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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Nordwolf on January 29, 2014, 11:31:21 am

Title: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Nordwolf on January 29, 2014, 11:31:21 am
In other words I'm trying to start a reasonable discussion about archery :)

http://i.imgur.com/UECwkUA.png  << this pic is a clear showcase of the situation

Maybe it would look like a repost of this thread: http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/how-to-nerf-archery-without-destroying-it/
But as it has got into nothing I'm posting my opinion on this.

Now there is not a problem with how good/bad archery is, it's the problem about how much ranged there is on the battlefield. There are a few reasons for this:

1. Avalaibility of bows, everyone can take a bow and start effectively shooting people. When loomed bows were better than non-loomed it was harder to play an un-loomed archer, but it was possible, and much less players created 1 day archer characters.

2. Short bows are much more annoying, easy to handle, and practically useless bows for real damage unless you can deliver headshots on a regular basis. But many people take them because they are very easy to handle and fast. Tbh it looks like native archery to me which isn't good. Solution? Of course make missile speed depend on damage. Also increase the penetration ration for bows to make them an actual weapon. Longer bows already do a lot of damage to higher armor so that won't affect them.

Overally: don't nerf damage of bows, it is not a problem, the problem is the amount of ranged and the annoying way of how the short bows work.

Another major problem is that HA is very powerful atm. Now I can just join with my 27 lvl HA (Victory_SouthernWolf) and have a top score. Why? I don't need a loomed bow, my fire ratio is the same as of a foot archer and I can use op short bows (though I use Yumi :P).
What needs to be done:
- Reverting loomed bows patch   'check
- Reducing missile speed of shorter bows 'check
and making HA shoot slower by the ratio of for eg. 1.5, 2 is too much for HA imo.
(Just think about how less HX are now because of that nerf)

Now look at this pic again after reading this: http://i.imgur.com/UECwkUA.png
and again.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 29, 2014, 12:44:34 pm
Quote from: Templar_Steevee on December 11, 2013, 06:04:17 pm
Getting all in one from last nerf archery topic i suggest to:

1. Revert patch buffing non loomed archery gear.
2. Decrease amount of arrows per quiver (17 or 16 bodkins on +3 should be ok)
3. Reduce fire ratio for bows while shooting from horseback (devs done it to HX, so i think they can do it for bows)
4. Lower missile speed for low tier bows (Long bow should have highest missile speed, but it stay just like it is atm, rest should have lower missile speed with rule: lower dmg ->  lower missile speed)
5. Lower a bit amount of dmg added by arrows


For me you just reposted 3 of 5 my suggestions.

It would be nice if devs consider those suggestions and implement them in game, at least for a trial tests and check what will happen.
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 29, 2014, 04:06:48 pm
I count 8 ranged out of a server of 90 people. 


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Go cry somewhere else.  Ranged belong on the battlefield.  A proper team balance system would help fix a lot of the issues.  Since the best counter to ranged is other ranged (or a better game mode, like conquest), the teams need to be balanced relatively evenly between cavalry and ranged classes.

/I do not have any ranged characters

*EDIT* Sorry maybe 11 ranged characters, out of 90.  Your picture doesn't help your case, it hurts it.

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Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Molly on January 29, 2014, 04:26:52 pm
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Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Nordwolf on January 29, 2014, 04:35:23 pm
Hah, it's funny when you say I'm crying because of ranged.

I personally have at least 4 ranged characters, what's your point? And that battle was ~60 people = 30vs30 and 10 ranged in a team of 30 is fine yeah? Not mentioning the HAs riding in the background.
The problem is here, and ignoring it won't help resolve it.
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 29, 2014, 04:44:12 pm
Quote from: Nordwolf on January 29, 2014, 04:35:23 pm
Hah, it's funny when you say I'm crying because of ranged.

I personally have at least 4 ranged characters, what's your point? And that battle was ~60 people = 30vs30 and 10 ranged in a team of 30 is fine yeah? Not mentioning the HAs riding in the background.
The problem is here, and ignoring it won't help resolve it.

It shows 45v45 as the teams.  Showing a picture with approximately 10% of the server being ranged, does not help state your case that "wahhh too many ranged".  Or whatever it is you're trying to lobby about.
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: 722_ on January 29, 2014, 04:47:37 pm
Quote from: Molly on January 29, 2014, 04:26:52 pm
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Nordwolf on January 29, 2014, 04:57:56 pm
(click to show/hide)
Don't know what's going on NA servers, but it's clearly a problem on EU1 and 2.
Just venture there sometimes if you want to see it.
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Austrian on January 29, 2014, 05:06:02 pm
Quote from: Nordwolf on January 29, 2014, 11:31:21 am
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I see 6 archers in that screenshot, with 90 players alive. Seriously, what's your problem?
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Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: Rumblood on January 30, 2014, 05:07:09 am
ITT:

Topic says ranged. OP only talks about archery.  :?
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: HappyPhantom on January 30, 2014, 05:19:36 am
Quote from: Rumblood on January 30, 2014, 05:07:09 am
ITT:

Topic says ranged. OP only talks about archery.  :?

STORY OF OUR LIVES! :/
Title: Re: Ranged effectiveness vs quantity
Post by: larlek on January 30, 2014, 05:39:19 am
We could create ranged concentration camps servers where we could keep all the ranged players who just want to camp and shoot at each other from the corners of the map. No more getting shot in the back or having to chase down the last enemy team member as he flees with his 9ath. Imagine it!

On a serious note, we need some sort of balance for the ranged classes but I doubt there will ever be a suggestion that doesn't make ranged players QQ and that is easy enough to implement. Equal distribution of archers per team would be my suggestion. That way the two sides of archers can just shoot themselves.