cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: Auphilia on October 17, 2014, 06:06:12 pm

Title: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Auphilia on October 17, 2014, 06:06:12 pm
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For five generations we have brought total war to these lands, and soon another.
However, this may be our last. The end of our reign is not far from sight.
Once more we gather warriors from all sides of the world to make our claim.
But let us not forget our history. Let us not repeat our mistakes.
If this truly is the end, the grande finale, then let us die in celebration of all the glory we have seized.
Let us make this last moment our best moment in history.
That we may die, but the legend of Strategus will live on!
That our glory be the envy of our gods!
And if they deem us worthy, that they grant us the power to rise out of our graves and meet battle again!
We decide our end! We decide our fate! And now is the time to decide!


It is time that we stop blaming the faults of this game on the game itself, and realize that the community plays a heavy role in its quality. The future of Strategus is as much our responsibility as it is the developers'. The developers are doing their part, it is time that we, the community, do ours. We can make this very fun and worthwhile. We just have to respect each other, work together, have integrity, and use our creativity.

The Proposition: All clan leaders agree to meet together in Teamspeak and discuss and suggest methods and rules to make Strategus more fun for everyone. Every leader will be given a time to speak and put forth their suggestions and at the end we will all vote on each one. A full list of passed rules will be provided to everyone who participates. Anyone who plans on participating in the next Strategus is welcome to come and listen. The rules that pass will be enforced through Roleplay. Those who break these rules will be considered rebel factions, primitives, bandits, whatever you'd fancy, and will be dealt with by the civilized factions who follow the universal laws. The objective here is not to limit anyone from their own personal fun, but to add flavor and encourage those of us who affect Strategus on a global level to help create an experience we can all enjoy.

Here are five examples of propositions that could be voted on:
*Influenced by Crusader Kings II gameplay

The Casus Belli Proposal
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The De Jure & Titles Proposal
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The Mercenary Integrity Proposal
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The Balance of Power Proposal
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The Immersion Proposal
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This meeting would probably take place sometime in early December, before Strategus 6 launches. We can publicly post all the proposals here, so everyone is up to date on what material will be discussed and has time to prepare arguments. Teamspeak will be used just to finalize everything and issue the votes. Again, these are all just proposals that could potentially make the next strategus more fun, please be constructive when posting any and keep in mind each proposal is in assumption that the majority of clans will follow it.

If you are a clan leader and you are interested in participating say so in here so we can have an idea of how much collaboration there will be. We will all agree on a time and date that is convenient for as many of us as possible.

Template:
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Notes:
* This does not have to be exclusive to NA. EU and other regions may participate. However, English will be the language spoken.
* The reason clan leaders are voting and not just anyone is because they will be responsible for enforcing the decided proposals on their individual clans.
* Although only clan leaders are allowed to vote, everyone is allowed to give input.
* A clan leader must have 5 active members to be considered eligible to vote. We know mostly everyone by now so don't bother trying to make shit up.

Let's be friendly.


Leaders Attending:
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Current Proposals:
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Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 17, 2014, 06:16:02 pm
No.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Voncrow on October 17, 2014, 06:18:26 pm
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How is this that much different from strat 5? Other than actual roleplay.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Auphilia on October 17, 2014, 06:23:24 pm
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How is this that much different from strat 5? Other than actual roleplay.

I'd answer this question if I didn't just spend an hour or so answering it in further detail above.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Jack1 on October 17, 2014, 06:36:09 pm
Jack1 leader of go do the dishes(needs revising most likely) accepts invitation to the meeting assuming I can make it.

Anti annexation proposal


 
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Comments: basically strategus gets ruined by factions that are composed by multiple clans(FCC, LCO, VE in strat 4, squids, LCO, wardans of the north, KBW now.) the game adds a large amount of diversity when the game contains many more smaller clans in smaller factions than many clans in larger ones.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Auphilia on October 17, 2014, 06:48:32 pm
I would agree on that, but at the same time a lot of these clans are a fraction of the size they use to be. LCO for example, activity wise, are they really that large?
Hospitallers at one point was larger than all of LCO currently, and so was Occitan. If they agreed to split up, they would be very small, I'd imagine.


Also, I don't mind having a few very large clans. Their size might make them Kings, and force them to never be allies. The kings would have a lot of responsibility and have to maintain order in their own realms. If Dukes turn on them because they are being tyrants, and the other King takes the opportunity to attack, they wouldn't be in such a great situation. Also if we evenly distribute fiefs to clans, a large clan would only have a few more fiefs than a small/moderate clan. It would only give them more troop farmers, not really more gold and equipment.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 17, 2014, 07:10:55 pm
You can't force people to not be allies, whether its official or not.  What we should really do is just pair off clans and force them to go to war with each other or a dev takes their fiefs away and returns it to AI.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Balikar on October 17, 2014, 07:59:36 pm
Honestly, I think some of the things that need to be fixed have nothing to do with clans at all.  They have to do with the mechanics. 

Issue:  Rosters
Possible Fix:  Battle and Siege servers go offline five minutes before a strat battle for strat preparations.  If one side fills their roster, and the others do not, the players are funnelled onto the other team's roster until it's full.  Downside, yes, 'bad' players may be put on the unfilled roster, but in all honesty, the merc advantage of the other side would likely overpower the unfilled roster anyway.  In close rostered battles, this becomes an issue...  But when it's 30 vs 10, the other side needs the people.

Issue:  Crime
Possible fix:  Either reduce the rate in which troops are lost, or install a different kind of fix.  For example, troops lost to crime increase the population.  If the population goes over 'x' percentage in comparison to the garrison, there's an AI revolt.  Either it's an actual battle, or the fief simply 'turns.'  Silver drops to 0.  Original strat equipment is in place, yada yada wolf wolf.

Issue:  Alliances
You can complain all you want about alliances, but in all honesty, nothing will change.  If you have 100 little factions, there's nothing stopping them from 'blocking' together. 

Issue:  Faction size  (Anti Annexation Proposal Explained)
Possible Fix:  Don't allow people from different factions to join other factions while maintaining their original banner.  IE an Astralis member joins the Squids in Strat, but stays in Astralis (Yes, it happened).  This would stop a lot, but in all honesty, if someone wants to be in one mega faction, they'll end up there somehow. 
Possible Fix:  Limited Ladder Sizes.  Yes, make people make decisions on who is in their faction rather than allowing anyone and everyone.  How many times have we heard Kesh say '8 man faction..'  and heard other people (myself included) say that ladder size doesn't denote activity. 

Issue:  Economy

Issue:  Themed armies
Honestly, there's no way to limit the gear someone uses.  When the winning army leaves the field, they have looted gear.  There's no way to stop them from using it.  And in all honesty, they shouldn't have to.  ;-)   Since gear degrades, I'm all for keeping armies in play rather than having them fight twice, and have to go back into trade mode to re equip themselves.

Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Jona on October 17, 2014, 08:21:20 pm
Jack1 leader of go do the dishes(needs revising most likely) accepts invitation to the meeting assuming I can make it.

Anti annexation proposal


 
(click to show/hide)



Comments: basically strategus gets ruined by factions that are composed by multiple clans(FCC, LCO, VE in strat 4, squids, LCO, wardans of the north, KBW now.) the game adds a large amount of diversity when the game contains many more smaller clans in smaller factions than many clans in larger ones.

I always thought that strat factions and crpg clans should be the same entity... whatever clan your strat hero is in on the ladder is the same faction that you are in for strat. Sure alliances could still be formed, and there is nothing that would ever stop that, but at least you wouldn't be able to see what is going on with your allies. You can't see their movements, their gear/gold/goods, etc. Where there is uncertainty, there is unrest.

Clan leader #1: "Hey man, we are under attack, could you send some troops our way?"
Clan leader #2: "Nah, sorry. We don't have any to spare."
Clan leader #1: "Bullshit! You haven't done shit all strat, you've got to have some laying around."
*Clan leader #1 leaves alliance between clans 1 and 2 and relations turn sour between the two clans leading to war, more battles, more fun, more xp, etc.*

Well, that is how I would hope it would play out, but undoubtedly large mega factions will find ways to bypass such things (account sharing, etc.). Not to mention the mega factions could still exist by having all the clans that make up the faction join the same clan, like LCOH and FCC (and to a lesser extent kbw). Even if clans don't banner stack together, this method still allows for massive clans (AoW and MB, for example) to have massive factions as well. We should really just have a hard cap on the number of members each faction can contain. But then this will simply lead to FFC Faction A, FCC Faction B, etc. I know that the devs were interested in good ideas for limiting the size of factions somehow when planning strat 5, but there is frankly no good solution to this problem that has been proposed yet, so the mega factions remain an issue. Get your thinking caps on, everybody...
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Auphilia on October 17, 2014, 08:41:48 pm
That is just the thing though, instead of trying to rely on the developers to create some wonky mechanics fix to roster problems, or mega-clan problems, why can't we just have some decency and integrity and play fairly with each other? The developers wouldn't have to create these mechanics if we just had integrity. No one wants to play monopoly with some asshole who starts off with twice as much money as you. No one wants to play poker with some group of friends who are looking at each others cards and snickering about how easy it is to manipulate the game and win every single time. The purpose of this thread is to avoid looking towards the developers to solve every problem, and to take some responsibility ourselves. The problem isn't mechanics, the problem is a community of cowardly, cheating, dishonorable, poor-sportsmen, min-maxing, trolling, griefing, exploiting, cockroaches that crawl in and out of every crack and flaw they can find in the system. In real life, no one plays with assholes who play this way. People just figure out they aren't worth bothering with. Online we have to deal with it, or create a collaboration of solutions. Rosters can be solved without mechanics. Mega-factions can be solved without any codding. It's as simple as everyone agreeing to play fair.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 17, 2014, 09:03:21 pm
Well, one way to help with the roster/alliance problem would be to make all applications automatically be to both teams, unless you are in one of the factions fighting.  That way mercs are just mercs.  Unfortunately, that would make people join factions together, but at least any spillover, will be available to the other side.

if we just had integrity.
No one in this entire mod has integrity.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: BaleOhay on October 17, 2014, 09:18:23 pm
This strat did not have FCC and look how bad it is.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Jona on October 17, 2014, 09:28:22 pm
The problem isn't mechanics, the problem is a community of cowardly, cheating, dishonorable, poor-sportsmen, min-maxing, trolling, griefing, exploiting, cockroaches that crawl in and out of every crack and flaw they can find in the system. In real life, no one plays with assholes who play this way. People just figure out they aren't worth bothering with. Online we have to deal with it, or create a collaboration of solutions. Rosters can be solved without mechanics. Mega-factions can be solved without any codding. It's as simple as everyone agreeing to play fair.

Exactly. And as you said, online we are stuck with having to deal with them, hence many people have chosen not to deal with them, hence strat is dead.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Chosen1 on October 17, 2014, 11:43:37 pm
This strat did not have FCC and look how bad it is.

but it did though? did you not attend the VC Day celebrations or something  :?
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Holiday203 on October 18, 2014, 02:26:28 pm
Honestly, I think some of the things that need to be fixed have nothing to do with clans at all.  They have to do with the mechanics. 

Issue:  Rosters
Possible Fix:  Battle and Siege servers go offline five minutes before a strat battle for strat preparations.  If one side fills their roster, and the others do not, the players are funnelled onto the other team's roster until it's full.  Downside, yes, 'bad' players may be put on the unfilled roster, but in all honesty, the merc advantage of the other side would likely overpower the unfilled roster anyway.  In close rostered battles, this becomes an issue...  But when it's 30 vs 10, the other side needs the people.

Issue:  Crime
Possible fix:  Either reduce the rate in which troops are lost, or install a different kind of fix.  For example, troops lost to crime increase the population.  If the population goes over 'x' percentage in comparison to the garrison, there's an AI revolt.  Either it's an actual battle, or the fief simply 'turns.'  Silver drops to 0.  Original strat equipment is in place, yada yada wolf wolf.

Issue:  Alliances
You can complain all you want about alliances, but in all honesty, nothing will change.  If you have 100 little factions, there's nothing stopping them from 'blocking' together. 

Issue:  Faction size  (Anti Annexation Proposal Explained)
Possible Fix:  Don't allow people from different factions to join other factions while maintaining their original banner.  IE an Astralis member joins the Squids in Strat, but stays in Astralis (Yes, it happened).  This would stop a lot, but in all honesty, if someone wants to be in one mega faction, they'll end up there somehow. 
Possible Fix:  Limited Ladder Sizes.  Yes, make people make decisions on who is in their faction rather than allowing anyone and everyone.  How many times have we heard Kesh say '8 man faction..'  and heard other people (myself included) say that ladder size doesn't denote activity. 

Issue:  Economy

Issue:  Themed armies
Honestly, there's no way to limit the gear someone uses.  When the winning army leaves the field, they have looted gear.  There's no way to stop them from using it.  And in all honesty, they shouldn't have to.  ;-)   Since gear degrades, I'm all for keeping armies in play rather than having them fight twice, and have to go back into trade mode to re equip themselves.

Just some thoughts.

You're fucking stupid.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on October 18, 2014, 05:18:10 pm
You're fucking stupid.

pls no bully
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Switchtense on October 18, 2014, 05:39:27 pm
Honestly, I think some of the things that need to be fixed have nothing to do with clans at all.  They have to do with the mechanics. 

Issue:  Rosters
Possible Fix:  Battle and Siege servers go offline five minutes before a strat battle for strat preparations.  If one side fills their roster, and the others do not, the players are funnelled onto the other team's roster until it's full.  Downside, yes, 'bad' players may be put on the unfilled roster, but in all honesty, the merc advantage of the other side would likely overpower the unfilled roster anyway.  In close rostered battles, this becomes an issue...  But when it's 30 vs 10, the other side needs the people.

Many people do not fight in Strat battles because they dislike them.
many people are not being accepted into Strat battles because they are wankers.
I personally do not want to have someone who is either the worst player ever, a complete dingbat or someone who does not even wanna play in my team.
I would rather be outnumbered.
Cause people from these 3 categories will harm your team more than benefit it.

Issue:  Crime
Possible fix:  Either reduce the rate in which troops are lost, or install a different kind of fix.  For example, troops lost to crime increase the population.  If the population goes over 'x' percentage in comparison to the garrison, there's an AI revolt.  Either it's an actual battle, or the fief simply 'turns.'  Silver drops to 0.  Original strat equipment is in place, yada yada wolf wolf.

Just remove economically created crime, and make crime rise when there are more than X troops in the fief.

Issue:  Alliances
You can complain all you want about alliances, but in all honesty, nothing will change.  If you have 100 little factions, there's nothing stopping them from 'blocking' together. 

Issue:  Faction size  (Anti Annexation Proposal Explained)
Possible Fix:  Don't allow people from different factions to join other factions while maintaining their original banner.  IE an Astralis member joins the Squids in Strat, but stays in Astralis (Yes, it happened).  This would stop a lot, but in all honesty, if someone wants to be in one mega faction, they'll end up there somehow. 
Possible Fix:  Limited Ladder Sizes.  Yes, make people make decisions on who is in their faction rather than allowing anyone and everyone.  How many times have we heard Kesh say '8 man faction..'  and heard other people (myself included) say that ladder size doesn't denote activity. 

Why tell people who to play with? If I was forced to join Faction A, or not join a faction at all, I would not even bother playing Strat.
You gotta make Strat interesting, not put even more restrictions in.

Issue:  Economy

Well simple, make gear cheaper again.

Issue:  Themed armies
Honestly, there's no way to limit the gear someone uses.  When the winning army leaves the field, they have looted gear.  There's no way to stop them from using it.  And in all honesty, they shouldn't have to.  ;-)   Since gear degrades, I'm all for keeping armies in play rather than having them fight twice, and have to go back into trade mode to re equip themselves.

Dunno why this should be up for discussion anyway.

Just some thoughts.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Bryggan on October 18, 2014, 06:13:43 pm
The reason I never went on Strat battles before this round was because I'm so crappy.  I felt guilty that I was getting killed so much and getting so few kills.  So I stopped applying.

Now I have my own armies, so I don't feel as bad for wasting other people's ticks when I quite happily waste my own.  Plus having lots of bad players is better than not having enough to defend your flags or to kill enough enemy ticks when attacking.  Better having a guy get killed 50 times than losing all your ticks due to timer running out.

The reason there are two factions is because people want guaranteed roster support.  I've been trying to sign up for whichever side has the least mercs, and that pretty much has been the Squid side everytime.  Fortunately the ASA guys don't care, because they know I'm trying to keep strat fun, but mainly cuz I don't make much of a difference.

Personally I think too many people have personal grudges from previous strats, plus the desire to win at any cost.  People say they want even battles, but they really don't.  They want to capture all the gear and not lose ticks, and they get quite angry when they lose a huge, expensive army due to bad roster support.  Which is understandable.

I think Strat battles should be put on NA1, and you should be able to earn gold.  Then people would have to play.  Of course Admins would have to be on battles to boot any trollers.  Also, if you lose a battle due to timers or getting your flag captured, you should be able to keep at least 50% of your surviving men and gear, and not teleport.  This all or nothing bullshit has got to end.
 
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Artyem on October 18, 2014, 10:09:16 pm
Strat 6 would be awesome if they just tweaked the mechanics of Strat 2 to be more accommodating to the current player base.

All items start at +0 and can be upgraded from there.
Troop recruitment could stay the same.
Item costs are reduced.
Crime is either removed or changed.

Keep it simple, don't add too many crazy changes or you'll just scare away even more people.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Dutchydave on October 19, 2014, 01:29:05 am
Well I think roll back to strat4 rules would be a massive improvement.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: MURDERTRON on October 19, 2014, 01:34:06 am
Crime is pretty sweet, I've been able to capitalize on it plenty of time, as it penalizes mismanagement.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Smoothrich on October 19, 2014, 01:53:50 am
How about a secret evil jew cabal that has incredibly damaging blackmail material that would get people permabanned from cRPG or embarrassing real life information that would get them beat up at their junior high.

If anyone does anything but melodramatic, hate-filled primetime good gear 1k vs 1k minimum battles, their cRPG/real lives will be ruined by the cabal.

I would start with the OP but they seem to have freely posted all of their blackmail material on the forums already..
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on October 19, 2014, 02:33:37 am
How about a secret evil jew cabal that has incredibly damaging blackmail material that would get people permabanned from cRPG or embarrassing real life information that would get them beat up at their junior high.

If anyone does anything but melodramatic, hate-filled primetime good gear 1k vs 1k minimum battles, their cRPG/real lives will be ruined by the cabal.

I would start with the OP but they seem to have freely posted all of their blackmail material on the forums already..

haha look at this guy who doesnt have access to the crpg wikileaks blackmail dropbox
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Balikar on October 19, 2014, 04:21:37 am
You're fucking stupid.

Holiday, haven't seen you put in anything better. 

The reason I never went on Strat battles before this round was because I'm so crappy.  I felt guilty that I was getting killed so much and getting so few kills.  So I stopped applying.

Now I have my own armies, so I don't feel as bad for wasting other people's ticks when I quite happily waste my own.  Plus having lots of bad players is better than not having enough to defend your flags or to kill enough enemy ticks when attacking.  Better having a guy get killed 50 times than losing all your ticks due to timer running out.

The reason there are two factions is because people want guaranteed roster support.  I've been trying to sign up for whichever side has the least mercs, and that pretty much has been the Squid side everytime.  Fortunately the ASA guys don't care, because they know I'm trying to keep strat fun, but mainly cuz I don't make much of a difference.

Personally I think too many people have personal grudges from previous strats, plus the desire to win at any cost.  People say they want even battles, but they really don't.  They want to capture all the gear and not lose ticks, and they get quite angry when they lose a huge, expensive army due to bad roster support.  Which is understandable.

I think Strat battles should be put on NA1, and you should be able to earn gold.  Then people would have to play.  Of course Admins would have to be on battles to boot any trollers.  Also, if you lose a battle due to timers or getting your flag captured, you should be able to keep at least 50% of your surviving men and gear, and not teleport.  This all or nothing bullshit has got to end.
 


Well said Bryggan.  The number one complaint you hear from those who put armies together is that they didn't have the roster to USE those armies.  Troops and gear have mattered in the past, but now a 100 man army actually stands a chance at taking out a 1000 man army.  Not because of strategy, or skill...  simply because the other army couldn't get a roster.  It's sad.  And with rosters in their current state, ie high risk, it keeps people from taking chances, and makes them care bear more. 
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Malgalad on October 20, 2014, 05:37:53 am
 8-) If someone want to get married. My village New Peshmi sell +3 Crown of Flowers,+3Bride Dress,+3Bride Shoes and Smoke Bomb. It's always opened for everyone include opposite faction.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on October 20, 2014, 08:13:32 pm
8-) If someone want to get married. My village New Peshmi sell +3 Crown of Flowers,+3Bride Dress,+3Bride Shoes and Smoke Bomb. It's always opened for everyone include opposite faction.

how much discount %
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Farrix on October 22, 2014, 01:08:43 am
If this happens, I offer my services as chair of this meeting. I am a certified parliamentarian, have chaired many political committees in my life, and thus am very well qualified to divvy out time/maintain an appropriate level of decorum/see to it that the meeting goes smoothly and productively. I also promise to use my advantageous knowledge of parliamentary procedure to ensure that all proposals guarantee my overwhelming victory in strat 6 and that I am declared God-Emperor of Calradia. PM me if you so desire.
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: traxits on October 22, 2014, 04:42:36 am
If this happens, I offer my services as chair of this meeting. I am a certified parliamentarian, have chaired many political committees in my life, and thus am very well qualified to divvy out time/maintain an appropriate level of decorum/see to it that the meeting goes smoothly and productively. I also promise to use my advantageous knowledge of parliamentary procedure to ensure that all proposals guarantee my overwhelming victory in strat 6 and that I am declared God-Emperor of Calradia. PM me if you so desire.

nigga u the next einstein WHY IS THE NAME OF THE FUHRER OF THE THIRD REICH CORRECTING TO EINSTEIN
Title: Re: To the Nobles of Strategus
Post by: Farrix on October 22, 2014, 07:31:15 pm
nigga u the next einstein WHY IS THE NAME OF THE FUHRER OF THE THIRD REICH CORRECTING TO EINSTEIN

This chair shall not be swayed by personal flattery! As punishment, I sentence you to 5 minutes in the woods with dick Cheney. You will have two tools at your disposal for survival. First is a sign that says, "I am not a bird." If that doesn't save you, you'll have a picture of a gay couple kissing. His confusion may save you. Good luck sir.