cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Baskakov_Dima on December 13, 2013, 12:36:51 pm

Title: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Baskakov_Dima on December 13, 2013, 12:36:51 pm
How to balance the game

Short version

Instead of nerfing anyone in purpose of class balancing, balance teams, that is much easier, giving equally strong warriors to each. Analyze win/loss stats of classes to find points and amounts for nerf/boosting.

INTRODUCTION

I have some ideas that I want to suggest about balancing the game. First part does not connect changing the numbers, neither nerfing nor boosting. It is a suggestion about balancing teams, that is much more important, than trying to balance only classes. Second part is a suggestion for choosing classes to either nerf or boost, and amounts of changes. I took the ideas from World Of Tanks game — I don't think, that it is a perfect game, but it is a masterpiece of balance, and I bring here it's balancing ideas, tested and polished by Wargaming.net.

THE RULES OF BALANCING TEAMS

By this concept, players lose the ability of choosing teams. If they want to play with their friends, they have to play in squad (watch the targeted paragraph), but they will still have to face equal enemy.

First part of balance is classes balance. All people are automatically classified based on class requirements table as one of the classes, that is shown in the character main screen while developing it or giving weapons.

Not exact list of classes and requirements is (Main skill is the most developed skill, or one of the most developed, if there are two or more equally developed skills. It is only counted if developed on 100+ level.):

1) Missile Cavalry. Has 100+ prof. in one of the ranged weapons, riding skill 2+, has a horse, has ranged weapon and ammo stack.
2) Cavalry. Has a horse, 2+ riding skill, 100+ in one of the profs.
3) Hoplite. Polearms 100+ and shield skill 2+.
4) Shielder. Polearms 99- and shield skill 2+.
5) Two-hander. Two-handed is main skill.
6) Polearmer. Polearms is main skill.
7) One-hander. One-handed is main skill. (3-7 probably could be counted together while balancing)
8) Thrower. Has at least 2 throwing weapons, Throwing is main skill.
9) Ranged (probably distinguish archers and crossbowmen). Archery or Crossbows as main skill.
10) Peasant. (all profs below 100) (something like 18- level players)
11)



Player is not allowed to take his place in a team if he:

1) Has unspent attribute points
2) Has 3+ unspent skill points
3) Has more than 30 weapon points unspent (Cases 1-3 open developing screen)
4) Has no weapon of his main skill
5) Has ranged weapons and no ammo for them
6) Has horse, but no weapon usable on horseback (and reloadable if it is crossbow, no spawning with arbalest, 3 stacks of bolts and a horse)
7) Has items equipped, that he is not allowed to use. (Cases 4-7 open inventory screen)
8) Has damaged items (Player gets suggestion to repair them or leave server)

Each team must normally have equal amount of members of each class with a difference of no more than 1, except squads issues. Class is divided in 2 teams based on leveling.


Second part of balance is leveling. As there are normally a lot of characters on battle servers, it seems to be possible to keep equal leveling for both teams. Leveling is balanced for classes individually, not for the whole team.
System tries to make mirror-leveled teams, like balancing 30 and 29 lvl archers by 30 and 29, but if impossible, it tries to find solutions like balancing 28 and 30 lvl archers by 29 and 29. Total amount of levels must have as low difference, as possible.

So, if there are 180 players, and one team has 25 archers, other can't have 23 or 27, and their levels are balanced.
If there are 20 peasants on the battlefield, they are not just gathered in one team, giving other team more powerful players.

The only exception are skipped the fun players. They are also divided in classes, but one STF player can only be balanced by an other STF player.
Etc.

Squad is a special ability for clans or friends to play together. One player creates a squad, and sends his friends invitations. They either accept or not accept. They can only do that if they play on the same server. Squad gets a benefit of not being dividing while balanced. The maximum amount of players in squad must be tested, I am not sure how to calculate it, but it should be like not more than 20% of total amount of people in the team (3 players from 15-player team in WoT without breaking the balance).

NERFS AND BUFFS CALCULATION

Each battle result and participants' list must be stored (for a long time, at least 3 months) in a special log file, and then analyzed. How?

At first — percentage of victories of players is watched. 99,99% of battles end with one team losing and other winning, so if player has 50% victories, he is an average player. If something like 38%, he is a total noob. If it is 55%, he is a very good player. If 99%, he is a cheater, lol, playing in squad with cheaters.

Player's stats are shown on his web-page, accessible from c-rpg.net for anyone, who knows character's name, and could be seen for each character specifically, or for all of them together. The only thing is, player can watch his stats for any period — forever, for last week, month, year, specific period, but others can only access other user's stats for the last month. Percentage is shown storing 5 decimal places. Stats include: victouries/losses amounts and percentages, kills/deaths amount and ratio, damaged done/taken amount and ratio, and class with changes.

We can watch class-specific percentage. For example, we see, that archers have 53% of victories with a standard deviation of 1,5%, we can get, that archers really rule the game. But if we see, that polearmers have 45% of victories — it is not the point to boost them. It is a point to calculate SD, that can be like 10%, and saying, that there is too big range of skill in that class.

Then, damage must be calculated — attack- and class-specific. For example, we calculate damage and see, that archers really do 85% of all damage done on the battlefield, and mostly on body-shot, in melee damage is done usually using «lolstab» of one-handed weapons. Or, for example, that ranged classes do 30% of hits (that annoy players), but like 10% of damage, and other 90% is done in melee.

I think, then the balance will really be balanced, if you see what do I mean.

This suggestion is not a finished instruction, as I am neither able nor permited to do so, it is just a bundle of ideas, that are good from my point of view. Here are the general ideas, even thought the amount of text is pretty big.

P. S. For all whiners, who ask to nerf/boost because their counter-classes annoy them, I attach a picture, where ZOMFG ARCHERS RULE THE LOL MAP RANGED OP LOLZ!!!!!!!11
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Ronin on December 13, 2013, 12:52:39 pm
Deserves a read. Although a few points:

Quote
8) Thrower. Has at least 2 throwing weapons, Throwing is main skill.

WPf split might be different for throwers. Melee wpf might be more than throwing wpf, even if the character is exclusively built as a thrower/infantry. I think it is simply safe to check for power throw skill, that if it's higher than 3 or so.
Besides just add a short summary for people who doesn't like to read. Something like:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Baskakov_Dima on December 13, 2013, 03:11:12 pm
Quote from: Ronin on December 13, 2013, 12:52:39 pm
Deserves a read. Although a few points:

WPf split might be different for throwers. Melee wpf might be more than throwing wpf, even if the character is exclusively built as a thrower/infantry. I think it is simply safe to check for power throw skill, that if it's higher than 3 or so.
Besides just add a short summary for people who doesn't like to read. Something like:

(click to show/hide)

Will do that today. :)
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Baskakov_Dima on December 16, 2013, 10:14:03 pm
Added short version
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: stante on December 16, 2013, 10:22:40 pm
Quote from: Baskakov_Dima on December 13, 2013, 12:36:51 pm

Player is not allowed to take his place in a team if he:

1) Has unspent attribute points
2) Has 3+ unspent skill points
3) Has more than 30 weapon points unspent (Cases 1-3 open developing screen)
4) Has no weapon of his main skill
5) Has ranged weapons and no ammo for them
6) Has horse, but no weapon usable on horseback (and reloadable if it is crossbow, no spawning with arbalest, 3 stacks of bolts and a horse)
7) Has items equipped, that he is not allowed to use. (Cases 4-7 open inventory screen)
8) Has damaged items (Player gets suggestion to repair them or leave server)


WAT, if I didnt get that wrong you are forcing people to use their SP or WPF but we people might be planning to use them in next levels etc
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Baskakov_Dima on December 17, 2013, 01:36:50 am
Quote from: stante on December 16, 2013, 10:22:40 pm
WAT, if I didnt get that wrong you are forcing people to use their SP or WPF but we people might be planning to use them in next levels etc

Oh, you think you  can need more for next level? If you have more SP, trade them to attribute.

What for do you need to store WPF? Leeching?
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Baskakov_Dima on April 21, 2014, 02:05:28 pm
I will boost this topic, it is probably still worth implementing.

BTW, it can be done in a specific mode called like "balanced battle".
Title: Re: Team balance in cRPG battles. Long text!
Post by: Thryn on April 23, 2014, 06:59:32 pm
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/proposed-change-to-team-balance-algorithim/