage, but its quite a bit lower than the other classes, especially polearm.

The way the animation works might be a bit silly, but giving 2Hs a 10-15p stab that would glance all the time would make for very poor gameplay. Besides, the animation might be changed at some point to the one Inglorious linked to.
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Smoothrich on November 21, 2014, 10:06:12 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


learned to make gifs just for this thread

keep in mind this was the opening attack in luke's galaxy-saving combo after embracing his rage and destiny, a traditional 2handed lolstab

star wars has made nearly 30 billion dollars. how much have you made?
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Thryn on November 21, 2014, 10:47:56 pm
I think the animations for 2h generally suck, but out of 4 the 'lolstab' isn't the worst.

Fiore lists 12 guards in Fior Battaglia, one of those being the posta di fenestra, or window guard.

Quote from: http://www.swordschool.com/wiki/index.php/The_12_guards
Fiore says: This is the window guard, that is always quick with malice and deceit. And she is mistress of covers and strikes. And she argues with all the guards, both high and low. And she often goes from one guard to another to deceive the companion. She places great thrusts and knows to break and exchange, these plays she can do well.

(click to show/hide)

If you want to talk about the German school of fencing, you can take note of ochs (which is similar).

I think the animations could use some fine tuning, but other than that, I don't see why we need to fix something that isn't broken. I'd like the 2h class to have a different animation than polearm for the sake of variety. However, if enough plebs get it changed, it should be modeled after pflug.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think why people really hate the 2h stab is because 2h is a popular class. With popularity, you're going to have a larger crowd playing that style and within that a larger number of min-maxers (tryhards). What I recommend: Try down blocking. You can stop lancers that are down attacking from horseback. You can stop pikemen and hoplites from stabbing you. You can keep the 1h stab at bay. You can even nullify the power of the 'dreaded' 2h 'lolstab'.

Don't post that video of Lindybeige talking about ochs.
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Osakasa on November 23, 2014, 10:55:27 pm
Quote from: Thryn on November 21, 2014, 10:47:56 pm
I think why people really hate the 2h stab is because 2h is a popular class.

I'm sorry but your thinking is wrong: People don't hate the 2h stab because it is a popular class but they hate it because there is no counter for 2h stab.

cRPG combat mechanic is pretty dynamic. When you fight against two hander and he tries to attack you with swing, you can always try to encircle him. Overheads can be dodged too but when a two hander is holding his stab ready, what next? Take a pause and imagine situation where a two hander is holding his stab in front of you...

Next thing you can do is either try to attack him with stab too or have to wait holding down block ready until he makes another move. Really, when enemy is keeping his stab ready, this basically freezes the whole combat and there is absolutely nothing you can do against it. Stab or wait down block ready until the end of time. If you try to dodge 2h stab, two hander simply uses all his skill and rotates the stab 45 degree angle, then you will receive full 29p (+3 GGS) damage (plus speed bonus while you are running toward him).

Slightly off topic but imo affects greatly 2h stabbing: S key movement speed. After the latest patch, there are great number of 8+ ath players. That's fine, I'm not against agibuilds generally but when we know the concept of uncounterable 2h lolstab, it's a problem with high s key movement speed.

The s key movement speed is ridiculous high with 8-10 ath wearing light – medium armor that “normal” 6-7 ath builds simply can't reach him, not if the s keyer simply spamming brainlessly and using stab which you have to block. While you are holding your block, your own movement speed drops (yes, when s keyer keeps his stab ready, his movement speed drops too. I don't know the exact numbers) which makes catching him even harder. If you are finally in the reach of ready to hit him back after blocking his stab, he decides to kick you and gets another free hit. I'd say much bullshit (and yes, I do this too, not proud of it  :oops:).

I don't want to only whine about game mechanics without giving my own thoughts. So my own suggestions are:
1. Change to Senni's new animation (http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/%28poll%29-replacement-2h-stab-anim/ I really would like to see this happen)

2. Easy and simply to implement: make stab block recovery time longer. When your pike stab is being blocked, there is not enough time to block next incoming hit. Maybe a little bit over-exaggerate but I want this to be the case also with 2h stab. No more running around while holding stab attack without risk. <Troll> Want to be good in 2h duel? Try this: left swing and immediately stab while s keying, repeat until your opponent is dead </Troll>

3. After the latest patch, reconsideration about str requirements for Great Swords could be in place. Maybe GS ~22, DGS & GGS ~24(?). Currently str requirements are too low and all longer weapons are can be used with 9-10 ath. (LVL35, 18-30, PS6, ATH10, WM4 [143 wpf])

tl;dr version
2h lolstab is bullshit because there is no counter
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Thryn on November 25, 2014, 05:36:22 am
Quote from: Osakasa on November 23, 2014, 10:55:27 pm
tl;dr version
2h lolstab is bullshit because there is no counter

i'm sorry but

down block

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Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: Thumper on November 25, 2014, 05:44:29 am
Quote from: Osakasa on November 23, 2014, 10:55:27 pm
tl;dr version
2h lolstab is bullshit because there is no counter
Dude, all the stabs are op, have you played this game?
2h stab has its advantages and disadvantages from the other stabs but I find it balanced(1h stab hits hard and is fast as shit, polestab decently fast and hits even harder, and 2h has range and versatility)
Title: Re: 2h stab just looks and feels wrong
Post by: MURDERTRON on December 07, 2014, 05:47:54 am
Polearm stab is pretty bad right now.  And hoplite stab is OP.