cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Senni__Ti on March 06, 2014, 07:35:54 pm

Title: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Senni__Ti on March 06, 2014, 07:35:54 pm
Something has always bugged me about seeing european-style knights, riding around with the arabian cavalry sword.
So I've attempted to make an alternative more european style of sword.

Just so you're forewarned, I'm pretty bad at texturing :P. (it's all by hand :S)

European cavalry sword

http://p3d.in/elrja
http://p3d.in/vA0o7

http://imgur.com/a/K8qmZ
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It's currently 105 length, though it can be easily adjusted to other sizes.

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Thoughts/stuff/spam?


EDIT:

New model;

Heavy Greatsword

http://p3d.in/BnVOW

Nordwolf's modified leather version
http://p3d.in/KdPCB
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96841139/Senni_Heavygreatsword_edited.rar

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Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: zagibu on March 06, 2014, 07:55:25 pm
The pommel is too flat and has too sharp edges, otherwise I like it.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Torben on March 06, 2014, 08:07:44 pm
hm,  sexy already!  finetune that shit so we can get it in plox :D
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on March 06, 2014, 08:52:05 pm
http://p3d.in/1IaNh

Like this?
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: 722_ on March 06, 2014, 09:11:35 pm
Wow thats really nice Senni, i hope it gets in. +1
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Angellore on March 06, 2014, 09:41:37 pm
Your sword looks very nice. At the moment Arabian Cavalry Sword got no competition, so would be great to see new sword for 1h cav.
Comparing your sword to Arabian Cavalry Sword, I think it should be lighter (2.1kg?), have less swing damage (32?) and more stab damage (21?). I also don't understand why devs buffed Arabian Cavalry Sword (+1 speed) in recent patch. I think both swords (yours and Arabian) should have 95 speed. So, imo their stats should look like this:
Quote
Arabian Cavalry Sword
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 19 pierce
swing damage: 33 cut
slots: 1
Quote
European Cavalry Sword
weight: 2.1
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
slots: 1
I hope this sword will be added, to have more variability in 1h cav weapons :).
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on March 06, 2014, 09:45:05 pm
Those are the stats I was thinking of too (literally :O), but it's up to the balancers :P

Thanks guys
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: San on March 06, 2014, 11:51:31 pm
Stats are good.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Kafein on March 06, 2014, 11:58:34 pm
What about making it 106 length, 94 speed and 33c ?

Edit: when masterworked
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: 722_ on March 07, 2014, 12:03:47 am
European Cavalry Sword
weight: 2.1
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 32 cut
slots: 1

This sounds a bit too close to the Nordic champion sword to me, i think it should be more cut oriented for a cavalry weapon

Nordic champion sword
weight:1.8
difficulty:13
Speed:97
Length:102
Thrust:21 pierce
Swing:32 cut
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Angellore on March 07, 2014, 01:20:20 am
Yeah 722, it would be heavier, longer and slower Nordic Champion's Sword. In other words, Nordic's version for cav.
I proposed those stats, because of simple elimination.
Having 105 length 1h weapon already gives it amazing reach from horseback, so I don't think we should increase the length even more. It would be ideal to set it's swing damage to 32.5, but i'm affraid we can't be that accurate :(. If you set it's swing damage to 33, it could just replace Arabian. Swing speed isn't that important from horseback (it matters much more when dehorsed), so even if you give it 1 less speed than Arabian, with same swing damage, almost all people might change to new sword. I just feel, giving this sword 33 cut damage on swing will make it the obvious choice for cav, just like Arabian Cavalry Sword is now.
I know 1 swing damage less makes huge difference for 1h cav, but nowadays 1h thrust (even from horseback) isn't that bad, so having 2 thrust damage more should give it some nice bonus. It could even get 3 thrust damage more (up to 22 thrust damage, since it would be 2 speed slower than Nordic).
I think 1 more swing damage or 2-3 thrust damage is valable choice. Maybe slightly favors Arabian for 1h cav, but both weapons would be very good - 105 length is the key here, because atm Arabian is the only 105 length 1h weapon in game.
Anyway, it's just my opinion, and i'm not the balancer. I just hope it will be added to the game in any form. Stats can be tweaked later, if needed :).
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: San on March 07, 2014, 01:50:31 am
22p might also work, considering paramerion is 23p and 1 speed faster for less length & weight.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: smals98 on March 07, 2014, 02:14:15 am
(click to show/hide)
Great work man I hope it gets in. +1  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Jarold on March 07, 2014, 05:10:19 am
Nice! The pommel could use some work but otherwise great job modeling and texturing it.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Life on March 07, 2014, 05:39:00 am
can you make a better, glorified, AMERICAN version too? :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: owens on March 07, 2014, 06:08:47 am
I Like the model

My only worry is the point. It is very thin and pointy at the....point and could be very hard to see. We have enough invisitip and misleading weapon models as it is.


Stats are fair. Maybe it should make the big 107 reach?
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Osakasa on March 07, 2014, 07:51:19 am
I really like this sword, good work Senni. If this sword is meant to be cav sword and be a competitor for ACS, the balance between two swords goes:

                Reach    Damage (swing)
Sword A:  longer   less
Sword B:  shorter  higher

Why? Because +98% of hits on horseback are swings, so if this new sword has exactly the same reach but swing damage is lower, i would go ACS. I don't mind about rest of the stats (spd, mass etc.) but imo this is a big picture how to balance cav swords.

or
Nice little extra would be secondary mode as a 2h weapon if this had same reach but lower swing damage but that's another story though. Anyways, great work Senni :)

Osa|Kasa|la
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Algarn on March 07, 2014, 10:16:30 am
Me gusta, get a +1.

Also, it could be a 1h/2h like lange messer.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Angellore on March 07, 2014, 10:48:23 am
What about making it 106 length (...)
Maybe it should make the big 107 reach?
                Reach    Damage (swing)
Sword A:  longer   less
Sword B:  shorter  higher
Why? Because +98% of hits on horseback are swings, so if this new sword has exactly the same reach but swing damage is lower, i would go ACS. I don't mind about rest of the stats (spd, mass etc.) but imo this is a big picture how to balance cav swords.
And this is why balancing this sword can give a headache to item balancers. Current problem is more in Arabian Cavalry Sword than anything else. Right now Arabian Cavalry Sword has weight advantage, swing damage advantage and length advantage. It has everything which is important on horseback. That's the main reason why it will be hard to add something to compete with it.
Like Kafein and Owens mentioned, making new sword longer than Arabian would be nice option. The problem is, people already considers Arabian as too long weapon, so putting even longer 1h weapon to the game is a risky move.
Probably best solution would be to shorten Arabian Cavalry Sword by 2-3 length points, but as I understand, this is out of discussion? That would require model change, and will make a lot of people unhappy. But yeah, since Arabian got 33 cut damage on swing, it would make more sense to make it shorter (102-103 length), and new weapon with 32 swing damage longer (105 length). So it would be length for damage trade (best possible solution, like few people already mentioned).
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Kafein on March 07, 2014, 02:16:48 pm
Possibly, it could be almost identical to the ACS, just with a better stab.

It could be 104 length, 96 speed, 21p and 33c

Or, harder hitting and slower, but the model wouldn't make sense:

104 length, 94 speed, 20p, 34c
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Sniger on March 08, 2014, 09:06:46 am
love the idea of alternative 105 length cav swords. its needed. i think this one looks too much like the italian sword though. i guess they are similar swords but a cav sword would be alot broader yes? anyway good idea, +200! deffy need more cav swords.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on March 08, 2014, 09:32:21 pm
Redid the pommel texture + UV map, updated OP.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Soldier_of_God on March 09, 2014, 05:32:52 am
YES
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Franke on March 09, 2014, 03:30:28 pm
A good idea and a nice looking model. I use Knightly Arming Sword when on horseback. Do your sword's 105 length make so much of a difference compared to the KAS's 102?
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Miwiw on March 09, 2014, 03:34:20 pm
Yes Franke. It's far more easier to hit with a Arabian Cavalry Sword than with a Knightly Arming Sword. People with a ACS have such an easy time. KAS isn't a bad sword but I noticed myself that I don't hit as many targets than compared to a ACS. ^^

An European Cavalry Sword would be really nice, with that length. Something nice for HRE for example, for sure.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Gurnisson on March 09, 2014, 03:51:37 pm
The length increase is not that huge, but the higher damage is very important.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on March 09, 2014, 04:06:49 pm
The length increase is not that huge, but the higher damage is very important.

Agreed, and the ACS has both (compared to other 1hs).

What would people prefer as an alternative to the ACS?
Less slash + more stab, same length?
Less dmg + more length?
More dmg + less length?
etc.

Wondering if I should tweak the model basically.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: 722_ on March 09, 2014, 05:46:39 pm
I think  length + swing damage is all that matter for a cav sword and if these where inferior people will still take the ACS. The best solution i can think of is to have the length and swing the damage the same and have either less weight and more thrust damage or the other way around with more weight and less thrust. the swords would be almost be identical which actually might not be a bad thing. whatever happens im looking forward to it, I cant use ACS with HRE restrictions :P
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: San on March 09, 2014, 06:15:17 pm
Stab has a use, people just don't use it that often. I like its precision and it's better in certain confrontations.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Gurnisson on March 09, 2014, 11:41:11 pm
I think  length + swing damage is all that matter for a cav sword and if these where inferior people will still take the ACS.

Personal preference. A stab is great for killing other cavalry, particularly 1h and 2h cav.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: imisshotmail on March 09, 2014, 11:43:39 pm
The stab on horseback is pretty amazing and probably the best swing if you can use it right, imo the Long Espada is the best cavalry sword.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Kafein on March 10, 2014, 11:21:37 am
The length increase is not that huge

What an appropriate thing to say for someone with your sig
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Rico on March 10, 2014, 11:01:26 pm
Any news, zagibu?

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Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: smals98 on March 21, 2014, 10:07:20 pm
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Nothing else need be said...... :D
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: HarunYahya on March 23, 2014, 04:29:34 am
Yeah and I want mid-eastern danish sword please.
Also y u no add Japanese style flamberge ? Just strech out nodachi a bit and ta da !
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Soldier_of_God on March 29, 2014, 12:37:34 am
Bump, really like this.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on March 29, 2014, 01:06:32 am
Bump, really like this.

Thanks :D
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Soldier_of_God on March 29, 2014, 04:32:19 am
no prob. not sure why the devs aren't slobbering all over it honestly.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: San on March 29, 2014, 05:10:40 am
forum.melee.org/index.php?action=profile;u=593
Last Active:March 09, 2014, 04:17:30 pm

That's why.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Soldier_of_God on March 29, 2014, 05:00:39 pm
Ah. that explains alot :P
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Teeth on March 29, 2014, 06:20:03 pm
Zagibu is dead, mod is dead
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: 722_ on March 29, 2014, 07:09:20 pm
Zagibu is dead, mod is dead

Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: smals98 on May 12, 2014, 06:21:58 pm
bump for good Idear  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Bimbo_Jones on May 18, 2014, 01:34:58 am
is this off the table now? there were no items added in the last patches unfortunately
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on May 18, 2014, 02:29:23 am
I haven't taken it off :P

Almost finished a replacement for the heavy greatsword/ new 2h aswell.
I think I'll wait to see what happens to this one before I continue. (+ exams)
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: 722_ on May 18, 2014, 11:23:15 am
If zagibu comes back I'm sure I will get in, guess all we can do is wait
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 18, 2014, 08:08:07 pm
New model:
http://p3d.in/BnVOW

Heavy Greatsword
130 length

:D
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Joseph Porta on August 18, 2014, 09:54:02 pm
Grr, cant view it! Could you add a screenie?
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword
Post by: Algarn on August 18, 2014, 10:13:42 pm
New model:
http://p3d.in/BnVOW

Heavy Greatsword
130 length

:D

Light flamberge sounds to be a better name for that model in my opinion. Still, nice work.

(Also, if you could make a falchion re-texture, you'd be a hero !)
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 18, 2014, 10:19:06 pm
http://imgur.com/a/UmZQf
(click to show/hide)


EDIT:
Light flamberge sounds to be a better name for that model in my opinion. Still, nice work.

(Also, if you could make a falchion re-texture, you'd be a hero !)

Hasn't got a wavy blade :P (but yeah I want it to act as a mini flamberge :D)

I would, but my textures suck D:
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Sagar on August 19, 2014, 02:55:27 pm
Does anyone know who make the model for Lowlander Sword in Battle for Europe?
Its really very nice sword. It will be great to see this beauty in cRPG.
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Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 19, 2014, 04:08:53 pm
Does anyone know who make the model for Lowlander Sword in Battle for Europe?
Its really very nice sword. It will be great to see this beauty in cRPG.
(click to show/hide)

I don't sorry, try pming the guy who made the mod? (on taleworlds)
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Nordwolf on August 19, 2014, 07:46:38 pm
Really nice models Senni! I think textures can be made a bit more rugged  for the greatsword, especially for the leather texture.

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Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 19, 2014, 09:17:56 pm
Looks absolutely amazing, Senni! good work :D

mmmaybe you could design new leather armor or somt :3
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Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 19, 2014, 09:38:01 pm
Really nice models Senni! I think textures can be made a bit more rugged  for the greatsword, especially for the leather texture.

(click to show/hide)

Go for it! :D
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Screaming Idiot on August 19, 2014, 11:57:30 pm
I WANT THAT HEAVY GREATSWORD/ZWEIHANDER

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Artyem on August 20, 2014, 04:09:08 am
please give us the European Cav Sword
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: San on August 20, 2014, 08:59:02 pm
I will probably make a thread for the good new items that have been popping up recently on the balance forums. Better than doing nothing I guess and it's easier than asking about every little thing on irc.
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 21, 2014, 07:34:49 am
yea that would be great :3
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Nordwolf on August 21, 2014, 12:31:29 pm
Hey I've edited the leather for the greatsword a tad bit, maybe will mess with steel later.
http://p3d.in/KdPCB
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96841139/Senni_Heavygreatsword_edited.rar
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Senni__Ti on August 21, 2014, 02:05:58 pm
Hey I've edited the leather for the greatsword a tad bit, maybe will mess with steel later.
http://p3d.in/KdPCB
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96841139/Senni_Heavygreatsword_edited.rar

Nice :)

EDIT:
Placing links in OP if you don't mind :P

EDIT 2:
Thought something was odd, my version on p3d is missing textures on the crescent :O.
Very strange.

Did you change anything on the textures/UV map for the crescent bit Nordwolf?
As yours seems to work :P
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Nordwolf on August 25, 2014, 08:52:26 pm
Thought something was odd, my version on p3d is missing textures on the crescent :O.
Very strange.

Did you change anything on the textures/UV map for the crescent bit Nordwolf?
As yours seems to work :P
Not really, don't know why exactly didn't it work
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Senni__Ti on September 04, 2014, 08:43:58 pm
Made a guide awhile ago using free programs to make items, was asked to share, so I'm posting it here.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Item/Suggestion] European Cavalry sword & Heavy greatsword
Post by: Battlepriest on September 11, 2014, 04:43:29 am
cool