cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: PsychoTwins on July 12, 2014, 01:31:23 am

Title: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 12, 2014, 01:31:23 am
With the influx of ranged theres a small counter I have been using and it works pretty well. You just grab the 0 skill shield, hide covered round shield, and put it on your back.

When you KNOW you are gunna get shot just turn your back and the shield's 21 armor rating will absorb a great amount of damage for you.

I got 1 shield skill so I could use a 28 armor shield and made a video of how it works.


It took 10 arrows to kill me with a Yumi bow + tatar arrows and 6 PD. Normally I die in 2-3 shots from that HA. I only have 32 armor so for people who wear more armor they will see an even better tanking ability.  :D

Its not a hard counter but its def better than trying to actually shield arrows/bolts holding the shield out. The 0 skill shield is only 2 weight and it has 21 armor so it is definitely worth just having on your back to cover you while you are fighting at least.

Stats wise, only the armor rating of the shield counts into its absorbing ability, so if you have higher shield skill the plate shields (buckler doesnt work because it's on your hip) are great. Headshots/legshots dont get reduced damage but that still makes it more difficult for the ranged. Also, higher shield skill does not factor into the absorbability of the shield.

And unfortunately it doesn't reduce melee damage :p
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Rhaelys on July 12, 2014, 01:41:11 am
The formula is the shield's resistance stat + 10 that gets added to your body armor when a ranged projectile hits the correct area. So if you had 60 body armor with a hide covered round shield (0 shield skill), you would have an effective 91 body armor against projectiles that hit your back.

No, this isn't overpowered. I've tried it out at Farmer Bob's suggestion and while it's hiliarious with 75 body armor (106 effective versus ranged when hit in back) it's not game breaking. Good ranged will shoot my legs or head for massive damage, and if I actually try to use the shield it'll get 3 shot.

On a side note, the great lance and jousting lance count as ranged projectiles (ask Tydeus for details) due to how they were coded. I'll test it out in battle and report my findings.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Noodlenrice on July 12, 2014, 01:47:31 am
Tammo and I tested it out this morning. It works and is a great way to reduce damage.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 12, 2014, 02:11:10 am
Well ofc I'll turn my back to an archer when I try to chase him. Sure it will help lol.
I mean I will suffer less damage but won't ever catch him...
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Legs on July 12, 2014, 02:21:49 am
At last I truly see... the only real counter against archers...

Ninja turtles.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Rhaelys on July 12, 2014, 03:54:56 am
Quote from: sF_Guardian on July 12, 2014, 02:11:10 am
Well ofc I'll turn my back to an archer when I try to chase him. Sure it will help lol.
I mean I will suffer less damage but won't ever catch him...

To chase archers, what you can do is run at them, and when it looks like they're about to release their arrow (or bolt, or whatever) spin around in the air. I haven't put this into practice yet, but it sounds promising and hilarious.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: San on July 12, 2014, 04:23:38 am
Remove the double shield movement penalty so I can use this  :twisted:
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Lemon_ on July 12, 2014, 04:42:03 am
Quote from: Rhaelys on July 12, 2014, 01:41:11 am
The formula is the shield's resistance stat + 10 that gets added to your body armor when a ranged projectile hits the correct area. So if you had 60 body armor with a hide covered round shield (0 shield skill), you would have an effective 91 body armor against projectiles that hit your back.

No, this isn't overpowered. I've tried it out at Farmer Bob's suggestion and while it's hiliarious with 75 body armor (106 effective versus ranged when hit in back) it's not game breaking. Good ranged will shoot my legs or head for massive damage, and if I actually try to use the shield it'll get 3 shot.

On a side note, the great lance and jousting lance count as ranged projectiles (ask Tydeus for details) due to how they were coded. I'll test it out in battle and report my findings.

As for the lance part, I can tell you from experience (around 6 months of lancing) that people who have their back turned and have shields usually survive a couch. However, that may partially be due to the reduced speed bonus as presumably they are not running towards you, and may even be running away.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Geon on July 12, 2014, 05:39:30 am
I endorse this. HA doesn't need a nerf guys!
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: BlueKnight on July 12, 2014, 06:48:05 am
Quote from: Rhaelys on July 12, 2014, 01:41:11 am
On a side note, the great lance and jousting lance count as ranged projectiles (ask Tydeus for details) due to how they were coded. I'll test it out in battle and report my findings.

D-does that mean that w... we could chamber arrows? :O
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Lemon_ on July 12, 2014, 07:53:24 am
Rumor says you always have been able to!
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 13, 2014, 07:59:03 am
How To Chase Archers With Shield On Back

How To Counter Bitch Ass HA's


I had 58 body armor + 14 from gloves = 72

72 + shield armor bonus(21+10) = 103 total armor  :D

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: HardRice on July 13, 2014, 08:00:31 am
bob sucks
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: ShinySpoons on July 14, 2014, 09:54:26 am
This is wonderful lol
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Jacaroma on July 14, 2014, 08:56:16 pm
You just gonna.. okay. :mad:
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 14, 2014, 11:05:50 pm
Quote from: Jacaroma on July 14, 2014, 08:56:16 pm
You just gonna.. okay. :mad:

wut
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Jacaroma on July 14, 2014, 11:19:38 pm
Quote from: PsychoTwins on July 14, 2014, 11:05:50 pm
wut

Oh, he called me a bitch ass HA. :(
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Mokou on July 14, 2014, 11:20:52 pm
Back shields too good, plz nerf.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: sF_Guardian on July 15, 2014, 02:46:38 am
(click to show/hide)
No archer in Eu is dumb enough to get caught when you try to catch him while walking backwards. The shield and walking backwards slow you down like crazy.
As long as you can't kill him you don't really counter him.
Still I have my personal ranged counter, 9 ath   :evil:
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 15, 2014, 02:58:32 am
Funny because I did the exact same thing on EU and it worked fine.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Sari on July 15, 2014, 05:59:24 pm
Quote from: PsychoTwins on July 15, 2014, 02:58:32 am
Funny because I did the exact same thing on EU and it worked fine.


coming from the person that has high enough strength and maybe +3 plate that makes  low tier arrows and bow useless. Yes imma wait for the person moving backwards to come and kill me.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Herezy92 on July 15, 2014, 07:04:43 pm
I have testing it, it's worked quite well, ... if someone shoot you from behind.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 15, 2014, 08:16:52 pm
Quote from: Sari on July 15, 2014, 05:59:24 pm
coming from the person that has high enough strength and maybe +3 plate that makes  low tier arrows and bow useless. Yes imma wait for the person moving backwards to come and kill me.

Good thing you are a HX so you can run even easier than foot archers  :wink:
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Johammeth on July 15, 2014, 08:58:12 pm
I like this as a bandaid fix until the real solution:

Players who nudge/knockdown allied archers receive points towards valor for all damage that the enemy does to that archer  :twisted:
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Rico on July 15, 2014, 09:10:31 pm
Hello, I am Sari and you are all stupid. You talk like everything is so simple and easy. Never forget: The world is a dark place, and life is but grief. I HATE OPTIMISTS. :mrgreen:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Jacaroma on July 15, 2014, 09:35:24 pm
I've noticed more and more people doing this.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Phew on July 30, 2014, 03:02:46 pm
The reduction to shield weight+increase to shield armor many months ago was a huge gift for 2h/pole users trying to protect themselves against ranged. I'm amazed so few people took advantage of it, then continued to complain about ranged.

As a shielder, I've taken advantage of this mechanic for years when I know an archer is behind me (98 back armor), and it works wonders.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 30, 2014, 03:17:35 pm
Quote from: PsychoTwins on July 13, 2014, 07:59:03 am
How To Chase Archers With Shield On Back

How To Counter Bitch Ass HA's


I had 58 body armor + 14 from gloves = 72

72 + shield armor bonus(21+10) = 103 total armor  :D

(click to show/hide)

Whats up with your colors?
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Penitent on July 30, 2014, 03:19:32 pm
Or just...hold the shield in front of you and take 0 damage...you know...just saying.

If you zig zag just a little it's super rare that they'll shoot you in the feet.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Oberyn on July 30, 2014, 06:13:49 pm
Obviously, if you're a shielder and have shield skill. The tactic proposed is specifically for 2h and others who can only use 0 skill shields. You know, the ones who can take a hit or two from ranged at most before bursting appart. You  get much more defence out of it by taking hits to your back than actually using it in that case.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Working_Class on July 30, 2014, 09:01:42 pm
Does your shield skill affect this in anyway? Say, if i had 3 shield skill and used the shield bob was using, would i get a greater resistance to arrows?
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Rhaelys on July 30, 2014, 09:08:24 pm
Quote from: Working_Class on July 30, 2014, 09:01:42 pm
Does your shield skill affect this in anyway? Say, if i had 3 shield skill and used the shield bob was using, would i get a greater resistance to arrows?

Higher shield skill allow you to use higher resistance shields, but that's it.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on July 30, 2014, 09:16:05 pm
Quote from: Joseph Porta on July 30, 2014, 03:17:35 pm
Whats up with your colors?

What you mean?  :shock:
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Macbeth3 on July 30, 2014, 11:30:58 pm
I've been using this tactic to counter HA and yumi/nomad bow users that try to avoid me from reloading. Just turn my back while doing it and have my 61 armor shield on my back :)

Also I use it while running away from enemies (especially throwers) to reduce incoming damage but still mantaining higher running speed then running backwards + holding block. Sure I do get SOME damage from throwing weapons, but I can escape their group/blob.

Also, woudn't a board-shield be giving you strong back-coverate then? :o
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: San on July 30, 2014, 11:50:34 pm
Yeah, wish we knew if there was any force field. It seemed in PsychoTwin's videos that when someone tried to shoot at his head, the shield soaked up the hit. It was difficult to tell for sure, however.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Rhaelys on July 31, 2014, 12:27:59 am
Quote from: San on July 30, 2014, 11:50:34 pm
Yeah, wish we knew if there was any force field. It seemed in PsychoTwin's videos that when someone tried to shoot at his head, the shield soaked up the hit. It was difficult to tell for sure, however.

I can say that there doesn't seem to be a force field. When I was using this strategy in full plate, I was taking headshots for massive damage.
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: Joseph Porta on August 01, 2014, 08:35:26 pm
Quote from: PsychoTwins on July 30, 2014, 09:16:05 pm
What you mean?  :shock:

Its like fluorescent!  :o
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: PsychoTwins on August 02, 2014, 12:39:36 am
Quote from: Joseph Porta on August 01, 2014, 08:35:26 pm
Its like fluorescent!  :o
:o must be my low graphics  :?
Title: Re: Small archer/ranged counter
Post by: _Sebastian_ on August 02, 2014, 01:13:17 am
Quote from: PsychoTwins on July 30, 2014, 09:16:05 pm
What you mean?  :shock:
DirectX 7... the 8 bit graphics probably  :wink: