cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Grumbs on December 26, 2013, 02:52:15 pm
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If HA/HX had to use lighter horses with less armour the game would be balanced better imo.
They would have more realistic counters. Ranged could shoot the horse, getting too close to infantry gets them dehorsed etc. And they would have to use their primary attack to deal damage
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Interesting, even though the upkeep already push most HA/HT/HX to go on light horses (thus quite cheaper), one could push it a foot farther.
But there is no "cant use bows on X horses" tag so how do you think your idea would work? Under what parameter?
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I don't think it's that much needed, a HA/HX on a slow horse is a vulnerable target to projectiles and overall vulnerable to melee cav if can't dodge their blows. Maybe that's how it is supposed to be but yeah I see what you mean, prpavi is very strong on his eastern warhorse; it's almost impossible to kill his horse via missiles.
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I usually see HA's on the high body armour horses myself and they can tank a lot of hits before they go down
Not sure how to do it from a coding perspective. Maybe each point of HA could reduce riding by 1 point
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Not sure how to do it from a coding perspective. Maybe each point of HA could reduce riding by 1 point
Without good riding, horse archery is plain useless actually. With 4 HA, you would get 4 riding while you invest 8 riding? Seems like a gamebreaking idea to me.
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Not sure how to do it from a coding perspective. Maybe each point of HA could reduce riding by 1 point
Each point of IF reduces STR by 3.
Each point of ATH reduces AGI by 3.
Each point of PS reduces STR and AGI by 3.
Let's nerf infantry first, then talk about Horse Archers. What kind of dumb suggestions are you even up to.
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Your suggestions make no sense. Reducing riding for HA's would effectively limit the type of horse they ride, which was my suggestion in the OP
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Each point of IF reduces STR by 3.
Each point of ATH reduces AGI by 3.
Each point of PS reduces STR and AGI by 3.
Let's nerf infantry first, then talk about Horse Archers. What kind of dumb suggestions are you even up to.
what the bullshit, did you just fart
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Miwiw was being ironic.
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Miwiw was being ironic.
Like rain on your wedding day?
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Like rain on your wedding day?
Haha I'd actually like rain on my wedding day, if I am ever going to wed. What do you mean?
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Some old song about irony that wasn't very ironic :D
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Heavy horses leave the cav far more vulnerable to decent cav and ranged, it however makes them way harder to kill for horrible players who can't aim worth a fuck and therefor have to target the horse, fair enough tradeoff imo, don't see why heavy horses should be disallowed, I'd far rather fight a HA/HX on a plated charger than an arab warhorse provided I had any form of ranged weaponry.
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I know I'd rather have my team shooting at 2 squishy targets than 1 small one. The slight speed difference isn't going to make as much difference as having a bigger target imo.
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I know I'd rather have my team shooting at 2 squishy targets than 1 small one. The slight speed difference isn't going to make as much difference as having a bigger target imo.
Either they'll be on coursers or arabs, if they're on coursers the speed difference is far from slight, if they're on arabs the maneuverability is a godsend, and allows for far better dodging than the heavier horsies.
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Their realistic counter is ranged, especially throwers. Especially shielder-throwers. Now if all the 2h heroes would actually take some form of ranged attack HA would never be a problem. If they want to spend their gold on a heavy horse, let them. They probably have low personal armor, and if they don't... let them. It's their gold.
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More ranged to counter HA's? Nah we just ranged to effectively counter them, not to have more
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Their realistic counter is ranged, especially throwers. Especially shielder-throwers. Now if all the 2h heroes would actually take some form of ranged attack HA would never be a problem. If they want to spend their gold on a heavy horse, let them. They probably have low personal armor, and if they don't... let them. It's their gold.
We don't fucking need more ranged shitbag
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why nobody makes such threads about horse throwers? they are much worse at this point , i say this as cavalry player.
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why nobody makes such threads about horse throwers? they are much worse at this point , i say this as cavalry player.
This is so damn right
Im also saying this as cav player, getting killed by a Horse thrower more than any other ranged
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why nobody makes such threads about horse throwers? they are much worse at this point , i say this as cavalry player.
Horsethrower is the class that excels at killing cavalry, and more importantly horseranged the most, it isn't all that great against footpeople though. Also just ride away from them and there is literally nothing they can do, ammo is to valueable to shoot your horse with negative speed bonus (a destrier running in the other direction can easily survive 4 throwing lances or several stacks of jars/spears).
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ITT Zlisch defeats Grumbs :!:
Also, this is jacked. From above the guy is spinning so as to hit Batman from above with his weapon, but when the camera switches to below, suddenly he is rotating the opposite way and hits Batman from below in the chin. L2Animate!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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visitors can't see pics , please register or login
where is that from? look spretty sexy
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We don't fucking need more ranged shitbag
So you want a counter to horse archers that isn't their natural counter? Do you want two handed swords to rear horses so you wont need spears anymore too?
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Actually, if horse ranged spends their gold on a heavy horse; it also makes them more vulnerable to melee cav in a way.
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So you want a counter to horse archers that isn't their natural counter? Do you want two handed swords to rear horses so you wont need spears anymore too?
Yeah nice bullshitty standard "oh lol 2h ez" strawman, shitbird.
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Actually, if horse ranged spends their gold on a heavy horse; it also makes them more vulnerable to melee cav in a way.
The problem with that theory, is that most light/fast melee cav doesnt naturally go toward horse ranged... BECAUSE horse ranged are the best anti-cav class. Thus even if you're a horse ranged and you're using a heavy horse to fend off your other natural counter (archers that doesnt know how to headshot a moving target at 50m :P), you're not likely to get hunted by the fast enough melee cav/lancers. Except if they are good, the horse ranged are out of ammo or they are suicidal and lucky to get a hit.
Playing on my cavalry alt, I know that if I see Zlisch/Torost/Hate_More from too close on any map, I'm going down even though I use a War Horse +3. There is only a few windows of opportunities against such persons, namely surprise attacks and betting on their innacuracy (not very effective).
HA's have less damage power but are able to spam more, thus if they know how to aim while riding and you dont have an omni-shield to protect both you and your horse, you're going down too.
Thus the only natural class able to kill horse ranged efficiently ARE other horse ranged (pointless to say that) ranged footman. Problem is, most of them prefer easier targets and aim other ranged footman, melee footman most of the time.
And even if they aim for Horse Ranged (sometimes they play smart), if they are using heavy horse you will need arbalest to dismount them :P or accurate aiming of the rider (it happens too).
But frankly, with the current state of the upkeep system, one should not add nerf on classes which are losing money on a steady basis. And Horse Ranged are one of the worst class to upkeep, close to Ultra Heavy Ranged/Melee/Shielder/Lancer Ultra Heavy Cavalry (grellenort and mircan :lol:)
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The problem with that theory, is that most light/fast melee cav doesnt naturally go toward horse ranged... BECAUSE horse ranged are the best anti-cav class. Thus even if you're a horse ranged and you're using a heavy horse to fend off your other natural counter (archers that doesnt know how to headshot a moving target at 50m :P), you're not likely to get hunted by the fast enough melee cav/lancers. Except if they are good, the horse ranged are out of ammo or they are suicidal and lucky to get a hit.
Playing on my cavalry alt, I know that if I see Zlisch/Torost/Hate_More from too close on any map, I'm going down even though I use a War Horse +3. There is only a few windows of opportunities against such persons, namely surprise attacks and betting on their innacuracy (not very effective).
HA's have less damage power but are able to spam more, thus if they know how to aim while riding and you dont have an omni-shield to protect both you and your horse, you're going down too.
Thus the only natural class able to kill horse ranged efficiently ARE other horse ranged (pointless to say that) ranged footman. Problem is, most of them prefer easier targets and aim other ranged footman, melee footman most of the time.
And even if they aim for Horse Ranged (sometimes they play smart), if they are using heavy horse you will need arbalest to dismount them :P or accurate aiming of the rider (it happens too).
But frankly, with the current state of the upkeep system, one should not add nerf on classes which are losing money on a steady basis. And Horse Ranged are one of the worst class to upkeep, close to Ultra Heavy Ranged/Melee/Shielder/Lancer Ultra Heavy Cavalry (grellenort and mircan :lol:)
Yeah that's also a problem. For taking up the punishment while chasing a HA, you also need a heavy horse as a cavalry; which fairly counters it's speed advantage most of the time :lol:
The thing I remember is, I remember practicing with GK_Spjut in EU3 server. I was riding a mamluk horse back then (Taking up like 20+ arrows) and I could only win if HA would make a mistake, but over time I somehow learned how to make the HA mistake. It was still not a fair game but it increased my chances of winning. Spjut gave me a bit of advice to use the terrain to my advantage, when climbing over cliffs HA was incredibly invulnerable. It is technically not 100% fair, but it is more to being fair in practice. In some maps, you can chase HA to make them a mistake; after all they are human and they tend to get demoralized a bit after they spend 40 arrows on someone only to seeing not doing some damage at all (shield and horse absorbs most of the arrows, and HA misses sometimes too). Least to say, their ammo is not unlimited too.
I honestly don't think HA is a very strong class at the moment. Sure, they are the most mobile but at the same moment they also do the lowest damage; most of the time they're not even a problem. For those a few that are a big problem, you just need to stick with your teammates as they, HA usually tries to avoid enemy foot ranged. Countering them is somehow is to not really care about them, and destroying the other team before HA. I am in no authority to say everything in this game is 100% balanced, but that's what I do most of the time and it helps most of the time.
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If you are cavalry or a Rambo, HA's will hunt you down. Stick with your foot archers and throwers and pikes and HA's will find the latter targets.
"Oh so the counter to ranged cavalry is more ranged"
Yes, it is. They ARE part of this game, so learn to play with those on your team, you know, actually playing AS a team and you won't have this problem. So you want to be Rambo? Deal with it.
Upkeep prevents me from using the heavy cavalry for more than an an hour or so before I need to switch back to the cheaper Desert to earn gold faster, or the Arabian to break even/get a very small amount of gold over time. When I use the Arabian consistently, it will be days before I can run with the heavy cavalry for an hour again. Which is how it should be.
This suggestion is butthurt.
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Yeah pappy's a bastard, I swear when he knows I'm online he is scanning across the battlefield to our spawn and seeing which way I go on my horse. He (and other HA's) make the cavalry who want to go flying across the map (leaving their footmen behind) pay the price. Melee cavalry is most effective when supporting your own footmen. But I still get A.D.D. and try to pick off some stragglers before coming back and helping our footmen (aka there's some down time before the infantry hordes clash).
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Yeah pappy's a bastard, I swear when he knows I'm online he is scanning across the battlefield to our spawn and seeing which way I go on my horse. He (and other HA's) make the cavalry who want to go flying across the map (leaving their footmen behind) pay the price. Melee cavalry is most effective when supporting your own footmen. But I still get A.D.D. and try to pick off some stragglers before coming back and helping our footmen (aka there's some down time before the infantry hordes clash).
That's because I do :lol: