cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Angantyr on June 01, 2014, 04:05:24 pm

Title: Lawlpike
Post by: Angantyr on June 01, 2014, 04:05:24 pm
Still deserving of its old derogatory name. One of the few overpowered weapons left.

The ahlspiess had a weakness historically; it was very heavy. Perhaps a speed decrease would be in order?
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Senni__Ti on June 01, 2014, 04:56:51 pm
Maybe unbalanced?
Fully committed stab an all.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 01, 2014, 05:08:33 pm
Are we talking about the regular awlpike or the long awlpike? Awlpike was "in fashion" on NA a while ago, but it has been months since I have seen a single player using one. It is still very good, but I am not sure it needs a nerf. Unbalanced might be worth trying, as it could still keep the speed + reach stabby niche that it has. This would just prevent people from running in circles and spamming the stab or feinting between stab/overhead. That looks goofy and unrealistic.

Do many players use it on EU? I don't know if a change would have any effect in NA, because I am serious that I have not seen a single awlpike in months.

If this is about the long awlpike then I don't know what to tell you. It's a balanced compromise between an ashwood pike and a long spear.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Grumbs on June 01, 2014, 05:32:44 pm
Unless they buffed it lately 2d poles are subpar in general gameplay imo. 2 handers, 1 handers and 4d poles are way better except for rearing horses. Better off overheading than stabbing nowadays unless you are ganking someone
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 01, 2014, 07:25:58 pm
Quote from: Grumbs on June 01, 2014, 05:32:44 pm
Unless they buffed it lately 2d poles are subpar [...] unless you are ganking someone

Yeah 2D weapons are awful if you are fighting alone but the reach and devastating hits (thrust or overhead, depending on the weapon) make them shine if you are fighting alongside someone on your team. The awlpike used to be fast enough that you could actually fight 1v1 with it. Now it's slower than the ashwood pike (which in my opinion is stronger than the awlpike's current stats, and sees more use in NA).

Actually, the military fork is the same way. I can duel with it because it's so fast. I'd take it over a battle fork any day, the extra speed makes it much better. And the cherry on top is that you can disguise yourself as a peasant while using it.  :P
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Grumbs on June 01, 2014, 07:40:06 pm
For ganking I feel like I might as well have any 4d weapon (pole, 2 hand or 1 hand). 2 hand and 1 hand stabs are better plus you have 2 extra directions and they're better 1v1. 2d poles usually have pretty bad overheads or they have very mediocre stab/range

The way the polearm stab bounces off things at range and the delay before they will do damage make them pretty weak comparatively imo. The stab seems really bad up close now. Not saying a good player won't do well with them, but they will probably do better and be more versatile with any other weapons.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 01, 2014, 07:48:24 pm
They're only good at one thing, but they're so good at it that I am almost guaranteed valor and endless kills as long as there is a good player or two to follow each round. In a pitched fight I can get 3-5 kills in about as many seconds. Stab-kill-turn-stab-kill. Even the best 4D polearms don't have that much power in a single swing.

2D is really good but nobody likes it  :oops:
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Grumbs on June 01, 2014, 07:51:50 pm
Do you mean Awlpike in particular because I don't see that sort of damage with the others. They feel slow and underpowered to me compared to anything else I can use (and I have all 3 WPF at 140)
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on June 01, 2014, 07:57:52 pm
The awlpike and ashwood spear are decent, but the longer more specialized 2D (long awlpike, corseque/spetum/ranseur, swiss halberd, english bill) are the ones that I prefer. They suffer heavily if you are forced to fight alone, but can kill many targets in a single hit (8PS, 155wpf here).

The awlpike has very high damage thrusts, but is much slower than most in the 150-160 length group of polearms. It is no longer the godly spammy thing it once was. The polearm turn nerf hurt it more than 4D weapons since you can't just sideswing instead of lolstabbing.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: San on June 01, 2014, 08:10:20 pm
Stats-wise, it has very high damage, but it's pretty mediocre in all other areas compared to other weapons(swiss, bill, 18x stab weapons). Witchcraft and Grumbs explain it better. The higher damage lets you do some interesting things with it, though. Battle fork could benefit from +1 speed (and similarly the double sided lance).
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Grumbs on June 01, 2014, 08:16:38 pm
Why not take a Greatsword though and have good reach, damage and versatility? They are good for ganking too. Or for shorter range poles just take a 1 hander and have protection from ranged with high damage and fast stabs and decent reach. I don't personally feel 2d poles have much of place except for rearing horses atm when you could use something better. The stabs just aren't good enough to justify 2 directions with usually a mediocre overhead damage
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Angantyr on June 01, 2014, 08:29:26 pm
Not many use it on EU servers either, Witchcraft. Maybe it is just me who've always found this a ridiculously good weapon, the perfect stabber.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Strudog on June 01, 2014, 08:41:16 pm
Quote from: Angantyr on June 01, 2014, 08:29:26 pm
Not many use it on EU servers either, Witchcraft. Maybe it is just me who've always found this a ridiculously good weapon, the perfect stabber.

it is. i find its the perfect weapon for everything, the best anti cav weapon imo
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: korppis on June 03, 2014, 06:04:59 pm
Awlpike is fine, just the price is weird. How come ashwood is more expensive?
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Johammeth on June 03, 2014, 10:23:27 pm
The Awlpike Horror
A film.

Plot Summary:
In the town of cRPGsville, a Masterwork Awlpike enjoys a meteoric rise in success and popularity, but is disgraced when he receives minor nerfs. Outraged, the internet-townsfolk drag the Awlpike kicking and screaming to the old stone bridge, and throw him in the river. As time passes, the Awlpike is forgotten along with his prophetic last words: "I'm still pretty damn good."

Months later, cRPGsville is plagued by an inexplicable rash of murders, all perpetrated with short, fast, stabbing weapons. Now, it's up to the skeptical police investigator, Angantyr, to determine whether these killings are the result of a deranged serial killer, or perhaps the vengeful consequence of the ghostly Awlpike's return.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Kafein on June 03, 2014, 10:49:07 pm
Scarred by a cRPG AAR in DF, 4lyfe.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on June 03, 2014, 10:58:10 pm
The Long Awlpike is not OP at all. The damage is good, when you hit right. But with less then 8 PS or 8 Ath you glance alot in close range melee. The overhead is not useful overall and as already been said it is the perfect medium to Long Spear and Ashwood Pike.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Knitler on June 03, 2014, 11:21:00 pm
Unbalanced? Noo way - For me its weird that the ashwoodpike is better than the awlpike ~ Its faster, you can use it with a shield, on such high ranks of dmg dealers (Awl = 36p , Ash = 33p) on MW it really doesnt matter anymore.
Stabs are overall kind of weird in the game (see 2H too)

But if you think its overpowered - play with it for some time, depending on your playstyle = You probably gonna glance alot , you will have weird recoils , and sometimes cant even kill an enemy.
I know its weird reading it from me.

For me; A weapon is overpowered when you can roll over 90% of ppl without even playing with it for a long time, that would be 2H - but therefore that 2H is an beginnerclass which you can also quite master its fine. Its not like you give a man a new weapon and he doesnt know how to kill with it anymore. You can see it in strat, where ppl have to get other weapons than their standard one, they will be not as good as with their normal weapon they are used to. Some can deal with it better cause of similarities, some not that good.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: spiritus on July 02, 2014, 04:06:48 am
LOL awlpike op really u cant block up and down? Good damage decent reach slow......2d!
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Gravoth_iii on July 02, 2014, 06:00:55 am
Nerf 1 damage, and give it to long awlpike pls  :mrgreen:

Also remove turnrate nerf then im ok with any nerfs to spears in general.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Grumbs on July 02, 2014, 09:46:51 pm
Please buff pole stab. If awlpike gets OP then nerf that by itself. Polestab feels like the worst/glanciest stab
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Teeth on July 03, 2014, 02:27:12 pm
Awlpike seems to have less ridiculous late reach hitting compared to before and instead it now glances at the really far part, which is a good change from the bullshit OP ghostreach it had before. Just played some awlpike + plate and it is still piss easy and OP as hell if you know what you are doing. Of course it takes a fairly high degree of skill for it to become effective, but once you have that I think there are few weapons that offer you the same sheer destructive power.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Mr.K. on July 03, 2014, 03:09:52 pm
Agree with Teeth here, the stab is good now. Most of the stabs feel good atm. 2H stab is still a bit too slow which makes turning it too easy, but the pole stab is pretty much spot on atm. The awlpike like other 2D poles are just too fast though which makes them so strong. Awlpike alone can't be nerfed (again) or it would fall behind all other pokey poles. All of them could use a slight speed nerf and also a str requirement increase imo. Speedbonus nerf to all melee hits could work as well as most of the insane awlpike damage comes from the stab speed bonus.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Gurnisson on July 03, 2014, 03:14:13 pm
You think 2d poles need a nerf in general? I never see them (apart from the awlpike) :?
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Teeth on July 03, 2014, 03:59:50 pm
Playing with an unloomed Spetum right now and its insanely good. Better than the awlpike.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Macropus on July 04, 2014, 08:59:37 pm
Yeah I don't get all this "2d poles are underpowered", I played with Spetum, Awplike, Swiss Halberd etc and they are all good.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Grumbs on July 04, 2014, 09:07:44 pm
If I want to stab i'd rather use a greatsword. Doesn't glance so much and has a decent reach + the side swings

2D poles feel like I limit myself without really gaining anything over my other weapons
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Teeth on July 04, 2014, 09:32:04 pm
Then you need to improve your stabbing. What a Spetum offers me is top notch damage at top notch speed at top notch reach.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 05, 2014, 11:28:24 am
2d ppoles are for those that go the extrta mile with abusing animations, going full epilepticv retard with their mouse, otherr then that - chamber that shit
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Kafein on July 05, 2014, 05:23:28 pm
Chamberblocking polearm stabs and overheads ? Sounds like a good plan :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on July 06, 2014, 05:21:53 am
2D polearms take a while to learn the hang of. They are limited in attack options, but their overheads and thrusts have great damage and unmatched reach (outside of pikes and great lances). There is no need to abuse animations. Just fight alongside an ally and make sure you are not using the same attack direction as they do. Halberd/partisan/bill are 2D looney toons axe.
Title: Re: Lawlpike
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 06, 2014, 08:42:20 pm
Quote from: Kafein on July 05, 2014, 05:23:28 pm
Chamberblocking polearm stabs and overheads ? Sounds like a good plan :rolleyes:
yes, yes it does.  :wink:

Quote from: WITCHCRAFT on July 06, 2014, 05:21:53 am
Snip

English bill is awesome, its very fashionable