cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Falc on July 10, 2014, 09:36:07 pm

Title: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Falc on July 10, 2014, 09:36:07 pm
1) how important are upgraded weapons? and I guess the fastest way to get heirlooms is to simply play as much as possible?

2) what would be the best 2h sword for me if I want to hit hard and fast, am not very good at feinting and like to play offensively?

3) given my above playstyle and weapon, what would be the "best" spec for me?

4) how important is armor? is it viable to run with low armor to be hit less? is no helmet/boots viable?

5) whats the math behind the skills? power strike is 7% more damage, athletics is how much move speed? what does one wpf give me?

6) what do I do against heavy weapons that cannot be blocked?

7) same as 2) but 2h spear instead of sword? Should be viable in 1v1. Am I right that spears are bad 1v1 weapons, since the stab is the only attack that does proper damage and is thus easy to block?

8) are range values in cRPG just as skewed as in vanilla? With this I mean that certain weapon animations let for example a 2h sword right swing with 120 reach actually reach out further than a 2h spear stab(also 120 reach)?

Thanks in advance  :)
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 10, 2014, 09:53:46 pm
1) you are able to do well without heirlooms, if that answers your question. Ofcourse having them is an advantage, but far from a necessity.

2)
my main question for you is: can you block? In c-rpg people will block alot more then native players would.
I'd say use a Longsword or Heavy Bastard Sword to start out with, both are good weapons and easy to              handle.
Btw, feinting is a little different in c-rpg, especially with two handers. But you will see for yourself. :)

3)
Im not sure what your playstyle is, to be honest, everyone attacks and wants to do alot of damage.  :mrgreen:

4)
My theory about armor is is that the better you get at blocking - the less armour you will need, as lower tier armour weights less and thus makes your character more agile.

5)
There is a game mechanic thread that i'll edit in later. :mrgreen:
http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/game-mechanic-megathread!/ all the basic stuff you need to know.

6)
Only a few weapons can not be blocked, two handed mauls and the Long maul. Only the overheads of these weapons are unblockable, and the attack must be held. What you should do is attack asap, as these weapons are often slow.

7)
Spears are more of a support weapon, but they are VERY fast and thus very spammable and relatively harder to block. You will mostly try to attack alot and throw a surprise stab in, as stab will be your most effective attack.

8)
We do have different animations for some weapons, but I cant say for sure as I dont play native, perhaps someone else can answer your question better.
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Panos_ on July 10, 2014, 09:56:22 pm

I saw the name of the thread, and I though to myself "Great, time to help a new guy"
but then I stopped reading here

Quote from: Falc on July 10, 2014, 09:36:07 pm

2) what would be the best 2h sword for me if I want to hit hard and fast, am not very good at feinting and like to play offensively?


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Looking to play the mod the easiest way eh?  :?
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Latvian on July 10, 2014, 09:59:35 pm
Quote from: Falc on July 10, 2014, 09:36:07 pm
1) how important are upgraded weapons? and I guess the fastest way to get heirlooms is to simply play as much as possible? improved weapons gain a bit more speed and damage/yes

2) what would be the best 2h sword for me if I want to hit hard and fast, am not very good at feinting and like to play offensively? longsword is pretty good overall

3) given my above playstyle and weapon, what would be the "best" spec for me? at lvl 30 you should go for something like 21 str and 18 agility with maxed out power strike athletics weapon mastery and Iron flesh

4) how important is armor? is it viable to run with low armor to be hit less? is no helmet/boots viable?  use something slightly above medium and yes you should also use helmet and boots.

5) whats the math behind the skills? power strike is 7% more damage, athletics is how much move speed? what does one wpf give me?dunno/wpf slightly increases speed you use your weapon which also increases damage a abit.

6) what do I do against heavy weapons that cannot be blocked? i suppose you eman mauls. you can outspam them most of the time if they do overhead, you will elarn it by the time or you can just backpedal because they have short reach. best way ofcourse is not get on their way or coop with someone and just spam that mauler.

7) same as 2) but 2h spear instead of sword? Should be viable in 1v1. Am I right that spears are bad 1v1 weapons, since the stab is the only attack that does proper damage and is thus easy to block? do you want exactly spears because there are many pother decent polearms? and in propper hands any weapon is good ;)

8) are range values in cRPG just as skewed as in vanilla? With this I mean that certain weapon animations let for example a 2h sword right swing with 120 reach actually reach out further than a 2h spear stab(also 120 reach)? sort off

Thanks in advance  :)
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 10, 2014, 10:00:29 pm
1) Very important for the weaker weapons, due to the way armor soak works. Save up your loompoints/gold and put up an offer instead of taking the offers already present, you'll save some gold. Play in light/medium armor to get gold quickly.

Heirlooming gloves/body armor should be done before head/leg.

2) Miaodao is pretty strong/spammy. Any of the bastard sword type weapons work fine as well for spamming.

3) Varies, but generally higher AGI is better unless you're going strongfat heavy armor.

4) Wear armor on all slots if possible, experienced players will just slash at your squishy bits. Medium armor will generally let you be speedy enough while giving protection.

5) Power strike is 8% more per rank. Athletics is roughly equal to about 3-4 agility.

WPF gives a small damage bonus, a small swing speed bonus, decreases the chance you'll have upkeep with that weapon type, and increases ranged accuracy. (Actually applies to all melee weapons if you pick one, but with ranged it only affects the ones you raise)

Ignoring speed bonus, melee damage is:
weapon damage * {hold_bonus * (WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_strike*0.08+1.0)+strength/5.0}

6) Nudge them, swing at them with a sideswing, or dodge.

7) Spears do fine in 1vs1, you just have to do a lot of spinny feinty nonsense. +3 spears will do decent sideswing damage with 6+ powerstrike.

8) 2h stab still reaches further than pole stab, but there have been adjustments to a lot of animations.
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 10, 2014, 10:04:02 pm
Quote from: Panos_the_Bear on July 10, 2014, 09:56:22 pm
I saw the name of the thread, and I though to myself "Great, time to help a new guy"
but then I stopped reading here


MFW : visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Looking to play the mod the easiest way eh?  :?

And this is Panos! He might scare you at first but in reality hes a real cuddle bear!

Right, Panos?    :lol:
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Switchtense on July 10, 2014, 10:05:33 pm
1) how important are upgraded weapons? and I guess the fastest way to get heirlooms is to simply play as much as possible?
You can definitely survive without upgraded weapons. However, they make it a little easier to kill since they are faster, do a bit more damage etc depending on which weapon it is. (I personally use unupgraded weapons fairly often)

2) what would be the best 2h sword for me if I want to hit hard and fast, am not very good at feinting and like to play offensively?
I am not a 2h hero, but I would say the Longsword is pretty good. It is fast, not too short and it is quite strong.

3) given my above playstyle and weapon, what would be the "best" spec for me?
I don't know your playstyle :D
18Str 21Agi
21Str 18Agi
These two are basically good for starters, max out Power Strike and Athletics, then put some points in Weapon Master and Iron Flesh and you should be good.

4) how important is armor? is it viable to run with low armor to be hit less? is no helmet/boots viable?
Armour depends on your playstyle. Some people do awesome with Heavy Armour, some people suck with it.
I personally use medium/light armour. You gotta figure that out for yourself really.
The heavier the armour, the slower you are.
No helmet can be viable, depending on your playstyle. I have a character on which I am not using one, but that is purely looks wise :D

5) whats the math behind the skills? power strike is 7% more damage, athletics is how much move speed? what does one wpf give me?
Athletics make you faster. No idea by how much exactly.
One wpf does not do a lot. However, if you put 100 points into one proficiency then you definitely notice it.
Wpf makes you hit faster with your weapon, thus making you glance less often, and due to the faster swing speed it also does a little more damage.

6) what do I do against heavy weapons that cannot be blocked?
Every weapon can technically be blocked.
There are a few "crushthrough" weapons that can crush through your block when the other person does an overhead swing and has a lot of strength in general and compared to you. Those swings are very slow though so you can, if you get your timing right, hit him before he hits you.

7) same as 2) but 2h spear instead of sword? Should be viable in 1v1. Am I right that spears are bad 1v1 weapons, since the stab is the only attack that does proper damage and is thus easy to block?
Spears are polearms. So you need wpf in polearm. Polearms are different from 2h so I would not compare them. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.
A spear in a good players hands can be as deadly, even deadlier than a 2h sword. Blunt damage also does a lot of damage. And polearm swings are quite fast so they are not to be underestimated.
For duelling a Quarterstaff is insanely good due to its speed, even though it does not do a lot of damage compared to some of the "hard hitting" polearms.

8) are range values in cRPG just as skewed as in vanilla? With this I mean that certain weapon animations let for example a 2h sword right swing with 120 reach actually reach out further than a 2h spear stab(also 120 reach)?
The weapon reach is not the actual reach of the weapon. Each animation adds, or sustracts reach. The 2h stab does outreach many polearms if the timing is right. On the other hand, if you are good at using whatever polearm you are using you can outreach 2hs as well.

Hope that helps, I am sure some of the more veteran-ish players can give some more input :)
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: San on July 10, 2014, 10:06:15 pm
LttP here  :)

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1) how important are upgraded weapons? and I guess the fastest way to get heirlooms is to simply play as much as possible?

They are extremely important. Fully upgrading a weapon is inbetween 1 and 2 more powerstrike.

Quote
2) what would be the best 2h sword for me if I want to hit hard and fast, am not very good at feinting and like to play offensively?

Sword of War is a popular choice. Honestly, there are many variations based on how much you emphasize certain stats. You might be surprised and find yourself enjoying... say, the goedendag, more than the weapon previously depicted.

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3) given my above playstyle and weapon, what would be the "best" spec for me?

It sounds like you want a middle-of-the-road 18-21 or 21-18 build. Builds such as 12-27 and 27-12 can still be both powerful and fast in the right hands. I recommend using the "skip the fun" feature to test builds at will, since you can respec it at any time you want and with no penalty. Use tinyurl.com/crpgcalc or http://alpha-lider19.ru/MB/ (second link looks better, but has outdated stats).

Quote
4) how important is armor? is it viable to run with low armor to be hit less? is no helmet/boots viable?

It's very important. If you are melee, don't go under 40 armor if you don't mind dying in 1-2 hits. The average armor is around high 50s.

Quote
5) whats the math behind the skills? power strike is 7% more damage, athletics is how much move speed? what does one wpf give me?

You get an 8% bonus from power strike, with other bonuses from wpf and how fast you're moving into your swing. This amounts to a raw damage around 60-80. Armor then subtracts from this amount, leaving around 15-30 damage per hit against your average foe. HP is also around 60-80, so expect them to go down in 3-5 hits.

Quote
6) what do I do against heavy weapons that cannot be blocked?

A few weapons in the game have the 'crushthrough' tag, where they can deal damage through a block with an overhead. These weapons swing and turn slow, so you need to keep your distance or quickly dodge to the side and attack without hesitation. All other weapons can be blocked.

Quote
7) same as 2) but 2h spear instead of sword? Should be viable in 1v1. Am I right that spears are bad 1v1 weapons, since the stab is the only attack that does proper damage and is thus easy to block?

They are good weapons since their swings are easy to hit with and damage accumulates quickly. You are correct that they need to rely on the stab at times to deal the most damage, but those who master both swings and stabs benefit immensely.

Quote
8) are range values in cRPG just as skewed as in vanilla? With this I mean that certain weapon animations let for example a 2h sword right swing with 120 reach actually reach out further than a 2h spear stab(also 120 reach)?

Yes, swing and stab reaches can be quite different, with your example being the largest difference. There are those who desire a better polearm stab with better reach. The biggest change in crpg is that stabs deal less damage in the beginning and end than in native. Many of the weaker swings were sped up or altered as well.
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Falc on July 10, 2014, 10:18:18 pm
Thanks for the fast and useful answers :)

@panos: I guess I hit some sort of nerve? :D Tbh I have no clue what the easiest way to play this mod is, but I assumed it would either be shields (easy mode blocking) or archery (can't touch this).
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 10, 2014, 10:51:22 pm
Quote from: Falc on July 10, 2014, 10:18:18 pm
Thanks for the fast and useful answers :)

@panos: I guess I hit some sort of nerve? :D Tbh I have no clue what the easiest way to play this mod is, but I assumed it would either be shields (easy mode blocking) or archery (can't touch this).

Ultimately you should play what you find most rewarding and fun. Something that is no fun and very punishing for the enemy, ofcourse.  :twisted:
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Erebosaither on July 10, 2014, 11:20:12 pm
Quote from: Falc on July 10, 2014, 09:36:07 pm
7) same as 2) but 2h spear instead of sword? Should be viable in 1v1. Am I right that spears are bad 1v1 weapons, since the stab is the only attack that does proper damage and is thus easy to block?

As a persistent awlpiker i love that two way attack (on spear,bamboo spear exc.) And still i'm kiccking dat assses  :twisted:
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on July 10, 2014, 11:20:30 pm
Quote from: Joseph Porta on July 10, 2014, 09:53:46 pm

http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/game-mechanic-megathread!/ all the basic stuff you need to know.

This will answer pretty much all of your mechanics questions. It is a really great resource and will help you to understand the game. And knowing is half the battletm

As far as gear and build choices, 18/21 or 21/18 are good level 30 goals for your first generation. A balanced build has the fewest weaknesses, and will let try out all kinds of gear setups. I would make it a goal to get 35-50 head/body/leg armor and a longsword. It's middle-of-the-road armor and the longsword fits between slow/heavy 2H and fast/short reach lightweight 2H weapons. After you get this gear, try it out. Get a feel for what you want more of. More reach/damage? Get a greatsword. More speed? Bastard sword/katana. Buy a knockdown weapon and see if flooring an enemy is a lot of fun to you.

There is no single "best" build or best set of items. CRPG is all about customizing your character. Try a balanced build with balanced gear and then branch out once you know what you want.

If you join a clan, you will have access to their armory. There are usually plenty of heirloomed items to try out for free, as well as +0 gear that is expensive for new players to buy for themselves. You can quickly test out different gear without going bankrupt.

If you have any more specific questions feel free to ask. Many of the forum posters are glad to help new players.
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Switchtense on July 10, 2014, 11:47:56 pm
Quote from: Schumetzq on July 10, 2014, 11:20:12 pm
As a persistent awlpiker i love that two way attack (on spear,bamboo spear exc.) And still i'm kiccking dat assses  :twisted:

Pokey polearms can actually be a lot more viable than swinging polearms in certain situations.

I prefer pokey polearms too (Awlpike best pike :D) and I am doing much better with these than with swinging weapons. (Except for duels)

Basically all you gotta do is try different weapons for a few maps each and you will quickly see which suits you best :)
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: the real god emperor on July 11, 2014, 12:35:44 am
Whatever you say, Awlpike is easier than every weapon in existance, you just gotta know where to click at.
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Erebosaither on July 11, 2014, 09:32:30 am
Quote from: Kratos on July 11, 2014, 12:35:44 am
Whatever you say, Awlpike is easier than every weapon in existance, you just gotta know where to click at.

 No IT'S Not.  Don't say bad thingyss about my lovely weapon. We are in Great LUV!!  :oops: :oops:

P.S. : Awlpike is pro weapon. Try to make top score always at eu2  :wink:
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: the real god emperor on July 11, 2014, 12:37:42 pm
Quote from: Schumetzq on July 11, 2014, 09:32:30 am
No IT'S Not.  Don't say bad thingyss about my lovely weapon. We are in Great LUV!!  :oops: :oops:

P.S. : Awlpike is pro weapon. Try to make top score always at eu2  :wink:

I did several times with my level 15 polearmer.
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Erebosaither on July 11, 2014, 12:49:23 pm
then its a challenge my friend which is lead u and me in eu2 tonight awlpike race!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 11, 2014, 01:04:35 pm
Dont you have like a level 4000 build Erobo?  :lol:
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Switchtense on July 11, 2014, 01:05:45 pm
Not the place for a butthurt contest guys :D
Title: Re: A lot of newbie questions
Post by: Erebosaither on July 11, 2014, 01:40:45 pm
Quote from: Joseph Porta on July 11, 2014, 01:04:35 pm
Dont you have like a level 4000 build Erobo?  :lol:

i had to retire after that idiotic cav patch i fucked up my build now 33 :/ :(

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