cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Fips on June 02, 2014, 05:29:01 pm
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Please vote.
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Any decided method to fix the multi system though ?
I tried conquest, liked it very much tbh just need a proper rewarding system.
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plS get rid of them now
I just wasted hour trying to take EASTERN WALLS and its shit. There is now fun in it. Pls take it right away
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BUMP
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Double XP is the real solution for conquest.....
Summer Event..3 Months of double xp on conquest
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I liked it when conquest was on NA and I had a x5 and I could just cruise baby, just cruise.
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Only 3 people against this mode entirely, me gusta. I'll update the cycle today, just needs a server restart to get rid of them until multi. Although if i ever happen to make a map of like 10 minutes or so, expect them to get in. But that would need me to be not lazy, so nevermind i guess :o
Also damn you multiwhores, i liked having that tdm feel :(
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Conquest is fun even with x1, but 2 hours of one map was too much.
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Only 3 people against this mode entirely, me gusta. I'll update the cycle today, just needs a server restart to get rid of them until multi. Although if i ever happen to make a map of like 10 minutes or so, expect them to get in. But that would need me to be not lazy, so nevermind i guess :o
Also damn you multiwhores, i liked having that tdm feel :(
Fips what about increase the respawn time of the defenders??Lets say 10-15 secs?
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I think spawn time is not a problem unless attacking team don't cooperate.
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Out of rotation until multy (and some spawn points) are fixed.
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I think spawn time is not a problem unless attacking team don't cooperate.
Well last time I played it I had to kill the same guys twice while going for the flag. It increases the difficulty quite a bit :rolleyes: Contested flags should not be spawnable for the defenders.
Also the maps we currently have are a bit boring. I'd love to see more open maps as they work really well with this type of flag system. Don't get me wrong, these maps look great and they are far better than any regular siege map, but with this flag system you could be more creative.
Anyways to the actual topic, take them off until the multi is fixed.
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just needs a server restart to get rid of them until multi.
when :?: :rolleyes:
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when :?: :rolleyes:
Next patch/hotfix. It about the only time they ever get restarted. :?
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It isn't only 3 people Fips. I assure you of that. For the last few days, it has been making me GTX frequently. The problem is not only about the maps, but about the mode itself. War of the Roses had this mode too and it sucked every little bit just like this one. But instead of blabbering, let me list the facts:
1. Map designs most often do not allow the attackers to have any sense of control. Maps are basically a set of small siege maps, which are way easy to control for defenders.
2. Spawn timers are too short for defenders. I whack some defending guy and about like 30 steps later, the same guy is there waiting for me with a troll face. Not to mention some of the most annoying my old friendchers who can comfortably lurk somewhere safe and shoot on. They don't have to wait a lot after they die after all.
3. Forced attacking order quite royally screws attackers as well. Maybe if attackers were allowed to go for any flag they desired, this would make better sense. One could even consider an attacker number cap for any random flag to be captured (like at least a group of 5 attackers have to be present to capture a random flag). In that case, defenders should be allowed to recapture any lost flags too of course.
4. You think people generally enjoy it, but tell it to the tens of GTXing players today. Don't remember which map it was (the one with a siege tower in front of it). Today we defended that and successfully held the damn outer walls (the first check point) for the entire 30 minutes. And naturally, people dropped out one by one until we ended up playing like 7 against 7.
5. Map design itself won't save this mode alone. As I said above, this mode requires a lot of fixing, balancing and redesign itself. I have no single clue as to how that balance can be established, yet I know that conquest doesn't work as a mode for the time being.
These basically.
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The maps seem to linear atm, like the one where you fight for "eastern walls" and there are like 2-3 entrances and the defenders spawn on the flag every 15 seconds while you need ~20 seconds to get there as attacker. You just don't have a chance.
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It isn't only 3 people Fips. I assure you of that.
Well, i think there are alot of people who are enjoying the mode but quiting because they dont want to have x1 for atleast 30 minutes. Shorter rounds would help alot to get the mod more popular in my opinion.
2. Spawn timers are too short for defenders. I whack some defending guy and about like 30 steps later, the same guy is there waiting for me with a troll face. Not to mention some of the most annoying my old friendchers who can comfortably lurk somewhere safe and shoot on. They don't have to wait a lot after they die after all.
The spawntimer is way to low, when conquest was intruduced first on the servers it was even then hard (with the old spawntimer) to capture all flags as attacker in time. Because of the low spawntimer the conquest-maps are basically killing low-population siege.
3. Forced attacking order quite royally screws attackers as well. Maybe if attackers were allowed to go for any flag they desired, this would make better sense. One could even consider an attacker number cap for any random flag to be capture (like at least a group of 5 attackers have to be present to capture a random flag). In that case, defenders should be allowed to recapture any lost flags too.
Can only agree on that, several points on one level (or whatever you want to call it) shouldn´t have advantages over another flags, on the most current maps there are points which you need to take first before taking the other flags. If you dont do so attackers are screwed since some points are untakeable if there are all defenders spawing there, specially with the low spawn-timer. Im sceptical about defenders being able to retake the flags, it would only make rounds longer and change the gamemode to a "Conquest" á la CoD or Battlefield which would take the gamemode the flavour of siege ;)
5. Map design itself won't save this mode alone. As I said above, this mode requires a lot of fixing, balancing and redesign itself. I have no single clue as to how that balance can be established, yet I know that conquest doesn't work as a mode for the time being.
I dont think that the mode in current state is play-able but that is mostly because of the low spawntimers (hell, i just killed a enemy at the flag and a few secs. later he is already standing right infront of me) and bad/not so good map design. Another way to implement XP-gain is also needed but it seems they are working already on it.
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About the spawntimer. I too think it's too low, but not much. From what i have seen there are mainly some spawnpoint problems for certain flags. I've seen all castles get captured and the fact that those maps were played for the full 2:3 or 3:2 kinda indicates that the balance isn't that bad (Not saying it's good, because it's not). You guys seem to forget that defense doesn't spawn at all once you got the flag set to neutral. As short as the timer may seem, holding the flag for a few seconds so noone spawns there anymore balances this out. Not to mention there are different approaches you can balance those maps.
For example, i made helms deep with the 20 seconds def spawn timer in mind so i set the spawnpoints of the flags where i think the average way for attackers to reach one flag from another is about or a little above those 20 seconds. Meaning def spawns are close to the flags themselves. But teeth, who made Isle of Cray (The one where the barracks are completely broken if not taken first^^), let defense spawn without penalty, meaning they spawn after 3 seconds, but set the spawns so that the time for both teams to reach the flags is about the same. Makes for a little more walking but less waiting time for def to spawn, but in the end from what i've seen it kind of was balanced.
I think teeths approach is the best because everyone gets to play almost 100% of the time, but it makes for a WHOLE different set of balance when it comes to spawnpoints.
Basically what i'm trying to say here, is, that battle maps are easy concerning balance, siege maps are hard and conquest maps are a pain in the ass to balance out. So it comes down to testing it live on the server. Hate me all you want for pulling you through this horrendous struggle of x1 for 30 minutes or more, but concering the 4 conquest maps that were played, that's a good thing, simply because they will be a lot better once they come back.
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48players on EU2, conquest map Helms Deep loads, after 5minutes we are 25players left.
*irony* I THINK KEEPING CONQUEST IS A GOOD FUCKING IDEA. *irony*
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The ladders on the frontwall doesnt work , they are too short. You dont even reach the wall
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I think people are forgetting that those siege ladders and construction site and materials they bought years ago when they could use them in battle are usable in conquest now. You have 30 minutes. It takes ~6 minutes for a single person to construct a weapon rack then a catapult. That's 24 minutes of raining death from above! :twisted:
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My god i just played Helms deep omfg what a terrible map when attackers have to take "tower" lol its a joke. I have 8 ath and i met DRZ_Parachute 3 times on my way to the flag not mentioning i run first about 20 secs to reach combat zone from closer spawn. FIPS its a bad unbalanced mode that infuriates me when im forced to play it for more than an hour.
Not mentioning how easly one can abuse this mode. Cos when you put Construction Yard on the only way leading to tower then time attackers will have to take to destroy it its enought to whole defender team to spawn back die and spawn again
There is nothing more annoying that fighting 2 vs 4 guys killing 3 of them and when you want to finish last one, three guys you just killed come back and the fight even didnt last long. I feel useless no matter how many players defending flag i kill
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My god i just played Helms deep omfg what a terrible map when attackers have to take "tower" lol its a joke. I have 8 ath and i met DRZ_Parachute 3 times on my way to the flag not mentioning i run first about 20 secs to reach combat zone from closer spawn. FIPS its a bad unbalanced mode that infuriates me when im forced to play it for more than an hour.
Not mentioning how easly one can abuse this mode. Cos when you put Construction Yard on the only way leading to tower then time attackers will have to take to destroy it its enought to whole defender team to spawn back die and spawn again
There is nothing more annoying that fighting 2 vs 4 guys killing 3 of them and when you want to finish last one three guys you just killed come back and it didint even last long. You seems useless
There are 3 ways to go to the tower.
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There are 3 ways to go to the tower.
But only one last less than 10 hours
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for conquest there need to be a few changes, these changes dont have to be big but some minor map changes can fix alot of the balance issues. But to really fix the unrewarding aspect of the game mode would need a big change to the multi system but this will not happen soon I reckon.
So just some minor map changes I will suggest.
Starting off with the map with the single siege tower, is it echoing in here? The eastern wall is a mess. The area around the interactive ladder is a kill zone, I dubbed it The Meatgrinder, and you know wy. With the low wall practicly surrounding the one way up its a deathtrap. Now this is OK and understandable IF it wasn't fucking unbalanced.
But wait, if you go left after the second tower coming from the gate you have the option to go left up the ladder to find yourself an addition two ways up to the flag area - BUT NO ONE FUCKING USES IT! THEY JUST MASS SUICIDE UP THE STAIRS! now this is just natural behaviour of the siege player. So instead of pressuring them from all sides, forcing them to spread their forces thin and allowing for a breakthrough we should change the map to fit the average tactical insight of the majority of siege players.
These are the changes I suggest:
- make the platform next to the afore mentioned killing ground accdsible from the killing ground so the average siege player will séé the second ramp, if they cant séé it it doesnt exist. This is a simple change that will make the flag a lil easier to cap. The third small ladder should be removed - otherwise it will be too easy to swarm.
- I also think another ladder shojld be added at the lower wall. Placed to the left of the current ladder - after the tower. This ladder allows for a more accesible lower wall - this one can also take frustratingly long. The ladder will be fairly far from the spawn so it wont be extremely easy accesible.
- thirdly the "citadel needs to get additionobjects that will funnel attacking players into defensive position - this will cause a more directed fight, instead of the retarded open ground slaughter fest it is now - what besieged commander would defend his last bastion like that. It doesnt even feel like the last fight was for the victory. I think thr courtyard could get a buff from a defensive point of view, whilst the eastern walls need the heavy nerf of an additional easy accesible entry point.
Im too lazy atm to also type a WoT for the other map, maybe latrr tonight.
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Get to work Faps
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Jeez, bug cmp on irc to restart the servers, maps are removed, getting the update ingame is beyond my powers.
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Your are the holy martyr that has died for our sins and come back to life from the dead. You are the
lamb donkey of god Fips. Let us rain our sins down on you relevantly or irrelevantly. Without your blamable presence, this community would fall apart.
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Not sure if i should feel honored or insulted.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Not sure if i should feel honored or insulted.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Probably neither. lol. If I was the face of scene management, they'd say the same things of me. =P It comes with the job description. In the super fine print under the clause where your soul belongs to chadz. :wink:
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Well, although I am somewhat mad about the conquest business, I am never serious about blaming Fips for stuff, which I do repeatedly :mrgreen: Regardless of what anybody might say, he has been doing quite a great job. And you too Thranduil.
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Dont give up on conquest faps dont do it!
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Yes, don't give up with it and luckily soon you will have a whole server all for yourself to play in it! COOL BROZ11!!
No really..if people who say it is nice was the people who plays normally it would have all another sense this poll.THE SERVER IS FUCKING DIEING,EVERYDAY PEOPLE QUIT TO PLAY THIS GAME FOREVER..eu1 is a fucking shit, people who were always on eu2 were there for a reason,because that was the only place where to enjoy this VERY old game. This game suffer already from a continue, slow, lost of players due to new games, but what happened in the last 3 weeks is clamorous: more than 50% of the people in eu2 have quit. How can you close your eyes and still think it may be a modality with potential???? It COULD be, but then it only became the way for accellerate the end of Crpg/M&B. Congratulation, you have really did something of relevant!
You are forcing me to quit forever this game that i love and that is the only videogame that i play and that i enjoy since 4 years, and i bet i'm not the only old player that is seriously thining to stop forever with this. I can't have fun anymore with this server half empty that become full empty when a conquest map arrive, and Eu1 during daytime is only a ganking festival incredibly boring. We are arrived at the point that even with a normal siege map you can't hope to find more than 30 persons at 15 pm...not at 4 am!
DO YOU WANT TO KEEP WATCHING THE DESTRUCTION OF THIS GAME, MAKING POLLS AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IF PEOPLE WHO NEVER PLAYS INGAME DO LIKE CONQUEST, OR DO YOU WANT TO SOLVE A SITUATION THAT IS ALWAYS WORSE?
Remove immediatly conquest from the rotation and THEN do all the polls you want. When you will know what to do with that modality, so you will do it. In the while this indecision is killing the mod, accept this fact and stop, please.
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We finally reached 30players on EU2, and bam conquest.
20players......
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Moar QQ plz.
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Sure,here you go:
Conquest sux,remove or fix multi.NAOW
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Sure,here you go:
Conquest sux,remove or fix multi.NAOW
You can do better :O
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Last time I played Conquest I had multi...atm I cant do better
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We finally reached 30players on EU2, and bam conquest.
20players......
Stahp polluting this forum, isnt there a merc forum or something you can spray your QQ
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Stahp polluting this forum, isnt there a merc forum or something you can spray your QQ
Someone just asked us to QQ...
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Super QQ incoming Fips! :mrgreen: (5 posts were made since I started typing this!)
Somehow, SOMEHOW, we kept an 8v8 last night on NA2 (which in itself is amazing cause most NA just grinds on battle) but what's even more amazing is, we played on ONE siege map (which was way too easy for attackers so I'm gonna remove one of the ladders and see what happens.... back on topic) and then TWO CONQUEST MAPS! YES, we played 2 conquest maps, 3 rounds each. Defenders won the first map each round (first and seconds rounds were damn close though) and then the second map, attackers won each round (last round was damn close, and when I've been saying damn close, I mean we had overtime). Now, I was lucky enough to be winning this whole time, so the second conquest map gave me almost 1.5 hours of x5! Needless to say, I leveled from 27 to 30 during these two conquest maps!
Now, how I forced myself to stay THAT FRIGGIN LONG? Cool peeps, and the fact that I spent almost half of that time running in peasant gear with stick to keep the serious down may have helped. I dunno. 30 minutes is a long time to spend on any map I think. Even strat battles don't last more than an hour I think. I wouldn't want the timer any lower with some of these conquest maps, but playing the same map for 1.5 hours straight...... well, let's just say the second round of the first conquest map, defenders almost lost because we didn't care. It was awesome fun the first 30 minutes, but multiple rounds on these maps gets cumbersome and tiring. Our motivation as attackers on the 2nd map (after the first round) was to end it as fast as we could....which wasn't that fast because of good defenders. :rolleyes:
Overall, the two conquest maps I played last night (didn't check the names, but I'd know them if I saw any screenshot) were, for the most part, enjoyable and kinda balanced for our small numbers, albeit, long. Very long. Too long. And we were lucky because either defense always won (barely) or attacker always won (again, barely). The barely part is good, but after 3 rounds on each map, I was sick of that map. Not because I had to find enemies, oh no, they found me. :D Not because of the constant running or dying, cause dat spawn time - wow.... like 3 seconds! May want to modify that a teensie bit. It was simply because I was sick of playing the same map that long. Good maps, but even good maps get tiring to look at and play on for what some people consider a day's worth of playing cRPG. If one team had not won each round, we'd have been there even longer (and if that had happened, I guarantee you, most, if not all, of the small NA2 population would have left. Not from losing a high multi over a good 30 minutes (some of us were playing this whole time with a x2 or less), but because it would mean the same map for at least another 30 minutes.
tl;dr
Conquest was fun last night. We had a good population for NA2. Fix multi. Fix spawn times. Make it first to 2 wins or just have 2 rounds per conquest map, period. Hell, maybe even 1. :D
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Hmm yes, i like that.. Less rounds +1.
Btw, thranduil, can you edit the maps?
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Everyone could,the question is if they would be accepted.
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Moar QQ plz.
Well..honestly this wasn't the answer i was hoping for. If you are really sure you are doing good for this game, so keep on your road..but it will be a real pain when it will end against a wall...
If you really don't care about the players who populate the server (even if i thought THIS was one of the main duty of an admin), at least care about your own poll: Get rid of them until multi is fixed
P.S: is fun that most of the persons who write here appreciament for this modality are NEVER online when conquest is on..if you want really to know something from the REAL players, come ingame on any afternoon and you will read about some real thoughts with your own eyes. Most of people who plays ingame don't lose time writing here..i'm doing this only because i'm forced since, thanks to decisions made by other persons, i can't get any kind of amusement ingame now...otherwise i would be there too!
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Hmm yes, i like that.. Less rounds +1.
Btw, thranduil, can you edit the maps?
If they were my own, or if I had permission, yes. Technically I could anyway, but that's disrespectful to the original map maker should they be available and compliant to edit it. In the case that they are not, then yeah, typically anyone could edit it. Usually one of the scene managers will I think, but yeah, Namakan is right. The changes would be reviewed (usually) and have to be accepted, but in most cases they would be because you have to test the changes to see if they will work, and that usually means live guinea pigs players testing and giving their opinions.
Well..honestly this wasn't the answer i was hoping for. If you are really sure you are doing good for this game, so keep on your road..but it will be a real pain when it will end against a wall...
If you really don't care about the players who populate the server (even if i thought THIS was one of the main duty of an admin), at least care about your own poll: Get rid of them until multi is fixed
P.S: is fun that most of the persons who write here appreciament for this modality are NEVER online when conquest is on..if you want really to know something from the REAL players, come ingame on any afternoon and you will read about some real thoughts with your own eyes. Most of people who plays ingame don't lose time writing here..i'm doing this only because i'm forced since, thanks to decisions made by other persons, i can't get any kind of amusement ingame now...otherwise i would be there too!
Fips can do whatever he or the community wants to the rotation, but the changes won't go into effect until the servers are restarted, so all he can do is ask for a server restart, but he can't force the devs to restart the servers. Typically servers won't restart until a patch or hotfix is implemented. Just how it goes I'm afraid.
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Well..honestly this wasn't the answer i was hoping for. If you are really sure you are doing good for this game, so keep on your road..but it will be a real pain when it will end against a wall...
If you really don't care about the players who populate the server (even if i thought THIS was one of the main duty of an admin), at least care about your own poll: Get rid of them until multi is fixed
P.S: is fun that most of the persons who write here appreciament for this modality are NEVER online when conquest is on..if you want really to know something from the REAL players, come ingame on any afternoon and you will read about some real thoughts with your own eyes. Most of people who plays ingame don't lose time writing here..i'm doing this only because i'm forced since, thanks to decisions made by other persons, i can't get any kind of amusement ingame now...otherwise i would be there too!
Just read the whole thread before you complain about an issue that has already been stated to be dealt with, at least on my part.
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I had read the whole thread,but i totally missed this part.
Well, so i'm very sorry if i attacked you...it's only i couldn't understand why they weren't removed from the rotation until everything was fixed or until we could make a serious test with at least 50 players on (not with 15 players who run around the map withot finding each other).
I really hope devs will do something soon..yesterday there was a whole day without conquest and the server arrived again to more than 50 players aroun 22.
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So Brucia was with us since beggining of CRPG and he made 19 post overall and 2 in this topic. Conquest can make people really mad
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I had read the whole thread,but i totally missed this part.
Well, so i'm very sorry if i attacked you...it's only i couldn't understand why they weren't removed from the rotation until everything was fixed or until we could make a serious test with at least 50 players on (not with 15 players who run around the map withot finding each other).
I really hope devs will do something soon..yesterday there was a whole day without conquest and the server arrived again to more than 50 players aroun 22.
Flags were bugged and urist fixed them. The fix seemed very random, so i decided to have them tested live for at least a week to make sure they are.
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Flags were bugged and urist fixed them. The fix seemed very random, so i decided to have them tested live for at least a week to make sure they are.
Is there any chance to get a double XP on Conquest so we can test it with a lot people??
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Is there any chance to get a double XP on Conquest so we can test it with a lot people??
Nah, they are removed and won't come back until multi implementation.
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Oh no had to apologise to Fips for uninformed ranting. Time to go bang head against wall.
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The only thing that can save your Conquest from not beeing hated is another XP-System, whenever a Conquest map is up - some ppl are happy cause they have the chance to play with it with x5 for some time, but once the defenders lost, the server will get quite empty.Shouldnt a conquest map just be one round and not like siege up to maximum of 5? (That could also be helpful)
From 50 to 20.
Depending on the Map the defenders have hard times anyway - cause as Attacker you can spawn anywhere and are sometimes even faster than the defenders.
And when all defenders quit in one round, its no fun for attackers too, and they also quit.
The one map i played was neat - Field of Clay or something like that, really nice, except the weird looking floor/gate inbreed.
But for PPL to have fun on Conquest there need to be up to 60Players - and its shrinking.
I´d say, get a fair XP-System or get it out for now.