cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Mendro on May 04, 2014, 02:08:26 pm

Title: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Mendro on May 04, 2014, 02:08:26 pm
Here we are, 1 month after the throwing nerf patch and 1 week after the throwing axes buff. Now what is the situation ? Here is my feeling :

High PT build are now useless. I maked some fast test on eu1 and the difference between 5 PT and 10 PT is so ridiculous.
On eu1 every throwers who are toping the scoreboard are agi build cause power throw is so useless now comparing to athletic and wpf.

Before the patch with my high PT build ( 30 / 15 ) I was trading my speedrun and my throwing speed for high damage.
Now I do the same damage as every thrower but I keep my shitty speedrun and throwing speed.

To be clear, I'm not asking for a stupid god mod where I will OS everyone. I just want something who will change all the points I invested in the STR way as a fair deal.

Or if your plan are just to make throwing agi builds as the only viable way, say it now and I will respec.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: San on May 04, 2014, 05:01:28 pm
You're right, Mendro, there isn't a huge difference.

18-24, 21-21, 24-18, and 27-15 all dealt the same damage when I tested in-game. 30-12 dealt slightly more, and 15-27 slightly less. The damage for 18-24 was 2 points higher than I expected from the calc, so there's something I don't take into account somewhere.

This is a problem with raw damage, so this was likely the same way ever since wpf/PT penalty was changed back last fall. Only thing I can think of is to decrease the rate of increase of the PT penalty as you raise it above 6. I'm sure there's probably a better solution, though.



Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: BlueKnight on May 04, 2014, 05:01:58 pm
Quote from: Mendro on May 04, 2014, 02:08:26 pm
Here we are, 1 month after the throwing nerf patch and 1 week after the throwing axes buff. Now what is the situation ? Here is my feeling :

High PT build are now useless. I maked some fast test on eu1 and the difference between 5 PT and 10 PT is so ridiculous.
On eu1 every throwers who are toping the scoreboard are agi build cause power throw is so useless now comparing to athletic and wpf.

Before the patch with my high PT build ( 30 / 15 ) I was trading my speedrun and my throwing speed for high damage.
Now I do the same damage as every thrower but I keep my shitty speedrun and throwing speed.

To be clear, I'm not asking for a stupid god mod where I will OS everyone. I just want something who will change all the points I invested in the STR way as a fair deal.

Or if your plan are just to make throwing agi builds as the only viable way, say it now and I will respec.
Did someone say respec?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Mendro on May 06, 2014, 10:04:19 am
Too bad we are not a lot of throwers using this kind of build.
I don't have any idea to fix it. It's pretty hard to change something without any effect on agi build.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Algarn on May 06, 2014, 12:57:26 pm
Give 1 or 1.5 % more damages when PT>6 ?

By that, I mean, for example, a jarid (5 PT requirement with 9PT) : (Weapon damage) + 10%(weapon damage) + 11.5%(weapon damage) + 13%(weapon damage) + 14.5% (weapon damage)

                                                                                                                                                          6 PT bonus                       7 PT bonus                     8 PT bonus                         9 PT bonus


And if you could raise a bit the melee abilities for str ranged builds, it'd be cool. 50 in 1h is a minimum.




(Also, If you could do a bit the same to archery on a lower increment, it would create more diversity in archers builds maybe. I mean, if we are ranged (archer or thrower) with high PD/PT, it's to do damages afaik. But it does seem that the bonus that wpf gives is a bit to high about archery when I see 18/24 or 18/27 doing way more damage than 7/8 PD builds, and it's exactly the same for throwers as said Mendro).
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: BlueKnight on May 06, 2014, 01:05:29 pm
Quote from: Algarn on May 06, 2014, 12:57:26 pm
(click to show/hide)

Some of the skillpoint/attribute stuff is hardcoded so simple change this to that may not be this easy.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Algarn on May 06, 2014, 01:41:39 pm
It's what I said myself about the fact a lot of things cannot be changed except if you completely create them, but nothing is simple. It's either buffing PD/PT skills, or we go to a agi ranged domination with 18/24 and 18/27 as predominant builds with a general damage buff, which must never happen, every 6 PD/PT build hurts already a lot, just would like high PT/PD to be rewarded with high missile speed and high damage for the sacrifice they make on accuracy.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Gravoth_iii on May 06, 2014, 01:42:39 pm
I think chase was rocking a 8PT build and destroying on eu1, just sayin.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Algarn on May 06, 2014, 01:49:54 pm
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on May 06, 2014, 01:42:39 pm
I think chase was rocking a 8PT build and destroying on eu1, just sayin.

He's destroying EU1 with any build, doesn't prove anything.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: BlueKnight on May 06, 2014, 02:09:36 pm
Quote from: Algarn on May 06, 2014, 01:49:54 pm
He's destroying EU1 with any build, doesn't prove anything.
this
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Jarlek on May 07, 2014, 06:44:10 pm
Remove damage gained from WPF, buff base damage.


Should be for all weapons, not just throwing.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Algarn on May 07, 2014, 07:53:39 pm
At least lower them. Would be idiot that someone could do the same damages with 1 wpf or 150 wpf.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Phew on May 07, 2014, 07:54:07 pm
Quote from: San on May 04, 2014, 05:01:28 pm
You're right, Mendro, there isn't a huge difference.

18-24, 21-21, 24-18, and 27-15 all dealt the same damage when I tested in-game. 30-12 dealt slightly more, and 15-27 slightly less. The damage for 18-24 was 2 points higher than I expected from the calc, so there's something I don't take into account somewhere.

Has Artie quit for good? Because if he reads this post, his brain might explode with rage.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Jarlek on May 07, 2014, 11:43:11 pm
Quote from: Algarn on May 07, 2014, 07:53:39 pm
At least lower them. Would be idiot that someone could do the same damages with 1 wpf or 150 wpf.
Why? You want wpf for the PT requirement, accuracy, firing speed, repairs and to be able to wear more armour.

You want to do more damage? Get more PT/PS/PD.

The reason I stopped going 100/140 wpf split on my archer was not because of the lower accuracy and firing speed. It's because it fucks up your damage.

There are a lot of reason to go high wpf/not use armour to not lose wpf. Losing damage because of lower wpf should not be one of them.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Algarn on May 08, 2014, 12:59:17 pm
I mean, yes about ranged, and also yes for melee. The fact you can fuck up everyone with 4 PS but 180 wpf is obviously retarded. But on ranged it's different. People that invest PT/PD should get a good damage improvement, since they sacrifice everything for damage (running speed, drawing speed, accuracy, wpf in melee, ...), but I wouldn't like to see the bonus from wpf completely removed. It wouldn't be a good idea and would make the game a bit unbalanced, and you'd see a lot of STR guys in plate after that, since they don't care about the wpf malus about damages. Lowering it to lower the influence of agi builds would be good for the game, but a complete removal would be bad for most of players.
Title: Re: Throwing - High power throw build are useless
Post by: Mendro on May 09, 2014, 09:59:29 am
Reduce damage from wpf and increase damage from PT seem like nice. Just need a good balance to not make hybrid build like 21/21 OP.