cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Sniger on December 22, 2013, 03:14:12 pm

Title: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 22, 2013, 03:14:12 pm
• Some kind of balance

I'm not a game dev so my suggestion is not exactly concrete but is it difficult to make some kind of balance that divides the players in 50/50 shield, 50/50 range, 50/50 cav, 50/50 2h, 50/50 pole and maybe something like 50/50 lvl. 32+ or something similar to this?

Its not possible to maintain good balance if you have banner-balance where everyone gets on the same team despite their class & level. I am not a game developer but I do know that good balance is every FPS creators holy grail and it shouldn't be tampered with.

Just my 25øre. (danish 5cent :) )

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Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 22, 2013, 06:21:23 pm
It's an ancient debate, but I really think we have an issue, because only very few retarded gamers like us, cba to play games when they are like this, then most gamers rather play something else. When theres no eye-candy, there is only gameplay to rely on. Gameplay is born from balance :)
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Viriathus on December 22, 2013, 08:47:35 pm
GO TEMPLARS WHOOO WHOOO!
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 23, 2013, 05:48:08 pm
Is it difficult? I suppose it would "only" need to use the WPF and skill sheet from the player and that's it, the dividing shouldn't be hard to code I reckon, but im a noob so I don't know, but I think it would be great for the FFA servers. It would generate more new players! I have many both RL and online friends who all tried cRPG but they quit because they think its unfair and I don't know what to tell them. Yes, its bloody unfair gameplay, I cant tell them otherwise. I usally tell them that its just the start, once they get the hang of it they will enjoy it. But they all gave up. They are not Facebook gamers, they are experienced gamers who play several PC games on a daily basis. Hehe, one of them play Kerbal Space Program atm. talk about nerd. :)
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 24, 2013, 02:43:11 pm
All too often, every day I play, we are getting to 100ish players total (maybe rather 70-80 on a good day) and then all of a sudden: Overload of one or maybe even two classes, stacked up on one team, completely creaming the other team. Usually range-fest or cav-fest depending on the map. 5mins & 3 rounds later the player amount is cut to half.

Even now when we have DoubleUpOnTheGodDamnXp® we are happy if we get 100 players total! Something needs to be done, its not because people play other games, there is no other games that will give you what cRPG gives you. If we had some even fairplay on FFA servers, we would have more players. Face it pl0x :)
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 24, 2013, 03:44:05 pm
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Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 27, 2013, 12:24:38 pm
mod:

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Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 27, 2013, 03:06:05 pm
4-0®

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some ppl think "fuck yeah" but they just fail to see what its really doing to the game / they couldn't care less, as long as they get their epeen.

the balance is a lie. there is no balance.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 29, 2013, 01:27:23 pm
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/wtf-is-up-with-the-shooting-through-shield/
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 29, 2013, 09:07:40 pm
Swaggart superior rhetoric

Quote from: Swaggart on December 29, 2013, 07:41:41 pm
What?

Of course the game should be fair. It's easy for us who have accumulated looms and levels and the hours required to develop a basic skill set to say this pile of crap, but this kind of attitude will drive away anyone who isn't heavily invested into this mod. When these heavily invested people begin leaving due to whatever reason, the population declines without anyone new to fill their place. Being "more powerful than others" should come as a result of skill, not given due to game mechanics.

With that said, XP isn't the only problem. Banner balance, as much as I love to be on the good end of it, is a team balance wrecking cancer.

ive copied all to my notepad. its the greatest words ive read on crpg forum I think since I joined. crpg bullseye comment.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 29, 2013, 11:15:33 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teamwork

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=premade

huge difference.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 31, 2013, 12:27:16 pm
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Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Utrakil on December 31, 2013, 05:16:16 pm
You really don't mind talking to yourselve, do you?
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on December 31, 2013, 11:56:37 pm
you can mute me then you wont see anything
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 08, 2014, 02:17:00 pm
*cough*
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 08, 2014, 03:29:43 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA WILL YOU BELIEVE THIS BULLSHIT?! I JOIN THE FUCKING EU1 AND THEN I QUIT 5 MINS LATER, OMFG GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK! RIDICILOUS!

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ONLY RETARDED ABUSIVE PRE-TEEN MINDSETS CBA TO PLAY THIS SHIT BECAUSE THEY BENEFIT FROM IT. WHEN THEY DO NOT STACK, THEY DO NOT PLAY, WHEN THEY STACK, OTHERS LEAVE. REASON FOR LOW POP. GET IT PLEASE!

½ year ago I had 2 games installed. warband crpg was one of them. today I have 7 games installed and I consider uninstalling warband to make room for ESO beta lol
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 09, 2014, 06:42:40 pm
its amazing really. I thought lets give it a shot. I launched crpg. played for 3 rounds and then I quit again.

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Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Angantyr on January 09, 2014, 07:41:44 pm
Team unbalance is an issue, class balance certainly, but it probably adds more variety that on one map one side has most cav and ranged and on another the other team has more ranged etc. instead of it being rigidly enforced by mechanics. If your team loses 4-0 on one map it's really not much fun but the deck of cards is shuffled again on new map start.

Though arguably it would be more fair and interesting if the system could make it less random.

Concerning clan stacks I see few genuine clan stacks in all the pics here, and maybe some class balance issues. Mostly it's just one side defeating the other due to one having less team work/blob and perhaps more noobs. And yes, probably some class balance issues, but I still see maps decided by which team blobs the more effectively most of the time, or rather lost by the team that splits up most ineffectively. Which I'm not sure is fixable.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 09, 2014, 08:52:59 pm
Both teams should have equally amount of each class and level or as close as it can get. everything else is stupid, silly and unfair. I doubt we will see same kind of blobbing rampage with that setup.

If you win now you cant really be proud about it. Its empty. The fights are just boring slaughter / getting slaughtered.

Yes I want it rigidly enforced by mechanics just in every other team vs. team game. Sure, I suppose we will get mostly equal fights 3-4 map, but I don't see anything wrong with that. Its the equal hard fights that fun. Of course, no one will get x5 unless they really do well. That's good for the individual, bad for the masses. The way we gain XP and gold should be changed. However, we should play because we think its fun to play, not because we need XP.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 10, 2014, 01:16:28 pm
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 12, 2014, 10:58:49 pm
I have about 10 screenshots of 4-0 or 4-1 maps but I cba to share them, I think you got the point by now.

if I played 10 hours a day, 3-4 times with a 4-0 map wouldn't be much but I do NOT play much, I play like an hour a day atm.

the balance is seriously an issue, it doesn't encourage people to stay very much :(
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Kafein on January 13, 2014, 12:41:06 am
This has it all : worst title ever, worst content ever, worst OP ever, worst bumping streak ever. That's a little bit better than what Sniger got us used to though.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 13, 2014, 02:59:07 pm
idc :)

especially not what you think, I think you are the most retarded admin they have :) but oh well opinions, they are pointless online :)

edit: lol you not even admin, still rubbing eyes just woke up
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Pollux on January 13, 2014, 09:38:07 pm
it sucks when one team has all of the archers AND all of the cav
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 14, 2014, 05:50:49 pm
indeed. but majority seem to want it like this (I guess cus they benefit from stacking themselves) / its designed to be like this. I just think the mod should be called "battle of the clans" or something like that instead.

edit: cRPG = Combat RolePlaying Game right? pls correct if wrong I honestly don't know, just guessing here never really thought about it lol

theres no combat in one team annihilating the other 4 rounds in row :) just saying :)

also, balance seems to be better when total player amount reach the 80-100+. could be that balancer isn't really designed to balance the small 40-50 players the same way as its balancing the higher amount of players or its just harder due to the current rules.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 09:07:43 pm
You're beating a dead horse, people like uneven stacks in crpg, they just hope they'll be on the winning team to enjoy the sweet xp and gold that comes with having x5.  It's been brought up lots of times in the past, and the overwhelming majority of people who gave their opinion, were in favor of uneven teams. 

crpg is the only game I know that has a balance system that encourages "pub stomps".  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pubstomp

They very easily could allow people of the same banner to be on the same team, and still have relatively balanced teams (in respects to player skill, i.e. K:D and score balance; as well as a semblance of class balance). 
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: zagibu on January 15, 2014, 09:16:07 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 09:07:43 pm
They very easily could allow people of the same banner to be on the same team, and still have relatively balanced teams (in respects to player skill, i.e. K:D and score balance; as well as a semblance of class balance).

So, basically, you want to solve a harder knapsack problem, with additional constraints (banner balance). Good luck with designing an algorithm that can do that for a large number of players and produce reliable results in a short amount of time.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 09:43:50 pm
Yeah I hate programming and scripting in general.  However it seems like a pretty simple logical solution, try to balance by skill (aka either score, or K:D and go back either 1 round, 5 rounds, 1 map, 5 maps, 1 day, 5 days, lifetime, etc..you choose), then try to balance by class (doesn't need to be 50:50, would be better if it was in the area of 30:70 or more balanced), and then put people on same banner on same team if it doesn't interrupt the previous two conditions.

I'm guessing 90% of the time people of the same banner would still be on the same team. 

I'm not saying I have the solution, but I certainly recognize an issue that has existed for a long time.  Teams have always had a problem being balanced even close to equally (in relation to both skill and class balance). 
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: zagibu on January 15, 2014, 10:09:53 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 09:43:50 pm
I'm guessing 90% of the time people of the same banner would still be on the same team. 

You guess wrong.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Tovi on January 15, 2014, 10:37:03 pm
Too much balance = no multiplier
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 10:57:05 pm
Quote from: Tovi on January 15, 2014, 10:37:03 pm
Too much balance = no multiplier

And that's why nothing was ever done to make a better team balance system.  There's no push for it from the players (because balanced teams mean no more riding x5 for hours) and it means more work from the devs to come up with a better balance system (and possibly a better xp/gold gain system). 

From a strictly gameplay perspective (not from a "I want to reach the next level and have as much money as possible" level) balanced teams are going to bring the most enjoyment to people playing.  That is, if the measure enjoyment out of having tough fought battles that force people to put everything they can into winning the round.  If enjoyment is measured in how much xp or gold you make in an hour, then it would likely decrease people's enjoyment.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: San on January 15, 2014, 11:07:04 pm
Even when teams are "balanced," one team may consistently win due to player choice, strategy, class composition, and spawn differences. It'll be incredibly difficult to ensure equal balance based on teams' winning percentage. I think it should stop egregious amounts of ranged cav, melee cav, and ranged on a single team at least. Melee can generally counter each other based on equipment choice.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 11:09:26 pm
Quote from: San on January 15, 2014, 11:07:04 pm
Even when teams are "balanced," one team may consistently win due to player choice, strategy, class composition, and spawn differences. It'll be incredibly difficult to ensure equal balance based on teams' winning percentage. I think it should stop egregious amounts of ranged cav, melee cav, and ranged on a single team at least. Melee can generally counter each other based on equipment choice.

Yeah that's a good point.  And I don't think teams should be balanced based on what the team's round score is.  And that's why I don't think they should balance by skill in the short term (i.e. this maps player scores), if they want to balance by player skill (which is optional, class balance would be preferred if anything) they should balance it based on the longer term so people are switching constantly between rounds and trying to make the team scores completely even.   
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 15, 2014, 11:51:48 pm
who am i to judge "skill"? and can a computer game that is build by humans with rules made by humans judge "skill"? why have it in the equation? why not just check char sheet, 50/50 divide players with for example more than 2-3 points in shield, riding and powerdraw? highlevel (32+) is divided 50/50 also but regardless of class. what's wrong in this?

(all this just an example to explain what I mean)

also I think banner balance feature is for strat and not FFA servers. FFA servers should have team balance and not a frikkin clanstack balance,

WELCOME TO CRPG POOR MISS RANDOM!
miss random: "but but *sadface* this is unfair! *sadface*
crpg: "but that's how the game is. you are sparring tool for the clans."
miss random: "*sadface*"

everyone in the community (clans/forum) is just against changing it, because everyone in the community is using it. they know that, as Tovi says, good balance means less XP. and that's what this community seems to be playing for, XP. not the good hard fights. shame.  :|
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 18, 2014, 01:43:59 am
... and the reason why it haven't been brought up much (not at all? to my very limited knowledge) is also because community is against it, despite the fact that if the mod wasn't kept artificially alive with doublexpee it would slowly die, not because it isn't fun as such, its the best WHEN its fun, but its just too unbalanced and unfair and well basically not worth the time and effort compared to the LOADS of other games we have in our arsenals. old vets leaving while no new players arrive/new players quit as fast as they begin. you really think your current mod is so awesome that normal people (and not retarded crpg gamers like us :D ) choose to play crpg above all the other games out there? if we had some kind of balance (ish, better than atm.) more people would play.

all I want is 200+ players *sadface*
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: zagibu on January 18, 2014, 01:46:21 am
All games that pitch coordinated teams against randomers are unbalanced.
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 18, 2014, 01:47:50 am
Quote from: zagibu on January 18, 2014, 01:46:21 am
All games that pitch coordinated teams against randomers are unbalanced.

what other games "pitch coordinated teams against randoms?"  :lol: I cant really think of any but do tell! I just cant really see any real profit in it  :lol:

and take a min. and think about it... wtf? lol is this really the purpose and point with crp-fucking-g?
Title: Re: Suggestion
Post by: Sniger on January 18, 2014, 01:53:21 am
CRPG IS A MOD THAT PITCH COORDINATED TEAMS AGAINST RANDOMERS!

ah ok, then I know why we have this low population. think ill quit and let the epeen whores play their epeen-designed mod.

gj.