cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thryn on August 28, 2014, 10:48:41 pm
Title: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Thryn on August 28, 2014, 10:48:41 pm
This is for entertainment; I also would like to say that I think weapon balance (like the balanced or unbalanced statistic in-game) should play a bigger part/should be reworked in M&B, but that won't happen anyway. It's fun to poke at though :D.
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Wolfsblood on August 28, 2014, 10:59:55 pm
This is for entertainment; I also would like to say that I think weapon balance (like the balanced or unbalanced statistic in-game) should play a bigger part/should be reworked in M&B, but that won't happen anyway. It's fun to poke at though :D.
i feel like what e is talking about with speed and footwork is really well represented in mnb already. its why s keying is so useful. it doesnt matter how slow ur wep is if u can hit them before they can close the distance with their fast little wep if urs is significantly longer (to a point of course).
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Pawiu on August 29, 2014, 12:35:08 am
ooh fucking katanas xd
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Thryn on August 29, 2014, 04:21:49 am
lol one time he picked up a katana and was like "okay, so here's the katana. we already know that it's been folded 4 gazillion times and can cut through a tank -"
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Elerion on August 29, 2014, 09:45:50 am
cRPG is pretty consistent with this. He is talking mainly about games where distance is not relevant (e.g. WoW), in which the fast weapon will hit first. That's a logical fallacy.
If I understand him correctly, he says that in real life, the longer heavier weapon would hit first due to the longer reach. If the combatants move away from each other after the attempted strike (like olympic fencing), that pattern will repeat. If the combatants move closer to each other, subsequent hits will be quicker with the lighter and more balanced weapon, due to inertia.
That's exactly how it works in cRPG.
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Macbeth3 on August 29, 2014, 01:12:54 pm
cRPG is pretty consistent with this. He is talking mainly about games where distance is not relevant (e.g. WoW), in which the fast weapon will hit first. That's a logical fallacy.
If I understand him correctly, he says that in real life, the longer heavier weapon would hit first due to the longer reach. If the combatants move away from each other after the attempted strike (like olympic fencing), that pattern will repeat. If the combatants move closer to each other, subsequent hits will be quicker with the lighter and more balanced weapon, due to inertia.
That's exactly how it works in cRPG.
So it's basically. Longer weapons = First strike. Shorter/lighter/balanced weapons = Faster continueous strikes. It seems he's also saying that a relativly small size-difference shoudn't alter speed much, if at all. This behaviour/reasoning resets when the combatants disengage and re-engage, starting from the beginning with the longer weapon having it's reach-advantage again.
I'm pretty sure "skill" should also be taken into account. Someone more proficient would probly be faster. But to be honest, isn't this exactly how C-rpg works for the most part anyway? :3
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Phew on August 29, 2014, 07:07:12 pm
I always think of warband combat like tennis (I play a lot of tennis, although I'm not so great at it). It's turn based, and much more about sweetspots and momentum transfer than swing speed or strength.
The musclebound brute that just swings the racquet as hard as he can rarely actually delivers a winner; usually he commits an error or hits an easily returnable ball. But I've seen <100 lb girls that absolutely crush the ball, and it's because they transfer all of their momentum forward during contact and hit right on the racquet's sweetspot. They aren't actually expending any energy on the "swing"; their racquet is just the last link a kinetic chain that starts with weight transfer from their feet.
In cRPG, that's analogous to the players that take advantage of holds, footwork, head bonus, and speed bonus. San has 5 Power Strike and a 34c weapon, but he hits harder than most players with a longsword and 8PS, because every strike is a held strike to the head with full speed bonus.
Swing speed is a different discussion; the old, wide sweetspots rendered the weapon's stated speed nearly irrelevant, because you could hit early in the animation with good footwork and turning into your swing. The sweetspot change nullified that advantage, and the weapon's animation speed is everything again. Which is why the popularity of polearms is through the roof now, because the polearm overhead and right swing are insanely fast and erratic now, which offers a huge advantage over the smooth 2h animations.
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: Thryn on August 29, 2014, 10:18:07 pm
I'm not going to write a horrendously long post, for I originally intended to get people thinking by starting this thread. However, I feel I should at least say one thing: Mount and Blade is better than other games at portraying melee combat, but when you compare those other games & M&B to real or simulated (sparring) combat, M&B is just the shiniest of the turds. So please, think harder if the first thing that comes to mind when you watch the video is "Mount and Blade is a realistic fighting game that depicts footwork and fighting very well."
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: bensai on August 30, 2014, 06:38:49 am
i dont want this mmo nerd dictating my game balance as if the big high damage weapons werent fast enough over small ones already!!!1 humbug
Title: Re: An Interesting Perspective on Weapon Speed
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 30, 2014, 07:25:27 am