cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Arashai on January 24, 2014, 10:36:04 am

Title: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Arashai on January 24, 2014, 10:36:04 am
As title says, im curious, with the new agility changes recently, would a build leaning heavier on agility be better? or no difference?
Like possibly the 15/24 , or even something crazy like a 12/28, would the increase in wpf/speed be better/outweigh the loss in ps damage?
Just spit ballin, thoughts?

Edit- Also secondary question, First looms should be spent on what? a horse or a lance?
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Smoothrich on January 24, 2014, 10:49:14 am
The heavy lance is unusable without looms. Lance or Light Lance can play unloomed.  Horses are crappy without looms and very frustrating when peoples +3 horses are faster than your +0.

I suggest you find a clan you can join with a good armory and try out different horses and find what you like the most before you invest loom points in one. They usually have loomed lances available as well.

Typically you just want as much riding as you need to ride your preferred horse. Going 8+ riding (unless you also want that much athletics as an infantry hybrid) isn't really worth it.

So go ahead with 15/24 if you plan on getting both 8 Riding and Athletics, you'll enjoy it.

Having a high WPF and/or high riding skill doesn't make much difference while fighting from horseback in the long run, since you should be choosing your own engagements (aka backstabbing/couching unawares)
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: imisshotmail on January 24, 2014, 10:29:26 pm
If anything the new WPF changes make the cavalry builds with more riding worse sadly, as the main high riding builds before then were the 18/24, 15/27, 12/30 ones and all of them have no room for weapon master which means your damage will be drastically lower now.

If you want a really high damage cavalry build currently without athletics, your best bet would be 21/18 or 18/21, however I would say that both of those are not worth the extra 1 riding you get at the sacrifice of all your athletics. So you should probably just go 21/15 or 18/18 and enjoy being able to melee fine for only a very small trade off.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on January 24, 2014, 10:43:34 pm
Hi, I'm the best 1H cavalry in NA here to tell you that having any more riding than 5 is pretty much pointless if you play 1h cav, and I guess the same thing applies to 2h cav.

EDIT: Loom your horse first for sure. If you can, get 2 loom points and try and buy a +3 horse on the marketplace so you can save some cash. Some people sell their horses for less than three loom points so leveling your own stuff up with your loom points is often the most expensive approach.

SUPER MEGA EXTRA TURBO FREE MCDONALDS TIER EDIT: I recommend the barded warhorse for 1h, 2h, and lancer cav if you're new to the game. A new player would hardly notice the lower speed and maneuverability but you will feel the extra charge and durability, and it's fairly affordable for a player who hasn't spent a long time building up cash in the game.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 24, 2014, 10:46:44 pm
I do not think it's worth ever having more agility than you need for riding of the horse of your choosing.  I'd suggest going "min" on agility (For riding skill needed) and then max on str/power strike for whatever you have left over.

If you aren't going to be using a shield, I'd suggest these builds at level 30:  24/15 (on 5 riding horses), 21/18 (using 6 riding horses), 18/21 (using 7 riding horses).
If you are going to use a shield then I'd suggest at level 30:  21/15, 18/18 or 15/21.

I think you're better off looming your horse first, because it's the main tool that you use on the battlefield.  After it's +3 then I'd start looming your main weapon.  And if you are still playing the game after that, then I'd suggest starting to loom your body armor. 

Like smoothpenis said, the heavy lance is barely useable at +3, I would highly advise against using it non-loomed.  The lance is a very good weapon though (even unloomed), and that's the lance I'd suggest using if you are going lancer cav.  +3 heavy lance is my favorite lance because I can engage other cavalry and not have to worry about them outreaching me, but I still prefer the lance if I'm playing smart and attacking infantry (it's just a beast, and you can get more swings per minute with it, meaning you can hit more people in short succession). 

I think the best horse in the game is the Arabian warhorse for it's agility (and still being pretty fast top speed), but it requires 7 riding, which I think is too much to invest, so although it's the best horse (to me), I wouldn't recommend riding it.  I love my courser because nobody can catch me on the field, but investing 6 riding is also somewhat unnecessary vs the trade off of being able to have more power strike.  The speed bonus is nice, but it also works against you. 

My suggested cavalry build at level 30 would be either 21/15 (if using 1h/shield/lance), or 24/15 is using pure polearm (or 2h/polearm hybrid).  I would always max power strike, riding, and athletics (don't max shield if you go shield skill, stop at 4).  And then it's up to you whether you want to max IF or Weapon Master (or do a combo).  I personally max out WM and then put 1 or 2 into IF.  But you can tinker around with what you think you want to aim for using a character calculator:

http://sayginsoher.com/merccrpg/calculator/ is probably the best for user interface. The WPF is not accurate however on any calculator I know of.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Awea on January 25, 2014, 05:31:54 am
To have a good army, we need everything: Archers, light Riders, Hard Riders, Shielders, Angry footmans with 2H, etc… And don't forget my dear lancers :o

Pense aux Spartiates et aux paysans qui les accompagnes. Or just be a copy of Link from Zelda's games.

It doesn't matter you have just to be usefull for your team and you have to feel the blood of your enemies. Just KILL.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Arashai on January 25, 2014, 02:04:58 pm
Thanks for the replies everyone. Thats what i thought - basically just minimum agility. A friend of mine and myself were just toying around with the idea of insane high agility riding/infantry hybrid, like the 12/28, but countering that with saving points by putting less in athletics. So youd have you your lance and 8 riding, but also have a shield and a 1h that swings very quickly because of the high agility+4 wm. We tested it out on a stf, it seemed to work, my main worry was the lowish damage.. Either way though thats just the theory-crafting question haha...

I used to play cav alot pre-nerfs, just getting back into it. Ive noticed the angleing is a bit more tough now. Which makes me debate on whats better nowadays, pure lance/pole when in infantry mode. -Or- the hybrid Lance 1h/shield, Im just having troubles deciding.

On horses, i am very fond of my courser, -Togoblinking- Ive actually never tryed any of the heavier horses, besides on occasion in a map where i grab one after mine has died. Ill have to think about it.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: NejStark on January 25, 2014, 02:17:40 pm
When they changed it, I just ditched the shield. Its more of a challenge that way. Currently lvl 29, have a 1:1 K/d since retiring, occasionally get valour, always have fun.
Having no shield challenges you to improve your riding and blocking too. Currently 21/15 and going for 5 riding, 7ps, 7if, 0 shield, 4 agi for infantry maps and getting dehorsed when i hit 30. I take a MW heavy lance and a polearm axe on my back for when Im dehorsed. Im not sure if its a popular build, but ive used it for last 2 gens and had a lot of fun with it.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 27, 2014, 04:05:39 pm
I'm also very fond of my courser.  I've been riding it for 3 years now.  At level 30 (when I was retiring at 31) I always went with this build:

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 55

    Converted (skills to attributes): 2
    Ironflesh: 1
    Power Strike: 6
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Weapon Master: 6

And split WPF between 1h and polearms pretty equally.  I like it because I can fight well on the ground with 1h/shield if I go down behind enemy lines (shield is nice for being able to move around in the middle of a lot of enemies, chamber facing one enemy and then turn and swing on another).  Also it's nice for taking projectiles that would otherwise hit you or your horse.  It's also nice for being able to block a couched lance (although I pretty much never do on horse since I either avoid the couched lance, or try to out-thrust them with them heavy lance). 

If you wanted you could go 21/18 if you were going pure polearms and do this build:

    Hit Points: 56

    Converted: 8
    Power Strike: 7
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Weapon Master: 4

18/18 build at 30 is nice if you want to go higher level as well. But keep in mind you may not want to put that 1 point into Ironflesh if you plan on going a higher level build.  That way you can convert 2 more skills to atts and have this build at 32:

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 56

    Converted: 4
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 4
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Weapon Master: 6
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on February 02, 2014, 07:51:02 pm
I wouldn't do this if my main character was cavalry, but I think 8+ riding is a lot of fun sometimes. If you get a good map for couching, pull out that great lance and zoom around one-shotting people and kiting slower cav behind you.

If you plan to do hybrid cav/infantry or to use 1H on horseback then it's not worth investing more agility than you would have before.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 06, 2014, 05:51:16 am
Quote from: WITCHCRAFT on February 02, 2014, 07:51:02 pm
(click to show/hide)

I agree 8+ riding is gimmicky and fun. A while back I was playing a 18/27 lancer build (I think, maybe 24). Literally just a fast horse and a lance were all I had going for me. Not fun for more than a gen though.

And yeah, I recently made the mistake of going for a 21/18, lvl 33, 1h/shield cav (Huey's build later on I think). It's flexible and fast (7 agility, 7 riding) but light lancer cav has been so fucking fucked recently. And I'm still stuck with 5 power strike. DO NOT sacrifice strength for one or two more riding. It's honestly a mistake, given the status of light cav in both Strat and cRPG in general at the moment. You have to try way to hard to kill people on foot, landing more hits and blocking more swings than if you were a proper strength baddie, and the lighter horses get shot up too fast for you to rack up the K/D.

Also, most of the fun in Strat is reserved for big strong infantrymen and it's nice to fight on foot and not suck cock.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Smoothrich on February 06, 2014, 07:21:38 am
Quote from: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 06, 2014, 05:51:16 am
I agree 8+ riding is gimmicky and fun. A while back I was playing a 18/27 lancer build (I think, maybe 24). Literally just a fast horse and a lance were all I had going for me. Not fun for more than a gen though.

And yeah, I recently made the mistake of going for a 21/18, lvl 33, 1h/shield cav (Huey's build later on I think). It's flexible and fast (7 agility, 7 riding) but light lancer cav has been so fucking fucked recently. And I'm still stuck with 5 power strike. DO NOT sacrifice strength for one or two more riding. It's honestly a mistake, given the status of light cav in both Strat and cRPG in general at the moment. You have to try way to hard to kill people on foot, landing more hits and blocking more swings than if you were a proper strength baddie, and the lighter horses get shot up too fast for you to rack up the K/D.

Also, most of the fun in Strat is reserved for big strong infantrymen and it's nice to fight on foot and not suck cock.

Your build is fucked, you should probably just respec, unless you can grind it to 34 (strat is coming back soon afterall)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


This is mine. I might respec once Strat gets going to be 24/18 at 34 for more PS, but for 33 my build is a great cav/infantry hybrid.

If you want 1hand/lance/shield instead of lance/2hand, you should just have 3 IF and 4 Shield for Elite Cavalry shield.

Yeah light cav is bad but using a Destrier or War Horse with a +3 Lance I do just great anyways. Courser is too annoying since 1 bolt or arrow blackbars it. 6 Riding isn't really necessary anymore but I take it for the hell of it. Under 6 athletics just isn't fun for me and a lot less effective compared to "balanced builds" for how I play.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on February 06, 2014, 07:24:44 am
So I'll soon be lvl 35 and have this build:

15/24
5if
5ps
8riding
8wm
4 shield
8ath

I already love couching with my great lance now, but I hope 8riding will make me hell for other players. What horse do you suggest? Courser, arabian or eastern?
Courser seems nice as it will have a trolly speed, but why is the eastern 8 difficulty if it is so weak?
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Smoothrich on February 06, 2014, 07:51:57 am
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on February 06, 2014, 07:24:44 am
So I'll soon be lvl 35 and have this build:

15/24
5if
5ps
8riding
8wm
4 shield
8ath

I already love couching with my great lance now, but I hope 8riding will make me hell for other players. What horse do you suggest? Courser, arabian or eastern?
Courser seems nice as it will have a trolly speed, but why is the eastern 8 difficulty if it is so weak?

If you want to troll, use a heavily armored horse, not any of those shit ones. If you just want to go fast, use a Courser. If you are really good at playing cavalry, use an Arabian, but its difficult to survive unless you make no mistakes. That 8 difficulty horse might as well not exist, it has really stupid stats.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on February 06, 2014, 10:07:15 am
Would a heavy horse go fast enough with 8 riding to actually annoy peope?

I have a heraldic barbed at +3 now, I know it's shit but I love how it looks. I guess it's not really a heavy horse? Maybe buy an unloomed plated charger?
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 06, 2014, 04:18:50 pm
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on February 06, 2014, 10:07:15 am
Would a heavy horse go fast enough with 8 riding to actually annoy peope?

I have a heraldic barbed at +3 now, I know it's shit but I love how it looks. I guess it's not really a heavy horse? Maybe buy an unloomed plated charger?

I would not think so.  My rule of thumb is to never go more riding than minimum needed for your horse of choice.  You will see a slight speed and maneuver increase, but unless you're riding side by side with someone on the same horse with less riding, you won't tell the difference.  And you won't be going much faster than them unless you're riding from one side of a map to the other.  Compared to the alternative (having way more power strike) you're better off going "min" riding. 

Barded aren't really "heavy" Horses, but they are still damn good horses.  So are the padded horses.  I would consider War Horse and up to be "heavy" horses.  (war horse is my favorite heavy horse). 
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on February 07, 2014, 06:25:30 pm
Shit, Smooth, I was drunk when I posted. I'm 18/21, not 21/18.

Still a terrible build and will probably respec soon to something less shitty like yours, but w/ 1h/shield.

Quote from: no_rules_just_play on February 06, 2014, 10:07:15 am
Would a heavy horse go fast enough with 8 riding to actually annoy peope?

Not really. You'd be about as fast as the lighter horses on a heavy horse w/ 8 riding, but maximum trolling would be a courser or Arabian or destrier. Fully loomed coursers are almost-kind-of-survivable. It really depends on your play style.
Title: Re: Any Cav build difference with agility change?
Post by: Macropus on February 07, 2014, 09:16:54 pm
Just sharing...
Some time ago I respecced my 34 lvl main to HA, "manly edition". My HA lvl 33 build was 15-24, 5 PS, 100 wp in 1h, 8 riding. Used arabian warhorse and arabian cavalry sword.
Yeah, that was fun. 8 riding and maneuverable horse makes it pretty effective even in city-like maps. You still most often onehit kill archers and overall damage is quite nice except when you have low speed.

I rage respecced again short time after that, though.