cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:15:33 am

Title: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:15:33 am
Currently I'm:

Level 27
24/15
143 Archery
8 Power Draw
5 Weapon Mastery

Equipped with:
Khergit or Strong Bow
Bodkin arrows

I have no problem hitting people, but it seems that even people in light armor require more than 2 shots.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Denam on May 16, 2011, 05:18:57 am
Aim at peasants for great success!
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:21:07 am
Quote from: Denam on May 16, 2011, 05:18:57 am
Aim at peasants for great success!

Yeah. Peasants are insta-kills. Unfortunately they do not make up the bulk of those that I encounter.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Wildling on May 16, 2011, 05:21:25 am
I don't know if I can link the video; But a man in Brazil, i nthe hood was shot four times with an arrow before he fell down. A -very- graphic video, just search for it.


Point is. You can't one shot people.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: PhantomZero on May 16, 2011, 05:24:47 am
I vote for Hestus to just win every battle. There wouldn't even need to be a fight. It just ends after a minute so everyone can spawn in.

We can rename the mod Hestus Always Wins.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:28:21 am
Quote from: Wildling on May 16, 2011, 05:21:25 am
I don't know if I can link the video; But a man in Brazil, i nthe hood was shot four times with an arrow before he fell down. A -very- graphic video, just search for it.


Point is. You can't one shot people.

Fair enough, but let's also consider the fact that taking a barbed arrow to the vitals would be somewhat critical.

I was just curious if anyone noticed a significant difference at, say, Power Draw 10.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Tor! on May 16, 2011, 05:28:49 am
Im having great success on my archer alt with 24/15 build and strong bow. Dunno what archers whine about, archery is more than strong enough as it is. You might get an okay K/D ratio, but the damage you deal out spread across alot of people is more than most other classes can, and your supposed to be a support class, right?  :wink:
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:30:12 am
Quote from: PhantomZero on May 16, 2011, 05:24:47 am
I vote for Hestus to just win every battle. There wouldn't even need to be a fight. It just ends after a minute so everyone can spawn in.

We can rename the mod Hestus Always Wins.

Just 1 minute?

That's not nearly enough time for LLJK to voice spam, team wound or grief...
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: PhantomZero on May 16, 2011, 05:36:38 am
Quote from: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:30:12 am
Just 1 minute?

That's not nearly enough time for LLJK to voice spam, team wound or grief...

You clearly don't play with enough LLJK.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:37:58 am
Quote from: Tor! on May 16, 2011, 05:28:49 am
Im having great success on my archer alt with 24/15 build and strong bow. Dunno what archers whine about, archery is more than strong enough as it is. You might get an okay K/D ratio, but the damage you deal out spread across alot of people is more than most other classes can, and your supposed to be a support class, right?  :wink:

Do you have any skill points spread out to things other than Power Draw/Weapon Mastery?

I'm curious if I should stick with PD 8 and start dumping into Athletics and such.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:39:41 am
Quote from: PhantomZero on May 16, 2011, 05:36:38 am
You clearly don't play with enough LLJK.

Lately their presence has thinned.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: bilwit on May 16, 2011, 05:40:47 am
I have a 2nd gen archer. It sucks. I made a pure 2H alt and went 30-9 at lvl23 with highland claymore+padded jack/leather. Reroll and you'll have more fun than you've ever had with your archer.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:41:43 am
What's a good spec for a lancer? I see those guys murdering everyone all the time, everywhere.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Tor! on May 16, 2011, 05:55:14 am
Quote from: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:37:58 am
Do you have any skill points spread out to things other than Power Draw/Weapon Mastery?

I'm curious if I should stick with PD 8 and start dumping into Athletics and such.

Yeah, full powerdraw and WM, 6 powerstrike and 4 athletics. Was supposed to be 5 PS and 5 ath, but I screwed it up  :P
Can melee quite well with 1 wpf langes messer, and pd8 + strongbow is a beast.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Gorath on May 16, 2011, 06:22:13 am
Quote from: Hestus on May 16, 2011, 05:15:33 am
require more than 2 shots.

OH GOD FORBID THAT FIRING AN ATTACK FROM NIGH COMPLETE SAFETY AND IMMUNITY FROM COUNTERATTACK TAKES 2+ SHOTS TO KILL WITHOUT A HEADSHOT!!!!  THE TRAGEDY!!!!!

/capslock lulz
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: yiyayiyayo on May 16, 2011, 06:29:07 am
I haven't been playing CRPG since last december. And now i have got some spare time to return to crpg world.

I have a quesiton. Does the actural archery WPF still suffer from armor\helmet weight and PD?


Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Rumblood on May 16, 2011, 06:30:18 am
Archery is fine. Yes weight affects reticule.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: yiyayiyayo on May 16, 2011, 06:35:16 am
There used to be a webpage where i could find a archery wpf calculator. And i forget the url.

Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Rumblood on May 16, 2011, 06:57:20 am
Quote from: yiyayiyayo on May 16, 2011, 06:35:16 am
There used to be a webpage where i could find a archery wpf calculator. And i forget the url.

Archery has been changed every patch. Anything old is outdated. What exactly about wpf are you trying to calculate?
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on May 16, 2011, 10:44:16 am
Actually archery is fine at the moment.

Just leave everything and stop complaining about it. Otherwise they change things again and again and make it worse.
I have no idea why you don't kill with your bow and skilling....wolves_stulle uses a strongbow and he kills many many people. He also did before he had it masterwork.
I use a longbow and used a warbow before and I also kill many people. Most of the time I'm somewhere at the top of the list :/  And i had many kills before the new patch and before having my bows masterwork.

I don't know why you have problems killing people, but it's not fault of how archery is.

Maybe your armor is too heavy? Don't know what you wear, but weight affects accuracy and damage
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Lorn on May 16, 2011, 11:09:40 am
Quote from: Gorath on May 16, 2011, 06:22:13 am
OH GOD FORBID THAT FIRING AN ATTACK FROM NIGH COMPLETE SAFETY AND IMMUNITY FROM COUNTERATTACK TAKES 2+ SHOTS TO KILL WITHOUT A HEADSHOT!!!!  THE TRAGEDY!!!!!

/capslock lulz

Does it remind you of the pre-archery animation days Gorath?  :P :P :P

As long as it doesn't take you 10+ shots to kill a dude in semiplate/plate armor archery is fine!  :P
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Tzar on May 16, 2011, 11:33:23 am
Quote from: Gorath on May 16, 2011, 06:22:13 am
OH GOD FORBID THAT FIRING AN ATTACK FROM NIGH COMPLETE SAFETY AND IMMUNITY FROM COUNTERATTACK TAKES 2+ SHOTS TO KILL WITHOUT A HEADSHOT!!!!  THE TRAGEDY!!!!!

/capslock lulz

This should be my new sig  :wink:

This is whats wrong with every fuckin single archer out there their logic is flawed
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Prpavi on May 16, 2011, 11:42:57 am
Quote from: Tor! on May 16, 2011, 05:28:49 am
Im having great success on my archer alt with 24/15 build and strong bow. Dunno what archers whine about, archery is more than strong enough as it is. You might get an okay K/D ratio, but the damage you deal out spread across alot of people is more than most other classes can, and your supposed to be a support class, right?  :wink:

I must say this is one of the spot on realistic no bs comments i red in a while.

you sir get +1 from me.

back to the topic, ffs ppl pls stop the whine you deal more than enough damage and the shere amount of you running bastards makes me wanna quit forever so no you dont need a buff, there are other classes than archers and you are not the rulers of battlefield or equivalent of todays snipers so you can one shot ppl get that out of your head. And if you want to talk reality 80% of your arrows should bounce off my plate since thats the way it was atleast it was like that more than 20 meters away so that damage you deal to plate and an effect you have on the battlefield of cRPG is great, too great for me but hell not my decision.
and remember you are a support troop not the chart toppers  :wink:
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on May 16, 2011, 12:49:15 pm
Advice: I had the exactly same build as u before i retired 8 PD, 6 WM and 3 PS! Lots of power but a little inaccurate, if u actually want to kill ppl equip the longbow, longbow finally got buffed and have got 26 pierce. Pierce is alot better against heavy armored ppl, test it out on siege and ur definetly gonna get a hell lot of kills :)
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: AzureSkys on May 16, 2011, 03:49:38 pm
My point of view is that archery is a support class. I try to hit as many targets as I can and wound them so when they encounter my teammates they'll die quicker. I don't necessarily want kills, I want my team to win so we can get the multiplier. 

Go for the stationary people who don't know you're aiming at them. Go for other ranged folks so they'll shoot at you rather than your team closing in on them.  Flank the sides to get those not looking in the back or turn the forward fire away from your team. The more you can divide their attention away from the more powerful melee teammates the more chance you have to win the round as they close in.

wait.... don't do any of that. Just stay in one spot and shoot towards spawn (if you're on the other team)
=]
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2011, 06:32:47 pm
Quote from: Tzar on May 16, 2011, 11:33:23 am
This should be my new sig  :wink:

This is whats wrong with every fuckin single archer out there their logic is flawed


Quote from: Gorath on May 16, 2011, 06:22:13 am
OH GOD FORBID THAT FIRING AN ATTACK FROM NIGH COMPLETE SAFETY AND IMMUNITY FROM COUNTERATTACK TAKES 2+ SHOTS TO KILL WITHOUT A HEADSHOT!!!!  THE TRAGEDY!!!!!

/capslock lulz


Damn, the single best quotation of Gorath ever :D

You, sir, were able to find the truth my quest was to search for months.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: karasu on May 16, 2011, 07:01:57 pm
Archery is supposed to be a support class, not a "pie cutter" as 2 handers or Pole(axers p.e.).

As such, according to the Scene specifications, and to the enemy team/friendly team setups, you make your own decisions and priorities for the team success.

If it's a map where cavalry is the main issue, you focus on clearing the cavalry as MAIN priority (not forgetting the enemy team ranged), even if it means negative K/D on the Egometers.

If focusing on the main threat from the other team, whom could be a major shielder tincan with 192308120938 IF, wasting 2 stacks on him, means that the team is going to have a lot of greater chances on winning, I do it, specially when I know nobody else cba to do it, too busy shooting peasants.

The team wins, you win as-well. Keep this in mind.


When I see a player with more than decent score on the egometers as archer, I tend to go spectate him(her) for a couple of rounds, and saddens me to see that they are simply aiming into the poor lowbies and low armored folks, instead of doing what they are supposed to. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, like the cases of Jambi, Stulle, Tenne, who are deadly on their job.

Golden rule: Be humble on your class role.

Protip: Always try to get +150 wpf in archery, a good archer knows where to hit, and when to, and needs this minimum points in accuracy in order to do it properly.


Cheers.

Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 16, 2011, 07:09:54 pm
My thoughts on this thread:
The day I can one-shot anyone who is a STR build or wearing anything but the lightest armour (If you have 27+ AGIL though I expect to blow your brains out) is the day I want a nerf to my main class.

I don't like Melee oneshotting people.
I don't like range one-shotting people.
The only reason why I am ok with cav one shotting is because their speed bonus is double edged and I can one shot them back with even a weak weapon.

Archery is not meant to be an end-all be all. It is a support class, as in you carry your team not lead it (Check out the "I'm your medic" song from Team Fortress 2 for inspiration).

My first Archery build (pre-patch) was the following: (Bodkins + Warbow)
(click to show/hide)
This build was ridiculously deadly in close range, and I was honestly the ultimate bait for cavalry and could one shot any of them better then any pikeman could ever dream of. Too slow, but I hit like a freight train and could drop just about anyone in two arrows besides the coat of plate and above, or STR build which required three. I never had to shoot anyone more then four times. Headshots are more dreams then reality and this build relied on bodyshots. It was specifically designed as an innacurate machine gun for ultimate suppresion fire that was designed to run with infantry and not snipe. It worked well. I would give it a solid 7/10 all things considered. My best score was 9/2 in battle. Average was a kill a round, sometimes less.

My second archery build (prepatch) was the following (warbow plus bodkins):
(click to show/hide)
Could do headshots, could run with the infantry and rarely fall behind, was rather deadly as one I already knew how to shoot and do offensive melee properly as well as solid battlefield awareness. This was perfect for horse hunting, and I could lay on the hurt on anyone regardless of armour. I had to three shot anyone above chain (besides this one AGIL build... not sure why he was wearing heavy armour anyways...), and I was pretty accurate at anything but long distance sniping of which I could hold my own if the target did not understand the concept of watching incoming arrows and dodging accordingly. My best score was 17/3 in battle. Average was 2 kills a round.

My current build (this patch) is this, using a warbow and standard arrows (the weakest kind).
(click to show/hide)
Now honestly, this is possibly my favorite build. What is sad is that this is actually optimized for a Stronbow build (of which you have) and not my warbow, but does just fine. My highest score was 21/2 in battle (with 218 ping mind you). I regularly am now netting 3 kills a round, and I mow through horses at a satisfying speed. I can two shot light armoured targets, score headshots with a bit of work (if the target is still and in medium range I usually get it reliably, if he is moving intelligently about one in 4 for me). Four arrows exactly are required to take out targets like BKS_Tyrian in his top end armour (that heraldric half plate or whatever it is).


End result: Archery is more then fine as it is. If I can do such things with my lackluster experience  compared to the veteran archers, then I am confident that with proper training you can more then hold your own in the battlefield.

Pre-patch and current patch you still see users with the strongbow top the scoreboards or approach it within the top 7.

Archers do not need to one-shot things. No class needs to one shot things. The wonderful thing about this game is that it tests skill, so I prefer to have range and melee alike have to work for kills and have to hit the target preferably 3 times (as that takes most of the luck out in my opinion, three hits suits my mentality for melee fights).

Of course, this is just my personal opinion...

TLDR Version
If you want to one-shot, shoot them in the head like every range cavalry or melee user does. Work for your kills and do not expect them to be handed to you on a silver platter. You are using a strongbow, thus you are an accuracy build. For heavy hitting use a longbow for tin cans or a warbow for sniping with HIGH powerdraw.

EDIT: Forgive my spelling but this was done on a mobile device. My apologies.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Bulzur on May 16, 2011, 07:44:42 pm
Excellent post from Tears_of_Destiny.
As an average and old archer, i have to agree.
Who cares about kill, don't you feel fantastic when you manage to shoot an ennemy polearm user duelling with one of your teammates, stunning him just long enough for that teammate to finish him off ? When you take down the fearsom horse of the braveless HA who was harassing your pikeman, protecting you from the cavs ? When you wound ennemy archers so much that you see them fleeing, moving sideways ? When you shoot an ennemy xbow reloading his arbalest just before he puts his bolt in ?
We already have a lot of pleasures, if not kills, and archery is really fine as it is. (except textures maybe :S )

PROTIP : New archer and archers with less than 140 wpf, don't try shooting in melee duels or gangs.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Hirlok on May 16, 2011, 08:09:50 pm
Tears: as usual everything said ;-)
+1

And regarding OP: short version - want to get kills - get a longbow and go for PD9. Helps.
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Murchad on May 16, 2011, 08:30:04 pm
i have tried many many archer builds everything from 9/30 to 27/12
my last gen i was 27/12 and it was great.
9pd
6ps
4ath
4wm
gear: masterwork strong, masterwork khergit arrows
Title: Re: So does archery ever get any better?
Post by: Mihilist on May 16, 2011, 08:32:56 pm
I have a hybrid build (and one that won't be nearly as noobed up as my current one once I retire) and really have no issue getting kills with bodkins.  You have to accept on some of the heavier armored opponents that you may only be getting the supporting shots on them in many cases, and sometimes you'll have a string where you're the one getting the killing shot on them.  That's how it seems to work for me anyways, and I'm not anything special.