cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Patoson on June 16, 2014, 06:49:26 pm

Title: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on June 16, 2014, 06:49:26 pm
My suggestion is simple, although I suppose implementing it might not be as much: reverse the generation xp bonus, so, if you are gen. 1, you will level up the fastest, and, as you retire and your generation increases, you will level up slower.

This way beginners will catch up with veterans much faster, and, with the new standard double xp, levelling up with a high gen wouldn't be so bad anyway. It will also make levelling up alts less of a pain.

I've just realised that this could bring problems, like people abandoning their high gen. characters to retire with new characters, that would level up faster and there would probably be an heirloom boom.

How about, instead, the generation xp bonus is removed and you get max xp since gen 1, so the grind will be less painful for our alts and for beginners?

Currently, levelling up a character with a low generation is a pain, compared to one with a high generation, and maybe this made sense in cRPG origins, but, today, apart from the level, gear and skill difference between veterans and new players, the latter also have to play much more to get to the same level as veterans.

I think you should level up as fast as someone with max. gen. since the beginning, and leave the generation stat as something aesthetic (to count your retirements).
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Sniger on June 16, 2014, 07:33:51 pm
dunno... saxon, how many gens, 50? :lol: i think he would cry  :lol:
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Sniger on June 16, 2014, 07:35:39 pm
id like a full global char wipe  :twisted:
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 16, 2014, 08:00:56 pm
+1 for that. because no one knows how long this mod will still exist. To give people who just startet also theyre chance.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: sF_Guardian on June 17, 2014, 11:20:17 am
Xp gain ist fast enough imo.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Athiuk on June 17, 2014, 09:20:47 pm
i m all for pato idea i have 4 of my friends i dragged in that hell and all of them just look at me strange now when i say c-rpg ... gotta accept there is a limits to how grindy a game need to be .
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Algarn on June 17, 2014, 09:42:02 pm
Seriously, people don't want to spend their fucking life on a mod of a game from 2008, plus it's grindy as fuck, so yes, increase XP for everyone should be one of the best idea there. Also, note that chadz's game is still in development, I don't see why he should let his playerbase that given money to him leaving. Plus having an unfriendly environment (both player's styles and chat in game) isn't the good thing to have for make people staying.

Oh ... Well, didn't read the original post entirely, so ... You shouldn't penalize high generation players, would be a huge fuck to them, but instead give gens 1-5 two times more XP, and give 500k or a loompoint or two to help people to get started with this shit
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Kalp on June 17, 2014, 09:49:15 pm
You can change what you want [my main is 16 so I don't care anyway], just give me free respec  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on June 17, 2014, 10:19:56 pm
My original suggestion was to reverse the xp bonus system, but then I realised it would be a problem, so I changed the suggestion to making every generations earn the same xp as max gen (get max gen xp since the beginning and let generation be just something aesthetic to count your number of retirements).
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Macropus on June 17, 2014, 11:04:43 pm
Yeah why not, although the double exp provides fast enough leveling already.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Switchtense on June 18, 2014, 02:52:07 am
Quote from: Macropus on June 17, 2014, 11:04:43 pm
Yeah why not, although the double exp provides fast enough leveling already.

Double exp favours the gen whores even more than low gen people though.

My current main is gen1 and it is a pain to level it up past 32. My highest gen is 8 and that does not feel incredibly much faster.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Varadin on June 18, 2014, 04:18:14 am
delete my lvl 36 char and i will quit this game for good :)
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Kalp on June 18, 2014, 09:20:03 am
Quote from: Waradin on June 18, 2014, 04:18:14 am
delete my lvl 36 char and i will quit this game for good :)
So you retired at 35 and still have 36 level on other char ?  Man this is sick  :shock:
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Varadin on June 18, 2014, 03:22:52 pm
Quote from: Kalp on June 18, 2014, 09:20:03 am
So you retired at 35 and still have 36 level on other char ?  Man this is sick  :shock:


Shhhh its not always as it looks like ;)
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Switchtense on June 18, 2014, 03:35:42 pm
Quote from: Waradin on June 18, 2014, 03:22:52 pm

Shhhh its not always as it looks like ;)

Isn't that what everybody always says when they are caught cheating? :D
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Lannistark on June 18, 2014, 04:29:24 pm
I think the generation ticks are precisely there to avoid high levels. Reitiring when you are Gen 10 becomes easy as fuck, as opposed to Gen 1. If you then go for level 33, well at least, you retired 10 times before.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on June 18, 2014, 05:16:23 pm
But why not let people continue to high levels without heirlooming anything? There are or have been people who have reached high levels without ever retiring. Why should grinding through a long and tedious process, that can generally last a year at least, be a requirement for those people?

My point is, in my opinion, this system makes more sense in a MMO than in a Warband mod, which, in essence, is more about playing the game (fighting) rather than accumulating stats or items - people can play more or less without the need of looms, although they help. And it doesn't make much sense anymore, now that we constantly get new players and some might give up seeing that getting to equal footing with the rest of the players is very far away from now.

When the mod started and most of us did, we progressed more or less at the same pace and people weren't left behind as much as now, I think.

I started this thread because levelling up an alt of mine takes a whole lot more time than my main, which has the max. gen. bonus, and it's the same for beginners.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on June 28, 2014, 11:10:27 am
Bump.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Breidr on June 29, 2014, 04:52:09 am
I can not bump this hard enough.  It's been two years of, what I would consider casual playing compared to what I see most of this community do, and I'm what, Gen 3, and a lot of that came from double EXP before the strat reset.

I like this game more than Native because of the equipment system and lack of default factions, but for some reason, I'm also starting to hate it at the same time.  Everyone else has got some sort of loom/banner stack think going on, and I'll I've got to show for my work are some reinforced mittens.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Miwiw on June 29, 2014, 11:48:11 pm
Or simply lower xp requirements by 20% and keep gen bonus. That way its a win/win solution and spending time still pays off.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on July 12, 2014, 05:11:01 pm
Bump.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 05:23:12 pm
All for it, id even go as far as to reduce the total xp needed by 50% for lvl 33, and after that the current xp req.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Dark_Blade on July 12, 2014, 09:55:16 pm
I really dislike this idea because of next reasons:
1. because its unfair to the people who was getting 16 gen just for xp bonus... and after some time people shouldnt do it too. no, wtf! if he wants to get same bonus as i have - he has to work on it as much as i did!
2. because choise between retirement and lvling will be easier and many people will give up loomz grinding and will level up. no. thats shouldnt be so. 30-31 lvl MUST be the middle lvl and HIGH lvls must be HIGH 32+.

the only thing i can suggest is sharing the xp bonus from gen for all chars on the account
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Angantyr on July 12, 2014, 10:00:26 pm
Quote from: Dark_Blade on July 12, 2014, 09:55:16 pm
the only thing i can suggest is sharing the xp bonus from gen for all chars on the account
This.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on July 13, 2014, 11:12:04 am
That's like saying women should keep having less rights than men because it has always been like that. Swallow your ego and think on the newbies!
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:38:41 pm
Quote from: Patoson on July 13, 2014, 11:12:04 am
That's like saying women should keep having less rights than men because it has always been like that. Swallow your ego and think on the newbies!

Haha yes  :lol: so true

Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Dark_Blade on July 13, 2014, 12:48:22 pm
Quote from: Patoson on July 13, 2014, 11:12:04 am
That's like saying women should keep having less rights than men because it has always been like that. Swallow your ego and think on the newbies!
(click to show/hide)
its not about my ego at any. just why should i think about newbies? will they think about me? no. so what a point? just make the game easier for them and then will be income of players? bullshit. the income wont be high but the game will became broken(reason #2 in my previous post).
just the lazy bastards who wasnt retiring much gonna get as much xp as i do... the difference is i had to suffer on strat battles 1-2 years ago with 30-31 lvl for this xp bonus but they'll get it for free. complite bullshit.
its not like i do care about my ego, just as i said - why should i care about people who dont give a fuck about me? it doesnt means i am going to despise such people but the last thing i will think about is making their life easier.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:50:24 pm
You should think about the future of this mod bro :P not the individual newbie
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Dark_Blade on July 13, 2014, 12:55:57 pm
as i said - there wont be big income of people. so as result it will mostly affect on the people who are currently playing.  i dont want to let some dude with 34-35 lvl but with gen 1 to get 36 lvl faster than he supposed to get.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:42:55 pm
Since the

At fifteen, I had the will to learn; at thirty, I could stand; at forty, I had no doubts; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding; at sixty, my ears were opened; at seventy, I could do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the square.

anyways - as you state - I think its OK for such a change.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Xiou on July 13, 2014, 02:06:27 pm
How about: if you are gen 10 (example number) or below, you can retire at lvl 30 to help stack the gens towards the start? Clearly this would not work on alts or abuse would happen. But yeah, let the newbies get some looms and gens quick without affecting the veterans too much.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Rico on July 13, 2014, 06:41:06 pm
Quote from: Patoson on July 13, 2014, 11:12:04 am
That's like saying women should keep having less rights than men because it has always been like that. Swallow your ego and think on the newbies!

You are using a straw man argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument) instead of actually discussing against Dark Blade's argument. Women's rights have nothing to do with this, because whether you are born as a female or a male is determined by chance. Grinding from generation 1 to 16 does not happen by chance; you could argue that the special status of higher exp gain for high gen players is something they earned.

I agree that this game should be more beginner-friendly, but demagogue feminist slogans won't support this point of view.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Trikipum on July 13, 2014, 07:16:13 pm
Half the max xp bonus and give it to everyone but people joining in the last year, those should keep the full normal bonus, no matter their gens. Make characters from people joining in this year start at level 20 when retiring. Provide the  first character of a new account with 3 sets of standar gear. Also a bunch of of weapons of his class of choice, completely random. Let them decide if they want to keep them or sell. Also provide them with some money and no upkeep for 2 generations. Also give  them  a random horse and a donkey.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on July 13, 2014, 08:14:39 pm
Quote from: Panuru on July 13, 2014, 06:41:06 pm
You are using a straw man argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man_argument) instead of actually discussing against Dark Blade's argument. Women's rights have nothing to do with this, because whether you are born as a female or a male is determined by chance. Grinding from generation 1 to 16 does not happen by chance; you could argue that the special status of higher exp gain for high gen players is something they earned.

I agree that this game should be more beginner-friendly, but demagogue feminist slogans won't support this point of view.

If I understood correctly, his point was that, since he and most of us spent our time and effort to grind all the generations, beginners should do the same.

My point is, given the huge gap between veterans and beginners, not only in terms of personal skills, we could help them by making them level up as fast as someone with max generation bonus, so their grind might be shortened and can compete earlier instead of after years (which in my opinion was a bit too much; too much like a MMO).

As I understood, he was saying that newbies shouldn't have it easier than us. That's why I used that simile.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 13, 2014, 08:20:01 pm
The main things that deterred me from playing cRPG earlier were:

1. Upkeep as a poor newbie trying to get gear on my own
2. Large stat/skill point gaps
3. Heavy cav roflstomping (though this was 2-3 years ago, nowadays HA is more of an issue)

Upkeep's a bit tricky since giving a grace period would let trolls that have lots of cdkeys plated charger + steel shield spam through armory items.

I'd be more of a fan of having characters retire to/start from level 20(or some higher level), and moving the exp requirement forward than mucking with gen exp mechanics/retirement requirements, since it'd encourage players to retire more often in general while reducing the "holy crap I'm useless" stage of the game.

Going from this:
(click to show/hide)

To this:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Breidr on July 13, 2014, 08:46:29 pm
I'd like to see the EXP system redone entirely.  The Multiplier system focuses too much on the outcome of the team, and in public servers, it's downright painful.  I feel as though I have little to no control over my multi, unless I banner stack that is, which is a whole other can of worms.

I currently spend most of my time on STF characters because if this, borrowing looms from my clan where needed.  Respecs are free and I don' have to endure the uselessness each retirement.

Progression was a nice addition that this mod has, but it's more grindy than some MMOs I've played.  It's just too much crap to enjoy currently.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Rico on July 13, 2014, 09:05:21 pm
I can explain the straw man fallacy using a modified simile from Dark Blades point of view. As a thought experiment, please imagine that everyone is born as a woman, but a change of genders is possible:
"I used to be a woman with less rights. I worked hard and became a man with more rights. Everyone starts off with little rights, but has the chance to increase them. The current system has transparent and fair rules."

Your simile targets Dark Blade's argument as if he said something different:
"There are women with less rights, and men with more rights. It is a fixed system, and a transition from less rights to more rights is impossible. Unfair, but I like it like this, because I am a man."

This is why your comparison is a straw man argument, and does not tackle the issue at hand.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Garner on July 14, 2014, 01:18:40 am
Quote from: Breidr on June 29, 2014, 04:52:09 am
I can not bump this hard enough.  It's been two years of, what I would consider casual playing compared to what I see most of this community do, and I'm what, Gen 3, and a lot of that came from double EXP before the strat reset.

I like this game more than Native because of the equipment system and lack of default factions, but for some reason, I'm also starting to hate it at the same time.  Everyone else has got some sort of loom/banner stack think going on, and I'll I've got to show for my work are some reinforced mittens.
Dude you are only gen 3 after 2 years?
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Dark_Blade on July 14, 2014, 03:09:56 pm
that unfair thing to the ones who had to earn this xp advantage is my subjective point and also its not the most importent one.
the main thing i was going to explain is unfair rebalance of your actions priority for 30-31 lvl.
some people was retiring exactly for  a bonus. nowdays its easy to get masterworks. from armory at least, so loompoints became much less important imo.

so dude who got lvl 31 had a choise - "keep leveling but without xp bonus its gonna take a shitload of time but i dont care, this game is for fun so yolo. maybe I'll stuck at 33 but its better than perma fresh start" or "damn this... got bored of being a free frag... but my work will be rewarded at some day. 1450 is kinda much more than 1000... and i'll get some loomz for it too!" or " damn i got bored of being a free frag... at least my full mw is making my life easier... damn with the last update they added many awesome armors! i want them! but its so quacked up to use unlommed stuff when you have masterwork... so i gonna loom the new stuff too!"

by this idea the priority will be complitelly broken because the variant #1 is going to be the best for all players who are playing for fun. variant #2 just doesnt exist anymore. variant #3 does exist only for some nolifers who may spend all the time to make everything on mw... i know who am i talking about ^^

as result:
thats doesnt matter for me if player is new to this game. let his life be easy, okay. i guess its currently very hard to start playing because everyone are fighting not bad, have a good equip and lvls and all this stuff BUT at least 1\3 of new players are not new to this game.
so i dont want some native pro who just playing for few days to have an advantage over the players who spent much time for crpg. yes, its  a skill based game but look, this native pro wont retire if make this higher xp gain? why? because he just came to rape some noobs and thats it. he will lvl up as fast as people who was playing this for years and he will rape the people even harder then he supposed to as for his short time of playing.
same to some other crpg players. their reason to play is just beating noobs. he dont give a fuck about any crpg features but he will get higher lvl and his goal gonna be even easier to reach than it should be.

maybe there are some kind of my personal offence to the players who are playing better than i do but i really hate when people are using native feints(cuz they are not too effective but annoiyng as hell) or  just comming to kill noobs without any interest to gain something(its MMORPG ffs D:). so as result this game will become even less friendly for the new players.   
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Trikipum on July 14, 2014, 04:34:11 pm
Quote from: Huscarlton_Banks on July 13, 2014, 08:20:01 pm
The main things that deterred me from playing cRPG earlier were:

1. Upkeep as a poor newbie trying to get gear on my own
2. Large stat/skill point gaps
3. Heavy cav roflstomping (though this was 2-3 years ago, nowadays HA is more of an issue)

Upkeep's a bit tricky since giving a grace period would let trolls that have lots of cdkeys plated charger + steel shield spam through armory items.

I'd be more of a fan of having characters retire to/start from level 20(or some higher level), and moving the exp requirement forward than mucking with gen exp mechanics/retirement requirements, since it'd encourage players to retire more often in general while reducing the "holy crap I'm useless" stage of the game.

Going from this:
(click to show/hide)

To this:
(click to show/hide)
That shouldnt be a problem. Multi account isnt allowed and will get you banned.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Rico on July 14, 2014, 08:37:42 pm
Quote from: Trikipum on July 14, 2014, 04:34:11 pm
That shouldnt be a problem. Multi account isnt allowed and will get you banned from Strategus only
ftfy according to my last information
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Tydeus on July 15, 2014, 06:53:18 pm
Quote from: Trikipum on July 14, 2014, 04:34:11 pm
That shouldnt be a problem. Multi account isnt allowed and will get you banned.
For strat, yes.
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Patoson on July 18, 2014, 11:40:35 am
Bump, and down with the copycat threads!
Title: Re: Higher xp gain (same for everyone)
Post by: Admerius on July 22, 2014, 09:06:43 am
That long grind those no lifers dedicated honourable paragons of humanity that are lvl 35 and 36 has gone through must be compensated if a general xp rate boost is given.

Should their main char get for example: 100k bonus xp/month since it was created?

I dunno if this only should apply to all chars or only main if lvl 33+ or sumthing like that.
and
100000 might be to small a buff it's "only" 3,6 million for someone that has a main since July 2011