cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Combaticus on July 17, 2014, 05:33:09 pm

Title: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Combaticus on July 17, 2014, 05:33:09 pm

Bring back pure STR builds... It was the only reason I would wear plate....

Everyone seems to be a spamy agi build now a days.

Sure I was slow as hell, but damn it I could one shot almost anyone!

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Sniger on July 18, 2014, 12:04:24 pm

Increase requirement on polearms/2h

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: pepejul on July 18, 2014, 12:11:08 pm

I made a STF with this build : 40 / 6   with 10 PS.... I m unable to oneshot pple  :shock: :shock: :shock:

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Macropus on July 18, 2014, 12:45:30 pm

Quote from: Combaticus on July 17, 2014, 05:33:09 pm

Bring back pure STR builds... It was the only reason I would wear plate....

Everyone seems to be a spamy agi build now a days.

Sure I was slow as hell, but damn it I could one shot almost anyone!

STR builds have never been removed, so feel free to play one.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Algarn on July 18, 2014, 02:14:58 pm

Damage you get are random, I got 64 hp, and you got a malus concerning wpf as a full str. I think it's still bullshit that str builds got nerfed so much compared to agi ones that got in fact buffed way too much (little reminder, each 10 effective wpf above 100 gives you 1.5% more damage, without forgetting hit's speed and also the speed bonus). Nerf that at least please, and give STR builds a purpose, since their hybridization is quite low in fact compared to agi ones.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: BlindGuy on July 18, 2014, 02:19:25 pm

Its typical crpg balance though: Agi got a huge nerf about 3 years ago, there really was very little point to it for a long time. Now, they went too far the other way.

But hey, no half measures, huh?!

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Combaticus on July 18, 2014, 08:49:07 pm

I just hate the fact that they essentially killed one of the funner aspects of crpg aka the ability to go customize an effective build from either extremity! I haven't really played much since they made the wpf changes back in November, but that patch really hindered me and my Walrus friends as now you NEEDED to have agility to get wpf. I mean I could deal with having 70 or 80 before hand, but i'm sitting close to 0 at it now. I just hate the fact that they narrowed the build dimensions with most builds being too agi spammy now adays. I mean really... how many tin cans do you even see playing now a days?

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 18, 2014, 08:58:54 pm

Being able to oneshot people while tanking 10 hits yourself just aint fair, even with the movementspeed of a slug. I still see people on eu1 stay true to str builds, bonk for example, and they still do fine. In a group fight with that amount of health and armour you should be able to turn the tides easily even without 1 hit potential.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Dalhi on July 18, 2014, 10:29:33 pm

I think it is power strike and gauntlets weight is what matters, I am pretty sure that Urist (Paul) code this some time ago, so you might want to dig his post for the formula, as he definatly post it.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Mr.K. on July 19, 2014, 01:06:43 pm

Quote from: Combaticus on July 18, 2014, 08:49:07 pm

I just hate the fact that they essentially killed one of the funner aspects of crpg aka the ability to go customize an effective build from either extremity!

When has 3/39 ever been a valid option? 9/30 still is and so are 30/9 or even more strength heavy builds.

0 and 1WM builds got destroyed by the wpf change. Heskey would do more damage with two less PS and two more WM than he does now. It's not like it's unusable still though.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 19, 2014, 03:49:14 pm

I do kind of miss shoving people 10-15 feet away.

If punch damage really isn't effected by PS I guess a captain amerifat build could be fun.

(click to show/hide)

Level 31 (8 735 843 xp)

    Strength: 29
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 64

    Skills to attributes: 22

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 0

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 75
    Throwing: 1

(click to show/hide)

Level 35 (180 977 644 xp)

    Strength: 30
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 85

    Skills to attributes: 16

    Ironflesh: 10
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 0

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 75
    Throwing: 1

(click to show/hide)

Level 31 (8 735 843 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 28
    Hit points: 53

    Skills to attributes: 20

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 3
    Athletics: 9
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 0

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 98
    Throwing: 1

(click to show/hide)

Level 35 (180 977 644 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 33
    Hit points: 53

    Skills to attributes: 22

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 3
    Athletics: 11
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 0

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 1
    Crossbow: 107
    Throwing: 1

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Combaticus on July 23, 2014, 08:20:20 pm

Quote from: Mr.K. on July 19, 2014, 01:06:43 pm

When has 3/39 ever been a valid option? 9/30 still is and so are 30/9 or even more strength heavy builds.

0 and 1WM builds got destroyed by the wpf change. Heskey would do more damage with two less PS and two more WM than he does now. It's not like it's unusable still though.

I got plenty of kills with my 3/39 dagger shield build, I mean it is possible to do it if you can pull it together. I just wish WPF would still go the other way around.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: BlindGuy on July 25, 2014, 06:15:46 pm

Quote from: Mr.K. on July 19, 2014, 01:06:43 pm

When has 3/39 ever been a valid option?

Sure, if you grab a scythe, and backpeddle while you spam like a mad man. Quickscythe does pretty well with it.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Admerius on July 30, 2014, 11:02:10 am

My idea on how to buff strength builds:

Buff ironflesh, strength itself is "balanced" enough.

Suggestion on added ironflesh mechanics:
Add "x" to the damage required to "stun/interrupt" actions(NOTE: You still take damage, it just doesn't interrupt you)

example formulas for "x"
Easy version:
Ironflesh/2, rounded down

less easy version:
"x"=(Square root of (2*Ironflesh+0,25))-0,5) rounded down

(click to show/hide)

Ironflesh..."x"
0...0
1-2...1
3-5...2
6-9...3
10-14...4
15-20...5

The point with this is to encourage those that play against Ironflesh heavy builds to make sure to land good hits or else they will just shrug it off(poor 0ps archers  :twisted:)

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Macropus on July 30, 2014, 01:57:53 pm

Quote from: BlindGuy on July 25, 2014, 06:15:46 pm

Sure, if you grab a scythe, and backpeddle while you spam like a mad man. Quickscythe does pretty well with it.

I'm pretty sure Quickscythe has more than 1 PS.

Before the agi buff, 39-3 build was infinite times more effective than 3-39. Now they both suck (in general).
Now str doesn't need a buff, instead I think reducing the speed bonus would be appropriate.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Kafein on July 30, 2014, 06:03:34 pm

HP meatsacks are extremely annoying and I'm very grateful they are fewer and weaker. Balanced builds with IF and armor can still survive way too many hits but that's a different issue entirely.

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Butan on July 30, 2014, 06:20:52 pm

Quote from: Kafein on July 30, 2014, 06:03:34 pm

Balanced builds with IF and armor can still survive way too many hits but that's a different issue entirely.

IF and armor is so cheaply obtained that balanced builds have easily 75% of the advantages of a strenght build, without the disadvantages.
If it was more strictly scaled to strenght, it would indirectly "bring back pure STR builds" in increasing the barrier to access good to extreme survivability (even though STR builds are still possible today, but I see the point of the OP title).

Title: Re: Bring back pure STR builds
Post by: Kafein on July 31, 2014, 02:11:16 am

I think the best option would be to remove bonus HP from STR and IF (maybe reduce IF to +1 HP) and instead make IF the requirement skill for armors. The best armors would require 7 or 8 IF like the "best" horses now do (or did at some point). That also means really heavy armors would need to be objectively better than medium/high ones, unlike now.

Of course that's technically not possible, though.