cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: jack786 on July 02, 2014, 10:12:40 am

Title: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: jack786 on July 02, 2014, 10:12:40 am
Ye, ye Stop crying and stuff like this will be in comments, but just saying, why is cav with 1h/2h swords the master race class, which is able to 1hit kill full hp no matter bump and hit or simply hit.
That makes no sense at all, I remember playing with masterwork arbalest+masterwork steel bolts, some times I couldn't 1 shot kill players in monk clothes, but here they can 1 hit kill full hp medium/heavy gear.
Ok so my stats were these: STF char, 21/18 with 4 IF and all armors non loom: body armor 48/head 45, gauntlets 6, legs 16.
So then I tried changing build to 24/15 with 5IF, but still same effect, cav rides suddenly from back during melee fight and 1 hit kills full hp...

Write whatever troll comments you wish, but this is just weird.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Herezy92 on July 02, 2014, 10:15:19 am
Buff everything in game.

Gimme, Ak 47, grenades, nuke bombs PLX.

Hay nide eeet.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Thryn on July 02, 2014, 10:18:53 am
its 3 am fuck grammar

cav gets a speed bonus and the ponies in cRPG are fast as fuck
what im saying is your ass isn't using tilde key (~) to dodge cav n shit

Meh, I guess it sucks getting one hit when you're used to tanking in cRPG, but w/e
I'd be more pissed at the ranged shitstorm than ponyfunland right now

bump slash is halfway ridiculous
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Gurnisson on July 02, 2014, 10:26:30 am
They probably hit your head with massive speed bonus. How many times have you seen people survive arbalest shots to the head? Also, that speed bonus is a double-edged sword and you might as well one-shot them instead, if you hit them first.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: jack786 on July 02, 2014, 10:29:27 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on July 02, 2014, 10:26:30 am
They probably hit your head with massive speed bonus. How many times have you seen people survive arbalest shots to the head? Also, that speed bonus is a double-edged sword and you might as well one-shot them instead, if you hit them first.
ok
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Kafein on July 02, 2014, 10:31:10 am
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Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: jack786 on July 02, 2014, 10:38:42 am
Quote from: Kafein on July 02, 2014, 10:31:10 am
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Who the fock let you read this ,,koffein''
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Turk_Otto_Knight on July 02, 2014, 10:41:09 am
Just buff archer damage i cant kill  :?
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: jack786 on July 02, 2014, 10:48:11 am
How do you close a post? What came in my head when I wrote this, crpg forums is all about trolling
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Grumbs on July 02, 2014, 10:52:24 am
Difference between cav and ranged is that cav must put themselves in at least some amount of risk in order to deal damage. Ranged, especially xbowers can deal damage while in a relatively safe position, and they don't need to do jack shit player skill wise, and they don't need to sacrifise much from their general build in order to do it (no skill points, just some WPF which is optional)

Anyone can spin around and shit on a cav player. There is pretty much no situation were a cav player is as safe as most ranged are, if the cav player wants to have an impact on the round.

Main issues with cav is that bumping is a bit too gimmicky, especially when you combo it with a swing. Its 100% aboidable, but its still a bit too strong. As well as that is the huge 1 hander range both infront and behind the swing and to the side. Another thing is the shield forcefields protecting the horse, but its quite a bit better than it used to be. Shield + heavy horse was pretty ridiculous before. Very safe while just holding W and aiming at people. There is no skill in that, but at least there is some deterrent in the form of having to dedicate your build to do it

Less said about HA/HX the better. We all know how plain idiotic it is

Also its ok to not agree with people, doesnt mean they're trolling  :wink:
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Algarn on July 02, 2014, 12:06:11 pm
Quote from: anotherGhost on July 02, 2014, 10:18:53 am
bump slash is halfway ridiculous

So fucking much this. To be honest, cav "nerf" was unjustified, it destroyed a lot of builds, it should have set every heavy ponie at 6 riding, not 7. Also, this change didn't ended the one hit bullshit with or without bumpslash.

Imba Kafein/Panos/Gurnison downvote saying l2p, adapt, get better lol. Honestly, I don't care. One day, I may respec my stf to 18/18 just to prove how good you can do without any experience with cavalry, and I'll simply post those screens with the score board.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Teeth on July 02, 2014, 12:57:19 pm
Slashing cav has ridiculously high damage output compared to anything else. Combined with very lax consequences for swinging at poor angles and bumpslashing, the class probably has the best kills to skill ratio. Supposedly bumpslashing does 50% damage but I think something went wrong as I regularly get half my hp chipped in heavy armour with a bumpslash, that should at least be fixed.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Sniger on July 02, 2014, 02:08:48 pm
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Your poll is not legit. For the poll to be legit, add following option:

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You have [ 1 ] day(s) to full fill the request. Failing doing so, will result in ban from all future use of every GTR®-family terms.

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Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Kafein on July 02, 2014, 02:54:40 pm
Quote from: Algarn on July 02, 2014, 12:06:11 pm
Imba Kafein/Panos/Gurnison downvote saying l2p, adapt, get better lol. Honestly, I don't care. One day, I may respec my stf to 18/18 just to prove how good you can do without any experience with cavalry, and I'll simply post those screens with the score board.

We both know that's not going to happen.

Quote from: Teeth on July 02, 2014, 12:57:19 pm
Slashing cav has ridiculously high damage output compared to anything else. Combined with very lax consequences for swinging at poor angles and bumpslashing, the class probably has the best kills to skill ratio. Supposedly bumpslashing does 50% damage but I think something went wrong as I regularly get half my hp chipped in heavy armour with a bumpslash, that should at least be fixed.

In my opinion it's preposterous that you can get enough armor and HP to survive a fullspeed bumpslash and still have good speed and several hundred times more agility than any horse is ever going to have. Cav is by far the weakest class in 1v1, and basically useless when used as anything other than support. Yet people never seem to realize that, or use it to their advantage. At least that's what I gather from the forums.

It's worrying that people are talking about "one-hit bullshit" when it's precisely that which makes Warband combat so great and engrossing. If you can't stand the consequences of your errors come play siege naked with me and die 20 times in 5 minutes if need be. I promise fun.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Teeth on July 02, 2014, 03:36:59 pm
Using the weak abilities of cav in 1 vs 1's to your advantage is somewhat difficult with them being on a goddamn horse, isn't it? Strangely enough slashing cav doesn't do many 1 vs 1's on a battle server with 60 people. Getting one-shot by things you can't defend against is incredibly poor game design, this goes as much for bumpslashing as it goes for ranged. Slashing cav does not attack you in a 1 vs 1. They attack you while you are severely limited in your movement, ability to attack and attention, in which cases bumpslashing is often impossible to do anything against.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Kafein on July 02, 2014, 04:35:29 pm
Sometimes it's inevitable, yes. However, all classes can profit from free hits, and it doesn't require less to be freehit by cav than it does for infantry. Moreover, from the point of view of the cav, his death is almost always inevitable, when it happens. As cav you have very little control over the course of action once you are committed to something, hence the outcome depends more on the enemy than on the rider.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Thryn on July 02, 2014, 06:39:46 pm
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Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 02, 2014, 07:19:23 pm
The only thing this mod needs is its +0 weapons buffed, so that the difference isnt extremely large.

Every throwing ranged shield and horse is jack shit compared to its mw'd variant.

Nerfing the +0 version of any item is useless, the mw'd version need to get nerfed whilst the +0 version stays the same.

Or +0 buffed whilst mw stays the same, whatever youd like
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: San on July 02, 2014, 08:28:43 pm
Lots of parts of cav don't work that well that hopefully WSE would fix. If bump+attack wasn't so good (doesn't seem to receive any damage reduction at all) with tweaked penalties for 1h/2h cav and leg armor, I could see a lot of the horse stats themselves being better. IMO bump+attack damage should be reduced drastically, perhaps even more than 50%. Even with 3PS, 100wpf, and a light lance, it dealt good damage with bump stabs, and you can't get much weaker than that.

You can reach 150-200(!!!) raw damage with 2h cav pretty easily, and ~130+ raw damage with 1h cav easily as well.


Reducing speed bonus for cav decreases it for melee as well. In addition, you'll deal less damage against cav charging you. It may help in certain areas, but it'll eventually cause problems in others unless that's also what you intend since speed bonus with inf. vs inf. is pretty large.
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Thryn on July 02, 2014, 08:41:23 pm
Cavalry should be able to kill people with a full force, full speed attack. Since the game has realistic aspects to it (e.g. gravity and an attempt at physics), the force behind a charging steed and a soldier's swing combined should be able to kill an in-game player (keeping realistic wounds discussion out because this is a game).

However, meleers should be able to have effective counters against cavalry tactics. Things like polearm rearing help infantry out, but bIumpslashing really puts infantry down. There needs to be a bigger distinction between light and heavy cavalry play. Light cav should be fast, agile, and more susceptible attacks than warhorses, who are harder to turn, slower, and tankier. Bumpslashing needs to be toned down to a point where doing so won't get you an instant kill. If you play to deal damage and keep your horse alive (conservative cav play), you shouldn't be as big of a determining factor in the lives of other players as some badass motherfucker balls out always take the shot guy who risks it all to get a kill. I hope that this promotes a bigger gap in risks v. reward in the life of cavalry players. But for right now, Teeth is absolutely right in the "cavalry kills:skills" ratio.

That being said, I am going to list a few more things because it looks really douchey to just bash cav and not everything else:
(click to show/hide)

Quote from: San on July 02, 2014, 08:28:43 pm
You can reach 150-200(!!!) raw damage with 2h cav pretty easily, and ~130+ raw damage with 1h cav easily as well.

GF.

Edit: To help clarify my stance on light vs heavy cav, light cav shouldn't really be able to screw up and get away without their horse dying. I've seen quite a few coursers and hunters get hit 3-4 times and get out alive.

Also, does anyone have the number of players cav can knock over/bump in quick succession before coming to a halt?
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Gurnisson on July 03, 2014, 10:16:18 am
Oh my god, I just took a full speed bump slash to the face while not paying attention, and it was from a +3 ACS! Hope I didn't lose all my health!

(click to show/hide)

 :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Ye, ye game balance
Post by: Sniger on July 03, 2014, 11:40:53 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on July 03, 2014, 10:16:18 am
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 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: