cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Adalwulf on February 21, 2014, 08:35:44 pm
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I feel like my Ranseur is broken, my stabs glance and when I miss the target it hits...but when I aim at him it misses or it glances...anyone else have this problem?
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I feel like my Ranseur is broken, my stabs glance and when I miss the target it hits...but when I aim at him it misses or it glances...anyone else have this problem?
It's not just polearms, the most effective method for stabbing with any type of weapon is to deliberately miss your target, then drag the tip of your weapon into them for full damage. It looks stupid, but presumably we're stuck with this particular deficiency of the warband engine.
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Tydeus is a crazyman.
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The main problem with the pole thrust, is that unlike the others, 100% of the part of the animation that has the character pulling back his arms, getting ready for the thrust, falls in the ready animation. Meaning right after you release your left mouse button, the character begins bringing his arms forward. Why's this matter? It adds ambiguity. It makes it hard for both the user and the opponent, to figure out where exactly the sweetspots are located. Unfortunately, fixing this is actually a fair bit of work, so my previous edit to the animation was simply slowing down when, and how fast, the character would push his arms forward.
I'll be adjusting the hoplite animation, as it really doesn't fit the sweetspots at all. When I do this, I'll probably try to readjust the polearm animation appropriately as well.
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or: put it all back to native stats and we see how bad it is?
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or: put it all back to native stats and we see how bad it is?
Were you playing circa 2010-2011? Then you remember "how bad it is". 360 degree roflcopter pikemen/greatsword lolstabbers, 1h stab glanced even on naked guys, etc.
Stab still has its problems right now, but at least it's more balanced between all weapon types than it's ever been.
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I had a lot of difficulty playing as a hoplite and I couldn't really figure out what made me glance and what didn't, but I had occasions where I would literally glance 15 stab attempts in a row. Still topped the scoreboard because long ass spear + a shield is simply the best battle set up but it felt awkward and inconsistent. With the no polestagger change and the weird stabs getting charged by anyone made me completely unable to fight back, which I hate, but I guess that is only good.
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I think hoplites are a little borked right now. Even with a successful stab, your opponent is now facehugging you. Not so bad with most hoplite weapons since you can put away the shield, but the weapons that don't perform well without shield are a lot worse. I think a slightly reduction in the hoplite speed penalty and tweaking of animation specifically for hoplites should happen.
Long spear/pike weapons also have a bit of an identity crisis with the shorter polearms rearing and the stagger removal. Shorter, faster polearms are looking to be more useful.
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I find that 1h stab now is glancing more than it was previously.
Perhaps I am still getting used to the changes, but stabs that would clearly have landed in the past are no longer working.
Examples include:
Anyone back peddaling / moving away from you
Near the end of the animation hits are just causing a stoppage
That's what I have noticed so far, a few other sktechy stabs the last few days but it is tough to test in battle.
I have powerstrike 5 and use a MW Short Arming Sword
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Everything should glance more with thrusts, that's the whole point of narrowing the sweetspots. It makes it so you can't just close your eyes, flail your mouse, and expect to get a high damage thrust in return. You do actually have to use good timing now. If not everyone is landing perfectly timed thrusts all the time, then I'd say mission accomplished, as they were far too easy to begin with. It was a problem that thrusts were the easiest attack to land for any class.
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The main problem with the pole thrust, is that unlike the others, 100% of the part of the animation that has the character pulling back his arms, getting ready for the thrust, falls in the ready animation. Meaning right after you release your left mouse button, the character begins bringing his arms forward. Why's this matter? It adds ambiguity. It makes it hard for both the user and the opponent, to figure out where exactly the sweetspots are located. Unfortunately, fixing this is actually a fair bit of work, so my previous edit to the animation was simply slowing down when, and how fast, the character would push his arms forward.
I'll be adjusting the hoplite animation, as it really doesn't fit the sweetspots at all. When I do this, I'll probably try to readjust the polearm animation appropriately as well.
.....fascinating....maybe I'm not crazy afterall.
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Everything should glance more with thrusts, that's the whole point of narrowing the sweetspots. It makes it so you can't just close your eyes, flail your mouse, and expect to get a high damage thrust in return. You do actually have to use good timing now. If not everyone is landing perfectly timed thrusts all the time, then I'd say mission accomplished, as they were far too easy to begin with. It was a problem that thrusts were the easiest attack to land for any class.
Just like any change it takes a bit of getting used too.
I lived with the original 1h stab from native for ages, I can adjust to this new one.
Does powerstrike still help these thresholds for stabs?
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Does powerstrike still help these thresholds for stabs?
While it doesn't affect the duration of the 100% sweetspot, it will affect how much of the partial damage sweetspots can effectively be used. As far as how much of an effect PS can actually have here, is debatable.
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I still think the penalty for using thrusts should be different. Right now it's either you get lucky and don't bounce either you don't and your enemy gets a free hit. It's bad because it depends on armor more than anything else. Secondly, it's bad because there's plenty of room to make swings better, and this room isn't being used.
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Long spear/pike weapons also have a bit of an identity crisis with the shorter polearms rearing and the stagger removal. Shorter, faster polearms are looking to be more useful.
Not much of identity crisis, in NA we maybe have 2 or 3 dedicated LS/pikers. The weapon still fulfills its role as a support weapon with extended reach. While the other polearms being able to rear horses makes the LS/Pike slightly less attractive, we have to be honest here, a extremely small number of people even want to use the LS/Pike and were probably going to use the other polearms anyway.
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Not entirely sure about the polestab, but the hoplite stab definitely has a new learning curve since the recent patches, but I wouldn't say it's too bad off, at least for an agi build.
Using a hoplite, I had to learn how to put more distance after hitting an opponent, since the opponent continues to move. This usually means running past an enemy if he's running directly at me or strafing away from the enemy. I was able to get most hoplite stabs in through proper strafing and stabbing, although the last 1/3 of its reach is definitely not usable. Once the animations are fixed, I think it would be an interesting playstyle to master under the new system.
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It feels pretty bad right now. I've been using a +3 shortened spear and it's pretty rough landing a stab right now. Last night there was a pack of throwing lance guys on last night and they kept bouncing their stabs on me. I only wear 49 body armor between gloves and shirt, this combined with the flat nerf to stab delay puts polearms in a bad spot, when it was relatively obvious that 1h needed the most delay, then 2h and then polearm. So, you've effectively ruined the polearm's main strength and like kafein said it's just been left with horrible swings. To top things off, my teammates seem to be walking into my backswings a lot, so I basically can't do anything, and now I'm angry I made a pole/arm thrower hybrid. Hell, I've been more effective meleeing with my HTA than actually throwing them or using a weapon I actually have WPF in.
The one good part of this is that long spears and pikes are a lot less wonky now.
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Doesn't seem to me like any polearms besides the longspear and pike really took any sort of a major hit with the changes. Just got an elegant poleaxe and I don't have any sort of glance issues with the stab, and especially not with my 135 length spear. Just got a long awlpike as well and the stabs seem fine, if slightly more difficult to land.
The longspear seemed so bad after the change that I traded it away as soon as I could for the long awlpike. The change to kicks actually made as much of a difference as the change to the stab, though.
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My poor poor long spear now gather dust most of the time :(