cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Erseyr on July 29, 2014, 11:57:04 pm

Title: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Erseyr on July 29, 2014, 11:57:04 pm
Hello! been playing 1 month almost and I tested an archer build, changed generation and now I tested a 1h polearm build, I'm almost level 31 and I don't know what to do with the build, this is my actual build at level 30:


    Strength: 21
    Agility: 15
 
    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 7
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 5
    Athletics: 5
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 5

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 138
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

I think it's a good build, saw it somewhere around the forum, but maybe more points at weapon master would make me hit faster, but I'm glad with the 7 points at ironflesh and power strike, don't know what to do and just want some tips or what is best for 1h polearm shielder  :D

See you in game!
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Johammeth on July 30, 2014, 12:32:43 am
Looks good!

You're tanky, strong, and a little bit slow (which is fine). A light lance or ashwood pike will give you plenty of reach to make up for your lack of mobility and will help you perform your primary goal, infantry support.

(More on infantry support here)
http://forum.melee.org/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/let%27s-talk-about-the-basics-of-teamwork/msg891718/#msg891718 (http://forum.melee.org/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/let%27s-talk-about-the-basics-of-teamwork/msg891718/#msg891718)

Get used to using your defensive NUDGE key to shieldbash enemies away and interrupt their attacks on allies. The hitboxes are a bit wonky until you get the hang of it. You pretty much have to be within kissing range of an enemy at the instant you hit nudge, or you will miss.

Speaking of wonky hitboxes, here's a quick read on the way this game handles long weapons.

Quote from: Johammeth on October 20, 2013, 05:06:52 am
As I understand it:

There's an initial "dead space" at the beginning of each attack animation, a split second where the weapon is in motion, but it will automatically glance if it hits anything.

If you're standing right next to somebody, and you jab them straight on, you will hit them with the dead space and automatically glance.

But

If you're standing right next to somebody and you start the attack by stabbing the air next to them, it will hit only empty space during the dead zone (thereby avoiding the glance). After the attack is in motion, and has avoided the deadspin, grab your mouse and swing it to face the other side of your target. The weapon will magically stab them because the animation is now in its "active" phase (eg, not autoglance dead space).

Also you'll get a little damage boost, since this spear wiggling counts towards your speed bonus.

edit: whoops, I misread your original post.

Aim to the right, release attack, suddenly WHOOOOSH mouse over to the left side.

It's the same motion as some cartoonish boxer swinging a wildly exaggerated right hook. You have to pull wayy back (aim to the right) and then follow through (WOOSH to the left). The more exaggerated your pullback and WOOSH is, the closer you can bring the active phase of the animation to your character, and the closer you can facestab people.

Just remember that your weapon MODEL itself has nothing to do with scoring a hit. Focus, instead, on manipulating the invisible hitbox that DOES determine whether or not you hit.

edit2:

I'm bored and worked up a shitty infographic about wigglyspear facestabs for any new players who stumble across this thread.

Enjoy:
(click to show/hide)

I hope this helps a bit, good luck!
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Tojo on July 30, 2014, 04:34:57 am
Don't forget to bring a dagger for when the fight gets up close and personal. 7 power strike and a dagger stab is still deadly with 0 wpf in 1h.

Listen to Johameth
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Screaming Idiot on July 30, 2014, 05:42:47 am
I would recommend any 1-hander with 100 speed (or more) as a backup. Having a 100+ speed weapon negates the lack of WPF from creating a glaring difference regarding how quickly you can attack. Useful for surprising your opponent by dancing around them and spamming.
My personal favorites are the Scottish Sword, any of the Daos, and the Spammytar.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 30, 2014, 05:59:18 am
I've always found builds that rely on stabs really tricky, since up to a certain point, speed bonuses from athletics/agility give much greater damage bonuses on stabs than either PS or WPF.

I'm personally not a big fan of IF or 5 difficulty shields, so I'd do something like this if you're also using a 1h.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Switchtense on July 30, 2014, 12:34:49 pm
Did not read the other replies, but I have been playing polearm for quite a while, with different variations.

A good build depends on your playstyle and the weapons you wanna use.

Also if you are planning on using your shield actively you do not need that much Iron Flesh.

If you wanna use your shield all the time I'd say:

(click to show/hide)


Or if you do not want to use your shield all the time, then some Iron Flesh would be useful:

(click to show/hide)


That is personal preferency of myself. Which build and weaponry you will end up using is completely up to you.
Use your Skip the fun to try several builds and weapons just to see which playstyle suits you best.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Erseyr on July 30, 2014, 12:43:09 pm
thanks guys for the help! I alredy use Shieldbash when I'm 1vs1 or to stun an enemy and broke his defense so mates can hit him, also using a Red Tassel Spear, good range and it's a fast spear.

I put 7 points on IF and 5 at Shields because I'm not very good blocking with the weapon yet, and like to have some tank skills to take some damage without die in 1 hit hehe, maybe the next build I try to do it less tanker.

Also I always did a role of support in melee fights ( when I try to be brave and rush I usually die because 2-3 of them attack me at the same time, it's hard to keep them away  :D ),in melee fights I try to keep them away with the spear and when a mate its under attack, I help them stabbing the enemy by the side while the enemy is attacking, or also attacking cavalry, I saw spears are very good for kill them hehe, and defending our archers when melee enemies are attacking them.

Thanks Johammeth for the tip about hitboxes, sometimes it's hard to bash them I agree hehe

Tojo I always have a long dagger, but usually when I have to use it I'm alredy very low hp so only can hit them 1-2 times max with it, maybe I have to learn to move better into the fight.

Screaming Idiot, saw in another post something about 100 speed on weapons, and I'll buy a faster spear to test it that then  :D

and Huscarlton Banks and Switchtense, maybe I try an hibrid of your builds on the next generation, seems they are good builds, I'm using medium armor and it's not bad, but I saw sometimes I can hold better with a heavy armor, currently I'm testing all types of armors, and actually I'm using medium-heavy armor sets, I'm comparing how I tank with them and the upkeep cost of the armor, I'm not rich but got 100k of cash and don't want to burn it repairing the armor hehe

Again thanks for the help guys!
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Switchtense on July 30, 2014, 06:08:03 pm
If you are not very good at blocking manually, I suggest you to completely drop that shield :)

It is incredibly frustrating at first, constantly dying and stuff, but that way you will learn to be more efficient at blocking a whole lot faster than when you use a shield half the time (Or even more)

Once you are somewhat good at manual blocking you will be a lot more efficient as a shielder as well (For when the shield breaks, and you know what is possible about blocking manually and what isn't, which makes you attacking them more efficient as well)
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Tojo on July 30, 2014, 06:51:38 pm
Quote from: Switchtense on July 30, 2014, 06:08:03 pm
If you are not very good at blocking manually, I suggest you to completely drop that shield :)

It is incredibly frustrating at first, constantly dying and stuff, but that way you will learn to be more efficient at blocking a whole lot faster than when you use a shield half the time (Or even more)

Once you are somewhat good at manual blocking you will be a lot more efficient as a shielder as well (For when the shield breaks, and you know what is possible about blocking manually and what isn't, which makes you attacking them more efficient as well)
^ This and...

After 16 gens of playing or trying almost every class, all of them benefit from being able to manual block. It is the heart of the game and the "skill ladder" of the game. It only takes some practice time on the duel server to be able to manually block. grab a friend or anyone who is willing and hop on a duel server. Use clubs, or a staff since you are polearm, and practice only blocking. Once you can block 3-4 fast attacks you can start to duel while fighting back. Starting slow helps, eventually you can speed up the fight until its full speed.

As long as you can block 3-4 enemy attacks without taking damage you can increase your powerlevel over 9000. Also, I have experienced that the enemy will attack you less knowing you can block an obvious incoming attack. This allows you to play a more aggressive play style. The servers do have some people who are very good at dueling and will pursue you till death. They are the ones you can both learn form by blocking their attacks, and watching them play after you die.

Stick with it and you shall achieve greatness.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Erseyr on July 30, 2014, 09:50:48 pm
I noticed some of those things hehe, when I always die I watch the best ones of the round to see how they play, and its just amazing some times, and also when there is a 1vs1 I'm very surprised of the skill of some players.

Thanks for the tips guys, was very helpful, I'll try to apply all this ingame hehe, my idea was to test all the builds, or almost all the weapon types and armors and then focus on what I'm best :) also ill tell my mates to duel more often to learn blocking  :wink:

See ya in EU1 or around!
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Zanze on August 01, 2014, 10:07:14 pm
Quote from: Switchtense on July 30, 2014, 06:08:03 pm
If you are not very good at blocking manually, I suggest you to completely drop that shield :)

I actually disagree with this one statement. If you are not good at blocking manually, you should use a shield. A few reasons why I think that way.

Also this game is turn based.

You learn little when you're dead a few seconds into a round. (Watching good players is still good though)
You don't know you should be blocking until you are dead.
You panic and block sporadically.
You have difficultly adjusting to moving your mouse in the right direction. ( same with attacking)

All in all, I think a shield is GOOD if you can't block. Just as obvious as it sounds.

It keeps you alive longer.
It makes it easier to identify when to block.
Pressing the block button stops all damage from the front. (As opposed to only a direction)
No mouse movement required, even though it is highly suggested.

Game is still turn based.

A big negative of it though is the mindset of a shield as safe happy zone. Don't hold it up longer than you need to. Press it to block and let go. Holding it up is a bad habit. The solution is to think of your shield as something to protect. (what?) You DON'T want them hitting your shield. You want the shield up as little as possible, which brings you to either stand still or be attacking. Always attack. (incoming confusing statement) If you are attacking, they are not... unless they are. Rule of thumb to use when considering 90% of weapons. If they start attacking first, you must block or get hit. If you attack first, they must block or get hit. Footwork, weapon speed, and wpf all may change this rule but it is still there. This is why I say the game is turn based until you learn how to bend the rules. For now though, pick up a shield and stay alive as long as possible. The longer you live, the more you learn.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Tojo on August 01, 2014, 10:40:00 pm

The point is you have to learn manual block at some point and it's better sooner than later.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on August 01, 2014, 11:13:18 pm
21/18 is personally my favourite! only go for like 4/5 WM and 4 Shield with a big shield its all you need. After all you don't need many weapon points to just stab people only good teamwork :)
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Zanze on August 02, 2014, 01:55:33 am
Quote from: Tojo on August 01, 2014, 10:40:00 pm
The point is you have to learn manual block at some point and it's better sooner than later.

You don't have to run before you can walk.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Erseyr on August 04, 2014, 10:34:02 pm
I started with my first character (Archer) with a shield, because I died always in the first 1-2 hits, but now im able to block 3-4 hits usually, with my second character with Spear+Shield, my shield always explodes in the long fights so I had to learn to block hehe, but now im trying to block more  :D

again thanks for the help, you're always welcome to tell me anything if you see me in game to correct my gameplay  :wink:
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: Phew on August 05, 2014, 03:13:26 pm
Quote from: Tojo on August 01, 2014, 10:40:00 pm
The point is you have to learn manual block at some point and it's better sooner than later.

<- still can't block an overhead without obstructing his field of view then dying to the next swing.

Luckily(?) shields pretty much never break anyway; between kicks, crushthrough, and swings that magically go through your block, your shield will outlive you 90%+ of the time.
Title: Re: Question about 1H Polearm+Shield build
Post by: SugarHoe on August 12, 2014, 04:43:39 pm
Quote from: Phew on August 05, 2014, 03:13:26 pm
<- still can't block an overhead without obstructing his field of view then dying to the next swing.
(click to show/hide)
youre right, if youre a hoplite you shouldnt even be in a position where youre having multiple enemies swinging on you and no teamate is coming to help. Experienced hoplites cant really do a 4v1 most of the time because its only 1 direction swing anyone can just block down and then youre fucked. I normally drop my shield as a hoplite when i get into an even fight then pick it up when im done at rare ocassions because im terrible at this game
also would recommend using wse2 and use max FOV for noobs like u that havent learned that regular fov sux