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Off Topic => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Herezy92 on June 23, 2014, 11:38:16 am

Title: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 23, 2014, 11:38:16 am
Hello lads,

For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century in the whole world ?

Japan / China
Britain / France
Austria / Ottomans
Britain / Spain (a bit later in centuries)

Much later in the time period, i would say :
USA / USSR
-----------------------------

And you, what do you think ?
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Teeth on June 23, 2014, 03:46:09 pm
The Netherlands / Neverland

Damn wannabes
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 23, 2014, 04:25:08 pm
GOO Neverlands !

edit: I forgot Sweden / Russia
Long rivals too :p
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: bagge on June 23, 2014, 05:41:30 pm
Sweden / Denmark as well
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 24, 2014, 04:47:57 pm
Sweden / Denmark as well
Would you say more important than Sweden / Russia ?
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: bagge on June 24, 2014, 05:23:41 pm
I'd say it's equal. We've learned we can't trust either of them :wink:
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Osiris on June 24, 2014, 08:01:26 pm
UK has had a few rivalries but most important hmmm hard to say. UK vs France/Spain rivalry was arguably one of the most important in history for how it shaped the modern age.

For non country rivalries then its defiantly the battle between Islam and Christianity
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: KaleLord on June 25, 2014, 06:52:49 am


Japan / China


It was only in the late 19th century/early 20th century, Japan became powerful enough to be "rivals" with China ( China got rekt in WW2!!!)

As many would say, UK vs France/Spain imo was the most important rivalry.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 25, 2014, 09:50:40 am
It was only in the late 19th century/early 20th century, Japan became powerful enough to be "rivals" with China ( China got rekt in WW2!!!)

As many would say, UK vs France/Spain imo was the most important rivalry.
Yeah true.

So it's probably Japan /Korea
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Cicero on June 25, 2014, 11:42:15 am

Austria / Ottomans

That rivalry ended at first world war as alliance.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: F i n on June 25, 2014, 12:41:21 pm
Finland and Herezyland.

They're still fighting to determine who's the one to defend the stairs, and who's the one to tell the other one to do so.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: tizzango on June 26, 2014, 02:02:55 pm
We're into William Wallace/Edward Longshanks territory before we know it.

Skirmishes and battles never really stopped until the Battle of Culloden in 1746, the last major battle fought on British soil.

That's one hell of a history of battle and border defense. And good news fellas, they want their freedom again  :twisted:

The battle has never stopped. We sent one of our boys to Brazil to support the opposition playing England.

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Scotland fan when Uruguay scored against England


Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 26, 2014, 02:09:23 pm
Aha, good one :D
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: LordBerenger on June 27, 2014, 10:21:58 pm
UK has had a few rivalries but most important hmmm hard to say. UK vs France/Spain rivalry was arguably one of the most important in history for how it shaped the modern age.

For non country rivalries then its defiantly the battle between Islam and Christianity

Lol u just waited to throw that 1 in lulz.

Also. Germany - France,
        Japan - China
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: the real god emperor on June 27, 2014, 11:01:09 pm
Byzantines / Muslims is a huge rivalry aswell.First Byz fought Caliphates for like centuries, and then Seljuks & Ottomans for many years.Turks and Greeks fought until 1920ish years... Then the Cyprus Crisis occured, Turk-Greek relations got worse again.Our peoples still despise each other.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 28, 2014, 11:39:09 am
Lol u just waited to throw that 1 in lulz.

Also. Germany - France,
Germany - France ?
As rivalry ???
Only since 1870 to 1947.
It's quite short.

For sure it's not the longest/ most important rivalry since X century...




        Japan - China
It has been already said, and even fixed :


Japan / China

It was only in the late 19th century/early 20th century, Japan became powerful enough to be "rivals" with China ( China got rekt in WW2!!!)

As many would say, UK vs France/Spain imo was the most important rivalry.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: LordBerenger on June 28, 2014, 11:49:22 am
Germany - France ?
As rivalry ???
Only since 1870 to 1947.
It's quite short.

For sure it's not the longest/ most important rivalry since X century...



It has been already said, and even fixed :

It was only in the late 19th century/early 20th century, Japan became powerful enough to be "rivals" with China ( China got rekt in WW2!!!)

As many would say, UK vs France/Spain imo was the most important rivalry.

USA vs Rest of the world
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Franke on June 28, 2014, 01:12:07 pm
Germany - France ?
As rivalry ???
Only since 1870 to 1947.
It's quite short.

For sure it's not the longest/ most important rivalry since X century...

Berenger is right (wut?), the fact that a unified German state only existed from 1871 on does not mean there wasn't a century-long rivalry. The first climax was reached in the XVIIth century with Louis's XIV interference on the 30-years war, followed by his constant expansion eastwards annexing Alsace, Lorraine et al. plus the devastation of the Palatinate. After the War of the Spanish Succession things calmed down a bit in the course of the XVIIIth century when France and Austria (which was a "German" power back then) even allied during the Seven-Years-War, but with the outbreak of the Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars heated up again.
After Napoleon was defeated, peace ruled in Europe but there were still tensions. Many people in Germany (that was not yet unified although more and more people already felt like belonging to one common nation that just needed to be politically unified) felt threatened by France's wish to extend to its "natural borders", which would have included to possession of the left bank of the river Rhine.

In German media, the term Erbfeindschaft ("hereditary enmitiy") is often used when describing the difficult relations between France and Germany prior to 1963.

For France as a classical colonial power, who had many rivals in the struggle for overseas territories, the Franco-German rivalry might not be something special, for the Germans, however, it surely is/was.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: LordBerenger on June 28, 2014, 01:19:54 pm
Berenger is right (wut?), the fact that a unified German state only existed from 1871 on does not mean there wasn't a century-long rivalry. The first climax was reached in the XVIIth century with Louis's XIV interference on the 30-years war, followed by his constant expansion eastwards annexing Alsace, Lorraine et al. plus the devastation of the Palatinate. After the War of the Spanish Succession things calmed down a bit in the course of the XVIIIth century when France and Austria (which was a "German" power back then) even allied during the Seven-Years-War, but with the outbreak of the Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars heated up again.
After Napoleon was defeated, peace ruled in Europe but there were still tensions. Many people in Germany (that was not yet unified although more and more people already felt like belonging to one common nation that just needed to be politically unified) felt threatened by France's wish to extend to its "natural borders", which would have included to possession of the left bank of the river Rhine.

In German media, the term Erbfeindschaft ("hereditary enmitiy") is often used when describing the difficult relations between France and Germany prior to 1963.

For France as a classical colonial power, who had many rivals in the struggle for overseas territories, the Franco-German rivalry might not be something special, for the Germans, however, it surely is/was.

Germans be like...U guys had Napoleon...now you'll see Hítler. Checkmate.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on June 28, 2014, 09:29:43 pm
Berenger is right (wut?), the fact that a unified German state only existed from 1871 on does not mean there wasn't a century-long rivalry. The first climax was reached in the XVIIth century with Louis's XIV interference on the 30-years war, followed by his constant expansion eastwards annexing Alsace, Lorraine et al. plus the devastation of the Palatinate. After the War of the Spanish Succession things calmed down a bit in the course of the XVIIIth century when France and Austria (which was a "German" power back then) even allied during the Seven-Years-War, but with the outbreak of the Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars heated up again.
After Napoleon was defeated, peace ruled in Europe but there were still tensions. Many people in Germany (that was not yet unified although more and more people already felt like belonging to one common nation that just needed to be politically unified) felt threatened by France's wish to extend to its "natural borders", which would have included to possession of the left bank of the river Rhine.

In German media, the term Erbfeindschaft ("hereditary enmitiy") is often used when describing the difficult relations between France and Germany prior to 1963.

For France as a classical colonial power, who had many rivals in the struggle for overseas territories, the Franco-German rivalry might not be something special, for the Germans, however, it surely is/was.
Germany isn't Prussia, (The late Prussia can be consider as Germany, but we arrive in late time period)
As Germany isn't HRE.
Sorry :)

But Franke, i got your point. For German states, French expansion was a threat.
Yes a threat. But not a rival.

That's a bit different.
There is no real rivalry between two long & stable entities.

Like for example : France (Bourbon) & Austria (Habsburg) had also a real and long rivalry.

Or like Prussia / Austria  had as well. (for the german domination)
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Havoco on June 29, 2014, 10:37:57 pm
Here's one for panos: Sparta and Athens.

You could also probably throw in Moors and christian Iberian kingdoms
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Chosen1 on June 30, 2014, 07:21:57 am
Of the ones that haven't been said:

Carthage and Rome,

Shia nations and Sunni nations,

Ireland and England,

India and Pakistan,

Serbia and Croatia,

and as a person of Peruvian descent, Peru and Chile.  :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: ARN_ on June 30, 2014, 10:25:22 am
I would say Sweden-Denmark :twisted:, read some where that they have the most war fought between two nations, if it is so I don't know but back in the days they used to be at war with each other non-stop so it's very well possible.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 02, 2014, 02:00:23 am
The Netherlands / Neverland

Damn wannabes


Ging toch wel even stuk hierom

Mark Jutter
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Bulzur on July 12, 2014, 10:01:48 am
Well, France did have some issues with current Germany in the past, but those are irrelevant when compared to the hate we harbor to the english.
Even the 2 WW didn't change that, having to rely on english people was really tough on us, luckily, it was mainly the USA, with whom we've always been in good term that helped the most.

In all past 20th century conflicts, the first thing France looked at was the participants. If Britain is on one side, choose the other.


Though, i belive all this rivalry has come to a close now. It probably "was" the longest/most important rivalry, but is not any more.

In our current world, i'd say China vs Japan is pretty tense.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Oberyn on July 12, 2014, 12:45:46 pm

In all past 20th century conflicts, the first thing France looked at was the participants. If Britain is on one side, choose the other.


You got that exactly backwards. France never had the luxury of picking and choosing it's enemies, or any other continental euro country. The whole balance of power philosophy of the brits is what led to them opposing France constantly lest they become too powerful and dominate the continent. The exact same reason they became enemies of Germany from end of 19th to mid 20th century. Also the reason they have an almost heriditary loathing of the EU. A unified continental Europe means it isn't divided, fragmented and in constant conflict, which was their MO for centuries.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Sniger on July 14, 2014, 06:31:34 pm
Denmark / Denmark :D

(land was divided in clan territories and the clans battled eachother)

I like to think that the Scandi Vikings build and shaped (one of) the cornerstone(s) for our modern "society" (not saying its good)
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Panos_ on July 14, 2014, 06:58:58 pm
Here's one for panos: Sparta and Athens.


Greece was always split in half because of this rivalry.

Sadly people are led to believe that the Spartans were glorious, honourable and mighty warriors (thanks, Obama) but the truth is that the Athenians were always above the Spartans at everything, military, trade, culture, wealth, and that always annoyed the Spartans, made them envy the Athenians.

Apart from the glorious hold at the Hotgates, Spartans have done nothing else that actually justifies their huge reputation. They always sided with the enemy for gold and weapons, they would always cause problems at time of peace for no apparent reason.


Do yourself a favour and dont believe the crap that you read about spartans (no walls at sparta, the "If" reply to Phillip) all are lies.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Oberyn on July 15, 2014, 09:33:12 am
Spartans were raised to literally be lying, thieving, violent scumbags. As soon as they got into any sort of position of authority they would use it to backstab "allies" and enrich themselves personally. Easiest way to deal with spartan kings (they had two at a time) was to bribe one or both, until their own people got angry and replaced them with yet another easily bribable thug with no sense of loyalty to anything but his own skin. Persians frigging loved them.
The american "reimagining" of spartans as freedom loving noble warriors is blatant projection of american values on a culture that had nothing similar to their own.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on July 15, 2014, 11:10:46 am
Greece was always split in half because of this rivalry.
Split in half ???
I would say split in tons of independant cities, fighting for their own interest & power.


Sadly people are led to believe that the Spartans were glorious, honourable and mighty warriors
Hmmm, the Spartans were zealots, fanatic warriors and raised in violence.
But yes i'm sorry, they were very good in the hoplite melee fight-style.

[...]but the truth is that the Athenians were always above the Spartans at everything, military, trade, culture, wealth, and that always annoyed the Spartans, made them envy the Athenians.
Where the spartans were excellent in only one thing : Hoplite melee fight,
The Athenians developped science, culture, philosophy & many technologies.

However, the Athenians who created their fresh democracy after kicking the last "tyran", had no dedicated army. (Time of the battle of Marathon)
The "Athenians-hoplite-civilian" equiped & bought their stuff by themself. They didn't grow in a life of violence with a permanent training. (as Sparta)

When Darius, invaded Thracia, Makedon and pushed to Greece, Athens sent diplomats in order to gather independant cities. Plataea accepted fast and sent soldiers.
Sparta accepted as well but they explained that they wont come till the end of their religious event. (which means too late to save Athens' city)

Miltiades (who was leading the "greek-league") proved to other greek states that the Athenians were also great warriors in ground battlefield with the great victory at Marathon.
Around 200 greeks died for 6.000 persians.
(click to show/hide)

Sparta arrived 5 days after the victory of Marathon. And went back at home without glory.

Themistocles (who fought in Marathon as a strategoï for Athens) understood that the Persians will come back again.
He used the threat of their pirat greek neighbor to start building an important fleet. (which will save them when Xerses' fleet pushed into Greece)
At this point, Athens became a powerfull trading & naval city over Greece.


Apart from the glorious hold at the Hotgates, Spartans have done nothing else that actually justifies their huge reputation.
Yes, when Xerses surrounded the "greek-coaliltion" at the battle of the thermophiles, Sparta succesfully used this defeat as an act of sacrifice from their soldiers.

They always sided with the enemy for gold and weapons, they would always cause problems at time of peace for no apparent reason.
As i just wrote it above, it's not always the truth.
But when it was greek-wars, yes they rarely sided with Athens.
If they could make Athens weaker they would try it.

Do yourself a favour and dont believe the crap that you read about spartans (no walls at sparta, the "If" reply to Phillip) all are lies.
Yes, occidentals are still using propaganda, even if it's much more incidious, less retarded than the East, etc... But yes, we still have our own kind of propaganda, and USA is very good at it.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Oberyn on July 15, 2014, 03:11:37 pm
The split in half of the Greek world at the time is not entirely wrong, but it was mostly cultural, between Dorian and Ionian. Sparta and Athens were just the two most powerful cities of both ethnicities.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Lannistark on July 15, 2014, 03:15:16 pm
All of Western Europe watches each other closely. Past is long and conflicts common. Spain, France, UK, Germany, Italy namely have always been rivals.

UK Germany and France I'd say are close rivals, since Spain sucks nowadays and nobody gives a fuck about us. In fact, people from all those countries come over here to our beaches, fuck our women and then carry on. Spain wishes it has rivals, but nobody considers it important enough nowadays. Although it is true french fries are grumpy lately towards us with Nadal winning Roland Garros, Contador winning Tour de France, and losing practically in every sport against us...

Oh and then you have Greece, which most don't care about, but don't want to gift them money either.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Renay on July 15, 2014, 03:22:15 pm
EU cRPG Community / NA cRPG Community
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Panos_ on July 15, 2014, 03:26:28 pm
The split in half of the Greek world at the time is not entirely wrong, but it was mostly cultural, between Dorian and Ionian. Sparta and Athens were just the two most powerful cities of both ethnicities.

This^

But also everytime that Athens was in conflict with Sparta, the other City States had to pick sides, thats why I used the split in half term.


Oh and then you have Greece, which most don't care about, but don't want to gift them money either.


Dunno `bout Spain, but Greece has current beefs with Turkey, Albania and Skopja.

The Turks violate our IAS and IWA every fucking day, they send thousands of immigrants to us to create chaos, and they interfe to Thrace trying to create an independed state based upon the Pomaks. Honestly I wouldn`t be suprised if the next "Crimea" happens here in Greece, the turkish embassy in Thrace is a pain in the ass.

The Albanians accuse us that we exploit the Albanian immigrants and they threaten us to sue us in the international court, and the Skopjans go full retard with their retarded monkey propaganda.

Sadly, our current prime minister is the Yes man of Merkel, ready to bow down and complete any of her wishes.

Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Overdriven on July 15, 2014, 03:54:22 pm
Contador winning Tour de France

Sheesh no one cares about Contador the doper :P
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on July 15, 2014, 04:11:20 pm
Well, i guess Spain has some troubles with north african countries.
If i'm correct, Spain has very small lands in North Africa. Which means, those lands are in the EU, and so there is a high pressure on the border.

Like Italy has to face alone (left by EU members :( ) the massive arrivals of immigrants coming from Lybia.

But to be honest, between the western European countries, there is no more big rivalries like it was in the past.
From my country, (France) we sometimes friendly taunt the british and so they do on official medias, but that's all.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Overdriven on July 15, 2014, 04:23:33 pm
Well, i guess Spain has some troubles with north african countries.
If i'm correct, Spain has very small lands in North Africa. Which means, those lands are in the EU, and so there is a high pressure on the border.

On the Spain note. Spain and UK over Gibraltar as well. Always a sore point with that one.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Angantyr on July 15, 2014, 06:07:12 pm

Quote
From Prehistoric times, when legends tell of great battles between Danes and Swedes, through the centuries to our days of soccermatches and political crisis, the relationship between the two Nordic nations has been a very special one..few nations have engaged in so many wars against each other.

Our two kingdoms have fought over almost everything, especially over Norway, Scania, the Baltic and the North Sea. But we are like brothers fighting, we may have always had a rivalry but we still prefer each other over Southrons, and we share blood and culture and history like few other seperate nations. Soon, Copenhagen and Malmö will be one and hopefully we'll have some kind of Nordic Union instead of a disastrous EU.

Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Panos_ on July 15, 2014, 06:53:58 pm
^ Nothing beats an honourable street fight.

Real men fight with fists, god I wish I could be there and give or receive some hooks  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Herezy92 on July 15, 2014, 07:11:22 pm
^ Nothing beats an honourable street fight.

Real men fight with fists, god I wish I could be there and give or receive some hooks  :mrgreen:
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You savage southerner !
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Renay on July 15, 2014, 07:25:11 pm
I like how they still have rules during those fights and respect each other and give handshakes when a side won. Pure brutality would not be as good as this. Fighting like this is fun.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Oberyn on July 17, 2014, 10:21:49 am
This^

But also everytime that Athens was in conflict with Sparta, the other City States had to pick sides, thats why I used the split in half term.

Yeah, there was a mostly well-established network of rivalries and alliances, and city/colony identification as Dorian or Ionian was certainly a factor. There were other greek ethnic groups, but in the time period we're talking about (Greco-Persian wars through Peloponnesian War and more or less up til Macedonian accendency) those were the two leading ones, especially in terms of colonies outside of the greek peninsula.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Lannistark on July 25, 2014, 08:57:54 pm
Sheesh no one cares about Contador the doper :P

But you do know him, and you do bother to comment. Everyone knows there was no evidence for that. Even the UCI themselves admitted.

Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Oberyn on July 25, 2014, 10:40:48 pm
Evidence for doping: he won the Tour. There you go. I take it as a given these days anyone winning that thing is dopped up to the gills.
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Kan_Tervel on August 24, 2014, 09:11:53 am
Bulgaria - Byzantine
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Panos_ on August 24, 2014, 09:26:57 pm
Bulgaria - Byzantine

rofl

Bulgarians were never a real threat for the Byzantine empire.

Never forget this mean son of a bitch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_II
Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: Kan_Tervel on August 25, 2014, 11:09:25 pm
rofl

Bulgarians were never a real threat for the Byzantine empire.

Never forget this mean son of a bitch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_II
realy Panos
681 year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparukh_of_Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asparukh_of_Bulgaria)
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814 year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omurtag_of_Bulgaria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omurtag_of_Bulgaria)
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Title: Re: For you, which countries has the longest/ most important rivarly since X century
Post by: pepejul on August 25, 2014, 11:13:37 pm
OM VS PSG