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Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: CrazyCracka420 on February 04, 2014, 09:03:32 pm

Title: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 04, 2014, 09:03:32 pm
In the Blue corner, Bill Nye the science guy fighting for team evolution!
In the Red corner, Ken Ham the nut job, fighting for team creationism!

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/0203/Bill-Nye-vs.-Ken-Ham-Should-scientists-bother-debating-creationists-video

As much as I want to watch this tonight, I think I agree with the article and some scientists saying this lends credence to the creationism movement by even debating with them.

Creationism is not a scientific theory. It's not based on observations or experiments. If you want to teach it in a religion class, go right ahead. But it does not have any place in a science class.

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Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: [ptx] on February 04, 2014, 09:15:36 pm
Definitely a bad idea to even acknowledge that as something worth debating against. All i can see happening is the creationist guy attempting to drag Bill Nye down to his own level of spouting stuff.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Leesin on February 04, 2014, 09:26:59 pm
I don't see the point in debating with an adult who thinks Fairy Tales are real, if they still believe in imaginary friends at that age then it's obvious it's not even worth talking to them, let alone giving them a window to preach their utter bullshit.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: [ptx] on February 04, 2014, 09:30:21 pm
On another note:
Quote
And almost 33 percent Americans believe in this theory. According to a Pew Research Center analysis published in December last year, six in ten Americans (60 percent) said that “humans and other living things have evolved over time,” while a third (33 percent) rejected the idea of evolution, saying that “humans and other living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time.”
Are you for fucking real?

A whole fucking third of Americans are actually that dumb? As much as one can say that there's dumbfucks in every country... :|
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Nightmare798 on February 04, 2014, 09:35:25 pm
On another note:Are you for fucking real?

A whole fucking third of Americans are actually that dumb? As much as one can say that there's dumbfucks in every country... :|

I wouldnt be so surprised if I were you. It is America we are talking about here.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Rumblood on February 05, 2014, 12:00:09 am
Here is what is dumb. People who think Evolution and Creationism are mutually exclusive.

Even dumber, people who think Creationism means the Old Testament.

Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Umbra on February 05, 2014, 12:18:56 am
Thats the argument i hear in more sensible Creationists. That 7 days is just a metaphor and since time is meningless to an omnipotent being that could mean millions of years of evolution.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: zagibu on February 05, 2014, 12:36:47 am
Please not this again. Keep your beliefs and non-beliefs at home, where they belong.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Rumblood on February 05, 2014, 12:57:03 am
Thats the argument i hear in more sensible Creationists. That 7 days is just a metaphor and since time is meningless to an omnipotent being that could mean millions of years of evolution.

Pfft. Creationism doesn't mean the Torah, the Tawrat, or the Old Testament. That is just Abrahamic religions trying once again to claim the sole authority over the concept of a god.

Creationism simply means the universe was planned and made into reality by some being, whether of it or outside of it is irrelevant, and whether it would visit the most infinitesimal part of it like a planet is irrelevant. If it weren't for Christians trying to steal an entirely plausible idea to mean what is written in their Bible, there would be very little controversy over it all. I just wish they would shut the hell up about it. Even if there was a Creator, it has very little chance of being the sky fairy in their cracked fairy tales mixed with history.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: zagibu on February 05, 2014, 01:00:32 am
Pfft. Creationism doesn't mean the Torah, the Tawrat, or the Old Testament. That is just Abrahamic religions trying once again to claim the sole authority over the concept of a god.

Creationism simply means the universe was planned and made into reality by some being, whether of it or outside of it is irrelevant, and whether it would visit the most infinitesimal part of it like a planet is irrelevant. If it weren't for Christians trying to steal an entirely plausible idea to mean what is written in their Bible, there would be very little controversy over it all. I just wish they would shut the hell up about it. Even if there was a Creator, it has very little chance of being the sky fairy in their cracked fairy tales mixed with history.

Highlighted the best parts of your speech.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Tyefire on February 05, 2014, 02:24:49 am
I don't believe in evolution or creationism. I believe in the only trusted religion known to man. Scientology
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Bob_Ross on February 05, 2014, 02:53:08 am
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(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Clockworkkiller on February 05, 2014, 03:03:15 am
holy fuck not this shit again


can we just rename the offtopic section to "religious debates" or something

Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 05, 2014, 02:11:28 pm
Just watched it. That was hilarious.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: chadz on February 05, 2014, 02:23:53 pm
So, how was the debate? Who won, is the topic finally settled?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 05, 2014, 02:52:32 pm
Just watched it. That was hilarious.

Highlights?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 05, 2014, 03:56:31 pm
Basically Nye saying science stuff, and the other guy countering his arguments with "There's this book. It answers that question.". I guess you all can guess which book that is.

At the end of the day the creationist guy couldn't prove anything and spent his entire time trying to make a distinction between "Observational science" and "Historical science". In his mind this "Historical science" can never be proven since it deals with things that have already happened and therefore can not be observed.

While Nye's argument was that the natural laws applied in the past the same way they apply in the present.

A fun part was when Nye pointed out that there are trees older than Earth according young earth theory. And when icedrilling in antarctica has uncovered atmosphere that's 680 000 years old. The counter arguments were that it's not necessarily true because he can't observe that it's true and therefore he has belief that it's true and therefore the Bible is equally likely.

The final question was: "What is the one thing more than anything else upon which you base your belief?"

Ham's answer started with: "There is a book called the Bible....."
Nye's answer started with: "As my old professor Carl Sagan said so often. When you're in love you want to tell the world. And I base my belief on the information and process that we call science......"

Pretty much summarized the entire debate. Unfortunately a large part of the debate was so regulated they didn't get the opportunity to actually debate against eachothers points and were in fact only given time to assert their positions and evidence for them before moving on to the next topic.

Nye pretty much discredited Ham's entire theory that Noah's Ark contained all creatures on the planet and the landed in the Middle East on a mountain when Nye pointed out that Australia is filled with animals that exist nowhere else. The creationist theory assumed that they had walked from the middle east through Asia and then over a land bridge to Australia. Nye pointed out that there should be evidence all over Asia of kangaroos moving to Australia and there should be clear evidence of a land bridge connecting them.

I mean, it was ridiculous and hilariously absurd at some points.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 05, 2014, 04:20:53 pm
I didn't watch it, figured it would pretty much be what I already expected.  I plan on watching some highlights or at least the 5 minute back and forth session.  I basically didn't want to watch the creationist talk for 30 minutes, and had no need to hear Bill's arguments (aside from entertainment). 

Found this image while cleaning up mywork computer: 
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Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 05, 2014, 05:09:23 pm
Watching it now; same old Creationist crap. It is amazing to me how these people can be professional anti-Evolutionarists and STILL have a worse understanding of evolution than you'd expect a grade school kid to have. They are just utterly incapable of understanding how evolution works and why changes in beaks are evidence for evolution, and the old favorite of Creationists is "if evolution is true, how come humans don't ever give birth to monkeys????"
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 05, 2014, 06:38:08 pm
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Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on February 05, 2014, 07:15:42 pm
The Sunset Limited
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1510938/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1510938/)

You can watch it for free on youtube now :)


One of my favorite religion-related movies. There is nothing about evolution, but it's really good. On my personal scale of goodness of course :)
10/10 Armpit Stars
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 05, 2014, 07:32:36 pm
You can watch it for free on youtube now :)


One of my favorite religion-related movies. There is nothing about evolution, but it's really good. On my personal scale of goodness of course :)
10/10 Armpit Stars

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Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: the real god emperor on February 05, 2014, 07:42:02 pm
Creationism and most of the religion related stuff is out of science true , but religions sent by God, if you re a believer. God is above all sciences , so its normal to believers.For me , I think evolution makes sense, but i don't think human race evolved from a pink ass monkey shit.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 05, 2014, 07:54:05 pm
God didn't write the bible or any other religious texts.  How do you know that one person's claims of what God told him are accurate, and someone else's are not?  What gives someone credibility, but another person is just a cult leader who has 100s of people drink cyanide laced Kool-Aid? 
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 05, 2014, 08:15:42 pm
Creationism and most of the religion related stuff is out of science true , but religions sent by God, if you re a believer. God is above all sciences , so its normal to believers.For me , I think evolution makes sense, but i don't think human race evolved from a pink ass monkey shit.
Nobody thinks the human race evolved from "a pink ass monkey shit", so....
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 05, 2014, 09:07:11 pm
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/seven-evolutionary-reasons-people-deny-evolution
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: zagibu on February 05, 2014, 10:07:09 pm
I have a question for the non-believers among you:

If god is unreal, what about quake and half-life?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: chadz on February 05, 2014, 10:09:19 pm
If god knows he is the highest being of the universe, does that make him an atheist?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: SixThumbs on February 05, 2014, 10:16:12 pm
Was Jesus crying out on the cross "why have you forsaken me, father?" because he himself questioned Him?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Spurdospera on February 05, 2014, 10:25:46 pm
If God is omnipotent being, can he/she make a rock so heavy that it cannot be lifted even by God him/herself?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 05, 2014, 10:41:07 pm
Quote from: God
"I'm going to create man and woman with original sin.  Then I'm going to impregnate a woman, with myself as her child, so that I can be born.  I will then kill myself, as a sacrifice to myself, to save you from the sin I originally condemned you to."

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Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Kafein on February 05, 2014, 11:28:33 pm
It feels like Nye was pitted against an absolute straw man, but you got to start somewhere right? Proving that young earth theories are absurd is... absurdly easy. I mean, Nye doesn't even begin to touch on the body of evidence here.

And as expected, Ken Ham's argument against evolution is the typical "intelligent design" way of looking at coherent and predictive scientific work and basically saying "But it happened in the past, you have no way to prove anything about the past". Which would of course require extremely unlikely unfalsifiable and unpredictive alternative explanations. It's quite a remarkable defense from a biblical literalist though. It just comes down to the essence of faith : I can believe in the existence of an undetectable teapot behind the Moon and you can't prove it's not there because the teapot is not detectable. To state that the world was created 6000 years ago is just the same thing but more elaborate and more difficult to justify.

I mean it's a defense that is technically true because you don't have accounts of the past, but if you take that defense as valid to dismiss all the body of scientific work that talks about the past, then you might as well dismiss everything in science because there are equally convincing theories to doubt about "obvervational science". This world view makes as much sense as saying "everything is an illusion", and the correct response to that is that it doesn't matter, science is defined by what works. This debate was pretty pointless, because it all comes down to discussing the nature of unfalsifiable theories and Ken Ham playing devil's advocate with the evidence.

Also Ken Ham obviously doesn't understand the nature of mathematical truths (such as the laws of logic he keeps on referring to). Mathematical truths would be true even if no physical world existed, and apparently to him without God it would be impossible to have logic.

I have a question for the non-believers among you:

If god is unreal, what about quake and half-life?

Well I personally own Unreal (the very first one) and I think it is the best single player FPS I ever played. That including good modern FPS like Metro.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Jeade on February 06, 2014, 01:18:09 am
I'm surprised no one linked the debate.
Just now starting to watch it, so I'll post it here if anyone else is late to this party:

Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Molly on February 06, 2014, 10:13:40 am
Saw the topic and was about to write "What's there to debate?" and then noticed that I am kinda late to the party... :(
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 06, 2014, 04:26:34 pm
This is what the creation museum links to, to describe dinosaurs, how they came to be, and how they became buried in the ground. 

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/what-happened-to-the-dinosaurs

It's as full blown bat-shit crazy as you would have expected.  How the fuck do these people actually know that the different writers that are included in the bible are speaking the word of God?  Even if there is a God, these people are 100% positive that all the works in the bible are the word of God.  That's some pretty amazing copy/paste skills for whoever put the bible together to know who was really speaking the word of God, and who was a crazy cult leader.

Quote
Representatives of all the kinds of air-breathing land animals, including the dinosaur kinds, went aboard Noah’s Ark. All those left outside the Ark died in the cataclysmic circumstances of the Flood, and many of their remains became fossils.

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After the Flood, around 4,300 years ago, the remnant of the land animals, including dinosaurs, came off the Ark and lived in the present world, along with people. Because of sin, the judgments of the Curse and the Flood have greatly changed earth. Post-Flood climatic change, lack of food, disease, and man’s activities caused many types of animals to become extinct. The dinosaurs, like many other creatures, died out. Why the big mystery about dinosaurs? (emphasis mine)

Why Such Different Views?

How can there be such totally different explanations for dinosaurs? Whether one is an evolutionist or accepts the Bible’s account of history, the evidence for dinosaurs is the same. All scientists have the same facts—they have the same world, the same fossils, the same living creatures, the same universe.

If the “facts” are the same, then how can the explanations be so different? The reason is that scientists have only the present—dinosaur fossils exist only in the present—but scientists are trying to connect the fossils in the present to the past. They ask, “What happened in history to bring dinosaurs into existence, wipe them out, and leave many of them fossilized?”4

The science that addresses such issues is known as historical or origins science, and it differs from the operational science that gives us computers, inexpensive food, space exploration, electricity, and the like. Origins science deals with the past, which is not accessible to direct experimentation, whereas operational science deals with how the world works in the here and now, which, of course, is open to repeatable experiments. Because of difficulties in reconstructing the past, those who study fossils (paleontologists) have diverse views on dinosaurs.5 As has been said, “Paleontology (the study of fossils) is much like politics: passions run high, and it’s easy to draw very different conclusions from the same set of facts.”6

OH really?  Shall we get some paleontologists' views of the Creation Museum?

http://phys.org/news165555744.html

Exerpt:

Quote
For a group of paleontologists, a tour of the Creation Museum seemed like a great tongue-in-cheek way to cap off a serious conference.

But while there were a few laughs and some clowning for the camera, most left more offended than amused by the frightening way in which evolution -- and their life's work -- was attacked.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Prinz_Karl on February 06, 2014, 04:33:19 pm
My opinion to this: Of course evolutionary theorie is absolutely correct and logical, anyone denying it doesn't want to look it up closely or is ignorant. But this doesn't give you the right to put the Bible away as trash. The bible is no science book after all but a spritual/moral book. By the way there are many priests who also believe in evolutionary theorie.

Yeah I'm kind of offtopic I realised but anyway.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 06, 2014, 04:36:18 pm
No, I'd never throw away a book in the trash.

However, that doesn't mean I won't disagree with a huge part of the book, even when it comes down to morality.

Anyway, Bertrand Russel is one of my favourites. He's an agnostic atheist and one I mostly agree with. If you're interested in his views:

Here's his message to us:
(click to show/hide)

And here's a lecture on why wasn't a Christian:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: BASNAK on February 06, 2014, 04:37:04 pm
I watched both the 30 minute speeches and some rebutals etc. I have to say that the Australian guy (even tho I dont agree with him) was much better at speaking and conveying his message. It pretty much looked like the creationists had prepared for a very long time. Bill Nye also did a good job but he was not as good at being pedagogical. His evidence wrecked the creationists however. Maybe he didn't prepare as much as the creationists.

If you're a person with little knowledge in Science you wouldn't understand much of what Bill Nye was trying to convey, and understand more from the Australian guy. Like when speaking about the icecores drilled from Antarctica that are 800.000 years old the Australian guy clearly didn't understand jackshit  about how it works (but acting like he knows), and Bill Nye didn't really explain how it does either.  Just that it's evidence. The huge layers of glacier ice show clear layerborders inbetween summer and winter, and you can count backwards in time (summer + winter = 1 year) layer for layer back to approx 800.000 years  and also measure the atmosphere by looking at the gas bubbles stuck in there.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 06, 2014, 04:38:43 pm
I'm not saying the bible is trash, I'm wondering how you know that the words in the bible are "the word of God"?  It seems amazing to me that some people can channel the words of God into writing, and even more miraculous that someone came along and correctly compiled the writings of people who channeled the word of God into text.  How do you know there are no false prophets in the bible (or that all are false prophets)? 

Good thing those people who put the bible together didn't accidentally get the writings from a lunatic who claimed to be speaking the word of God.   Like David Koresh, or Jim Jones, Sun Myung Moon or Marshall Applewhite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon <---(they leave out the part about having sex with him to cleanse your body and soul)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Applewhite
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 06, 2014, 04:51:54 pm
My opinion to this: Of course evolutionary theorie is absolutely correct and logical, anyone denying it doesn't want to look it up closely or is ignorant. But this doesn't give you the right to put the Bible away as trash. The bible is no science book after all but a spritual/moral book. By the way there are many priests who also believe in evolutionary theorie.

Yeah I'm kind of offtopic I realised but anyway.
The Bible is about as good a moral book as Mein Kampf. Seriously.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Turkhammer on February 06, 2014, 05:15:10 pm
What do you think?  It was on the internets, nobody wins.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Swaggart on February 06, 2014, 05:55:21 pm
No, I'd never throw away a book in the trash.

I never understood this line of thought. We are not living in the 11th century where only a handful of books exist and even fewer with the ability to read them. Any crackhead can get a computer, a printer and make a book - they're about as special these days (especially with digital media) as the hairs on my chode.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 06, 2014, 06:01:24 pm
http://lesswrong.com/lw/kq/fake_justification/
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 06, 2014, 06:06:48 pm
Cool website (lesswrong.com) never been there before (because I've never been wrong)  8-)
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Sir_Hans on February 07, 2014, 06:22:00 am
All Ken Ham did was show a few videos of PHD scientists who agree with him and then point to the bible for the rest of the debate.

Bill Nye brought fourth scientific evidence and Ken Ham rebuttles with "The Bible is the most foolproof evidence in the history of mankind". That's pretty much the entire debate in one sentence.

I still need to finish watching the last half hour to hour or so, but I don't know if I will. As far as debates go, it's not really interesting when one side just points to the bible and says that is the proof, every step of the way. But I guess that's what I should expect from the president of that ridiculous museum.

Thought I will say, It would probably be pretty entertaining to get high as fuck and go through that museum with a few friends just for the constant lols.



I do think it's funny how some of the religious think it is completely absurd that matter was always around (pre-big bang) and that nothing created it. But then they go on to believe that God has always been around and nothing created him.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: KingBread on February 07, 2014, 10:13:51 am
We have a strong right wing movement in Poland and they are CRAZY about "religious" stuff like abortions, sex, homosexuality, gender (nobody knows what is it we kinda reffer to it like to a Yeti)<and i have no idea why they think those are religious problems>  but not even them claims that Creationism is a way to educate. I mean there are people amongs them that consider this as a possibility but in main flow they are put on a side. So to me reading this articles is like going to whole new level of idiotic denial of reality. And i'm kinda scared that one day this will be a case here also and i will have possibility to go to Polish Creationism Museum and they will tell me that i could mount a triceratops and shot lazors if i were born a bit earlier. (which is kind of inspiring but still...)
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 07, 2014, 04:49:20 pm
A triceratops?  You surely meant to say a Jesus Horse, right?

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Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Rumblood on February 08, 2014, 03:17:33 am
Thought I will say, It would probably be pretty entertaining to get high as fuck and go through that museum with a few friends just for the constant lols.

I live about hour away from it and have driven past a few times, always thinking maybe it would be lark to look inside. But then I decide, fuck those guys. I'm not giving them a penny, even for a lark.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Sir_Hans on February 08, 2014, 06:28:32 am
I live about hour away from it and have driven past a few times, always thinking maybe it would be lark to look inside. But then I decide, fuck those guys. I'm not giving them a penny, even for a lark.

That's a good point lol  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Garond_PL on February 08, 2014, 08:17:18 am
We have a strong right wing movement in Poland and they are CRAZY about "religious" stuff like abortions, sex, homosexuality, gender (nobody knows what is it we kinda reffer to it like to a Yeti)<and i have no idea why they think those are religious problems>  but not even them claims that Creationism is a way to educate. I mean there are people amongs them that consider this as a possibility but in main flow they are put on a side. So to me reading this articles is like going to whole new level of idiotic denial of reality. And i'm kinda scared that one day this will be a case here also and i will have possibility to go to Polish Creationism Museum and they will tell me that i could mount a triceratops and shot lazors if i were born a bit earlier. (which is kind of inspiring but still...)

Non avian dinosaurs didnt die 65 milions years ago. Some of them are still alive (humanity discovered ONLY 54% of Earth). Loch Ness monster etc. Im evolutionist btw
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 08, 2014, 09:01:24 am
What does a fictional monster have to do with anything?
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Garond_PL on February 08, 2014, 01:50:54 pm
Only 54% of Earth is discovered so in not discovered part of our planet may be something strange. Kraken = Architeuthis dux
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 08, 2014, 01:55:24 pm
That's not how it works. Just because a large portion of the seas (a very hostile environment where we're likely to find extremely small and simple creatures as opposed to swimming T-rexes) is still unexplored doesn't mean that, and I quote, "some of them (dinosaurs) are still alive."
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Spurdospera on February 08, 2014, 02:26:37 pm
Not all dinosaurs died, birds are still around.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Thomek on February 10, 2014, 01:56:36 am
Xant is still around.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 10, 2014, 02:44:50 am
Yes, a direct descendant of velociraptor.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 11, 2014, 11:06:42 pm
Bill Nye excerpts from the debate.

Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 12, 2014, 01:24:10 am
Oh god, it's one of those videos.


*slow, dramatic music*
*random images of people, animals and stars*
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Thomek on February 12, 2014, 01:48:43 am
ah come on.. it's well made, although rather without content other than what questions it evokes in the viewer..
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 12, 2014, 01:54:02 am
And the guy who made the video is a musician, so his part is actually in making the music.

He makes a bunch of science related music, hence his series Symphony of Science. Here's an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZGINaRUEkU
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 12, 2014, 02:26:09 am
It is well made, but trying to make it seem deeper and more profound by adding dramatic music and images of people and things is gay.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Chosen1 on February 12, 2014, 04:30:14 am
I found this article on infowars: http://www.infowars.com/fact-check-did-bill-nye-tell-a-huge-lie-about-the-fossil-layers/

Basically saying that there have been fossils of modern animals found with dinosaur fossils and that Evolution is incorrect when it says all organisms evolved chronologically.

Any thoughts or counter-arguments? I'm not picking sides, I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on February 12, 2014, 06:38:25 am
Quote
If Bill Nye wants to believe in the theory of evolution that is his choice.  But he should quit calling it “science”.  Those that choose to believe in the theory of evolution are choosing to have blind faith in an ancient pagan religious philosophy despite what the scientific evidence actually demonstrates.

Pffthahahahaha.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 12, 2014, 07:04:11 am
I found this article on infowars: http://www.infowars.com/fact-check-did-bill-nye-tell-a-huge-lie-about-the-fossil-layers/

Basically saying that there have been fossils of modern animals found with dinosaur fossils and that Evolution is incorrect when it says all organisms evolved chronologically.

Any thoughts or counter-arguments? I'm not picking sides, I'm just curious.
All of the sources link to creation.com, sounds legit
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: BASNAK on February 12, 2014, 03:41:56 pm

gg dirty science believers
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: KingBread on February 13, 2014, 12:40:43 pm
I found this article on infowars: http://www.infowars.com/fact-check-did-bill-nye-tell-a-huge-lie-about-the-fossil-layers/

Basically saying that there have been fossils of modern animals found with dinosaur fossils and that Evolution is incorrect when it says all organisms evolved chronologically.

Any thoughts or counter-arguments? I'm not picking sides, I'm just curious.
Basically by not taking sides you take side of crationism cos you think they are equally right. While its not, its comparing flinstones lightbulb with insects inside to a electricity and saying "im not taking sides but in flinstones lighbulbs works on insects"
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Kafein on February 13, 2014, 01:59:51 pm
Oh god, it's one of those videos.


*slow, dramatic music*
*random images of people, animals and stars*

So much of this
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Rumblood on February 14, 2014, 01:34:24 am
I found this article on infowars: http://www.infowars.com/fact-check-did-bill-nye-tell-a-huge-lie-about-the-fossil-layers/

Basically saying that there have been fossils of modern animals found with dinosaur fossils and that Evolution is incorrect when it says all organisms evolved chronologically.

Any thoughts or counter-arguments? I'm not picking sides, I'm just curious.

The words "modern" and "fossil" put together should have clued you in...
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: SixThumbs on February 14, 2014, 01:39:46 am
You're basically a modern fossil.  :P
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Osiris on February 14, 2014, 01:53:39 am
Read a bit of that :D They seem to suggest that because there are mammal fossils that its all a lie cuz mammals are not dinosaurs?

Then i read further

Quote
Where did the atoms that made up the Big Bang come from? Nye has no idea. Where did man’s consciousness come from? Nye has no idea. How can matter produce life? Nye has absolutely no idea. This surely is all one needs to know to recognize the utter bankruptcy of the theory of evolution.

and

Quote
In the end, by making a ridiculous spectacle of himself and mocking Christianity, Bill Nye is actually fulfilling Bible prophecy.  The following was written nearly 2000 years ago…
Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.


made me have a nice lul before sleep

just made me lul
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Banok on February 14, 2014, 02:27:09 am
As someone who actually got a degree in mostly evolution and genetics, I found the entire thing painful. I wrote a hasty post on it:

Quote
Anyone else think Bill Nye made a bit of a hash of it?

I actually watched the whole thing, which I regret since it was utterly pointless and almost 3 hours long. I admire Bill and his motive, but I kind of think someone else could have done a much better job.

Almost everything Ken said was blatantly untrue, and yet Bill didn't really pick up on kens bullshit and explain why he was completely wrong. But instead talked alot about general science and even stuff which didn't feel that relevant. You don't need to talk about the big bang, or possible life on mars, to prove that the world is not thousands of years old.

For instance Ken talks about how they have reinterpreted the bible's "kinds" to be like animal families, so god created groups of animals which have recently evolved. This is quite easily proven to be untrue, by the most compelling evidence for evolution; DNA hierarchy showing relativeness between animal families just as you would expect if they all came from one ancestor.

Bill didn't even go into DNA evidence, or any of the incredibly observable and obvious biological stuff like whales having vestigial hip bones. Its quite obvious he is a physicist, but he still could have made much more relevant arguments by focusing on carbon dating.

Instead he talks at length about how impossible it was to build the ark. Surely that is a waste of his breath, its obvious the ark is entirely impractical, but trying to prove that only gives it credibility it doesn't deserve. He could have been explaining concisely how its provable that the earth is way older, instead of talking about largely irrelevant history of boat-making.

Its absolutely pointless arguing with creationists, anyone worth their salt knows the "theory" of evolution is as much a theory as the "theory" of gravity.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: Xant on February 14, 2014, 06:59:17 am
Yeah, Nye was awful as a debater. Ken said so much bullshit that would've been extremely easy to disprove and would've destroyed his credibility. But instead, it was Ken who asked questions from Nye that Nye never answered. When Ken said that the ice layers could have been formed because of colder years that produced more ice, Nye didn't even rebuke that by saying you can see the summer/winter cycles themselves, the amount of ice is not relevant -- making it seem like Ken got one over Nye.
Title: Re: Evolution vs Creationism debate tonight in 'murica
Post by: kinngrimm on February 14, 2014, 12:53:37 pm
Psychology tells us, when Propaganda is repeated often enough, people start believing everything. Chrisitanity had quite some time to take roots in general public mindsets. The debates on this topic are more often aimed to leave so to speak "reasonable"  :lol: doubt in the minds of people, so they can keep believing.

Additionally what makes it easy for the demagogues to discredit science, is the often rather limited understanding or the discomfort which leads to not wanting to understand the scientific ways. What theory really means, how they are disproven and then replaced by a better theory, that uncertaintinty is not euqal untrue and much more.

I am for a long time now and still am of the opinion that the Age of Enlightenment, which arguably started inbetween the second half of the 17th century, never ended.
As we humans are an empty container, lacking experience and knowledge when we are born and there is all kind of believes and knowledge with whom we get in touch over our lifetimes, therefore we also need to put some energy to keep a general level of understanding in the population, otherwise that what has once been thought is lost or ignored or put into chains by those who think they know/believe "better".