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Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: [ptx] on November 20, 2014, 11:21:32 pm

Title: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on November 20, 2014, 11:21:32 pm
A couple of questions, that i didn't really figure out by myself:

Might have more questions later. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 20, 2014, 11:43:55 pm
Pay attention to the CAS latency of your RAM sticks. Freq isn't everything.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Leshma on November 20, 2014, 11:54:43 pm
A couple of questions, that i didn't really figure out by myself:
  • Planning on getting a GTX 980 - but there's a whole bunch of variants for this, with greatly varying prices. Which one would be best? Was reading reviews about Zotac AMP!, some say it's awesome, other's say it's meh.
  • Going for DDR3 memory, since DDR4 (together with a mobo and CPU to support it) seems way of an overkill. Going for 8GB initially, might upgrade later - is it worth it to go above 1866Mhz memory?

Might have more questions later. Thanks in advance.

1) Add 100 euros to GPU budget and get 970 SLI. Get the models that have good VRAM cooling and no coil whine.
2) Not unless you'll go for heavy OC. Intel CPUs won't benefit from RAM faster than 1600.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 21, 2014, 12:07:41 am
While you people are at it:

Get me a mainboard, a cpu, a cooler and RAM with a nice prize/performance ratio for €500.
Not gonna by now but I wanna check prizes now, close to Xmas and when I prolly gonna buy mid January. Out of interest how prizes move around Xmas...

I am thinking like 100€ for the board, a i5-4690K for 200€ and some 8GB ram kit... no fancy water cooling, just a nice silent cooler for "something"...

I appreciate the help :wink:

Edit: Came across this just now and it seems that even the smallest i7 performs better :o
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/32452-intel-core-i5-4690k-im-test.html?start=10

German site but page 10 and 11 have the proper benchmarks.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 21, 2014, 09:45:46 am
Water cooling isn't "fancy" anymore. You can get a CL kit for a honest price, and it is definitely worth it if you care about noise.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Christo on November 21, 2014, 09:47:07 am
I'd be sooper spookd installing that black magic in a PC

I mean, it is water .-.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 21, 2014, 09:51:34 am
It's not really water, and you never see it anyway. With a CL kit it's just screw that on this, screw this on that and you're done.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Christo on November 21, 2014, 09:55:38 am
Right.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 21, 2014, 10:03:21 am
I've seen those kits but I still wouldn't feel comfortable with "liquid" running through my tech. I'm with Christo on this one.

Just a nice fan is gud enuf.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Overdriven on November 21, 2014, 12:25:39 pm
I know plenty of people that do use them. But I'm also with Christo. I'd always have a niggling paranoia that something was going to go wrong.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Vibe on November 21, 2014, 12:31:31 pm
I am thinking like 100€ for the board, a i5-4690K for 200€ and some 8GB ram kit... no fancy water cooling, just a nice silent cooler for "something"...

I appreciate the help :wink:

Edit: Came across this just now and it seems that even the smallest i7 performs better :o
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/prozessoren/32452-intel-core-i5-4690k-im-test.html?start=10

German site but page 10 and 11 have the proper benchmarks.

Xeon E3-1231v3 is what I use. About 20€ more than i5-4690K but better and on par or very close to i7-4770K/4790K, where as the latter two are much more expensive.

This was my build:
(click to show/hide)

Used idealo.de with hardwareversand.de to get them parts cheaper.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Gnjus on November 21, 2014, 12:49:49 pm
1) Add 100 euros to GPU budget

Saying something like that to a Latvian is the worst insult possible, it can only come from someone who never sold a piece of blank paper, let alone a potato or two.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: pepejul on November 21, 2014, 12:54:32 pm
Some crazy ideas :

http://xtremgeek.com/showthread.php?4900-Tuning-et-watercooling-les-mods-les-plus-aboutis

Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 21, 2014, 01:00:55 pm
Xeon E3-1231v3 is what I use. About 20€ more than i5-4690K but better and on par or very close to i7-4770K/4790K, where as the latter two are much more expensive.

This was my build:
(click to show/hide)

Used idealo.de with hardwareversand.de to get them parts cheaper.
Yea, I had my eye on the E3, read about it as a tip for gamer. Certainly considering that CPU.

Edit: idealo.de? hardwareversand.de? huh? You're German/Austrian? Always figured you as "Eastern Block" for some reason...
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Vibe on November 21, 2014, 01:21:08 pm
Yea, I had my eye on the E3, read about it as a tip for gamer. Certainly considering that CPU.

Edit: idealo.de? hardwareversand.de? huh? You're German/Austrian? Always figured you as "Eastern Block" for some reason...

I'm a slav, иди на хуй сука

That doesn't meant I don't know into german. And Germany has cheaper computer parts than slavlands.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: jtobiasm on November 21, 2014, 01:35:50 pm
Corsair H80i is the best thing I've bought

cpu stays breezyyy
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on November 21, 2014, 03:44:04 pm
Got nagged at on IRC till i decided to go for GTX 970 instead, gonna get a MSI GTX 970 Gamer 4G. Thanks for info on memory.

3 more questions - i'm not quite sure, but, right now all DDR3 memory is of the same slot type, right? Also, how big a PSU is it worth getting? And that latency = CL, right? Is CL11 okay?
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 22, 2014, 12:25:53 am
3 more questions - i'm not quite sure, but, right now all DDR3 memory is of the same slot type, right? Also, how big a PSU is it worth getting? And that latency = CL, right? Is CL11 okay?

Anything DDR3 will work on DDR3 slots, yes.

For a single GPU setup and one or two disks I'd get a high quality PSU around 550W (look for the efficiency grades). More power if you want to add stuff. I think there are tools around that can tell you roughly how much power you will need based on a list of parts.

About latency and RAM performance I've heard conflicting information over the years. I think the best might be to look for benchmarks of the specific kit you are interested in. There are definitely some great kits around if you want to up your game and go 16Gb or 32Gb, now that DDR4 is out. It might sound silly, but it won't cost you much, improve multitasking and increase the lifetime of your SSD.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 22, 2014, 12:17:44 pm
Alright, made my first list for price comparison.
This seemed a good choice:
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Gonna update this in here close to Christmas again...
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Christo on November 22, 2014, 12:48:07 pm
Einkaufswagen

Haha, this shit is why I like german  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 22, 2014, 01:42:33 pm
What is the actual name of the CPU?
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: jtobiasm on November 22, 2014, 01:50:20 pm
You might aswell get a z-97 MOBO molly for like an extra £10
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 22, 2014, 01:59:58 pm
What is the actual name of the CPU?
E31230V3

You might aswell get a z-97 MOBO molly for like an extra £10
That's fine tuning which I gonna do when I prepare the actual purchase. Right now I am just curious about the price developement around Xmas, curious if there actually is a price raise before it and a drop after it. Like a big change around 50€... I don't care if there are like 20€ more or less on the tap... not that strictly bound to the 500€ budget.

I'll get everyone involved again when I really gonna buy. :)


Edit: Found those...

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Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 22, 2014, 02:24:21 pm
E31230V3

Looks like a very slightly slower 4770K with no integrated GPU. Might be a little risky if you don't have a spare GPU. Of course that means you need a mobo with DVI output if you want to be able to use the integrated graphics for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Dalhi on November 22, 2014, 02:36:42 pm
Looks like a very slightly slower 4770K with no integrated GPU. Might be a little risky if you don't have a spare GPU. Of course that means you need a mobo with DVI output if you want to be able to use the integrated graphics for whatever reason.

If I have learned anything on this forum then it is to never listen Kafein when it comes to picking up pc parts.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 22, 2014, 03:04:27 pm
If I have learned anything on this forum then it is to never listen Kafein when it comes to picking up pc parts.
Care to elaborate? :D
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Dalhi on November 22, 2014, 03:37:24 pm
To be honest I doubt if there is a point in buying cpu that uses Hyper Threading if you are a gamer, unless you do some rendering and some more proffesional stuff you really won't benefit that much from it. I don't know if you have a SSD drive, but it sure is worth to consider buying one.
I believe that i5 4460 or 4590 will perform pretty much same like xeon E31230V3, but you will save some cash. Also getting motherbord with z87/97 chipset if you your are planning to buy locked cpu is a waste of money. another few more euros in your pocket if you buy mobo with h97/87 cheapset. Or even something cheaper. it's not like more expensive motherboards will give performance boost, cheaper ones just lack few features that you won't ever use.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Christo on November 22, 2014, 04:36:45 pm
I'm looking at motherboards, and been thinking:

Can you get away cheaper with a non-Z series Mobo if you don't care about overclocking and SLI that much? Or there are other big losses?
That seems like their biggest selling point.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Vibe on November 22, 2014, 05:33:40 pm
Few things:

16GB ram? wud
Get H97 mobo ("Z" mobos are for overclocking, as are "K" for processors).
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on November 22, 2014, 09:01:22 pm
A couple of questions, that i didn't really figure out by myself:
  • Planning on getting a GTX 980 - but there's a whole bunch of variants for this, with greatly varying prices. Which one would be best? Was reading reviews about Zotac AMP!, some say it's awesome, other's say it's meh.
  • Going for DDR3 memory, since DDR4 (together with a mobo and CPU to support it) seems way of an overkill. Going for 8GB initially, might upgrade later - is it worth it to go above 1866Mhz memory?

Might have more questions later. Thanks in advance.

EVGA ACX and Asus STRIX are very good aftermarket coolers and brands.

I prefer the STRIX design, but it disperses the heat inside the case, ACX seems to kick a bit more out the back. (it's also slimmer if that's a factor)
They both have great warranties and have good OCing potential (they have a decent average ASIC, due to their better binning of chips).

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/K4PRCJ
The 250gb 840 evo is better than the 120 in write speeds (aswell as being bigger), if you can afford it go for that.
You may be able to find a gtx 780 or 780ti for about the same price as a 970, worth looking for.
Case is all about taste, so you can pretty much ignore that :P.
I didn't include case fans etc, depends on case.

You won't find 1600MHz ram a bottleneck, I haven't felt the need for faster RAM.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 22, 2014, 11:57:43 pm
To be honest I doubt if there is a point in buying cpu that uses Hyper Threading if you are a gamer, unless you do some rendering and some more proffesional stuff you really won't benefit that much from it. I don't know if you have a SSD drive, but it sure is worth to consider buying one.
I believe that i5 4460 or 4590 will perform pretty much same like xeon E31230V3, but you will save some cash. Also getting motherbord with z87/97 chipset if you your are planning to buy locked cpu is a waste of money. another few more euros in your pocket if you buy mobo with h97/87 cheapset. Or even something cheaper. it's not like more expensive motherboards will give performance boost, cheaper ones just lack few features that you won't ever use.

I agree with not going with a Z mobo, however SLI can be a very important, cost-effective feature further down the line. You are probably going to keep that mobo and cpu for more than 5 years, so those things are kind of worth it.

I don't really see the point of Hyper-Threading either however the K suffix is really worth the price. Dat sweet OC.

Also you didn't really elaborate.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 23, 2014, 01:08:34 am
(click to show/hide)
If you check those screens... they have the E3 2 times in each. At stock speed and at OC speed with 3.7GHz.
They pointed out that it's a really cool headed cpu which can easily take the clock with stock cooling. That's why I thought the Z87 was actually mandatory but I should probably take another look.
The 16GB I took more as an option than an actual purchase. I do use a Ultra II SSD (120GB) for my OS now - oh that sweet booting speed was worth the €60 up front - but I am still playing with the idea to use 6GB ram as persistent ram disk... maybe... and I would profit from real HT, I guess, since I am using Linux running on VMware for uni. Shouldn't that profit from the HT quite a lot?

And according to those benchmarks, and I've seen several of those from different sources, the E3 performs easily with the higher i7s with the price of an i5. Can't see anything wrong with that and integrated GPU is rather pointless from a gamers POV, isn't it?

But please, keep the posts coming. I am not into the whole hardware deal too much and I am thankful for any advice from people who know this shit better than me...

Edit: I am using a r9 270x right now which is xfire capable. Which chipset is that? h87 or z87? Or something completely different?
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Andswaru on November 24, 2014, 06:40:41 pm
I can honestly say listen to Dahli... I own a i7-2600k one of the best i7 ever made (in my humble opinion) and its totally wasted for games... its never at more than 60% or so except when RTW2 goes retarded and insists it can only run on a single thread.

Save money go i5.

Intel Core i5-4670K @ 3.40GHz has a nice power to $ ratio.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-4670K+%40+3.40GHz&id=1921

Also buy a water cooled case and be nice too your electric costs.. they will sink more than you'd expect.

Edit:

http://www.amazon.de/Ankermann-PC-Cestrum-Festplatte-Betriebssystem-4260219657396/dp/B0088H44Q8/ref=sr_1_8?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1416850953&sr=1-8&keywords=ankermann+gaming+pc

Can also recommend any prebuilt from Ankermann, had a computer from them once and have friends who have them also, cheap for what you get, nice and tidy inside and EXTREMELY good customer service.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Vibe on November 25, 2014, 07:54:08 am
I can honestly say listen to Dahli... I own a i7-2600k one of the best i7 ever made (in my humble opinion) and its totally wasted for games... its never at more than 60% or so except when RTW2 goes retarded and insists it can only run on a single thread.

Go try Arma 3 multiplayer, it will melt your machine (although that's partially the hosting server's fault) :D
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 25, 2014, 10:18:06 am
I'm pretty settled on the E3 tbh... :)
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Tore on November 25, 2014, 02:09:59 pm
You would probarbly want to get 980/970 with 8GB vram (if its out yet) if you are planning to run AAA console ports. Games like Shadow of Mordor and Assassins Creed Unity has ridiculous VRAM usage.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Andswaru on November 25, 2014, 02:38:25 pm
Go try Arma 3 multiplayer, it will melt your machine (although that's partially the hosting server's fault) :D

Normally bottlenecks in my gpu then sadly... fucking arma 3. I love and hate that game in equal measure.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Vibe on November 25, 2014, 03:49:16 pm
Normally bottlenecks in my gpu then sadly... fucking arma 3. I love and hate that game in equal measure.

Haha, as we all.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Patoson on November 25, 2014, 05:07:58 pm
Regarding the cooling in the posts in the first page, I agree with Kafein: I got a Corsair H60 a long time ago. It's really easy to install and temperatures are so much better than air-cooling and it doesn't make any noise, and the water isn't going to go outside.  :D
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: 722_ on November 25, 2014, 06:07:58 pm

Also buy a water cooled case and be nice too your electric costs.. they will sink more than you'd expect.


This true? maybe I need to look into this!
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Smoothrich on November 25, 2014, 06:16:18 pm
Posting to recommend the i5 4670k. Got it with a cheap z97 and a hyper 212 evo heatsink fan and I can overclock it all day if necessary at low temps but it handles just about every game at stock speeds perfectly.

I'm still using a 7950 that I flashed with a basically 7970 bios that removed any boost mode voltage griefing and keeps it at a stable temp with much higher clock speeds. Starting to bottleneck games now cuz its old but its such a great value and you can buy these things cheap if necessary from all the unreliable bitcoin farmers on ebay. If I ever upgrade it'd probably be to another AMD card in this range like an r9 280x or something if they get cheap cuz it is so much more efficient than comparable ~200 USD NVIDIA cards, unless the newest generation of them are matching up. Runs most things on ultra and has 3gb of RAM which is a new standard for ultra textures in PC games. Dial down AA and crap at high resolutions cuz its just a waste of juice in many games.

Advice to any PC builder: SSDs are dirt cheap now, I got a 256 GB one for windows and my main games. Biggest performance increase easily with instant boot ups and typically long as hell load times in say Total War games being completely removed.

Getting more than 8 GB of ram for gaming is a waste too. I've read benchmarks that show 16 GBs of ram actually giving worse FPS for no reason in things like the newest Batman game.

~500 watt PSU is fine for a single GPU, never had any issues.

Also I bought a cheap pack of 5 cooler master fans and a 30 dollar touch screen fan controller for a small computer tower, runs real cool and quiet and setting up good ventilation and airflow is important.

AMD makes good GPUs that last I checked honestly dominate NVIDIA benchmarks for value, with 300 dollar NVIDIA cards being worse than 200 dollar AMD ones. Just shop around for good deals open box and crap and make sure the GPU manufacturer is reliable with RMA's and stuff.

lmao @ people saying you need 8 GB vram and shit looking down. Too many PC gamers are indulgently wasteful of money on hardware that is simply not needed. Much cheaper to get good deals on medium-tier cards (that all blow PS4 out of the water mind you) and upgrade every couple years or something instead. My 7950 runs all the console ports ultra textures no issue.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: lombardsoup on November 25, 2014, 06:39:16 pm
lmao @ people saying you need 8 GB vram and shit looking down. Too many PC gamers are indulgently wasteful of money on hardware that is simply not needed. Much cheaper to get good deals on medium-tier cards (that all blow PS4 out of the water mind you) and upgrade every couple years or something instead. My 7950 runs all the console ports ultra textures no issue.

2GB-4GB is perfectly fine for modern games unless you're using some crazy 4K/5K resolution in which case an 8GB framebuffer would actually be warranted.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 25, 2014, 07:06:08 pm
lmao @ people saying you need 8 GB vram and shit looking down. Too many PC gamers are indulgently wasteful of money on hardware that is simply not needed. Much cheaper to get good deals on medium-tier cards (that all blow PS4 out of the water mind you) and upgrade every couple years or something instead. My 7950 runs all the console ports ultra textures no issue.

That only matters if all the good heavy games are console ports. I think that's going to change in the near future, first and foremost with Star Citizen. More importantly, I feel there's a general sentiment with independent studios to say "fuck it" and go PC exclusive considering console hardware is just completely outdated nowadays.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: lombardsoup on November 25, 2014, 07:24:48 pm
That only matters if all the good heavy games are console ports. I think that's going to change in the near future, first and foremost with Star Citizen. More importantly, I feel there's a general sentiment with independent studios to say "fuck it" and go PC exclusive considering console hardware is just completely outdated nowadays.

So much for PC gaming being dead  :lol:

If anything is on the chopping block its consoles, which have to be sold at a loss to begin with.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Tore on November 25, 2014, 07:29:29 pm
lmao @ people saying you need 8 GB vram and shit looking down. Too many PC gamers are indulgently wasteful of money on hardware that is simply not needed. Much cheaper to get good deals on medium-tier cards (that all blow PS4 out of the water mind you) and upgrade every couple years or something instead. My 7950 runs all the console ports ultra textures no issue.

But crappy console ports use 4+ VRAM easly, look at how shit ACU for example runs, even on modern hardware, just saying.

thanks consoles
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: lombardsoup on November 25, 2014, 07:31:21 pm
But crappy console ports use 4+ VRAM easly, look at how shit ACU for example runs, even on modern hardware, just saying.

thanks consoles

Granted, Ass Greed Poonity runs like, well, ass to begin with even after several patches.  Ubi is known for this kind of crap
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 25, 2014, 10:25:17 pm
But crappy console ports use 4+ VRAM easly, look at how shit ACU for example runs, even on modern hardware, just saying.

thanks consoles

Yeah... no they don't. Except for a few exceptions due to terrible coding (ACU being one of those, as it doesn't show anything to justify that absurd VRAM usage).
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Tore on November 25, 2014, 11:02:21 pm
Yeah... no they don't. Except for a few exceptions due to terrible coding (ACU being one of those, as it doesn't show anything to justify that absurd VRAM usage).
Did I say it was "justified"? I only said that various console ports and possible more uses more than 4gb vram. I have a 2gb myself and wouldn't buy a 8gb card, just tellin facts mang

Also, playing at high resolutions and having realy high quality texture mods will eat up lots of vram, like modded skyrim.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on November 26, 2014, 12:20:35 am
Rumoured R9 390X and GTX 980Ti/Titan 2 due out at some point, probably next year Feb/March, but worth keeping in mind.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Andswaru on November 26, 2014, 11:02:01 am
This true? maybe I need to look into this!

Well I thought it was true, and indeed it used to be true, i was looking for an article to back up my preaching and found out that "modern" cooling fans (round the 30€ mark) are delivering much more than they used to too back in the old days when i started using water cooling (Pentium 4 era), meaning that unless your a crazy overclocker... just dont bother watercooling.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on November 26, 2014, 05:05:51 pm
I get similar results with my air cooling to my friends H80 watercooler.

Downside is it's a hefty chunk of metal, so it may end up warping the motherboard.
Though the downside of those closed loops is leaks. (rare, but I'm a zero risk individual :P)
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 27, 2014, 09:17:53 am
(rare, but I'm a zero risk individual :P)

Bayesians hate him!
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Vibe on November 27, 2014, 10:12:54 am
You'd have to do some serious overclocking to actually need watercooling. My custom CPU fan and the 3 GIGABYTE fans on my GPU (+4 or 5 on the case?) and the temperatures never go high.

Electricity cost? Can't say until the end of the year, because it's flat rate with "cover the differences" later.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 27, 2014, 10:53:08 pm
You'd have to do some serious overclocking to actually need watercooling. My custom CPU fan and the 3 GIGABYTE fans on my GPU (+4 or 5 on the case?) and the temperatures never go high.

Electricity cost? Can't say until the end of the year, because it's flat rate with "cover the differences" later.

"need" is an ill-defined concept. You don't need a computer either. The point of watercooling for me is reducing noise to the minimum. That counts even if you don't OC, and pretty much everybody cares about noise. Sure, you can keep your rig freezing if you go full AC130, but it's not actually helpful to go any lower than the temp at which your CPU is stable.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on November 29, 2014, 07:26:36 pm
Okay, so spent a gift card to get myself some 500W PSU and got the shopping list for the rest of the parts finalized:
Transferring a 120Gb Kingston HyperX SSD and a 2Tb HDD from my current PC.

Can actually order the whole thing from just 2 shops for ~1000Eur, now to figure out if my current savings can support that and lasting till the mid of December :D
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on November 29, 2014, 08:02:33 pm
Okay, so spent a gift card to get myself some 500W PSU and got the shopping list for the rest of the parts finalized:
  • Crucial DDR3 8GB 1600Mhz CL11 RAM
  • Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU Fan
  • MSI GeForce GTX 970 Gaming 4G
  • Core i7 4790k
  • Corsair Carbide 400R Case
  • MSI Z97-GD65 GAMING MoBo
  • SoundBlaster Z :P
Transferring a 120Gb Kingston HyperX SSD and a 2Tb HDD from my current PC.

Can actually order the whole thing from just 2 shops for ~1000Eur, now to figure out if my current savings can support that and lasting till the mid of December :D

Isn't there a EVGA or ASUS 970 at roughly the same price?
I find MSI are fine and all, but ASUS and EVGA are quite a bit better.

EDIT: CL 11 RAM, swap for some CL9 RAM ASAP.
Do you need the soundcard?
The GD65 should come with a soundblaster chip built in? (my Z87 version does)

The 400R doesn't come with most it's fan slots occupied, so you may want to add some of those.
    Fan:
    2 x 120 mm (front white LED)
    1x 120mm (rear)
Not included:
    2x 120/140 mm (side panel, optional)
    2x 120/140 mm (lid, optional)
    1x 140mm (rear optional)
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on November 29, 2014, 08:35:24 pm
Isn't there a EVGA or ASUS 970 at roughly the same price?
I find MSI are fine and all, but ASUS and EVGA are quite a bit better.
Went through reviews for GTX 970 variants, most say MSI is the best... I don't do a whole lot of overclocking though.
EDIT: CL 11 RAM, swap for some CL9 RAM ASAP.
Why? From what i've read, CL9 has only about 2-3% better performance than CL11 or even less.

Do you need the soundcard?
The GD65 should come with a soundblaster chip built in? (my Z87 version does)
It's a whim of mine, am a bit of an audiophile.

The 400R doesn't come with most it's fan slots occupied, so you may want to add some of those.
    Fan:
    2 x 120 mm (front white LED)
    1x 120mm (rear)
Not included:
    2x 120/140 mm (side panel, optional)
    2x 120/140 mm (lid, optional)
    1x 140mm (rear optional)
That's a lot of fans O_o
Not sure if i need that many, living in a rather northern country. Guess i'll keep that in mind and see what temperatures it's running at.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Nightmare798 on November 29, 2014, 10:06:28 pm
Ill give you some advice, Buy a keyboard that does not have either alt key, or F4 key.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on November 30, 2014, 01:04:50 am
Went through reviews for GTX 970 variants, most say MSI is the best... I don't do a whole lot of overclocking though.Why? From what i've read, CL9 has only about 2-3% better performance than CL11 or even less.
It's a whim of mine, am a bit of an audiophile.
That's a lot of fans O_o
Not sure if i need that many, living in a rather northern country. Guess i'll keep that in mind and see what temperatures it's running at.

Looked up some reviews, fair enough for the MSI card. Seems they have really pulled out all the stops for the 970.
I'd still recommend going for CL9 RAM if the price difference isn't huge.
Fair enough.
2-3 extra fans would be a good idea, with top and back fans you could get a really good air flow going.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 30, 2014, 05:40:09 pm
More fans means more noise. That 212 evo will already be mighty noisy (I know, I have exactly that one). Honestly unless you live in the Sahel, more case fans isn't all that critical. Again, you don't want your CPU to run at 20 celsius.

I have the SoundBlaster Z. It's a big improvement over the onboard sound on my mobo, but it's made for gamers and not really audiophiles (sound cards for audiophiles are a fair bit more expensive). I really like the sound quality, the virtual surround, the microphone and the software, but it's hard to give an objective assessment of those things. If anything that card is not a critical part of your setup, you could buy it later for sure. Conversely, it will most likely never become obsolete unless new mobos suddenly improve the sound quality, so you might as well buy it now and never worry about that again.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: lombardsoup on November 30, 2014, 07:02:32 pm
More fans means more noise. That 212 evo will already be mighty noisy (I know, I have exactly that one). Honestly unless you live in the Sahel, more case fans isn't all that critical. Again, you don't want your CPU to run at 20 celsius.

I have the SoundBlaster Z. It's a big improvement over the onboard sound on my mobo, but it's made for gamers and not really audiophiles (sound cards for audiophiles are a fair bit more expensive). I really like the sound quality, the virtual surround, the microphone and the software, but it's hard to give an objective assessment of those things. If anything that card is not a critical part of your setup, you could buy it later for sure. Conversely, it will most likely never become obsolete unless new mobos suddenly improve the sound quality, so you might as well buy it now and never worry about that again.

He can buy an external DAC and amp for the headphones if he doesn't want a sound card.  There's also active speakers to consider.  The other option is running an HDMI cable from his video card to an AV receiver if he wants passive speakers, as some current video cards also have integrated audio.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on November 30, 2014, 07:07:29 pm
We could spend hours discussing if mentioning "audiophile" and "PC soundcard" in the same context makes any sense but we'll never reach any common ground, I guess. More a question of believing and faith then anything else :D

Just my 3 cents... :wink:
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: lombardsoup on November 30, 2014, 07:10:05 pm
We could spend hours discussing if mentioning "audiophile" and "PC soundcard" in the same context makes any sense but we'll never reach any common ground, I guess. More a question of believing and faith then anything else :D

Just my 3 cents... :wink:

Haven't bought a sound card in years, they're not worth it for the price when there are better options available.  Even onboard has gotten better over the years, negating sound cards further
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Prpavi on November 30, 2014, 07:59:38 pm
A couple of questions, that i didn't really figure out by myself:
  • Planning on getting a GTX 980 - but there's a whole bunch of variants for this, with greatly varying prices. Which one would be best? Was reading reviews about Zotac AMP!, some say it's awesome, other's say it's meh.
  • Going for DDR3 memory, since DDR4 (together with a mobo and CPU to support it) seems way of an overkill. Going for 8GB initially, might upgrade later - is it worth it to go above 1866Mhz memory?

Might have more questions later. Thanks in advance.

1. I'd look for the best aftermarket cooling, don't pay more for the OC versions of the card, they are not worth it imo. As for the manufacturer, people tend to have their own preferences, tbh Zotac or Palit never looked too atractive to me and always felt they were 2nd class (probabyl colpletely wrong but still) I own 3rd Ginward card in a row now and never had any problems, though some people say they are crap...

2. 8gb is fine and it's defintely not worth going above 1866mhz, still it depends on what you're going for, only gaming? do you edit videos? etc..

oh and avoud SLI, a dual or even stronger single chip gpu is better than any SLI setup.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 30, 2014, 08:08:30 pm
oh and avoud SLI, a dual or even stronger single chip gpu is better than any SLI setup.

I think it's a good idea to prepare for the future. When you finally need more oomph it's much cheaper to purchase a cheap card and run SLI with the old one rather than buy a new expensive card. You can also buy the expensive card anyways and run SLI only in games where it's beneficial. That's one of the greatest things about SLI : you don't need the exact same card to make it work. scratch that, you actually do need to use the same card (however you can purchase from two different manufacturers).
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Dalhi on November 30, 2014, 08:37:35 pm
I guess that depends on what screen you have, if it's something up to 27" (1080p or even 1440p) your are fine with just solid single gpu and definatly GTX 970 is one of these, but if you are planning to get something bigger that supports 4k resolution then you might want to consider going for sli/xfire.
For now I am not sure if drivers support is good enough for that, but I never actually had a chance to test it so you may want to ignore that part.

About cases, I own Fractal Design Define R4, and the only thing I hear is silent whisper of my case fans, which is great imrpovement from my old case which was driving me crazy when fans started to buzz. My CPU cooler is rather shitty but still can't hear it. But it has one downside... it's huge and pretty heavy but that actually says a lot about build quality. I think it cost pretty same as Corsair Carbide 400R so you might want to check if you like the look.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on November 30, 2014, 10:00:50 pm
I guess that depends on what screen you have, if it's something up to 27" (1080p or even 1440p) your are fine with just solid single gpu and definatly GTX 970 is one of these, but if you are planning to get something bigger that supports 4k resolution then you might want to consider going for sli/xfire.
For now I am not sure if drivers support is good enough for that, but I never actually had a chance to test it so you may want to ignore that part.

About cases, I own Fractal Design Define R4, and the only thing I hear is silent whisper of my case fans, which is great imrpovement from my old case which was driving me crazy when fans started to buzz. My CPU cooler is rather shitty but still can't hear it. But it has one downside... it's huge and pretty heavy but that actually says a lot about build quality. I think it cost pretty same as Corsair Carbide 400R so you might want to check if you like the look.

+1 for the Fractal, I have a Corsair 300R personally, a tad noisy, but it doesn't bother me too much.
However the Fractal is incredible, it doesn't have the best airflow, but it's a great looking case and extremely quiet. (when a friend asked me to spec him a pc like mine but better, I suggested the R4, he loves it)

I currently use a 28" 4k monitor, I found it was possible to play a surprising number of games at 4k on a single 780 (30+ fps). I have since gone SLI, I can't say I've had more issues since going SLI, but it is an extra layer of stuff that can go wrong. Frame-pacing is fine for those interested.
SLI scaling isn't as good as xfire, but it's smoother imo. I do have to lower settings on some games to run at 4k, SC in particular requires I drop the resolution to 1440p. (Until they improve SLI support, I can run most the crysis games fine at 4k)

If you plan on 4K, I'd wait until the beefier cards arrive. Otherwise, a 970 should be fine for all applications.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on November 30, 2014, 10:28:35 pm
Senni, I also want to jump to 4K, does it make more sense to buy a screen first and upgrade later (I have a 760GTX), or upgrade first then buy the screen? I wonder whether the 4K screen tech will considerably evolve in the next few months.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on December 01, 2014, 12:33:24 am
I'd wait for the prices to drop further & wait for freesync, HDMI 2.0 to come out tbh.
You can use the displayport (as I do), but can't have a monitor with sound or headphone ports. (Current HDMI is limited to ~24Hz @4k, displayport for 60Hz)

In terms of what first, probably upgrade first. As using a 4k screen on lower resolutions is pretty ugly. (even 1440p looks kinda bad)
Though the current GPU selection isn't overly amazing 4k wise.

The R9 390X and Titan 2/980Ti specs are looking very promising though. Would probably still need two of the buggers though.
(Will probably be some leaks and stuff in December)

Should be better VR support from future cards too, I know the 900 series have some features for VR.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: v/onMega on December 01, 2014, 02:20:20 pm
Best cooling solutions for GFX cards = Asus and MSI.
Xeon indeed an option.

Until 4k is mainstream, there will be about 3 new card card generations out!
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on December 04, 2014, 06:45:41 pm
Alright, so, it's assembled and set up...

A few things:
First, some lels (http://imgur.com/gallery/NiqDa7j)
Second, i was surprised, when the thing just booted straight to the old Win8.1 installation i had on the SSD that i had transferred over. Did a new install anyway.
Third, gotta love modern cases and being able to insert HDDs and DVD-RWs without any screws.
Fourth, super high settings, here i come :D
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on December 15, 2014, 03:10:31 am
Alright, so, it's assembled and set up...

A few things:
First, some lels (http://imgur.com/gallery/NiqDa7j)
Second, i was surprised, when the thing just booted straight to the old Win8.1 installation i had on the SSD that i had transferred over. Did a new install anyway.
Third, gotta love modern cases and being able to insert HDDs and DVD-RWs without any screws.
Fourth, super high settings, here i come :D

You inserted the 1394 cable into the usb slots didn't you, you pleb? You got lucky you did not instantly brick the whole mobo, imagine that. 1394 is something nobody uses anyway, leave that cable alone, cut and isolate it or something.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on December 15, 2014, 07:18:00 am
 :P
Anyway, some results:
The thing boots (from pressing power button to login screen) in 11 seconds.
The Hyper 212 Evo is as entirely silent as the rest of the thing, not sure why you got it different.
I have been unable to make anything put any stress on it so far :)
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: v/onMega on December 19, 2014, 01:19:03 pm
Your 212 might get louder once you start overclocking / it gets warmer outside.
I own a MSI 970 4G myself. Best 970 on the market (combining all aspects).

The other upgrades will follow soon TM.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 04, 2015, 02:11:28 pm
Can someone tell me what the exact difference between these 2 is, except for the obvious 100MHz...

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Edit: Soon  :mrgreen:

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Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on January 04, 2015, 05:48:43 pm
1230 is Haswell
1231 is Haswell Refresh

Afaik.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 04, 2015, 05:51:57 pm
1230 is Haswell
1231 is Haswell Refresh

Afaik.
I am sorry but what exactly is that supposed to tell me now? :P
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on January 05, 2015, 02:53:52 pm
1231 is newer
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 05, 2015, 02:56:32 pm
Very helpful -.-
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on January 05, 2015, 05:06:02 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_%28microarchitecture%29#Haswell_Refresh
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Kafein on January 05, 2015, 06:09:41 pm
I'd be strange to get the slower one with the fancy instruction set, unless the faster one is significantly more expensive. Typically you'd only look at special instructions if you use very specific software or develop it yourself.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on January 05, 2015, 07:29:57 pm
Very helpful -.-

That is the exact difference. 100MHz and losing some old instruction sets.
Hardly any difference between them.

Go for whichever is cheaper. (the 1231 requires a #97 board, 1230 #87/97 afaik)
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Dalhi on January 05, 2015, 08:13:22 pm
(the 1231 requires a #97 board, 1230 #87/97 afaik)

I am pretty sure that it doesn't require a #97 chipset, it's a matter of updating bios to version that supports your CPU so it will run with any mobo with 1150 socket. Molly, if you are planning to buy that Asus h97 mobo, then don't bother yourself with what I wrote.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 05, 2015, 09:41:16 pm
Yea, gonna stick with the Asus.

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H97-Pro. Don't ask me why the pro. Don't really know. It has Pro in its name and fits the budget... :?

Already ordered the CPU today cuz it seems to raising in price quite a bit lately. Yesterday it was at 234€, today I ordered for 242€. And I've watched it raise like that on Amazon a few days before. So I decided to order at Alternate.de today. It's like 255€ or something at Amazon now :o
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Christo on January 05, 2015, 09:56:42 pm
H97-Pro. Don't ask me why the pro. Don't really know. It has Pro in its name and fits the budget... :?

good customer
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 05, 2015, 10:00:01 pm
good customer
:mrgreen:
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Senni__Ti on January 05, 2015, 11:42:46 pm
I am pretty sure that it doesn't require a #97 chipset, it's a matter of updating bios to version that supports your CPU so it will run with any mobo with 1150 socket. Molly, if you are planning to buy that Asus h97 mobo, then don't bother yourself with what I wrote.

Not sure which manufacturers have bios updates for the #87's to be compatible with the refresh, safer not to mention tbh. #97s tend to be the same price as their #87 counterparts anyway.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 09, 2015, 04:48:45 pm
May present to you...

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...my new setup! :D

I'm a happy geek now!  :mrgreen:

Fun fact: Oversight on my part. Didn't realize that my DVD burner was still IDE. So till tomorrow I am w/o one. New SATA one is on its way... ^___^
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on January 09, 2015, 05:04:54 pm
Yeah, had the exact same issue. Trekked over to the nearest PC shop and got myself an overpriced SATA DVD Burner to be able to setup my PC. Don't really have any bootable USB sticks lying around.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 09, 2015, 05:25:26 pm
Atm I am booting my "old" OS but I gonna do a clean install tomorrow I guess. Tho everything seems to be working.
Still, clean install of the OS seems better.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: [ptx] on January 09, 2015, 05:42:36 pm
Yeah, i was taken by complete surprise, when my PC initially booted up with my old OS and proceeded to install drivers. Did a semi-clean install, keeping files and some other stuff.
Title: Re: Finally building a new gaming beast - need some advice
Post by: Molly on January 09, 2015, 06:02:50 pm
Yep, gonna do the same.
Make a backup of my collected email addresses, my bookmarks and save games and just format C, install new. I know from experience that most games run instantly or just need a verification of the files. Only all my tools need a re-install but that's done in like 90 minutes...

Not much effort involved nowadays.