cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Yazid on April 06, 2014, 06:19:06 pm

Title: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Yazid on April 06, 2014, 06:19:06 pm
over the Elite Scimitar.

In fact the scimitar's curve makes it unrealistically glance like nobodys business and the speed of it isn't any better than the Elite Scimitar, 1 point? for less damage, less range and terrible handling?

I know you'll say well the Elite Scimitar is more expensive, OK but this isn't a game about what is more 'elite' or expensive or OP than something else it should be about trade-offs like a real RPG, do you want speed vs power? etc. At the moment I don't see the scimitar as a viable weapon other than for RP's sake, which explains why everyone just uses the elite one... so give the scimitar some viability as a weapon please.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 06:45:43 pm
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that the curve is what makes the weapon glance?
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Yazid on April 06, 2014, 06:46:51 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 06:45:43 pm
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that the curve is what makes the weapon glance?

Have you tried that damn thing? Try doing some rounds with scimitar and elite scimitar, and see how terrible a weapon the scimitar is, you're better off with a butter knife from NW
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 06:49:54 pm
Yes, but what does the curve have to do with how often it glances?
Quote from: Al_Walid_ibn_Yazid on April 06, 2014, 06:19:06 pm
In fact the scimitar's curve makes it unrealistically glance like nobodys business

Collision detection, and damage, is the same, regardless of the weapon model. The only differences are found in the weapon type, the exact item length stat, and damage values(such as your PS and the weapon's damage value).
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Dark_Blade on April 06, 2014, 06:53:07 pm
in native form of the sword meant something in armor break(or damage calculating, not sure) because of hitboxes... and actually curve swords was better then simple ones. not sure how come that scimitar is glancing even here.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Yazid on April 06, 2014, 06:57:52 pm
The Niuweidao is a much better weapon much more damage, and faster (how idk) and the chances of it glancing are minimal at best, however the right swing with scimitar glances pointblank, even with enough space to let the arm swing, it doesn't justify its shorter range from the elite scimitar if the scimitar glances more... I think there are plenty other people who know what I'm talking  about, in terms of balance I think this weapon needs serious re-balancing.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 07:13:25 pm
Quote from: Dark_Blade on April 06, 2014, 06:53:07 pm
in native form of the sword meant something in armor break(or damage calculating, not sure) because of hitboxes... and actually curve swords was better then simple ones. not sure how come that scimitar is glancing even here.
It doesn't. Warband creates a straight "bar" that extends from the hand, any time this bar intersects with a player's hit-capsule(when the attacker is in the weapon's release_anim, animation), warband registers a hit. The orientation of this bar depends solely on the weapon type.

Edit for clarification: The only time damage calculations intersect with when and where a weapon hits, is when deciding the bone penalty, and the sweetspot penalty. Neither of these two cases will be affected by a sword's curve, as the collision bar's orientation, as stated earlier, doesn't care about the shape of a weapon's model.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Gurnisson on April 06, 2014, 07:26:03 pm
Scimitar is a great weapon that I've been using a lot. If you don't make the curved model your advantage it's not worth it, but if you do, it's awesome!
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Yazid on April 06, 2014, 07:26:23 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 07:13:25 pm
It doesn't. Warband creates a straight "bar" that extends from the hand, any time this bar intersects with a player's hit-capsule(when the attacker is in the weapon's release_anim, animation), warband registers a hit. The orientation of this bar depends solely on the weapon type.

Edit for clarification: The only time damage calculations intersect with when and where a weapon hits, is when deciding the bone penalty, and the sweetspot penalty. Neither of these two cases will be affected by a sword's curve, as the collision bar's orientation, as stated earlier, doesn't care about the shape of a weapon's model.

In theory
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 08:35:24 pm
Quote from: Al_Walid_ibn_Yazid on April 06, 2014, 07:26:23 pm
In theory
If by theory, you mean scientific theory? What you're purporting does not stand up to the actual facts of the matter.  :oops:

The blade is illusive, that's all there is to it. I'm not saying it has no impact on performance, only that the impact is limited to perception.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Phew on April 09, 2014, 08:07:57 pm
By this same logic, the Niuweidao should be vastly better than the Liuyedao. However, most cRPG players would gladly take 1 speed over 1 cut damage, which explains why the Liuyedao is actually about TWICE as popular as the Niuweidao (according to the most recently-posted NA server stats).

Now, the Elite Scimitar happens to be the most popular 1h in NA (way more popular than the Scimitar), but I don't think that has anything to do with more glancing as you claim. At least on NA, the Elite Scimitar achieved legendary status in the hands of Balbaroth, and I think he inspired hoards of copycats (he hasn't played in like a year, but I still see people wearing his gear combo).

The extreme curvature of the regular Scimitar makes it look odd (both for the wielder and opponents), and I guess people just don't like the aesthetics. Stats-wise, the regular Scimitar is quite nice (it's the fastest 1h weapon with anywhere near that much reach), so it's all in your head.

Quote from: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 08:35:24 pm
The blade is illusive, that's all there is to it.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on April 11, 2014, 07:16:34 pm
It's curvy blade always fools me and I end up getting whipped with it over and over again, thinking "there is no way that thing is gonna reach and hit me from that angle". Needless to say it does everytime.

Can't see why you think it is crap. Some people have been specifically using it quite successfully.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: MURDERTRON on April 12, 2014, 02:04:58 am
I think the Scimitar's length stat more closely represents its model than the Elite Scimitar does.  What I'm saying is that Scimitar doesn't have the absurd ghost reach of the Elite Scimitar, and is therefor a much worse weapon.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Tibe on April 12, 2014, 10:22:47 am
(ಠ_ಠ)┌∩┐
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on April 12, 2014, 10:44:28 am
I would take the scimitar over the elite scimitar every time. Speed is essential, and the elite scimitar looks extremely silly to me,.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Yazid on April 12, 2014, 04:16:26 pm
I've grown to use it a bit more but honestly, it can't hit anything left swing unless its point blank, it's range is literally no different from the liuyedao in this respect even if the numbers are different, I still think liuyedao and niuweidao Chinese weapons are better balanced than the glancitar.. Just from personal use of the weapon its kinda gimp.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2014, 04:48:50 pm
The scimitar is better than the elite scimi. The only disadvantages are 1c, 3 length and 0.1 weight. Just that for one more speed and a much, much more confusing model at 5/8 of the price.

I'd say the liuweidao and niuweidao are even better due to ridiculous speed and better damage for people that are good enough to manage playing with short weapons. I personally would take the niuweidao over the liuweidao because at 1.2 weight the blockstuns of the liuweidao can become a real problem.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Rico on April 12, 2014, 05:01:53 pm
Quote from: Kafein on April 12, 2014, 04:48:50 pm
I'd say the liuweidao and niuweidao are even better due to ridiculous speed and better damage for people that are good enough to manage playing with short weapons agiwhores in light armor.

Fixed that for you.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Kafein on April 12, 2014, 05:42:42 pm
Quote from: Panuru on April 12, 2014, 05:01:53 pm
Fixed that for you.

(click to show/hide)

Trust me, some people are just bad at footwork, which would in this case be more accurately denoted as "two peacocks during mating season". So yeah, some people are bad at peacock mating season.

The usual tradeoff between long and short weapons is that shorter means faster hence easier to hit exactly when you want to, at the cost of reach. Longer weapons are better all around but also better if you use predicting skills more than reacting skills, short weapons being the other way around.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: San on April 12, 2014, 06:41:37 pm
Swing sweetspots are all about facing your opponent. If you're glancing, he was too much to your side at the time it hit.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 12, 2014, 08:30:37 pm
Quote from: Al_Walid_ibn_Yazid on April 06, 2014, 07:26:23 pm
In theory
You could reskin the scimitar to be a five foot thick twenty foot long gigantic purple penis and it would have the same skeleton. You could delete the skin and have a completely invisible skeleton for the scimitar and it would still act the same.


This is not real life, not even remotely, this is a computer program. The physics, animations, visuals and skeletons are all completely unrelated. The only reason why we even have skins is so you (the user) can see what the hell is going on. The game would technically (not practically) function 100% the same without skins and everything being invisible.
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: Molly on April 13, 2014, 09:06:59 am
Quote from: Tears of Destiny on April 12, 2014, 08:30:37 pm
You could reskin the scimitar to be a five foot thick twenty foot long gigantic purple penis[...]
Saints Row much? :D
Title: Re: Scimitar is a crap weapon and it offers no advantage whatsoever
Post by: dreadnok on April 13, 2014, 07:35:38 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on April 06, 2014, 06:45:43 pm
How exactly did you come to the conclusion that the curve is what makes the weapon glance?

 Now it WILL glance for sure next patch