cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: Clockworkkiller on March 12, 2014, 10:23:39 pm

Title: cav players
Post by: Clockworkkiller on March 12, 2014, 10:23:39 pm
can all go die, like the skilless, easymode my old friend no lifes they are
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Prpavi on March 13, 2014, 04:10:30 pm
reporting for the first train to herru!  (/   ^___^ )/
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Matim on March 13, 2014, 06:55:27 pm
can all go die, like the skilless, easymode my old friend no lifes they are

Come play with me on NW on cav gf and shut up
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Snufalufagus on March 13, 2014, 07:12:44 pm
All cav player eventually die and go to hell.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sari on March 13, 2014, 07:42:12 pm
can all go die, like the skilless, easymode my old friend no lifes they are

First, have you tried cavalry? If no, you don't know how hard it really is. Cavalry is expensive, I lose more gold on a horse than archery or throwing or even infantry. On a horse, your speed is an enemy, your enemies can one shot you with a hit that could take away 1/4 of you hp on foot. Your back is open to everything like archers to infantry. Infantry swinging at your horse's back will hit you too. If you don't plan your attack, you'll end up dead fast. If you don't strike at the right moment, you could end up killing your teammate(even though they bother me sometimes). Infantry and archers could target your legs, they aren't usually protected by the shield.

Yes, cavalry is easy in some ways. I could easily one shot people the same way they can one shot me. Bumping is an easy way to stun your enemies right before swinging so they can block your attack. Couching is easy too, gathering all your speed to ram a metal tip on a long pole into somebody, easily one shoting them.

Don't get me started on mounted range. I know I've played Horse crossbow for a long time and it's really easy to get kills without getting dirty. But when you think about it, if I miss my target, I'll have to reload that takes enough time for range to kill me. Not only reloading takes for ever but if I get hit but an arrow or slash by a weapon, I'll have to start the whole process over with. Even though HX takes awhile to reload and shoot, HA is even gayer than that. Reloading at high speeds that can kill somebody in a hurry. But only thing HX has that HA doesn't is more agility points, HA have to put more points into strength use use bows like the horn or yumi while the HX can only have 6 or 8 to use the hunting or light.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sniger on March 13, 2014, 10:03:10 pm
First, have you tried cavalry?
yes

Cavalry is expensive, I lose more gold on a horse than archery or throwing or even infantry.
1 LP = 400-500k gold = hours and hours of full (horse+self) plate battle for the lols. this without the x5 multiplier you most likely have due to being member of a stacking megaclan  :lol:

On a horse, your speed is an enemy, your enemies can one shot you with a hit that could take away 1/4 of you hp on foot. Your back is open to everything like archers to infantry. Infantry swinging at your horse's back will hit you too. If you don't plan your attack, you'll end up dead fast. If you don't strike at the right moment, you could end up killing your teammate(even though they bother me sometimes). Infantry and archers could target your legs, they aren't usually protected by the shield.
you just explained my gameplay here and im not cav :)

Yes, cavalry is easy in some ways. I could easily one shot people the same way they can one shot me. Bumping is an easy way to stun your enemies right before swinging so they can block your attack. Couching is easy too, gathering all your speed to ram a metal tip on a long pole into somebody, easily one shoting them.
^

Mounted range is abormination and ignored
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 13, 2014, 10:33:55 pm
can all go die, like the skilless, easymode my old friend no lifes they are

You sound poor.  Know your role, pleb.

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Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Bobthehero on March 14, 2014, 02:33:15 am
The pike is a great equalize, creates a big bubble of ''nope'' for any solo cav all around you.

Edit: That said, some cav, okay just Devilize, are shitstain that plague my life :(
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sniger on March 14, 2014, 12:05:10 pm
i hate cav as much as you do but no matter how you twist and turn it...:

(click to show/hide)

 :(  :cry:
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on March 15, 2014, 12:03:10 am
crpg racism

is why I stopped with 2h and avoid playing cav

I like shooting people though

Somehow people never hate on shielders. Never. I don´t get it.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Kafein on March 15, 2014, 01:49:58 am
crpg racism

is why I stopped with 2h and avoid playing cav

I like shooting people though

Somehow people never hate on shielders. Never. I don´t get it.

Can you really hate harmless stuff like ants ? I don't.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on March 15, 2014, 11:07:14 am
don´t underestimate em :I
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: bavvoz on March 15, 2014, 11:20:55 am
First, have you tried cavalry? If no, you don't know how hard it really is.
I dont wanna troll u and i dont hate cav but that made me giggle
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sniger on March 16, 2014, 02:13:37 pm
harmless

 :lol:

Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 17, 2014, 10:55:27 pm
can all go die, like the skilless, easymode my old friend no lifes they are
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Title: Re: cav players
Post by: NejStark on March 17, 2014, 10:59:31 pm
qq
mad cuz bad
etc
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sniger on March 17, 2014, 11:23:53 pm
they are like the counterstrike players only using awpee
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Gurnisson on March 17, 2014, 11:58:11 pm
they are like the counterstrike players only using awpee

No, that's crossbowmen :P
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sniger on March 18, 2014, 10:44:05 am
No, that's crossbowmen :P

okok HX then?  :P
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on April 10, 2014, 08:23:30 pm
Felt the need for some crying

Even with the new speed buff for heavy lance, why should somebody ever consider to play lance cav nowadays? You can´t outrange enemies anymore, almost every weapon can rear your horse and you glace so often that people already started to call this class "glance cav".

Most people now even play 1hcav with an additional great lance, they just ride around and couch some cheap kills, if they get reared they just switch to 1h, spam and slowly ride away with their tanks.

Also, it´s plausible that a horse rears when you stab it from the front side, but no. fucking. animal. would ever rear if you hurt it from the side. But it still happens. Stab my horse into the butt and it will rear. (lol no wait thats not funny, its depressing and sad as shit :( )

So what mostly happens is this: I carefully try to ninja people and try to hit them. But mostly I
- glance and deal no damage at all
- get attacked from the side, rear, die
- get shot, die
- get stopped by 1h cav, die

I might be also bad since I´m a bit out of practice, I mostly play bowbimbo, but I can´t get rid of the feeling that lance cav is currently the most useless cav class around.

much tears, so sad
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Gurnisson on April 10, 2014, 08:51:10 pm
- glance and deal no damage at all
- get attacked from the side, rear, die
- get shot, die
- get stopped by 1h cav, die

- Bad timing
- Bad maneuvering and/or awareness
- All right, I'll give you that one
- Outskilled or badly played

I've been playing lance cav quite a lot these last few days. I haven't noticed anything wrong with lance cav, and I don't find it weaker than other cav classes, just different pros and cons.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: San on April 10, 2014, 09:18:35 pm
Quote
I might be also bad since I´m a bit out of practice, I mostly play bowbimbo, but I can´t get rid of the feeling that lance cav is currently the most useless cav class around.

Before the recent hoplite/lancer optimization, a lot of the most damaging parts of the stab were in the earlier part of the lance's reach. It was abusable in lancer duels since you can cause glances if you got the opponent to release too early. It feels slightly different (and better) now, and maybe it'll take a bit more time for some to get used to it. Against melee, it's a lot easier to "move" into your stab, hitting on the later parts of the reach. If you were used to the old stab timing, you'll deal less damage sometimes.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Macropus on April 10, 2014, 10:24:23 pm
Hm, you know how I feel about classes in general...

- For infantry, your performance depends on your skill compared to skill of your enemy
- For ranged, your performance depends on your skill alone
- For cav, your performance depends on your enemy's skill alone


Generally speaking, if you die to infantry - he was better than you; if you die to ranged - well, everyone does; if you die to cav - you're bad.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Teeth on April 10, 2014, 10:45:25 pm
I feel that the latest lance stab optimization levelled the playing field between lancer cav and slasher cav. Ikarus, I think if you practice with hitting at your maximum reach and using the new sweetspots, you'll find that lance cav is very potent now. The heavy glance has stopped glancing during the last half of the animation which makes it's longer reach actually useful. The comeback of the viable heavy lance has made lance cav a much bigger threat against aware infantry. Perhaps a general armoured horse nerf is in order though, we all know that upkeep is not really an effective balance factor and the servers are filled to the brim with Mamluks.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Joseph Porta on April 10, 2014, 10:51:00 pm
Use red tassle on horseback for maximum libido
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on April 11, 2014, 11:54:39 am
Okay, then I just suck balls and need some practice :mrgreen: thanks
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Aksei on April 11, 2014, 12:00:03 pm
as 1h foot shielder o dont care too much for heavy cav, just make a step. The arabian warhorse is OP though
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: F i n on April 11, 2014, 12:36:06 pm
When i was using my plated charger + 3 and full + 3 plate armor with a 2h i had a KD of 5:1...

Yes - Cav is powerful.

But ffs, i spend like 1 m to upkeep on that gen :D.

Besides - look at historic battlefields -

Where WARhorses were merely used for amusement and casual driving.... right? 

Just saying.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: 722_ on April 11, 2014, 02:00:59 pm
My +3 Padded Warhorse now got 1 hitted, yes, 1 hitted 2 rounds in a row. One time from  a 1 hand stab and second time from a great bardiche sideswing. 1 fucking hitted.  :|

Heavy horses need way more hp/body armor.

i use the same horse, and it can get 1 hit but its incredibly uncommon if you dont get greedy. i dont really class it as heavy cav either as it has way less armour than any of the more expensive horses after it, its sort of in the middle of light and heavy cav
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Teeth on April 11, 2014, 02:23:58 pm
My +3 Padded Warhorse now got 1 hitted, yes, 1 hitted 2 rounds in a row. One time from  a 1 hand stab and second time from a great bardiche sideswing. 1 fucking hitted.  :|

Heavy horses need way more hp/body armor.
No they don't. It's literally an infestation of heavy horses on EU 1 mostly. Padded Warhorse is barely an armored horse, speed bonus works two ways and if you play lancer, their base damage is usually way higher than yours. So don't charge anywhere unless you are fairly certain that you can prevent getting hit on the front of your horse. I am having quite a lot of fun as cav now, because the fixed Heavy Lance allows me to take on many types of infantry from the front and win with superior stab timing. I use a Destrier and it takes a damn special kind of scenario to get it 1 hit by infantry.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Gurnisson on April 11, 2014, 03:19:34 pm
The medium-to-heavy horses can get one-shot from time to time, then again you can survive quite a lot of hits as well. Asking for increased HP/armor after it happened twice in a row is a joke, right? It can be frustrating, but would you be asking for a survivability nerf when it survives 5 hits two rounds in a row as well?

Compared to the Arabian my old friendget horse I don't find heavy cav op. Some of the best heavy horses could maybe do with 6 or 7 req though.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: bruce on April 11, 2014, 03:34:23 pm
Heavy horses need no buffs. There's too many of them already - if we had open maps instead of archerbundle of sticksryheaven every second round, they'd just wreck the game.

The problem is that basically if you fuck up and get your horse slashed nothing bad happens. On the other hand you have good chances of one-hitting people in return. Mind you the go-kart arabians are nearly as annoying and have always been.

Fact of the matter is that as a not so great player you can easily go 1:1 with a rouncey, and on decent maps do really well if you're careful, even decisive when not a lot of players are around and you slash some hero from behind.

Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Sniger on May 05, 2014, 06:08:14 pm
i think its sad that all weapons (yeah! all! cos everyone use polearm or 2h! :P ) rear horses.

its forcing them to act backstabbers instead of chargers = class iz broke IMO. now cav is bacstabbing more than ever and its understandable too, though annoying that such a cool class has been twistet into something not as cool.

i think cav should be careless about horse, charging full on. thats what they did back in the day. but not allowed in crpg because of the sheer amount of cav and thats because it is very easy to become cav and keep cav'ing till theres no tomorrow.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Thryn on May 05, 2014, 06:20:33 pm
why was this resurrected
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on May 05, 2014, 07:05:47 pm
i think its sad that all weapons (yeah! all! cos everyone use polearm or 2h! :P ) rear horses.

its forcing them to act backstabbers instead of chargers = class iz broke IMO. now cav is bacstabbing more than ever and its understandable too, though annoying that such a cool class has been twistet into something not as cool.

i think cav should be careless about horse, charging full on. thats what they did back in the day. but not allowed in crpg because of the sheer amount of cav and thats because it is very easy to become cav and keep cav'ing till theres no tomorrow.

We are forced to play as backstabbers (except these dirty 1h cav tanks, boo!), cause infantry doesn´t pay attention to their surroundings at ALL (no really, I often think to myself "fuck, how can somebody be that blind AND deaf? D:") and nerfed cav a lot.

Since the new buff, where like, every weapon can rear horses, I mostly gave up playing with my destrier-lancer. Either youre on a light horse with xbow/throw/bow or a heavy horse with 1h, stuff in between is futile.

Back to xbowing
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 05, 2014, 07:30:41 pm
Once upon a time I had to search for weapons that rear horses, now I can hardly find a weapon that doesnt. Kind of annoying that my +3 plated charger gets reared by a shortened spear, I mean how is that supposed to work?
(click to show/hide)
Charging from the front to shock infantry ranks just before the own infantry comes in is suicide, the way I see it about 75% of all infantry can rear your horse. Cav's main role is backstabbing slalom ninja with thundering hooves. And projectile magnet ofc
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Teeth on May 05, 2014, 07:35:21 pm
It's all about the resurrection of the Heavy Lance. You can actually use it's entire reach now, which allows you to comfortably take on opponents with 2h up to 120 reach and polearm up to 150 if you got your timing down. Which means that you can take on most melee players from the front, you can even challenge players with longer weapons if you use a bit of trickery. Now charging aware people is tricky and risky, but few things are as satisfying as seeing a 2h hero turn towards you eagerly, only for you to firmly plant your Heavy Lance in his face. All those shorter polearms that can rear now are largely irrelevant as long as you carefully plan your attack and escape, you can outreach all of them.

I play with a Destrier and I am finding it hugely enjoyable and it is easily capable of getting me to the top of the scoreboard. I spend a lot of my time punishing cav scrubs that rush the spawn or crutch on heavy horses and it is very satisfying and I am getting loads of points.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: San on May 05, 2014, 07:36:55 pm
I saw it as a buff to cav. Get the pikeman/hoplite to glance-> easy bump stab.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 05, 2014, 09:26:00 pm
<---- 2h cav, no heavy lance
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Teeth on May 05, 2014, 11:43:38 pm
<---- 2h cav, no heavy lance
Well, if you chose to be 2h cav you are not gonna be as good at fighting aware opponents, the upside is that you have about twice the damage potential of the Heavy Lance. Even with 6 ps it felt like I dealt way more damage than my 9 ps lance cav.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on May 08, 2014, 12:07:21 pm
Nerf 1h cav attack range
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Top view of 1h cav and it´s attack range. The green spaces are realistic, but the red space is just unfair and weird. The rider would have to break its spine to twist in the saddle as the units in crpg do. If a rider runs into a wall and his horse rears, he can easily defend upcoming foes by wildly spamming left and right because he covers his whole back with his swings.

You guys nerfed lancecav because of a similar reason back then("thats unrealistic, nobody can twist his torso like that in a saddle!"), below the old lance range in orange and green;  new lance range after it was nerfed only in green.

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Give me a good reason why it shouldn´t be nerfed.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: F i n on May 08, 2014, 12:28:15 pm
Yet i wonder if i was the only person regarding ikarus' pics in a sexual way at first, then noticing it's just some technical stuff...
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on May 08, 2014, 01:22:59 pm
Yet i wonder if i was the only person regarding ikarus' pics in a sexual way at first, then noticing it's just some technical stuff...
I never draw porn
(click to show/hide)

nah srsly, dat range is outrageous :I
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Teeth on May 08, 2014, 05:29:13 pm
1h right swing on horseback can actually reach far enough directly in front of the horse to be able to hit another horseman in the back when you ride behind him.
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Ikarus on May 08, 2014, 07:13:27 pm
1h right swing on horseback can actually reach far enough directly in front of the horse to be able to hit another horseman in the back when you ride behind him.

While you can´t attack with lance people right in front of you because the lance has to be left or right of the horses head (I forgot that in the graphic up there)

Really, it´s...just wrong :evil:
Title: Re: cav players
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 08, 2014, 09:06:06 pm
There you go:

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Title: Re: cav players
Post by: Smoothrich on May 23, 2014, 06:17:50 pm
It's all about the resurrection of the Heavy Lance. You can actually use it's entire reach now, which allows you to comfortably take on opponents with 2h up to 120 reach and polearm up to 150 if you got your timing down. Which means that you can take on most melee players from the front, you can even challenge players with longer weapons if you use a bit of trickery. Now charging aware people is tricky and risky, but few things are as satisfying as seeing a 2h hero turn towards you eagerly, only for you to firmly plant your Heavy Lance in his face. All those shorter polearms that can rear now are largely irrelevant as long as you carefully plan your attack and escape, you can outreach all of them.

I play with a Destrier and I am finding it hugely enjoyable and it is easily capable of getting me to the top of the scoreboard. I spend a lot of my time punishing cav scrubs that rush the spawn or crutch on heavy horses and it is very satisfying and I am getting loads of points.

Yeah that is a good description of Heavy Lance playstyle. I still prefer regular Lance, even before Heavy got all its nerfs. You can do most of what you mentioned unless the enemy is a very skilled/lucky lancer or greatsworder/hoplite, but what I really like is the faster wind-up of the Lance. You can do a good bit more damage in cav gridlock, or with barely any momentum in the middle of clusterfucks, killstealing into crowds like a pikeman. The slow, long release of a Heavy is pretty much ideal for head on encounters where you control the speeds, but in tight quarters its always been a let down, making pike wiggles necessary.

Of course I usually have a HBS on my back anyway, when you want to trample and grief a big brawl, a swinging weapon can't be beat. But all the lances are way more accurate and easier to land hits from a variety of angles than any swinging weapon.

All of these shit posts about OP swinging arcs, you realize the horse has to be right next or on top of you to use any of that to begin with. All you have to do is backpedal and stab or slash the horse's legs and you can basically one shot it with any weapon. Or move in front of the horse and take no bump damage while avoiding a swing if you can't just sidestep. You can't sidestep or avoid an aimed lance only downblock it, which archers understand but almost all infantry players don't. The amount of backwards jumping right swinging shielders that you can kill as lance cav is always fucking hilarious.

tl;dr Buff Cav