cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Smoothrich on January 21, 2014, 05:16:47 am

Title: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Smoothrich on January 21, 2014, 05:16:47 am
This board is a smorgasbord of terrible posting by terrible players. One of the most prominent is Kafein, whenever I read any of his balance posts one word just starts ringing out in my mind over and over, louder each time. "Scrub."

I would like to suggest a new rule to bring some common sense and perhaps even humility to the posting that goes on here, and filter out some of the white noise.

Here I'll start the trend.

"2hand is currently being outperformed by every other melee class, and melee cav has never been weaker. Nerf ranged across the board, and give a must deserved nerf to hoplites, ranged, 2d polearms, 4d polearms, pierce 1handers, stabbing 1handers, blunt 1handers, and mounted range. Battle is impossible to perform well on nowadays without being one of those classes."

signed,
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Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Tydeus on January 21, 2014, 05:20:08 am
Can I have some gold?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Taser on January 21, 2014, 05:31:48 am
Can I have some gold?

He only has 750k.. you broke tydeus?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Kafein on January 21, 2014, 09:23:05 am
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Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: En_Dotter on January 21, 2014, 09:49:53 am
ooooooooooook... What about ppl who are playing siege most of the time? They dont get k:d? What about ppl who are there to do the support like pikes and shields with low ps and ranged with light bows/xbows and throwers?
As usually ppl try to include K:D ratios into some "quality" calculations... Makes no sense... I assisted so many kills that i take greater pride in those actions than actually landing a killing blow (shot)...
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Grumbs on January 21, 2014, 12:57:15 pm
Wasn't posting your KD in that other thread enough? I know this is just a joke thread and is destined for spam, but w/e

I think part of the problem is that we have quite a split community. Some people want to balance around siege, some battle, some Strat, some even duel. Totally different game modes, different objectives, different lethality for classes etc. Then we have EU and NA. Different spread of classes, different ability of players etc

Reason I say that is KD is only an indication of ability. It depends on what game mode you play, which class you are, which server, how consistent you are, how serious you play all the time etc. Getting 4:1 KD is different on horseback than with an archer for eg, eventhough the ranged player might be just as useful as the cav. It depends on the class counters too. I know cav can get great KD's but I feel that often it is fair KD so its not like you can use KD just to suggest something is OP either.

Last hits are not all that matter in the game, its overall usefulness for your team (archer might be hitting stuff all round but not necessarily getting last hits, and he can be bad at the game and do it) and it depends whether its deserved KD or not depending on many other factors. KD says nothing about how fair and unbiased your viewpoints will be too. You really need to see someone play to decide if they are bad or not, although very low KD would be an indication of that it can't really be used by itself
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Tydeus on January 21, 2014, 01:03:39 pm
He only has 750k.. you broke tydeus?
Actually, yes. Item balancers don't get any special treatment, we have to buy items like everyone else if we want to do tests. Every patch where there are item changes/new items added my funds drop significantly and unfortunately, I've been testing mostly expensive playstyles for the past few months as well. Oh well.

ooooooooooook... What about ppl who are playing siege most of the time? They dont get k:d? What about ppl who are there to do the support like pikes and shields with low ps and ranged with light bows/xbows and throwers?
As usually ppl try to include K:D ratios into some "quality" calculations... Makes no sense... I assisted so many kills that i take greater pride in those actions than actually landing a killing blow (shot)...
En Dotter, I would assume he'd take a screenshot of your K:D at the end of a map.

Grumbs, I'm not sure this is the right thread to be using logic and reason. I suggest posting random pictures/gifs.
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Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: owens on January 21, 2014, 01:30:31 pm
Fuck you man you fucking pussy


Only 400 kills!
Played on DTV until lvl 30 of course you are going to have a good kd bundle of sticks
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Torben on January 21, 2014, 02:13:17 pm
"2hand is currently being outperformed by every other melee class

where is panos when you need him
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Angantyr on January 21, 2014, 02:31:41 pm
Does this include respeccing at high level to reset k/d for maximum e-peen?
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Joker86 on January 21, 2014, 03:48:18 pm
Here I'll start the trend.

"2hand is currently being outperformed by every other melee class, and melee cav has never been weaker. Nerf ranged across the board, and give a must deserved nerf to hoplites, ranged, 2d polearms, 4d polearms, pierce 1handers, stabbing 1handers, blunt 1handers, and mounted range. Battle is impossible to perform well on nowadays without being one of those classes."

You know, Smooth...

...the biggest retard can have good reflexes and muscle memory. Doesn't mean he understands any single problem.
...the biggest asshole can find out a lame trick and abuse the shit out of it. Doesn't mean he knows anything about balancing or is unbiased.
...the smartest guy can completely freak out when someone approaches in melee, never mind how long he play. Doesn't mean he has no clue of balancing.

And you know what?

Perhaps it is good to know how to fight when trying to balance items. Perhaps it's bad. I don't know. But you should know how game design works when making suggestions and blaming the balance for problems which stem from completely different things  :wink:

Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Kafein on January 21, 2014, 06:44:14 pm
...the biggest asshole can find out a lame trick and abuse the shit out of it. Doesn't mean he knows anything about balancing or is unbiased.

Smoothrich will now call you a scrub for not accepting the glory of abusing the shit out of everything abusable.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Taser on January 22, 2014, 04:04:17 am
Actually, yes. Item balancers don't get any special treatment, we have to buy items like everyone else if we want to do tests. Every patch where there are item changes/new items added my funds drop significantly and unfortunately, I've been testing mostly expensive playstyles for the past few months as well. Oh well.

I didn't know mang.

I thought admins just took items from the sky as they fell from heaven. Now I know differently.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Snufalufagus on January 22, 2014, 04:58:35 am
Well, we can just re-balance the game to death. I mean how many people are left? Lets just throw everything on its head every month. Screw every level 34 basing his decisions on existing mechanics. Don't make no sense.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Kafein on January 22, 2014, 09:13:10 am
Well, we can just re-balance the game to death. I mean how many people are left? Lets just throw everything on its head every month. Screw every level 34 basing his decisions on existing mechanics. Don't make no sense.

Screw every level 34. Period. I'm level 33
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Phew on January 27, 2014, 08:01:42 pm
Balance between the melee types (animations/weapon stats) is as good as it will ever be, leave balance alone and work on better game modes and reward system. And fix that stupid kick.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Phantasmal on January 27, 2014, 08:08:52 pm
Can I have some gold?

I have some extra gold lying around that I could be persuaded to donate... If you listen to some of my ideas for some specific 1hs  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Taser on January 28, 2014, 03:35:20 am
I have some extra gold lying around that I could be persuaded to donate... If you listen to some of my ideas for some specific 1hs  :mrgreen:

Bribery! I will not stand for this!

Unless perhaps the military cleaver is buffed somehow then I'm all for this. (Of course the military cleaver needs a buff, it doesn't decapitate heads nor limbs. I demand a buff to compensate.)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on January 28, 2014, 04:28:18 am
Downvoted everyone that disagreed for Smoothrich on grounds of having autism and no sense of humor.

Nobody thank me, I'm just doing my part to improve internet culture.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Lemon on January 28, 2014, 05:32:06 am
Downvoted everyone that disagreed for Smoothrich on grounds of having autism and no sense of humor.

Nobody thank me, I'm just doing my part to improve internet culture.
thanks
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Elindor on January 28, 2014, 08:51:00 pm
Funny thing (and I know this sounds weird to say) is that in some ways Smoothrich has a point - in that often the best players who are good at most weapon types and know they are good (and not having to constantly prove it like the rest of us ego hungry fanatics) actually do tend to have a better grasp on what is and what is not balanced between the weapons and builds. 

However, there are only a couple of people like that.  Some of them are Saul, San, etc....which is why I'm glad San is a balancer now.  Tydeus too.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on January 28, 2014, 10:16:07 pm
Funny thing (and I know this sounds weird to say) is that in some ways Smoothrich has a point - in that often the best players who are good at most weapon types and know they are good (and not having to constantly prove it like the rest of us ego hungry fanatics) actually do tend to have a better grasp on what is and what is not balanced between the weapons and builds. 

However, there are only a couple of people like that.  Some of them are Saul, San, etc....which is why I'm glad San is a balancer now.  Tydeus too.

I insist upon myself as the counterpoint to those individuals in that I get fantastic KDs yet am pretty horrible at understanding the combat mechanics.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Elindor on January 28, 2014, 11:20:50 pm
I insist upon myself as the counterpoint to those individuals in that I get fantastic KDs yet am pretty horrible at understanding the combat mechanics.

Permitted.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Prpavi on January 29, 2014, 01:14:56 am
hah! having 400 kils on lvl 33, I'd say you're pretty shit  :mrgreen:

but srsly, I have 1.1 KD on my HA and it proves shit, it only proves getting used to the class and the arrow arches is tuffer on me than somebody else so i spent allot of time dying and not killing anybody... KD is way too presonal and can be abused to fit the purpose, like you did with your KD or me posting mine and saying see HA are UP, buff pls.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Canuck on January 29, 2014, 01:35:14 am
My KD fucking sucks. I suck. Melee balance is ok. Ranged fucking sucks.

That is all.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: kinngrimm on January 29, 2014, 02:24:22 am
185 unread pms  :shock:
Is there a corellation between, how you handle your fighting practises and how you handle your mail?  :lol:
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: MURDERTRON on January 29, 2014, 03:52:21 am
Buff cav.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Duster on January 29, 2014, 04:22:14 am
185 unread pms  :shock:
Is there a corellation between, how you handle your fighting practises and how you handle your mail?  :lol:

System messages from armory usage
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: bagge on January 29, 2014, 07:31:52 am
Can I have some gold?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Shaksie on January 29, 2014, 08:11:20 am
I wholeheartedly agree.
K/D=skill=intelligence=how equal you are (animal farm etc.)

Murdertron's signature
Quote
"This Agressiv and intolerantest Gameplay against the Rules without anykind of sorry shows me and other Players that there is absolutly no Respekt in these Players head.  So i beg you to Ban them forever to show them the Power of the community."  --Some PW scrub

That was probably the best thing I've ever read.

Super cereal discussion tho:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: MURDERTRON on February 01, 2014, 09:45:24 pm
Murdertron's signature
That was probably the best thing I've ever read.

Sometimes you just have to take your mediocre melee skills to PW and random everyone you see when there's not enough forum drama here and a lull in Strat.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: San on February 11, 2014, 04:37:07 am
Can I make changes to 1h/2h cav now?

(click to show/hide)

I think the pure 2h axes and the like with no 1h mode should stay the same, 2h/1h without shield should have the same penalty that the pure 2h currently have, buff 2h/1h weapons with shield, and slightly reduce 1h cav damage by like 10-15% or so.

This makes 1h cav much more speed bonus reliant. Cav also still get hold bonuses, so trying to maximize your damage would require careful timing instead of doing whatever and keeping nice damage. The ranged changes overall make ranged do less damage against the decently armoured cav, so I think it's a fair enough change. It would be unoptimal to stop someone and spam them to death when they're still without high PS (taking more time = enemy ranged and cav may attack you). Makes lancers a more dangerous threat, requiring 1h cav to catch them on the sides.

2h/1h weapons would be able to be competent in 1h mode, 2h mode, or both. It would be under similar limitations to 1h cav, except with more power at the cost of speed.

Pure 2h weapons would still deal very good damage at the cost of utility just like before, basically unchanged to how it is now. It's an indirect buff by making it more appealing compared to the alternatives. Not to mention the inclusion of the long iron mace.

I don't think the changes are that unreasonable considering lances already receive harsher penalties and overall fair just fine. Cav who already utilize such things would barely be affected.

I'm thinking that riding skill can be rebuffed, but I'd rather not pile up too many changes at once. I felt a decent increase in effectivity on horse at 7riding compared to other players. Also thinking of horse ranged that can get their riding to 8-9+ being much more effective than a melee build with the same allocation of points.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: Grumbs on February 11, 2014, 08:10:38 am
Is it maybe possible to tweak the 1 hand animation on horseback? Thats something i'd look into - that range is huge and it seems to actively deal damage for a long time during the swing, like the end of the swing still hits players behind the swing

Not sure about possible ranged cav tweaks with horse skill getting buffed. I wouldn't mess around with the horse skill tbh, have you seen how fast some people can rotate their horse like the Arabian Cavalry (think its that one). Like it turns on a dime to charge again. Turn speed should be one of the limiting factors when players on a horse - it adds a decent downside to the increased speed. I'd reduce the maneuver for the faster horses if anything
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: imisshotmail on February 11, 2014, 09:39:04 am
In my opinion the only reason 1h/2h cav is too strong right now is because even if they run at you full speed and you hit their horse it doesn't die and then they follow through and hit you and usually kill you.

Just nerf horse survivability against melee and suddenly those classes become balanced because no longer can they just run at people knowing they're gonna get hit.

Would also have the effect of making it easier for lance cav to kill 1h/2h cav which they should be doing easily. Whereas now as every lance cav player knows, you can pretty much avoid dieing to 1h/2h cav completely but actually dehorsing them is ridiculously hard because of how many hits any horse takes from a lance with the low damage.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: San on February 12, 2014, 03:21:50 am
imisshotmail, the closest to that would be moving the weak point for horses from the legs to the head. I think making the legs defenseless simply causes your horse to get 1-2shot by teammates more often than not and would like that removed or at the very least reduced.

I think that would make dehorsing for skilled lancers make more sense, although it'll still be risky if you're against a full health heavy cav. In a lancer fight, control of the head position is vital anyways.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: MountedRhader on February 12, 2014, 03:28:05 am
This is a good idea.



Sometimes you just have to take your mediocre melee skills to PW and random everyone you see when there's not enough forum drama here and a lull in Strat.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: imisshotmail on February 13, 2014, 07:32:11 pm
imisshotmail, the closest to that would be moving the weak point for horses from the legs to the head. I think making the legs defenseless simply causes your horse to get 1-2shot by teammates more often than not and would like that removed or at the very least reduced.

I think that would make dehorsing for skilled lancers make more sense, although it'll still be risky if you're against a full health heavy cav. In a lancer fight, control of the head position is vital anyways.

Yeah it being the head would probably be best all round, helps with the sometimes stupid shield forcefield on horseback too, that doesn't let you hit the legs.
Title: Re: Suggestion: Mandatory Posting of Your KD and Build Before Any Balance Post
Post by: dreadnok on February 21, 2014, 02:50:28 pm
All hail King Richard! You peasants are lucky he even graced you with his immaculate wisdom before he was muted! You knaves! Swine!