cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Timotheusthereal on May 16, 2011, 09:15:41 pm
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What the hell make you think that a mw bec cost 400k+ gold?
Give it some time and you have it at the cost of vanilla bec (heirlooming)! Of course its all matter of your patience
I personally don't think (10k) mw items so worthy of such EXORBITANT PRICES
An 10k vanilla thing should cost from 75k-100k when masterworked, it's reasonable I think. What do you think?
I got an idea to judge the prices of the masterworked items
Firstly we take the value of the buying price of the vanilla item and add the coveted value also the heirlooming time, so when its mw the price will range somewhere at these price
For an example:
+- 5k-vanilla + the coveted value = mw +- 50k (i.e. Mallet)
+- 10k-vanilla + the coveted value = mw +- 75 to 100k (i.e. Long Espada Eslavona)
+- 15k-vanilla + the coveted value = mw +- 100 to 150k (i.e. Heavy crossbow)
+- 20k-vanilla + the coveted value = mw +- 150 to 200k (i.e. Transistional armor)
+- 30k-vanilla + the coveted value = mw +- 200+k (i.e. Black armor, Warhorse etc)
That surely should add competition between sellers and in that way lower the prices for the poor ones with no noble background.
It also improves the reality of a medivalish world of which crpg in fact are.
What do you think? Is it good to have starting points to judge the price of an item for both sellers and buyers as well?
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Supply and demand. Do these words mean anything to you?
QQing about not being able to buy masterwork weapons for 100k isn't going to help much when there are plenty of people out there with more gold than they can ever spend.
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Supply and demand. Do these words mean anything to you?
Thats why I wrote the covet value, the more the demand of one item are the more the worth raise. Please read over again
Also why would I QQing about not being able to buy mw ones? I dont think by my generation numbers that i need to qqing for mw ones...
I think this is interesting about having start points of giving an item its price
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I had an offer of 1mil on my masterwork 1h sword, and I turned it down. This entire thread is pointless. :P
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I had an offer of 1mil on my masterwork 1h sword, and I turned it down. This entire thread is pointless. :P
Its your opnion, maybe your jealous because of that you wasted 1 mil gold on mw item when my thread can complety change the market (haha).
Also coming with such childish comments isnt needed here
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A quotation from a Roman guy that created a nice looking phrase for every goddamn evidence...
Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.
Publilius Syrus
(~100 BC)
http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/34596.html
Since we don't really know the "value" of gold, nobody knows what is the "value" (if such thing exists) of heirlooms. And that's exactly why this is economy in one of it's purest forms. We don't even have an average amount of gold per time unit. We have heirlooms/time though, but that's about it.
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Since we don't really know the "value" of gold, nobody knows what is the "value" (if such thing exists) of heirlooms.
Maybe thats why we need to start to work out the value of high wanted mw items and low wanted mw items?
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Heirlooms are the c-rpg equivalent of the Diamond market IRL.
They (the heirlooms) are common, but handed out in trade rather slow and sold for high prices simply because the buyers will pay the money for it.
Kind of like how Chicken is more expensive pound for pound then Turkey where I live, only because it is more "popular" and thus has an artificially inflated price.
Also, one can argue that the base cost of an item does not matter, as to an archer a triple heirloomed piece of light armor will be worth more to him then a triple black armor (for what use has he for the black armor?). Likewise a tripple loomed strongbow is worth more to a dedicated strongbow user then a triple longbow, and yet worthless to someone like GoretoothX who does not use bows nor has PD.
Also, a thousand gold is more precious to a heavy horseman character then to a ninja, so that too will effect the prices of certain items.
I do agree that prices are a little high at this time, but we shall see how those prices fluctuate.
I am content with hording my gold, even though I am a multi-gen archer, because I honestly am not suffering from any disadvantage from not participating in buying any 'loomed items, though I have sold a few things (100% of the things I wanted to sell actually) so I am more then content with how the market works right now.
EDIT: For clarity, consider that there is no way to enforce a "fair market" and things such as Kesh becoming an arms dealer is natural (gold and looms abundant considering Gen 91). The prices will slowly over the course of time naturally settle to reasonable amounts, as low-sought items will lower in price and common items will raise in price.
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I had an offer of 1mil on my masterwork 1h sword, and I turned it down. This entire thread is pointless. :P
Who offered that? I've got a MW 1h here... :twisted: :P
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You'll all bite your asses when the next patch with heirloom respec comes and you get exactly as many items as you have gens.
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Maybe thats why we need to start to work out the value of high wanted mw items and low wanted mw items?
If we had any mean of knowing in what direction we "have" to go with prices, I can virtually guarantee you they would already have changed.
BTW, all this reflection about prices has another large flaw : we can't make offers in gold to get heirloomed items. So you don't see how many gold the buyers want to pay. Only the sellers have "their word to say publicly" atm, so the prices shown are over the prices that are really involved in actual deals.
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I am not at all surprised to learn that the OP hails from a Scandinavian state.
Maybe we should take 60% of the heirlooms from the most active players and redistribute them to the least active players?
On a serious note, it would be easier for the market to set the value of heirlooms if there was an auction-style system for people trying to trade heirlooms for cash. But the fact is, the people with lots of heirlooms, typically already have more gold than they need. The Gen 4 guy might get excited about the possibility of trading +3 dmg on a weapon for enough cash to roll on a Plated Charger for the next 2 Gens, though.
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Also, a thousand gold is more precious to a heavy horseman character then to a ninja, so that too will effect the prices of certain items.
I do agree that prices are a little high at this time, but we shall see how those prices fluctuate.
I am content with hording my gold, even though I am a multi-gen archer, because I honestly am not suffering from any disadvantage from not participating in buying any 'loomed items, though I have sold a few things (100% of the things I wanted to sell actually) so I am more then content with how the market works right now.
1. Still theres a lot of ninjas and heavy horsemen characters who want to buy their respective item, so rate the prices aint bad
2. What happen if you reroll and suddently dont have the possibility of getting an uber geared polearm guy with strawhat because the price on mw strawhat is on 10 million gold?
Also, I want to thank you for coming with good arguments/input than the silly other ones
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On a serious note, it would be easier for the market to set the value of heirlooms if there was an auction-style system for people trying to trade heirlooms for cash. But the fact is, the people with lots of heirlooms, typically already have more gold than they need. The Gen 4 guy might get excited about the possibility of trading +3 dmg on a weapon for enough cash to roll on a Plated Charger for the next 2 Gens, though.
Isn't trading/selling items all about excitement, for now crpg doesn't have a working price based auction but the other mmorpg games. Surely in other mmorgps when you put an item on auction you need to put the price lower than the competitor if you want your item to be sold quickly (of course at the reasonable value).
Surely its not so exciting for a gen 4 guy to farm 500k gold and buy a mw item when he can, as you said "-roll on a plated charger for next 2 gens"
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The inflation and variable prices is part of the fun of trading in my opinion. Hunting the market for deals, barganing, buying out all items of 1 kind and sitting on them for a while to increase demand and so on is the exciting part. If all items are sold for standard prices, where is the fun in that?
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The inflation and variable prices is part of the fun of trading in my opinion. If all items are sold for standard prices, where is the fun in that?
Maybe of boasting like that
"-Guys, I sold my MW straw hat for 80k when that guy xxxxxx sold hims for 68k. Who's teh pro salesman?" on voip?
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Maybe thats why we need to start to work out the value of high wanted mw items and low wanted mw items?
There's nothing to work out, because it's 100% subjective. Personally, I'd never sell an heirloom that I chose myself and want to use, because the only possible use for the gold would be to speculate on the heirloom market. To me, the gold has no value. I have more than enough to support my play style.
There's simply no way to "work out value" or "set general prices" here. People with absurd amounts of gold from absurd amounts of grinding will continue to buy heirlooms at absurd prices regardless of what you have to say on the subject. :P
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When Auction have passed the beta stage do you guys want uber huge inflation @ la germany 1920 only because of FEW guys with abnormal masses of gold that actually rule the market!
The uber rich ones are few, and what I have seen mostly people with a overdose of gold have replied here (labeled in their opinion), what do you average guy with +-200k stash think about this?
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There's a point in stacking gold, I think. Afterall, you can play all the time in black plate if you have enough (I don't think anyone has that amount yet) gold and a stable gold revenue from speculating. With the artificial ups and downs in the values of objects created by patches, there's a big open door for speculation. A very basic strategy could be buying cheap heirloomed throwing weapons now and wait for them to be buffed to sell them when the buff happens and the prices are high. I think there will be no inflation on the long term, because upkeep is already a very good unlimited money sink, so keeping large amounts of gold unused probably isn't a problem.
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Supply and demand. Do these words mean anything to you?
QQing about not being able to buy masterwork weapons for 100k isn't going to help much when there are plenty of people out there with more gold than they can ever spend.
Gold star for this man. Prices are set by the community, through what they want and the availability of said items, real world economics apply here too.
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Gold star for this man. Prices are set by the community, through what they want and the availability of said items, real world economics apply here too.
Exactly, and the society should control the market? Not a few guys with 10+million cash
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Who pay 1mi for a heirloom?
Who get all this money? Take a ot of time to get it.
Maybe I spend too much money, I'm always poor.
I think is faster to get lvl 31 instead and heirloom your item yourself.
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There will be few people with too much gold. The few that have will spent it this week. Next week people wont sell their overpriced heirlooms. Following week it gets cheaper
Communists everywhere!
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Exactly, and the society should control the market? Not a few guys with 10+million cash
There are rich people, who you could say are the companies, the ones who trade, then there are the rest of the community, those people are the customers. As a customer you can set up a business with the assets that you have, it's not hard, I've made myself a tidy profit since I started trading and so have many members of the Caravan Guild.
Supply and demand, people want something, the price will rise, there is a lack of something, the price will rise and vice versa, I think it's called "customer sovreinty" where "The customer is king" but doesn't always apply.
You trade for what you think is going to sell well for the smallest price possible, naturally to sell it on for more, you use those profits to get yourself something else, there are bargains there, there are things that you can get and you might even wish to sell what you have in order to get more!
No matter what happens, people are on different levels, i've been playing for nearly a year now and there are other people who have played more than me. Your best bet if you want some form of stability is to have a governing body of independant people who do not trade on the markets who can say "you sold that for too much!" or "you're undercutting so-in-so by too much and thus you're creating a monopoly!".
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There will be few people with too much gold. The few that have will spent it this week. Next week people wont sell their overpriced heirlooms. Following week it gets cheaper
Communists everywhere!
Exciting to see which way the market take next 1-2 week
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Exactly, and the society should control the market? Not a few guys with 10+million cash
I give you tickets to a country you would like :
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/North_Korea/TravelGuide-North_Korea.html
The google map is hilarous BTW
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When Auction have passed the beta stage do you guys want uber huge inflation @ la germany 1920 only because of FEW guys with abnormal masses of gold that actually rule the market!
The uber rich ones are few, and what I have seen mostly people with a overdose of gold have replied here (labeled in their opinion), what do you average guy with +-200k stash think about this?
I am the average guy, I only have 140k as of right now. Doesn't change anything about what I've been saying, I don't expect to ever be rich enough to buy an heirloom.
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I give you tickets to a country you would like :
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/North_Korea/TravelGuide-North_Korea.html
The google map is hilarous BTW
I'm disappointed by your childish act, in fact every people controls the prices on our capitalist system. Im for capitalism, but not for such extreme things like that every mw must be at cost as 400k gold.
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I'm disappointed by your childish act, in fact every people controls the prices on our capitalist system. Im for capitalism, but not for such extreme things like that every mw must be at cost as 400k gold.
if people want to pay 400k, why shouldnt it cost that?
i have decided not to retire anymore, meaning that unles i buy it, i wont be able to get the items i need - therefore i will gladly pay 500k for ie. lordly mail mittens.
i have also sold alot of items for 500k+ and i've been offered up to 700k for ertain items... if people wnat to pay that much, why shouldnt they?
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I'm disappointed by your childish act, in fact every people controls the prices on our capitalist system. Im for capitalism, but not for such extreme things like that every mw must be at cost as 400k gold.
Is it really extreme or not ? I don't think so. Even if it is, well no problem, no one will buy heirlooms at 400k if they don't want to pay 400k for an heirloom. Trying to speed things up won't work.
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if people want to pay 400k, why shouldnt it cost that?
i have decided not to retire anymore, meaning that unles i buy it, i wont be able to get the items i need - therefore i will gladly pay 500k for ie. lordly mail mittens.
i have also sold alot of items for 500k+ and i've been offered up to 700k for ertain items... if people wnat to pay that much, why shouldnt they?
For now, when the super rich ones got their items and are satisfied. Still few will try to sell their mw items at the same price rate but there's suddenly only the poorer ones that long for mw items.
The prices will go down, sooner or later we will come to a balanced price system there we can use as starting points to judge the worth of an item based on covet/the purse of the buyers
But why not make starting points now? in that way the rich one can win on selling by trying make some items fixed at high prices
now you got it (perhaps)
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EDIT: For clarity, consider that there is no way to enforce a "fair market" and things such as Kesh becoming an arms dealer is natural (gold and looms abundant considering Gen 91). The prices will slowly over the course of time naturally settle to reasonable amounts, as low-sought items will lower in price and common items will raise in price.
I actually never traded any of my own heirlooms except the langes messer (also im gen 31 now), it was all gold purchases and resales and trades and basically taking heirlooms they couldnt offload and giving them the heirloom they were looking for and eventually finding someone who wanted that particualr heirloom. I actually am about to finish my last trade and then call it quits. Takes too much time for too little benefit (msot heirlooms make very little difference in stats now, +1 speed/+3 damage). Most of this trading was for getting items I could exchange for with my clanmates who had items I wanted while they wanted heirlooms they never had before.
I actually think things will start slowing down as more and more people get the exact heirlooms they want (with minor trading between clanmates of temorary exchanges as they retire and try new builds) and there is less point to looking as fewer and fewer people offering heirlooms for trade. WHy I think we should have a central chadz bank where you can buy x1 heirloom of any item for 350K, 700K for x2, 1million for x3 and you can sell the same for 50-70% of that purchase price. Create anice ceiling on prices and would actually get the desired outcome of the upkeep system, people would use lower end equipment to save up money for heirlooms. Many would spend 2 retirements worth accumulating gold for x1 heirloom point and so be able to masterwork in 2 gens time instead of 3. (I'm not planning on retirement myself, this seems fair system for lower gen players being able to get heirlooms).
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For now, when the super rich ones got their items and are satisfied. Still few will try to sell their mw items at the same price rate but there's suddenly only the poorer ones that long for mw items.
The prices will go down, sooner or later we will come to a balanced price system there we can use as starting points to judge the worth of an item based on covet/the purse of the buyers
But why not make starting points now? in that way the rich one can win on selling by trying make some items fixed at high prices
The prices are what they are, sorry. If agreed with your analysis then prices wouldn't be what they are now. You simply cant force prices anyway.
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The prices are what they are, sorry. If agreed with your analysis then prices wouldn't be what they are now. You simply cant force prices anyway.
No I cant simple force prices
Off-topish - But think, there may be items that are longed as Lamborghini Gallardo in future, and there are items wanted as a bottle of coca-cola!
That system may prove useful, forcing new players to throw away their life in order to become rich to buy a gallardo.
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(I'm not planning on retirement myself, this seems fair system for lower gen players being able to get heirlooms).
Lower as in lower Gen then yourself, I agree.
Lower as in the typical non ninja/archer (who already will own everything he or she wants at that point) who is less then gen 15? No so sure about that, most people can not save up that much money in this game with the average build if we examine the average player to afford to blow 700K on a masterwork of his or her choice.
Either way though, prices will fluctuate and I don't think we need a chadz controlled bank.
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Dear Timotheusthereal I will explain it by the old medieval song, sung by the old bard- 50 Gold:
"Peasant you's a window shopper
Mad at me, I think I know why
Peasant you's a window shopper
In the jewelery store, looking at shit you can't buy
Peasant you's a window shopper
In the dealership, trying to get a test drive
Peasant you's a window shopper
Mad as fuck when you see me ride by"
Deal with it
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The value of gold will go up with time eventually, once people realise how hard it is to restock their money.
But still, majority of people asking 1m gold for a masterwork item is a ripoff.
1 million gold is what you earn in 185 hours of playing leeching (naked, no repairs, having average x2 most of the time)
Since the above, within sanity is impossible, you will take around 370 hours to farm 1 million gold while playing (repairs, having average x2 most of the time)
Summing up, a person that actually plays the game will be able to retire 5 times (5 times from lvl 1 to 31) before getting 1 million gold.
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Dear Timotheusthereal I will explain it by the old medieval song, sung by the old bard- 50 Gold:
"Peasant you's a window shopper
Mad at me, I think I know why
Peasant you's a window shopper
In the jewelery store, looking at shit you can't buy
Peasant you's a window shopper
In the dealership, trying to get a test drive
Peasant you's a window shopper
Mad as fuck when you see me ride by"
Deal with it
Silly, what if I am millionaire?
tss
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Mentally compromised 15yo millionaires from Sweden? There aren't that many.
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The amount of money is probably increasing. Even more now that you can spend money on heirlooms.. So my bet is that prices will rise, not go down.. Also the amount of transactions will go steadily down and then stable, since there are a surplus of previously untradable heirlooms out now.
So.. inflation + less supply = Higher prices..
+ The factor that some smart people already knows this, and invest buying heirlooms like crazy. Speculation might influence the market atm..
Of course some people try to talk down the market like OP so they can buy stuff for investment.
- Regards from a buyer of 1x or more heirloomed snowflakes/shurikens.. Paying well! Contact me if you have some..
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1 million gold is what you earn in 185 hours of playing leeching (naked, no repairs, having average x2 most of the time)
Since the above, within sanity is impossible, you will take around 370 hours to farm 1 million gold while playing (repairs, having average x2 most of the time)
Summing up, a person that actually plays the game will be able to retire 5 times (5 times from lvl 1 to 31) before getting 1 million gold.
That's all well and good, but would you kindly explain to me the great advantage of having 1 million gold in the first place, unless you play heavy cavalry or full plate infantry?
Also, my analysis on the future of the market is largely the same as Thomek's.
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That's all well and good, but would you kindly explain to me the great advantage of having 1 million gold in the first place, unless you play heavy cavalry or full plate infantry?
Indeed it is so much gold that you could ride around in your most expensive gear for a long long time.
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And if the only gear you really want to use all the time is cheap enough to generate a steady profit, as is the case for many, many players? :P
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And by the way on a slightly different matter, if people stick to trading heirloom for heirloom and we fail to establish gold as currency - we will end up with a market in which it takes a load of time to even find a person interested. Like what we had a couple of thousands years ago perhaps?
cRPG market - 3000 years ago...
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'Ooh me has fish, I wants triple heirloom cheese'
'Uh me got cheese but me want stones!'
'I wants fish, I has tools'
...
Didn't change much since then
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And by the way on a slightly different matter, if people stick to trading heirloom for heirloom and we fail to establish gold as currency - we will end up with a market in which it takes a load of time to even find a person interested. Like what we had a couple of thousands years ago perhaps?
cRPG market - 3000 years ago...
...
'Ooh me has fish, I wants triple heirloom cheese'
'Uh me got cheese but me want stones!'
'I wants fish, I has tools'
...
Didn't change much since then
Well that's the point of gold, but I think you know it :D
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What really need is the ability to share gold across chars. Then flogging some loomed nonsense and getting a fat cash bonus will become a more common a fare and more useful IMO. Being able to through 400k into a new charcter to test it out by flogging some loomed middle of the road armour sounds pretty good to me.
I still have yet to ever rid a horse, I use pols and so have a deep burning hatred of HORSES! but would none the less like to try them but alas my tank, he is too fat.
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Trying to set up some price ceiling is bullshit, we want free market! With ceilings i would never be able to make the 2 million i made, buy every gear i wanted, non-loomed (not that big difference tbh), i can play in full plate if i want till i stop with warband probably.
When i start to run out of money, which i doubt, ill just retire and sell a +1 kuyak for 350k again :D
Anyways, OP, i think you would better spend ur time ingame farming money than trying to make others sell looms for cheap, not to speak that you can perfectly well play without looms aswell...